APCW Reports: Gambling Wages Interview

[bryand]

I find it a little unsettling that more people haven't commented on this thread, especially since there are probably a lot of people who visit here quite often who have been burnt by this branch of casino's. Kinda bewildering don't you think? People may think that it doesn't effect them because the video is aimed at affiliates.........but that isn't necessarily so. Can a leopard change their stripes?

Seems no one wanted to comment here either.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...weekly-08-08-08-breaking-industry-news.26185/

 

[theAPCW]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. This is exactly what I wanted to see. Let's get every old question and concern out into the light because I will bring each concern, gripe, bitch, payment issue, and rip-off accusation to them personally.

Anyone in this industry who has known me for a while knows that (as a webmaster) my former posting name was "Integrity", and that the title fits. I understand the anger and the lashing out in this thread --- I actually expected it to be far worse than it is --- but APCW has grown into this type of liaison/consumer-protection organization in the post-UIGEA era of the industry.

...I don't care how much money they offered me (I guess they made you an offer you couldn't refuse?), I wouldn't take them as a client in a million years.

That's what the old GPWA would have done, too... but we try to be different. First of all, the miniscule amount they pay for membership with us is the same as any other member and not a penny more. Second, we deliberatly keep our fees low so that no one client ever becomes too important to us. And third, if and/or when it becomes evident that the APCW/client relationship with Gambling Wages needs to be terminated we can do so without it affecting our operations.

I suppose the one thing I want you guys to realize is that the APCW is not simply going to market for Gambling Wages blindly. Did you watch the interview? We rightfully stated that it was a good thing they contacted us and openned their doors, but it was not an endorsement of their past. We asked them point blank about their past issues and slow payments... we stated that we didn't expect you guys to take them at face value... We aked everyone to contact us or Gambling Wages with issues and problems... and we told you we were going back to Costa Rica in a month or so to continue to work on these issues.

Bottom line is this: If they can change, great. It has to start somewhere, so let's see if this is it. If they can get their stuff together and the APCW can help get some people paid, that's wonderful. If not, then the we will tell you all the truth and be done with them... period. There is no amount of money that would change that.

To that end, we're making notes on every question and concern you are posting here (Virtual connections; ownership; Warren Cloud; $50k owed). It's not my position to answer most of these (it would be speculative), but I will sure as hell bring them to Gambling Wages. So please, do not hesitate to contact me, our Auditor, or Gambling Wages with more questions or past issues.

The truth is we're simply trying to do the best we can with a very volital situation. We may not recover every penny that's owed to players by having this open dialogue with Gambling Wages. But I guarantee you we will never recover anything if we don't talk to them.

I have ethics when it comes to this, and two words sum it up quite well: "Sell out."

You may believe whatever you wish. We all know that Bryan is watching this thread, and if he thought we were selling out for these guys I believe he would say so and shut this down. If he's willing to listen and watch and see what happens, maybe you should too.

Thanks... we are on your side. Hopefully you will see that eventually.

 

[lots0]

We all know that Bryan is watching this thread, and if he thought we were selling out for these guys I believe he would say so and shut this down. If he's willing to listen and watch and see what happens, maybe you should too.

Bryan is not around right now, he is taking care of personal business.

 

[winbig]

We'll see, but I'll bet the house that nobody from CM will give Virtual another chance. They've burned their bridges here. You can thank Danny for that.

 

[bryand]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. This is exactly what I wanted to see. Let's get every old question and concern out into the light because I will bring each concern, gripe, bitch, payment issue, and rip-off accusation to them personally

I would appreciate your relaying to them that spam phone calls after repeated requests to stop is not helping their case.

 

[theAPCW]

...I'll bet the house that nobody from CM will give Virtual another chance. They've burned their bridges here. You can thank Danny for that.

You know what, Win Big? I think it's perfectly OK and understandable to feel that way. Some people will need to see some tangible evidence, and we hope to provide you with that.

We dealt with Danny (Virtual Danny) at other casinos and actually recovered over $1,000 in players money back in June of last year. We found him to be a real &#$@*&^% to deal with, but eventually got the cash.

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I would appreciate your relaying to them that spam phone calls after repeated requests to stop is not helping their case.

I most certainly will. Do you have a phone number or a name associated with the calls? Many sites use agencies to make follow-up calls as well as get feedback and solicit. If you have any info on the caller that would help =0)


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Bryan is not around right now, he is taking care of personal business.

Oh, ok... thanks for the info. When he returns I respect his opinions and welcome his input on this issue. I am pretty certain that he has little or no interest in a dialouge with this group. But I am also certain he may have a few good questions for them! =0)

I consider Bryan a friend of the industry , a friend of the APCW, and a friend to me personally. We've helped one another many times in the past and always catch up at conferences. I look forward to hearing from him on this.

 

[bryand]

The phone calls come from different toll-free numbers. "This is Christopher DiAngelo with [insert virtual name] and I wanted you to know about our signature promotion....blah, blah, blah"

 

[suzecat]

The phone calls come from different toll-free numbers. "This is Christopher DiAngelo with [insert virtual name] and I wanted you to know about our signature promotion....blah, blah, blah"

Ditto, Ditto, and Ditto................

 

[theAPCW]

OK, so I am assuming these are pre-recorded messages set on an auto-dialer?

If so, that would really tick me off as well...

 

[bryand]

OK, so I am assuming these are pre-recorded messages set on an auto-dialer?

If so, that would really tick me off as well...

Yes and yes.

 

[bb28]

The phone calls come from different toll-free numbers. "This is Christopher DiAngelo with [insert virtual name] and I wanted you to know about our signature promotion....blah, blah, blah"

I'm sooo glad you brought that up.......I mentioned it on another forum. Those phone calls.........really, really gripe my a&*! And you can bet they are still doing it.........I got one this past weekend and it's been a long, long time since I played there. Not only that.........I've emailed and asked them to stop with no success........I even called and was very rudely hung up about 2 months ago. Spam is bad enough but a phone call..........very intrusive and I've NEVER had any other casino phone me other than this group.
Also.......the new Gambling Wages rep over at CAP talked about how they phone their players to try to keep them happy........what a load of BS!!!! This post was in the last few days. Here is the direct quote. "Players here are taken care of extremely well. We have a department for player retention that takes care of calling all of our customers and making sure that they are happy and offer them incentives."

 

[suzecat]

I'm sooo glad you brought that up.......I mentioned it on another forum. Those phone calls.........really, really gripe my a&*! And you can bet they are still doing it.........I got one this past weekend and it's been a long, long time since I played there. Not only that.........I've emailed and asked them to stop with no success........I even called and was very rudely hung up about 2 months ago. Spam is bad enough but a phone call..........very intrusive and I've NEVER had any other casino phone me other than this group.
Also.......the new Gambling Wages rep over at CAP talked about how they phone their players to try to keep them happy........what a load of BS!!!! This post was in the last few days. Here is the direct quote. "Players here are taken care of extremely well. We have a department for player retention that takes care of calling all of our customers and making sure that they are happy and offer them incentives."

*cough* BS *cough* How does a PRE-RECORDED message ascertain that a freakin player is happy???

 

[suzecat]

I consider Bryan a friend of the industry , a friend of the APCW, and a friend to me personally. We've helped one another many times in the past and always catch up at conferences. I look forward to hearing from him on this.

I can't recall seeing a "full frontal" of CM's face.................always thought he preferred the "Wilson" method.....

 

[theAPCW]

I can't recall seeing a "full frontal" of CM's face.................always thought he preferred the "Wilson" method.....

Hmmm... maybe I should take that down? I thought it would be ok to post it since it's been published on CAP sites, and I thought he was doing video now?

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Part of Gambling Wages problem (I believe) is what I saw when I was down there. They truly believe they are trying to doing things the right way when they call players up. They admit that they've never had a REAL Public Relations person. There's no doubt a lot of work to be done here.

 

[suzecat]

Hmmm... maybe I should take that down? I thought it would be ok to post it since it's been published on CAP sites, and I thought he was doing video now?

Haven't seen a video webcast yet that had Bryan's pic (for more than a hundredth of a second). Due to family matters Bryan has been gone for awhile and so may not be working on forum stuff (due to time constraints). As far as CAP, the affiliates who attend no doubt know what Bryan looks like so posting it on CAP seems to make sense. Just saying that has not been Bryan's usual MO here at the forum.

 

[swampwitch]

The video is not journalism.
There is no real fact finding.
There is no one to take the side of the player.
There is only one "perspective".

This is a money making promotion, plain and simple....for the APCW, and for Gambling Wages.

This is, in short, an infomercial...an infomercial that is using Casinomeister as free advertising. The use of Bryan's image in the thread is almost sickeningly self-serving, and infers that Bryan, in campaign parlance, "approves of this message".

Best friends forever or not, the classy thing to do would have been to wait until Bryan returned, and then ask him whether he wanted the link and picture posted.

 

[winbig]

You know what, Win Big? I think it's perfectly OK and understandable to feel that way. Some people will need to see some tangible evidence, and we hope to provide you with that.

We dealt with Danny (Virtual Danny) at other casinos and actually recovered over $1,000 in players money back in June of last year. We found him to be a real &#$@*&^% to deal with, but eventually got the cash.

Honestly, take a look at it from his point of view..

If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you want to pay out $1,000 to get $100,000 in additional revenue from those players that saw that someone got paid and give them another chance? I sure would.

Call my cynical if you wish, but there has been countless reports of a few (less than a handful) players that would be paid by Virtual, then come here to the forum and praise them to high heaven. For a blackhat operation, this was an excellent marketing ploy on their part. The few people they did pay were simply pawns in Virtual's game.

I most certainly will. Do you have a phone number or a name associated with the calls? Many sites use agencies to make follow-up calls as well as get feedback and solicit. If you have any info on the caller that would help =0)

That wasn't me, someone else said that

PS: That's not Bryan, that's George Clooney

 

[KasinoKing]

The video is not journalism.
There is no real fact finding.
There is no one to take the side of the player.
There is only one "perspective".

This is a money making promotion, plain and simple....for the APCW, and for Gambling Wages.

This is, in short, an infomercial...an infomercial that is using Casinomeister as free advertising. The use of Bryan's image in the thread is almost sickeningly self-serving, and infers that Bryan, in campaign parlance, "approves of this message".

Best friends forever or not, the classy thing to do would have been to wait until Bryan returned, and then ask him whether he wanted the link and picture posted.

I agree 1000% :notworthy

KK

 

[bb28]

We dealt with Danny (Virtual Danny) at other casinos and actually recovered over $1,000 in players money back in June of last year. We found him to be a real &#$@*&^% to deal with, but eventually got the cash.

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]

$1000 to them ......that is like $1.00 to me, get my point?

 

[Sassy1]

The use of Bryan's image in the thread is almost sickeningly self-serving, and infers that Bryan, in campaign parlance, "approves of this message".

Best friends forever or not, the classy thing to do would have been to wait until Bryan returned, and then ask him whether he wanted the link and picture posted.

EXACTLY! It is reminiscent of a political campaign where the politicians have their pictures taken with important people to garner support from those who trust or like that important person in the photo. What's the expression, a picture is worth 1,000 words? The moment I saw the picture my first impression was, WOW, he's making it seem like Bryan is on the bandwagon. If he's not, the picture wasn't appropriate.

Do you have any pictures of yourself holding any babies, APCW? That might be a good next step.

 

[theAPCW]

Well, we tried...

The APCW's intentions in this entire undertaking were always pure. We had only the best motivations going down there, doing the interview, and posting it. We truly wanted to gather your complaints and opinions and make positive changes for the industry.

For the past three days I've been professional, explained our position at great length, and been very respectful of everyones feelings and opinions... no matter how insulting some of the comments have been to me personally and professionally.

Today, however, it's painfuly obvious what a complete waste of time it has been coming here. Players on message boards are the most cannibalistic in the industry, and you have finally driven away someone who was honestly willing to fight for you, and even hand carry your complaints, needs, and wants all the way to Central America to get a resolution.

The APCW has always had an outstanding reputation for integrity and standing up for what's right. We have been at the very front of the UIGEA battle since before most people knew there was a battle. We've put our asses in the line of fire over and over again with little thanks and without asking for thanks.

Outside of Bryan and ourselves, no one in this industry lifts a finger to help players because they don't give a damn about you or your issues. The people who work for the APCW are some of the most under-paid in online gaming because they work for players and webmasters without taking the easy payoffs from casinos while hiding behind anonymous websites.

Perhaps just one of you could have done a bit of research on APCW before passing judgement and stoning us. If you had done so, you would have found a huge body of work that was completely dedicated to doing the right thing for you guys.

It's easy to do the wrong thing... Difficult to do the right thing... And if our motivations had been anything other than genuine I would have never come here to listen to you guys because I wouldn't have cared. It's times like this when I wonder why we even go to all the trouble...

Now go ahead, rip this post apart, and make it into whatever you need it to be so that you feel justified. I'll never see it anyway.

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Bryan... sorry for any disruption on your boards. I tried to edit my last post and remove the picture but I could not. I hope you and your family are alright, and I am still more than happy to help you with your project. See you soon, my friend... but not on this board, sir....

 

[winbig]

I had always believed in the APCW, up until you started promoting GW. (Coincidence? The initials should have been a red flag right there!! ) Your previous work was great, but now...

 

[suzecat]

theAPCW, I really hope you see this post because it is genuine and heartfelt..............the tone of the posts you have found objectionable are clearly proof of how we truly feel about Virtual, their clones, their affiliates, their processors, their mothers, dogs, relatives............or anything/one else that is associated in any way to them. This is a tough crowd, no doubt.......it was rather crazy/brave of you, IMO, to even attempt what you tried to accomplish for Virtual. Yes, for Virtual. I suspect you hit a brick wall when attempting to get our questions/concerns answered by them. We have been there and experienced that! So I suspect you now have first hand knowledge of how low they will go to pump up their business. Truly sorry if you were their latest victim. I wish you the best.


PS: I believe you can delete the pic in the attachments area of your user control panel.

 

[bb28]

To APCW:
I'm sorry that you feel that you wasted your time and we didn't drive you away.......you are choosing to leave. There is a difference. You should have had the foresight to know that this was going to be a very sticky issue, especially here......because there are many who have been burnt with this group and those that haven't been personally burnt and have been around any length of time......certainly know some of the horror stories. Perhaps you should have came here with a thicker skin and not ran away when the going got tough. It's easier that way isn't it and what kind of message does that send?

 

[jetset]

Well, we tried...

The APCW's intentions in this entire undertaking were always pure. We had only the best motivations going down there, doing the interview, and posting it. We truly wanted to gather your complaints and opinions and make positive changes for the industry.

For the past three days I've been professional, explained our position at great length, and been very respectful of everyones feelings and opinions... no matter how insulting some of the comments have been to me personally and professionally.

Today, however, it's painfuly obvious what a complete waste of time it has been coming here. Players on message boards are the most cannibalistic in the industry, and you have finally driven away someone who was honestly willing to fight for you, and even hand carry your complaints, needs, and wants all the way to Central America to get a resolution.

The APCW has always had an outstanding reputation for integrity and standing up for what's right. We have been at the very front of the UIGEA battle since before most people knew there was a battle. We've put our asses in the line of fire over and over again with little thanks and without asking for thanks.

Outside of Bryan and ourselves, no one in this industry lifts a finger to help players because they don't give a damn about you or your issues. The people who work for the APCW are some of the most under-paid in online gaming because they work for players and webmasters without taking the easy payoffs from casinos while hiding behind anonymous websites.

Perhaps just one of you could have done a bit of research on APCW before passing judgement and stoning us. If you had done so, you would have found a huge body of work that was completely dedicated to doing the right thing for you guys.

It's easy to do the wrong thing... Difficult to do the right thing... And if our motivations had been anything other than genuine I would have never come here to listen to you guys because I wouldn't have cared. It's times like this when I wonder why we even go to all the trouble...

Now go ahead, rip this post apart, and make it into whatever you need it to be so that you feel justified. I'll never see it anyway.

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Bryan... sorry for any disruption on your boards. I tried to edit my last post and remove the picture but I could not. I hope you and your family are alright, and I am still more than happy to help you with your project. See you soon, my friend... but not on this board, sir....

Well, I wouldn't say it was a complete waste of time - you've delivered another opportunity for players to make their true feelings known about this Costa Rican crew, and given further cautionary publicity on Virtual that might even save some poor newbie from getting screwed.

I have to say that all this patting yourself on the back doesn't sit well with me, either - if you're helping aggrieved players with those 'pure' intentions just get on with it and forego the self-praise. The satisfaction of seeing the right thing done should be sufficient reward.