APCW Reports: Gambling Wages Interview

[Auditor]

J Todd travels all the way San Jose Costa Rica to interview the Affiliate Manager for the Gambling Wages Affiliate Program about issues from the past and plans for the future. Affiliates, find out how you can get $50 added to your account for watching.

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[bb28]

Has anyone else watched the youtube video yet?
They are comparing their processing problems to the recent Bodog issues.
For those they don't know........Gambling Wages represents, Cool Cat, Cirrus, Club Player, Palace of Chance, Wild Vegas.

 

[suzecat]

pffttt...........

 

[bb28]

Suppose they really are going to change their wicked ways?

 

[suzecat]

Suppose they really are going to change their wicked ways?

pffttt.......

 

[bb28]

pffttt.......

I think we think......alike. :notworthy

 

[suzecat]

I think we think......alike. :notworthy

That has got to scare the hell out of you

AFAIC (thanks maxd!) the old "sleep with dogs, rise with fleas" quip applies to anyone who does biz with Costa Rican clip-shot joints..........and karma is a bitch, i.e., they were the ripper for so long.....now they get to be the rippee!

 

[bb28]

That has got to scare the hell out of you

AFAIC (thanks maxd!) the old "sleep with dogs, rise with fleas" quip applies to anyone who does biz with Costa Rican clip-shot joints..........and karma is a bitch, i.e., they were the ripper for so long.....now they get to be the rippee!

Actually it doesn't scare me.......I plan on staying far, far away from that one. I want to be able to sleep good at night, no fleas or dogs for me.

 

[suzecat]

Actually it doesn't scare me.......I plan on staying far, far away from that one. I want to be able to sleep good at night.

No dude, I was talking about how we think alike

 

[bb28]

Can I call that my blonde moment............for the week, heck at least the month.

 

[theAPCW]

Hey guys, just wanted to pop on down here and say thanks for watching the video... and we totally understand your skepticism.

There is no doubt in anyones mind that Gamblng Wages has had a very poor performance record with affiliates and webmasters for a long, long time. And even we were unsure of their sincerity when we began dealing with them several months ago.

The APCW now finds itself in a unique position: One of player and webmaster advocacy and watch dog status, but also acting as a liaison, a news agency, and a marketing company. It's quite a balancing act

What we have done in this particular situation is confirm that Gambling Wages is under new management (they are) , that they are attemting to get back in good standing with CAP and the GPWA as well (they are) , and to listen to what they have had to say about their changes and report that to you all. They also asked us to help pursued Casinomeister to speak with them... but Bryan was understandably hesitant.

We also appreciate, as we stated in the interview, that talk is cheap and actions are what matters. No one expects players and webmasters to simply watch an interview and then start doing business with Gambling Wages again based on a few simple words... there needs to be a demonstrated, confirmed, and maintained change in philosophy, customer service, and partner relations.

To turn this program around, however, they need to start somewhere... and they chose to start with APCW due to our ability to reach a large number of people in this industry in this format. All we ask is that you listen and watch this program over the next several months... just as the APCW will... because whether or not they have actually changed will become evident in time.

Thanks...

 

[suzecat]

They also asked us to help pursued Casinomeister to speak with them... but Bryan was understandably hesitant.

Bryan has reported in this forum that he gave The Virtual Casino group numerous chances to correct their errant ways. After a short period of seeming correction and stability, Virtual reverted back to its old ways and was thus rerogued. Bryan's hesitation then seems understandable to me.

IMO full disclosure would be a refreshing start to any dialogue, e.g., the current ownership of the recently rebranded casinos of the late Warren Cloud's Doleplex Group.

 

[jetset]

I agree - these operations have a long history of complaints and of claims to have "turned over a new leaf." I'm not surprised that Casinomeister views them with a cold eye.

 

[bb28]

I find it a little unsettling that more people haven't commented on this thread, especially since there are probably a lot of people who visit here quite often who have been burnt by this branch of casino's. Kinda bewildering don't you think? People may think that it doesn't effect them because the video is aimed at affiliates.........but that isn't necessarily so. Can a leopard change their stripes?

 

[theAPCW]

Hi again, friends...

Thanks so much for the feedback. We completely understand the ill-will and mistrust toward this group. To understand what we're doing here, please let me give you some brief history:

------------------------------------------------------------

The APCW was founded in 2003 from the aftermath of the GPWA implosion with Cynthia Carly. We had a front row seat for that debacle, and witnessed what led to that collapse: Mostly the egos of certain webmasters who though themselves "all powerful", a lack of professionalism, and poor business tactics when dealing with online casinos.

We decided that the APCW would try it's very best not to participate in such things. And during our history you may have noticed that we never tell players where to play or not play... we never tell webmasters who to promote or who to avoid... and we never tell online gaming sites how to run their business. We make every effort to simply inform and advise, and if we give an opinion we make damn sure we say it's our opinion.

To that end, we have grown into a news and information source, and we try to report facts in an unbiased manner...

We have become an advocacy and watch dog group, and are dedicated to protecting players & webmasters when the facts we discover indicate problems or issues with a site...

We are also a marketing agency for gaming sites to reach out to players and webmasters, so long as we are honest, give truthful information, and operate in the best interest of players & webmasters...

------------------------------------------------------------

All that has led to Gambling Wages in August of 2008:

Over the past year, the APCW has reported negative information on Bodog, 888, Vegas Affiliates, the Kahnawake, and Gambling Wages. And the only one to contact us and show any interest in reaching out to you guys has been Gambling Wages.

Since APCW is in such a unique position, it only makes since that any site which sincerly wanted to solve it's image and operational problems would contact us for assitance. But it makes equal sense that players and webmasters would be extremely skeptical given the record of Gambling Wages over the past several years.

Please do not confuse the message with the messenger in this case. Gambling Wages simply wants the APCW to help them solve the biggest problems they have, and get their message out that they are under new mangement and moving in a new direction.

To test that theory, the APCW went all the way to Central America to ask them the tough question you deserved to have answered, to open a dialogue between the operator and their customers & partners, and to make suggestions on how to improve their service for you all.

------------------------------------------------------------

Moving forward from here:

Gambling Wages does not expect anyone to take them at face value. They fully understand that only good payment processing, openness, communication, and better relations with players and affiliates will save their business... and they must demonstrate this change over the long-term.

The APCW will continue to help them achieve these changes so long as they continue to move forward with them sincerly. If it becomes evident that they are not working to improve the situation, or that they are not doing what they say they are doing, we will abandon the efforts and report those facts to you as well.

Thanks...

 

[suzecat]

I did not see an answer to the Virtual Casino group query. OK, so you only want to discuss Gambling Wages..........................

Could you clarify for the affiliates then, who bring players to Gambling Wages, who in turn bring those same players to The Virtual Casino Group. Why should any affiliate feel it is ok to do this based on Virtual's shady and untrustworthy past? Oh, ya, because Gambling Wages is under new management and has turned over a new leaf........................got ya, but what about Virtual????????????? IMO it makes no diffference how you spin this, the pointer still lands on The Virtual Casino group. And as far as I know (and believe) Virtual rips off people and are somewhat proud of their rep.......

 

[winbig]

I would never do business with _anyone_ that has any association with the Virtual group. End of story.

 

[jetset]

Whilst I can see the balancing act between giving a fair hearing and furthering the interests of a questionable operator in which you find yourself involved here, APCW is sufficiently experienced in the business to know how these folks have behaved in the past - repeatedly. That implies a real need for an additional helping of scepticism and caution imo.

It must also suggest to you the possibility that there is an attempt here to callously use the APCW either as a third party advertiser/publicist (paid or not) for yet another "new management" exercise that is really designed to simply ameliorate a bad rep and thereby keep pulling in the unwary.

So the APCW judgement call here must carry with it some responsibility and hopefully an obligation to help any screwed players if this group behaves true to its usual form in the future.

I would like to revisit a comment made by suzecat earlier here, because it is so completely valid in this situation:

"IMO full disclosure would be a refreshing start to any dialogue, e.g., the current ownership of the recently rebranded casinos of the late Warren Cloud's Doleplex Group."

To that, I would add details of this new management - especially important in view of the track record of this group.

In other words, if they are serious, let's see some evidence of the latest new leaf from the beginning, followed by a consistently clean record when it comes to complaints from players.

Leopards and spots can be changed, given sufficient motivation or threat to business, but not easily - particularly when the ownership remains the same.

But if there is a genuine change of corporate heart in progress here it has, as the APCW comments above, to be accompanied by practice as well as preaching.

 

[winbig]

How about starting off by getting them to pay the ~$50K to a CM member(acedpro, was it?) that Virtual basically stole. They were paying off a 6 figure win (well over a year of stalling), then suddenly quit after only paying ~50% of it.

It's obvious that they owe this player money, or else they wouldn't have already paid them ~$50K.

 

[suzecat]

How about starting off by getting them to pay the ~$50K to a CM member(acedpro, was it?) that Virtual basically stole. They were paying off a 6 figure win (well over a year of stalling), then suddenly quit after only paying ~50% of it.

It's obvious that they owe this player money, or else they wouldn't have already paid them ~$50K.

Even if the line starts (time-wise) with acepedro......it's gonna be a long damn line.......

 

[winbig]

For those of you that aren't familiar with acepedro (thanks, suze ), here's a few threads to brush up on:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...-owes-me-134-350-20.13415/?highlight=acepedro

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ithdraw-my-winnings.16966/?highlight=acepedro

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...that-44k-you-owe-me.19963/?highlight=acepedro

 

[KasinoKing]

Can a leopard change their stripes?

Very very unlikely; A Tiger has stripes - a Leopard has spots!


And since TheAuditor/TheAPCW (is that J Todd?) has 'cut & pasted' the same post in several places, here's my 'cut & pasted' reply at WOL:-

There is no doubt in anyones mind that Gambling Wages has had a very poor performance record with affiliates and webmasters for a long, long time...

Who gives a flying toss about affiliates & webmasters getting paid???
It's the PLAYERS who need to have their accounts sorted out.
Stop conning them, ripping them off, delaying payments, etc...
When players win, pay them quickly (i.e. within 4 days) and in FULL - none of this $2000/week $4000/month bullcrap!

Anyway, who runs these casinos - Gambling Wages?
If they don't run the casinos how can they make ANY promises to start treating players better?

To turn this program around, however, they need to start somewhere... and they chose to start with APCW due to our ability to reach a large number of people in this industry in this format. All we ask is that you listen and watch this program over the next several months... just as the APCW will... because whether or not they have actually changed will become evident in time.

I agree with that (I'm all for second chances) - give them time to prove they can turn it round. I would say at least 6 months.
And THEN start telling the world via your far reaching network.
Jumping straight in just because the 'former scum' have a few new people on board is seriously jumping the gun IMHO.

My 2c.

 

[winbig]

I agree with KK.

If I were in your shoes I don't care how much money they offered me (I guess they made you an offer you couldn't refuse?), I wouldn't take them as a client in a million years.

I have ethics when it comes to this, and two words sum it up quite well: "Sell out."

They've been fcking players (probably affiliates as well) for years, and now all of a sudden they've changed their ways? You're going to take their word for it? Change doesn't happen overnight. Let them change, THEN enter into a business relationship with them.

I have a bad feeling about this, and hope you don't get screwed (credibility & financially) in the process.

Please remember that these are only heart-felt suggestions, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your business.

 

[suzecat]

Well, I'm just gonna jump in and speculate here (based on a few years of first hand player knowledge with Virtual).................

Suppose that Virtual bought up a stable of casinos that had a rep as bad as their own,

To market these new casinos, Virtual took some care in NOT revealing they were part of the Virtual group, but rather, through some creative imaging, tried to make the public believe they were operated by unrelated worldwide business interests,

Simultaneous to the above, Virtual, err Gambling Wages, solicited the services of a well known webmaster to help them "clean up their act" and convince affiliates to give them a new go,

So if this plan is successful, the affiliates will market the hell out of the "new and improved" casinos, bring in loads of new players (and hope like hell they get paid),

And all is well until ................... next year, when we'll hear this same pitch all over again after Virtual has stiffed some winners/affiliates, big and small, and managed to get re-re-re-rogued.

Meanwhile, Virtual has managed to make loads of money - even recouping their investment for the stable of casinos - and so what about the bad rep? Been there before................

 

[bb28]

I also agree with KK and winbig, except for the part about second chances.......why should they deserve anymore? Haven't they had more than enough?
IMO, it's all about credibility and we all know that their past reputation does NOT give them any credibility at all. They have a clear and repeated history of ripping people off.....be it players and/or affiliates.

I agree with KK.

If I were in your shoes I don't care how much money they offered me (I guess they made you an offer you couldn't refuse?), I wouldn't take them as a client in a million years.

I have ethics when it comes to this, and two words sum it up quite well: "Sell out."

They've been fcking players (probably affiliates as well) for years, and now all of a sudden they've changed their ways? You're going to take their word for it? Change doesn't happen overnight. Let them change, THEN enter into a business relationship with them.

I have a bad feeling about this, and hope you don't get screwed (credibility & financially) in the process.

Please remember that these are only heart-felt suggestions, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your business.