Another 3Dice rant.

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
One thing that burns my ass when I'm playing slot games is waiting forever for free spins and then the spins hit nothing. I know it happens from time to time but when you're playing multiline slot games the only way to really win is to get these free spins and then hit something when you get them.

To me it really makes no difference if I made a half decent withdrawal once or twice in the last few months. I'd still like to see bonus features that normally pay something not normally crap out.

I don't want to turn this into another variance discussion because in my opinion the variance comes from the fact that during regular spins almost everything you hit pays a portion of your wager and unless you get these free spins you're just going to go broke. Hit the free spins, get a bonus feature with a multiplier and finally make some money. That's the way it's usually worked for me. If anyone's going to tell me the only way to win anything is to hit the highest paying lines during the free spin with the multiplier repeatedly to come out ahead then I don't consider that high variance. I consider that unfair and really bad odds.

End of Variance discussion.

The problem I find at 3Dice is that 98% of my spins hit crap when I'm playing a bonus feature. It's hard enough to hit them in the first place and when I finally do it's a little disappointing when as many as 30 or 40 free spins pays 4x my wager.

Tonight on one deposit I had free spins in Coral Clams that paid a 4x my wager on 7 free spins with a 6x multiplier. Payola I had 16 free spins with a 4x multiplier and a 16 spin retrigger with 2x and managed to win 5 bucks. Fortune Falls finally hit a bonus after 104 spins and paid 6x my wager. I had one good bonus feature that paid well in Tutankhamon and my next free spin bonus on a 50 cent wager with 20 free spins and a 6x multiplier won $2.68.

I have questioned many times why everytime I get a free spin bonus none of the spins will even pay 1x my wager and I get the standard casino response, If you don't like our games don't play here. I guess that's not bad advice. Not exactly the answer I was looking for though. I guess they're getting kind of tired of the question. Which doesn't surprise me because I'm getting kind of tired of asking it.

I guess what really sparked the rant was the way I seem to be told it's ok for free spins to perpetually crap out deposit after deposit as long as I've won something recently or sometime in the past. If I get up a little bit that doesn't necessarily mean I have to crap out every bonus feature until I'm back down. There was a time when I used to gamble online and free spin bonuses used to mean something. These days when I hit them I'm more surprised when they pay than when they don't. In my opinion if every free spin bonus wins less than it cost to hit it then spinning the slots is a complete waste of time. I can understand once or twice but it shouldn't be the norm.
 

kakata

Banned User - hyper flamming
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:rolleyes:
One thing that burns my ass when I'm playing slot games is waiting forever for free spins and then the spins hit nothing. I know it happens from time to time but when you're playing multiline slot games the only way to really win is to get these free spins and then hit something when you get them.

To me it really makes no difference if I made a half decent withdrawal once or twice in the last few months. I'd still like to see bonus features that normally pay something not normally crap out.

I don't want to turn this into another variance discussion because in my opinion the variance comes from the fact that during regular spins almost everything you hit pays a portion of your wager and unless you get these free spins you're just going to go broke. Hit the free spins, get a bonus feature with a multiplier and finally make some money. That's the way it's usually worked for me. If anyone's going to tell me the only way to win anything is to hit the highest paying lines during the free spin with the multiplier repeatedly to come out ahead then I don't consider that high variance. I consider that unfair and really bad odds.

End of Variance discussion.

The problem I find at 3Dice is that 98% of my spins hit crap when I'm playing a bonus feature. It's hard enough to hit them in the first place and when I finally do it's a little disappointing when as many as 30 or 40 free spins pays 4x my wager.

Tonight on one deposit I had free spins in Coral Clams that paid a 4x my wager on 7 free spins with a 6x multiplier. Payola I had 16 free spins with a 4x multiplier and a 16 spin retrigger with 2x and managed to win 5 bucks. Fortune Falls finally hit a bonus after 104 spins and paid 6x my wager. I had one good bonus feature that paid well in Tutankhamon and my next free spin bonus on a 50 cent wager with 20 free spins and a 6x multiplier won $2.68.

I have questioned many times why everytime I get a free spin bonus none of the spins will even pay 1x my wager and I get the standard casino response, If you don't like our games don't play here. I guess that's not bad advice. Not exactly the answer I was looking for though. I guess they're getting kind of tired of the question. Which doesn't surprise me because I'm getting kind of tired of asking it.

I guess what really sparked the rant was the way I seem to be told it's ok for free spins to perpetually crap out deposit after deposit as long as I've won something recently or sometime in the past. If I get up a little bit that doesn't necessarily mean I have to crap out every bonus feature until I'm back down. There was a time when I used to gamble online and free spin bonuses used to mean something. These days when I hit them I'm more surprised when they pay than when they don't. In my opinion if every free spin bonus wins less than it cost to hit it then spinning the slots is a complete waste of time. I can understand once or twice but it shouldn't be the norm.


dont worry u r not the only one:rolleyes:
....but this is "the best " casino online sofar.....
 

just play

closed account
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Jan 27, 2006
Location
USA
I guess what really sparked the rant was the way I seem to be told it's ok for free spins to perpetually crap out deposit after deposit as long as I've won something recently or sometime in the past. If I get up a little bit that doesn't necessarily mean I have to crap out every bonus feature until I'm back down. There was a time when I used to gamble online and free spin bonuses used to mean something. These days when I hit them I'm more surprised when they pay than when they don't. In my opinion if every free spin bonus wins less than it cost to hit it then spinning the slots is a complete waste of time. I can understand once or twice but it shouldn't be the norm.


I agree with this....it's true for me too...not just at 3dice but I have had a horrible time at RTG lately.
 

nisosbar

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Right here
I've lost WAY more on 3Dice than I've won.

That said, it really is so variable from session to session. I almost NEVER find that, on a night when I find a slot paying out well, that the following night it continues paying out like that. Which is why it's important to be sensitive to whether a slot is tight or loose on each particular session - and either move to another slot, or stay and maybe increase your bet size, in response.

Personally, this is my absolute favorite online casino. My only complaint is the smallish number of video slots, and also perhaps the lack of any slots with expanding wilds.
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
I agree with this....it's true for me too...not just at 3dice but I have had a horrible time at RTG lately.

Actually when I played at Casino Titan my free spins paid just fine. I just didn't hit very many of them. Personally I find it more frustrating when I hit the free spins and they pay nothing. They're really not that easy to get at the best of times. If the free spins are all worthless you're just beating a dead horse.

I opened the discussion with Casino Titan about how much harder it seems to be to win with RTG these days compared to a couple of years ago. I was wondering if the RJ's are taking their toll on the regular play. They seemed quite sympathetic to the fact that I spun away my deposit with almost no bonus features and offered to give me another try. I really don't think players should be expecting a redo when they lose a deposit but the gesture seemed a little nicer than just being told if you don't like it don't play. For that reason alone my next deposit goes there.
 

just play

closed account
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Location
USA
Actually when I played at Casino Titan my free spins paid just fine. I just didn't hit very many of them. Personally I find it more frustrating when I hit the free spins and they pay nothing. They're really not that easy to get at the best of times. If the free spins are all worthless you're just beating a dead horse.

I opened the discussion with Casino Titan about how much harder it seems to be to win with RTG these days compared to a couple of years ago. I was wondering if the RJ's are taking their toll on the regular play. They seemed quite sympathetic to the fact that I spun away my deposit with almost no bonus features and offered to give me another try. I really don't think players should be expecting a redo when they lose a deposit but the gesture seemed a little nicer than just being told if you don't like it don't play. For that reason alone my next deposit goes there.


Yes, I don't care for that line "if you don't like it don't play", it's like getting kicked in the face.

I never tried Casino Titan, I opened a new RTG account the other day and they couldn't "see" my documents clear enough, after 2 tries, I told them forget it, just close my account then. Maybe I will try Casino Titan.

But back to 3dice, you can imagine how well I am doing there after hitting the Joker jackpot. ;) I did have a chance to cash out last week, but was having fun gambling, then all of a sudden.....poof a few hundred gone within minutes!!! It's really weird.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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Sep 20, 2005
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Left Hungary
skiny:I find it more frustrating when I hit the free spins and they pay nothing. They're really not that easy to get at the best of times. If the free spins are all worthless you're just beating a dead horse.
I can relate to what you are saying skiny, I hit the butterfly bonus 5 times in a long drawn out sesson (after a long string of non wins) and thought each and everytime, ALRIGHT this time I will get enough back to play more...but out of the 5 bonus rounds, I made 88 cents betting a $1.87 a spin. Not even getting my investment back x 1 ($1.87) on all 5 bonus rounds.

I get frustrated and leave and give it a break because I get to the point of feeling the same, beating a dead horse syndrome. I posted my screenies on these 5 rounds in the screenshots that suck.

I have won some at 3Dice but I agree, catching the bonus round SHOULD be the ultimate goal and SHOULD reward the player for investing so much to hit it..but it doesn't..

Take a breather..it helps a lot....I have...and it feels great..
"if you don't like it don't play",
That is the gratitude you get for being a loyal depositer, almost on the same line as Rivals, RTG's Mg's etc.."sorry for your bad run of luck" when you know it has nothing to do with luck but with the settings...

.
 

osulle

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Location
In my head
One thing that burns my ass when I'm playing slot games is waiting forever for free spins and then the spins hit nothing. I know it happens from time to time but when you're playing multiline slot games the only way to really win is to get these free spins and then hit something when you get them.

To me it really makes no difference if I made a half decent withdrawal once or twice in the last few months. I'd still like to see bonus features that normally pay something not normally crap out.

I don't want to turn this into another variance discussion because in my opinion the variance comes from the fact that during regular spins almost everything you hit pays a portion of your wager and unless you get these free spins you're just going to go broke. Hit the free spins, get a bonus feature with a multiplier and finally make some money. That's the way it's usually worked for me. If anyone's going to tell me the only way to win anything is to hit the highest paying lines during the free spin with the multiplier repeatedly to come out ahead then I don't consider that high variance. I consider that unfair and really bad odds.

End of Variance discussion.

The problem I find at 3Dice is that 98% of my spins hit crap when I'm playing a bonus feature. It's hard enough to hit them in the first place and when I finally do it's a little disappointing when as many as 30 or 40 free spins pays 4x my wager.

Tonight on one deposit I had free spins in Coral Clams that paid a 4x my wager on 7 free spins with a 6x multiplier. Payola I had 16 free spins with a 4x multiplier and a 16 spin retrigger with 2x and managed to win 5 bucks. Fortune Falls finally hit a bonus after 104 spins and paid 6x my wager. I had one good bonus feature that paid well in Tutankhamon and my next free spin bonus on a 50 cent wager with 20 free spins and a 6x multiplier won $2.68.

I have questioned many times why everytime I get a free spin bonus none of the spins will even pay 1x my wager and I get the standard casino response, If you don't like our games don't play here. I guess that's not bad advice. Not exactly the answer I was looking for though. I guess they're getting kind of tired of the question. Which doesn't surprise me because I'm getting kind of tired of asking it.

I guess what really sparked the rant was the way I seem to be told it's ok for free spins to perpetually crap out deposit after deposit as long as I've won something recently or sometime in the past. If I get up a little bit that doesn't necessarily mean I have to crap out every bonus feature until I'm back down. There was a time when I used to gamble online and free spin bonuses used to mean something. These days when I hit them I'm more surprised when they pay than when they don't. In my opinion if every free spin bonus wins less than it cost to hit it then spinning the slots is a complete waste of time. I can understand once or twice but it shouldn't be the norm.

OMG I thought it was just me! I have been depositing mostly at 3Dice lately since but I am getting really pissed at how fast my deposits are going. You could say I have been having the worst loosing streak ever!! I love Coral Clams and Slotronomicon. I have depsosited countless times in the last few weeks and all I bust out with all my deposits. Anyway I noticed that the wins on the freespins for slotonomicon suck really bad, I can get quite alot of free spins with x1 multiplier but they never pay much. Every time I get a x2 or x4 multiplier the free spins pay even worse since I get the 3 black hearts very fast. Getting a free spin mode x2 or x4 times with this slot used to mean something.
I had a session the other day and after 280 or so spins I didnt get the free spin feature on Coral Clams which I thought was odd since this is a medium variance slot. Anyway those features suck too. I even got the gold album a few times on Payola for 75 free spins but didn't get what I thought I would. I won a whopping $12 dollars on one of these 75 free spins mode with a trigger bet of $0.75 which to me sucks
Its almost to a point that I can predict what the slots are going to do. Getting the free spin feature used to fill me with glee now I am ambivalent cause 9 times out of 10 I get next to near nothing.
The other thing is that there is very little difference between the high and medium variance slots for me in terms of wins or loses so I think that variance level crap is another way to say "see how fast you can lose".

I do love 3Dice and I am will continue to play there. I just wish that I can have a decent enough session that is worth me cashing out for.
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
This is kind of my point. The games are so different when in free spin mode that it's almost impossible to make a line sometimes.

I can hit 200 free spins or more in Payola but 80% of them hit zero and the rest hit the smallest win lines. Literally. Can you imagine if you played a slot game and 8 out of 10 spins hit zero and the rest hit the minimum wins? You would either be broke or quit in minutes.

Coral clams does quite well at paying my wager back or slightly more. Enough ot keep me spinning for a while. But add a multiplier and suddenly I'm hitting nothing sometimes 12 spins on a 14 free spin bonus.

I realize that these games play with different reel strips during free play but do they have to be so drastically different that most of the time I win more in regular play than I do with a healthy multiplier?
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I don't want to turn this into another variance discussion because in my opinion the variance comes from the fact that during regular spins almost everything you hit pays a portion of your wager and unless you get these free spins you're just going to go broke. Hit the free spins, get a bonus feature with a multiplier and finally make some money. That's the way it's usually worked for me. If anyone's going to tell me the only way to win anything is to hit the highest paying lines during the free spin with the multiplier repeatedly to come out ahead then I don't consider that high variance. I consider that unfair and really bad odds.

End of Variance discussion.

Nothing personal, but if you dismissing variance out of hand as an explanation of your playing experience, you are ignoring mathematical facts....and maths dont lie.

Did you see someone hit $5600 on a $1.50 bet at 3Dice the other day - now how do you think the casino is going to make money if everyone had a good chance of hitting like this? The answer is that they dont have a good chance - in fact, the chances are slim.

If you want to play a slot where you have a reasonable chance to hit 4-500xbet or 1000xbet, you have to accept that the vast majority of the spins in between (bonus rounds included) are going to pay very little. All the 3Dice slots, and many of the RTG slots, work this way. These slots will suck you dry very quickly, but by the same token you can hit 2000xbet or more (Ive done it more than once)..i.e. the big wins are bigger, but less frequent.

Imagine a pendulum swinging from win to lose - at 3Dice the pendulum has a very wide arc. You win big or you lose big. No in-betweens.

Its called variance.

If a slot player cant accept the idea of variance, they are destined to be writing posts like these forever and ever. You have to accept that the risk of playing for a big win is that you will likely have a big loss.

The only other explanation is that the casino/software is cheating - in which case, it is perfectly reasonable for someone to advise you to stop playing there, as there is no way I would give money to someone I thought was cheating me....would you??

Its nothing personal against anyone, Im just trying to show that all of this is within the normal mathematical expectations of a high variance slot game, in the hope that it might allow other members to make more informed choices when it comes to the games they play vs their available bankroll. If you dont have a big bankroll, and you want to have some reasonable play time for your money, then high variance slots are the worst choice you can make.
 

sparkles

Registered
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Location
The bottom of the Garden
Its quite

true those awesome spins cant come round everyday, that $5000 spin off $1.50 is pretty fantastic, and they do happen, in fact if you ask onemoorebaby, I beleive hes hit in excess of 3500 x his bet, three times this year,

Trollet has also had some pretty amazing wins, Im sure both of them could tell you that they do happen. Trollet has a lot of her screenies on her profile at 3dice of her good wins

In the same breath I do understand how you feel when the old 4 x's your bet comes round in the spins, I seem to be having a reasonable date with those lately, but I guess to have the big winners, there has to be the losers.

Good luck!!
 

just play

closed account
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USA
Nifty, I for once really enjoyed reading this post of yours. It had a different feel to it than your normal posts. No offence intended, I just really liked the way you worded it.

But what about 3dice low variance slots?
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
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Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
Play 3dice for first time and won

cashedout 600.00 to QT paid fast. But I noticed that I there are very few slots so I will be allowing a considerable amount of time before playing again.
It is not as if I could play the following day or week playing slots I had not played before. This is why I can often play some casinos several days in a row and have a chance of winning multiple times, just my opinion
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
Nothing personal, but if you dismissing variance out of hand as an explanation of your playing experience, you are ignoring mathematical facts....and maths dont lie.

Did you see someone hit $5600 on a $1.50 bet at 3Dice the other day - now how do you think the casino is going to make money if everyone had a good chance of hitting like this? The answer is that they dont have a good chance - in fact, the chances are slim.

If you want to play a slot where you have a reasonable chance to hit 4-500xbet or 1000xbet, you have to accept that the vast majority of the spins in between (bonus rounds included) are going to pay very little. All the 3Dice slots, and many of the RTG slots, work this way. These slots will suck you dry very quickly, but by the same token you can hit 2000xbet or more (Ive done it more than once)..i.e. the big wins are bigger, but less frequent.

Imagine a pendulum swinging from win to lose - at 3Dice the pendulum has a very wide arc. You win big or you lose big. No in-betweens.

Its called variance.

If a slot player cant accept the idea of variance, they are destined to be writing posts like these forever and ever. You have to accept that the risk of playing for a big win is that you will likely have a big loss.

The only other explanation is that the casino/software is cheating - in which case, it is perfectly reasonable for someone to advise you to stop playing there, as there is no way I would give money to someone I thought was cheating me....would you??

Its nothing personal against anyone, Im just trying to show that all of this is within the normal mathematical expectations of a high variance slot game, in the hope that it might allow other members to make more informed choices when it comes to the games they play vs their available bankroll. If you dont have a big bankroll, and you want to have some reasonable play time for your money, then high variance slots are the worst choice you can make.

Nothing personal but if you ever played at this casino you would know that this casino actually lists their slot games according to variance and if I can spin 200 times and hit zero on 80% of thier spins on a Medium variance game then the high variance would be next to impossible to win anything.

Also you miss the point that the game play on the free spins as opposed to the regular spins is so far apart that hitting the free spins in some of these games is all but pointless.

You pick any slot game in any casino online or on land and tell me that because of high or low variance a person can't win a large amount of money on a low wager. Once in a while. A very rare occasion at any casino someone bets really low and wins really high and if you think everyone else is going to be content to hit crap because someone finally got a nice hit you're mistaken.

The reason I leave variance out of this discussion is because you can lose every spin for the rest of your life and pretty much any casino will tell you it's within the expected variance.

Just because it's remotely possible (Very Very remotely possible) to hit a huge amount of money on a slot game on a low wager doesn't mean that the free spin bonuses have to be designed to hit crap 8 times out of 10.

I hit 4000 dollars on a 25 cent spin from an RJ playing Hidden Riches at an RTG casino. That money comes from the expected overall RTP. A 16000x win. Doesn't mean the free spin bonuses on that game hit zero 8 spins out of 10. In fact the bonus features in that game usually pay me quite well.

If a slot player is willing to accept that variance is an excuse for slot games to burn him on bonus features time and time again then he's going to be destined to be answering posts like this forever and ever.
 

Nifty29

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Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Just a couple of things Skiny:

The reason I leave variance out of this discussion is because you can lose every spin for the rest of your life and pretty much any casino will tell you it's within the expected variance.

I gather from this statement that you dont understand what variance is, or you are not interested in understanding it. Either way is cool, but as a result your opinions will not be completely based on fact.

I hit 4000 dollars on a 25 cent spin from an RJ playing Hidden Riches at an RTG casino. That money comes from the expected overall RTP. A 16000x win. Doesn't mean the free spin bonuses on that game hit zero 8 spins out of 10. In fact the bonus features in that game usually pay me quite well.

You are comparing oranges with apples here. The money represents about 1.5% of RTP e.g. a 96% slot with a RJ means the game itself (e.g the reels etc) pays 94.5%.

Variance is not the same as RTP.

Return To Player is exactly that - how much of the money invested is returned to the player as winnings.

Variance is how that money is returned to the player i.e. in one big hit, or several smaller hits. As you have experienced, if its the former then there will be long sessions of very little payouts.....but when you hit the big one it brings you back closer towards the RTP.

The RJ has very little bearing on what the free spins pay or how often they appear.

If a slot player is willing to accept that variance is an excuse for slot games to burn him on bonus features time and time again then he's going to be destined to be answering posts like this forever and ever

Its not an excuse, its a fact.

Ignore facts at your own peril.

If you want more playtime and less crappy bonus rounds, choose a lower variance slot. Otherwise, you continue to get crappy bonus rounds and little playtime.....I gaurantee it.

As I said, there is only one other explanation besides variance - that the RTP is in fact much lower than advertised, and in that case it is cheating. If you believe this is the case, and you continue to play, then you are willingly allowing someone to rip you off and you shouldnt, therefore, complain about it.
 

3Dice

I-Gaming Industry Representative
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Feb 14, 2007
Location
-
Hi Guys,

As a general pointer, its a good idea to check your stats with our staff before making decisions or statements about your status. It is a well known psychological effect that we tend to put more weight to recent events even if they misalign with the facts. (In psychology, this is called the Rashomon effect). This is preliminary important if you're planning on making general statements about such subjects as variance, game balances, or quality of entertainment. Far to often I see posts on this forum dealing with these subjects that should actually be about the posters luck. (and quite often even just the recent luck.). You'll be able to count on a lot more support from your fellow players, from casino staff, and on much more sympathy if you rant about your luck when you've had bad luck as opposed to projecting that onto games, casinos or operators. It'll reduce conflict - and you will avoid potentially embarrassing situations.

Hi Skiny,

If your luck at 3Dice hasn't been as good lately, then I fully sympathize with that. Good runs are a lot more fun than bad ones, I'm sure its hard to find someone that disagrees. In this particular case however I have a pretty good hunch of why you feel the way you do. Your withdraws at 3Dice greatly exceed your deposits and your overall lifetime RTP is still over 100%. That means your luck has been above average in the past, and it is but human that this has influenced your perception. It is however a dangerous thing to reflect that in statements about the software or games - when the numbers sharply contradict those. (you mention coral clams not paying in bonus - yet you've got 119.02% lifetime RTP on that game - with all good wins from bonus.). I'm sure your last session on it wasn't the best you've seen but that is just the bucket of cold water that feels a lot colder if you've just pulled your hand out of the hot water bucket. Projecting your luck on the games creates a twisted picture not just for other forum readers, but in the first place for yourself. Now had you made a post about how you'd take a cavity search over your recent luck - then I could have only agreed. (I wouldn't have volunteered - just agreed).

I do hope your luck turns soon, Skiny !

Cheers,

Enzo



p.s. just to dot the i's .. none of the 3Dice slots use a different reel setup in freespins versus normal spins. (on slotronomicon the color of the hearts changes in freespins - but the reel layout is still the same).
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
I gather from this statement that you dont understand what variance is, or you are not interested in understanding it. Either way is cool

I gather from this statement that you dont understand what this thread is about, or you are not interested in understanding it. Either way is cool

You are comparing oranges with apples here.

Actually I was talking about something entirely different and you showed up with a fruit basket.

Ignore facts at your own peril.

That actually sounds kind of scary. We’re still talking about spinning 40 cent slots, right?

As a general pointer, its a good idea to check your stats with our staff before making decisions or statements about your status. It is a well known psychological effect that we tend to put more weight to recent events even if they misalign with the facts. (In psychology, this is called the Rashomon effect).

Well. That’s the nicest anyone’s ever called me nuts. Usually they just say I sniff glue.

This is preliminary important if you're planning on making general statements about such subjects as variance, game balances, or quality of entertainment. Far to often I see posts on this forum dealing with these subjects that should actually be about the posters luck. (and quite often even just the recent luck.). You'll be able to count on a lot more support from your fellow players, from casino staff, and on much more sympathy if you rant about your luck when you've had bad luck as opposed to projecting that onto games, casinos or operators.

Actually I’m not the one who brought up variance and am I looking for sympathy. Many players agree with me. If some don’t that’s fine.

It'll reduce conflict - and you will avoid potentially embarrassing situations.

This started out as a rant and I’m not embarrassed in the least. Unless you’re talking about you or Nifty.

If your luck at 3Dice hasn't been as good lately, then I fully sympathize with that. Good runs are a lot more fun than bad ones, I'm sure its hard to find someone that disagrees. In this particular case however I have a pretty good hunch of why you feel the way you do. Your withdraws at 3Dice greatly exceed your deposits and your overall lifetime RTP is still over 100%. That means your luck has been above average in the past, and it is but human that this has influenced your perception.

Most people who play at a casino regularly have been up on the casino at times and down at times. This has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.

It is however a dangerous thing to reflect that in statements about the software or games - when the numbers sharply contradict those. (you mention coral clams not paying in bonus - yet you've got 119.02% lifetime RTP on that game - with all good wins from bonus.).

The numbers don’t contradict anything because I’m not talking about lifetime RTP. I’m talking about free spin bonus behavior. (I've hit a couple of good bonuses on that game but almost all my bonuses in Coral Clams crap out.)

I'm sure your last session on it wasn't the best you've seen but that is just the bucket of cold water that feels a lot colder if you've just pulled your hand out of the hot water bucket. Projecting your luck on the games creates a twisted picture not just for other forum readers, but in the first place for yourself. Now had you made a post about how you'd take a cavity search over your recent luck - then I could have only agreed. (I wouldn't have volunteered - just agreed).

Cavity search was and always is the furthest thing from my mind.

Now… If anyone wants to start a thread about psychology or variance I’ll join that one too but the entire point of this conversation was that when I hit free spins they have a very good habit of hitting much less than when I’m playing regular spins. I’ve given examples earlier in this thread and in private I’ve heard and given many more examples. I fully understand variance and when I’m playing games like Squirrel Pike or Medieval Moolah the games behave exactly how I expect them to. I start those games with the expectation to hit zero after zero after zero in the regular spins and when I finally do hit something it’s usually not too bad.

I’m talking about games like Payola where I can spin 150 times before finally getting a free spin bonus and during that regular play I’m hitting anywhere from 25% of my wager to 3x my wager very regularly. Usually with a very small amount of zero hits. Then when I finally get to spin for free I get 78 free spins and 65 of them hit zero. This is what my original rant was about. This is what burns my ass. Call me crazy if you like but like I said – Free spins used to mean something. Free spins used to be the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It used to be quite normal for free spins to win something good. Now it’s quite normal for free spins to hit nothing until your bonus feature is done.

I’ve always praised you Enzo. I’ve always said you’re a good guy. I like the staff at 3Dice probably more than they like me. I like almost everyone I know that plays there. And yes when you finally do hit something at your casino it can pay well. But when I watch the spin results change so drastically as soon as I add a multiplier and stop paying for the spins it burns my ass.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
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skiny: Call me crazy if you like but like I said – Free spins used to mean something. Free spins used to be the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
This is the same argument I tried to have a while back but as usual...the math nuts and variance nuts chime in to say all is the way is should be...

Well....what is the POINT of a bonus round if NOT to win ?? Why even bother to have one...geezes, I can scratch my head and at least that feels GOOD...and is FREE!

skiny, you are really beating a dead horse here because no one wants to hear this...I know..I was booo'ed all the way out of discussing anything such as free spins and the meanings of it, etc etc...I feel if you offer a bonus round with free spins, then they should pay SOMETHING..and not just a big fat ZERO! It costs BIG to catch those.. and are not cheap sessions...

I also agree with it being the gold bucket at the end of the rainbow but many of these casinos have forgotten the plot to get the greenbacks...it is called GREED, not VARIANCE because a bonus round regardless of VARIANCE would pay SOMETHING since it costs an arm and a leg to get!

I just hit 2 bonus rounds on the butterfly and got ZILCH but it ate up my $100+ bankroll in no time...variance, naw...greed..yes..

Suggestion to any casino offering these ridiculous games with bonuses...take the bonus out and you would have a lot less frustrated players..because then the EXPECTATION of a good win will not be there..

Again, we will have a thread full of variances, etc etc..which is NOT the issue, BONUS rounds are..

I am with you on this one skiny...and have already tried to make sense of why they even bother with them if they allow a zero win...talk about bending you over big time..and 3Dice isn't the only one good for this....I can think of one or two others that continue to offer zilch on bonus round wins..thinking they are giving something..and they are....NOTHING!
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Nifty29

Dormant account
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Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Skiny, its a shame you had to ruin a good discussion/argument with some high school sarcasm. Instead of presenting your side of the coin with explanations and evidence about why you think my argument is invalid, you just say 'pffft' and dismiss it. :rolleyes:

I know exactly how you feel, as Im a slot player too......the difference is I made the effort to educate myself about how they work, and now I understand why things happen as they do. It doesnt mean I dont get annoyed when I lose, but it does mean I dont let it burn me up and spoil the entire experience. Everyone is different, but if it was eating me like its eating you I would take a break.

Interesting that you are 20% ahead of the game you are complaining about......I am sure you have hit lots and lots of BS bonus rounds along the way, but managed to hit a couple of big ones here and there which put you in the black. You know, there is a name for that - Variance.
 
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