WARNING Affiliates Who Target Problem Gamblers

[dunover]

Who said he gets paid RS? Our Ryan is chatting with him and I'm pretty sure there will be a satisfying solution coming.

Also its a public holiday, so majority of the industry is off today.

You stated he had removed L&L from the site but didn't say he had his aff a/c closed. Therefore any residual players before this scam promotion began would still be paid?

 

[paul7388]

Even if an affiliate wanted to do that, you don't see that type of information, nor do you have any way of knowing who the customer is.

Thought that would be the way it worked.

So i am taking an educated guess that some affiliates must make a good bit from some problem gamblers. So in a way some affiliates that do everything by the book and care about problem gamblers still actually profit a lot from them. Just makes me think about ethics and morals.

 

[dunover]

Even worse is the fact that one of those rogue sites in the image is owned and run by an ex-affiliate manager for one of the big bookmakers.

 

[colinsunderland]

Thought that would be the way it worked.

So i am taking an educated guess that some affiliates must make a good bit from some problem gamblers. So in a way some affiliates that do everything by the book and care about problem gamblers still actually profit a lot from them. Just makes me think about ethics and morals.

I'm sure they do, but even if you see a large spend, it doesn't mean theres a problem.
I had a customer who signed up around 3 years ago and lost £10k in a month. I actually spoke to the affiliate manager about him as I was concerned it was card fraud or something but he told me the customer had been through enhanced KYC and had also been through a full SOW process (before the casinos were doing it like they are now, so they obviously had concerns too) and that £10k was a drop in the ocean from his bank balance. He still deposits now (usually £500 a time) but once a month or so. I could have looked at him and thought 'problem gambler' but turns out he was just rich lol.
Point is, we have no way of knowing. I wouldn't target problem gamblers and had RG sections and warnings on my sites well before the regulations were tightened up. Theres only so much you can do as an affiliate.

 

[The Dude]

Just to jump in real quick - there is a big difference between an affiliate who directly targets problem gamblers and ones that have lists of casinos that lack EU/UK licenses. It is the targeting that is unethical, morally vacant, and dangerous, not just hosting a list.

 

[aidanlcfc]

Even worse is the fact that one of those rogue sites in the image is owned and run by an ex-affiliate manager for one of the big bookmakers.

may I asked which which and by whom, guessing I'd know the person from the past

 

[dunover]

may I asked which which and by whom, guessing I'd know the person from the past

I'm not going to be posting stuff to create personal attacks, even if they are deserving of it. It was merely to further demonstrate that at least one of these people should really know better.

 

[aidanlcfc]

fair enough ^. Anyway, as I said yesterday I have just created a blog post on the matter here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I also have referenced this thread, gamstop and Duncan's Bet Blocker so anyone want to link back to it or share it anywhere feel free, I hope someone finds it useful.

edit - just wanted to say I didn't try and put a keyword rich link in, I placed it bare but the forum seems to have pulled the title?

 

[Nicola]

Is now not the time to rogue Con******* Casino @Casinomeister @ThePOGG ?

As others have shown here, they have zero interest in ever adding GAMSTOP even though they are UKGC registered. When I told them my concerns that problem gamblers were signing up there (proof on TGC) they said it was not in their interest too.

Also as this thread as shown, they have active affiliates promoting them on dedicated non-GAMSTOP pages along with dubious advertising practices on Google AdWords.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Click the shit out of those google adwords. Its going to cost 'm serious money.

 

[colinsunderland]

Is now not the time to rogue Con******* Casino @Casinomeister @ThePOGG ?

As others have shown here, they have zero interest in ever adding GAMSTOP even though they are UKGC registered. When I told them my concerns that problem gamblers were signing up there (proof on TGC) they said it was not in their interest too.

Also as this thread as shown, they have active affiliates promoting them on dedicated non-GAMSTOP pages along with dubious advertising practices on Google AdWords.

That's not what happened with me when I spoke with them.

 

[Borgie]

That's not what happened with me when I spoke with them.

What happened when you spoke to them ?

 

[goatwack]

What happened when you spoke to them ?

They exchanged words

 

[colinsunderland]

What happened when you spoke to them ?

I asked if they accepted players registered with GameStop and was told very clearly, if I register an account it would be immediately closed for life.

 

[Scott1baird]

going through the conquestador site and checking for gamban or anything like I did see at the bottom a link to gamblingtherapy . org/en

 

[Scott1baird]

Do UK licensed casino need to be part of gamstop or similar? is it mandatory?

 

[Nicola]

Do UK licensed casino need to be part of gamstop or similar? is it mandatory?

It was meant to be, but the UKGC keep extending the deadline. There are only three casinos left that have not signed up.

Con********* have had nearly a year to implement the GAMSTOP check but have failed to do so. Since then its fairly common knowledge and a lot of people have given in to temptation. There are threads even on AG about the lack of SE.

I did check earlier and an account which is linked to GAMSTOP is still accessible so its still not in place.

 

[colinsunderland]

https:// bestuk . casino/not-on-gamstop/

another one

@L&L-Jan Yako is advertised on the site
@alexCashmio snap

and another

https:// zamsino . com/uk/casinos-not-on-gamstop/

with loads of accredited casinos listed on other pages

Think its a bit disappointing that only a few reps have commented and taken action, especially considering quite a few have read the thread.

 

[Nicola]

Was looking through Google AdWords to see which sites have the heaviest traffic on non-gamstop casinos and this bunch of sites alone had 10,000+ traffic in July 2019:

@L&L-Jan You have a lot of work to do on this lot!

https:// casinowizard.org/casinos-not-on-gamstop
https:// newcasinos-online.co.uk/casinos-not-on-gamstop
https:// pokerplayernewspaper.com/casinos-not-on-gamstop
https:// bestuk.casino/not-on-gamstop
https:// freespins-uk.co.uk/casinos-not-on-gamstop
https:// nonstopcasino.co.uk/non-gamstop-poker

Scumbag(s) of the year go to these guys who set-up dedicated web sites for this act:

https:// nongamstopcasinos.co.uk
https:// casinosnotongamstop.co.uk
https:// casinogap.co.uk

 

[EkJR]

It was meant to be, but the UKGC keep extending the deadline. There are only three casinos left that have not signed up.

Con********* have had nearly a year to implement the GAMSTOP check but have failed to do so. Since then its fairly common knowledge and a lot of people have given in to temptation. There are threads even on AG about the lack of SE.

I did check earlier and an account which is linked to GAMSTOP is still accessible so its still not in place.

I spoke to them as well last week whilst going through the final lists of casinos since the new verification rules.

They said "We have no intention of aligning with Gamstop until we have to". Take from that what you will. That said, the reason the UKGC arent insisting on Gamstop at this stage is that they are not happy with its current function and it has had bad press several times. I think only when Gamstop can prove they have fixed the ongoing 'technical problems' that they face regularly that the UKGC would be in a position to make it mandatory.

On the wider thread, this was expected at some stage and the same old casino names pop up that UK players are not legally able to play on but are accepted because these operators are utter scum(Bronze etc).

Good to see some of the operators here taking action and escalating against these scumbag affiliates. This should also be issued to the UKGC imo.

 

[Borgie]

I asked if they accepted players registered with GameStop and was told very clearly, if I register an account it would be immediately closed for life.

If they dont have gamstop how would they know to close account for life makes no sense.

 

[nutnut]

Laughable you think any if these casinos truly care. They want deposits not a moral life lesson.

I can guarantee bar 1 or 2 the majority will pretend it never existed.

 

[colinsunderland]

If they dont have gamstop how would they know to close account for life makes no sense.

She presumed I was registered with them by asking, and told me if I open an account, it will immediately be closed and will never be re-opened!

 

[EkJR]

She presumed I was registered with them by asking, and told me if I open an account, it will immediately be closed and will never be re-opened!

They are talking rubbish then. They are definitely not part of Gamstop and wont be until forced to be so. They must be picking up a lot of traffic from excluded players especially with Fruity Slots and some other openly advertising them.

 

[Borgie]

She presumed I was registered with them by asking, and told me if I open an account, it will immediately be closed and will never be re-opened!

So they rely on anyone who is signed up to Gamstop comtaving them and telling them and then they will close account ? Hmmm

 

[Nordog]

Actually made me abit sad that chipmunkz decided to promote them yesterday. But well.

 

[The Dude]

It is not so much about who is and who isn't on Gamstop - that is not the point. The point is that there are affiliates who target traffic that is searching for casinos that are not on Gamstop. That is the crux of this matter.

Everyone I have spoken to is shocked. This is utterly despicable and I really hope that some action is taken against this operation. I've been in this business for 21 years, and this is probably the worst case of moral corruption that I've seen.

Think its a bit disappointing that only a few reps have commented and taken action, especially considering quite a few have read the thread.

Actually, there are quite a few affiliate managers that I am in contact with elsewhere, and they are very responsive in this matter and are taking action. Just so you know.

 

[dunover]

It is not so much about who is and who isn't on Gamstop - that is not the point. The point is that there are affiliates who target traffic that is searching for casinos that are not on Gamstop. That is the crux of this matter.

Everyone I have spoken to is shocked. This is utterly despicable and I really hope that some action is taken against this operation. I've been in this business for 21 years, and this is probably the worst case of moral corruption that I've seen.


Actually, there are quite a few affiliate managers that I am in contact with elsewhere, and they are very responsive in this matter and are taking action. Just so you know.

I have to say this is my tenth year involved in online gaming and I too have never seen such a low reached by those motivated by greed. The UKGC are aware of this by the way and I hope that they warn their licensees of the consequences for having their casinos promoted by sites buying GamStop keywords and SEO which is a serious breach of RG rules. This really needs nipping in the bud or the fallout will inevitably filter down to the majority of decent affiliates and aff. programmes.

 

[Chipmonkz]

I was given clear assurances that they are in process of going on Gamstop and decided to promote them.
After reading this thread i have decided to remove them from all of my sites and wont work with them until this is sorted.
Lets hope its sorted sooner rather than later.

 

[Nordog]

I was given clear assurances that they are in process of going on Gamstop and decided to promote them.
After reading this thread i have decided to remove them from all of my sites and wont work with them until this is sorted.
Lets hope its sorted sooner rather than later.

That was a quick action man. Full respect for this fast decision. Cant wait to watch your daily video. Enjoy your weekend and good luck

 

[bamberfishcake]

I've been reading this thread with interest and not chipped in because it seems the big boys...and gals...are talking so thought I had better stay out (and still probably should) but surely the only response is to never ever work with these people at all? Kudos for taking them off of a list or whatever but these people are targeting human beings with serious problems.

Are they not targeting or praying on the weak for personal financial gain?

The general opinion might be that i am being a bit dramatic. Im also not going to claim to know enough this to say I might not be. Plus its nearly 5am and if not even had my morning coffee....however, as a punter, I wont knowingly go anywhere near these people or anyone associated with them from this point.

 

[sufferinsilence]

You're putting it mildly @bamberfishcake , these people that target people with serious gambling problems are just scumbags and we can only hope every single one of them loses all their affilliate deals.

 

[Nicola]

You're putting it mildly @bamberfishcake , these people that target people with serious gambling problems are just scumbags and we can only hope every single one of them loses all their affilliate deals.

Indeed

I've just watched Bryans latest video and in all the years I've followed him (15 years+) I've never known him to swear and be so pissed. This is the lowest of the low and glad this has been brought to light.

 

[EkJR]

I was given clear assurances that they are in process of going on Gamstop and decided to promote them.
After reading this thread i have decided to remove them from all of my sites and wont work with them until

That's good mate. I have contacted them again on the back of thread so hopefully they will see some sense. Decent enough casino but they need to understand the UK market and how RG plays a big part these days!

 

[EkJR]

I've been reading this thread with interest and not chipped in because it seems the big boys...and gals...are talking so thought I had better stay out (and still probably should) but surely the only response is to never ever work with these people at all? Kudos for taking them off of a list or whatever but these people are targeting human beings with serious problems.

Are they not targeting or praying on the weak for personal financial gain?

The general opinion might be that i am being a bit dramatic. Im also not going to claim to know enough this to say I might not be. Plus its nearly 5am and if not even had my morning coffee....however, as a punter, I wont knowingly go anywhere near these people or anyone associated with them from this point.

Put it this way mate, it's like standing outside a heroin addicts house with bags of gear! It is absolutely shocking behaviour

 

[Tirilej]

My thought is that it's a huge affiliate with many sites, because I doubt that the one targeting Swedish players listed on Spelstopp (Gamstop in Sweden) is Swedish. I got two different emails from the same affiliate yesterday. It goes to Starwarscasinos dot com.
It only list three casinos Bob, Spinia and Betamo.
In the text on their site which is in Swedish you can read that those sites are accredited and trustworthy at big sites such as Askgamblers and @ThePOGG
I don't know if the site is created just for those three casinos and Swedes because I can't get any further.
This is the email:

 

[BetBlocker]

I've got to be blunt on this - I could not agree more with those calling for the complete cessation of all contracts with the offending parties in this matter. Having them take down the content simply isn't enough. These businesses are parasite preying on human misery and suffering. Whether they stop now or not doesn't undo what they've done. They have made a clear statement about the type of business they are. What part of that particular reputation does any responsible operator want to associate with?

BB

 

[ThePOGG]

My thought is that it's a huge affiliate with many sites, because I doubt that the one targeting Swedish players listed on Spelstopp (Gamstop in Sweden) is Swedish. I got two different emails from the same affiliate yesterday. It goes to Starwarscasinos dot com.
It only list three casinos Bob, Spinia and Betamo.
In the text on their site which is in Swedish you can read that those sites are accredited and trustworthy at big sites such as Askgamblers and @ThePOGG

Hi Tirilej,

Can you please forward that email and the site url to me at [email protected]

I want to be very very clear about this - we have never "accredited" these operators. In fact, if you take the time to view our reviews of them we have them all Blacklisted due to various factors including - being unhappy with their complaint management, associations with other brands we find to be of a questionable nature and branding/marketing that we found to be entirely inappropriate.

We do serve as their ADR under their MGA license as we do for all properties on the N1 Interactive license (it's a white label license). We do not endorse or recommend these properties on that license to players in any way, shape or form.

End of derail.

Thanks,

TP

 

[Guntis]

My thought is that it's a huge affiliate with many sites, because I doubt that the one targeting Swedish players listed on Spelstopp (Gamstop in Sweden) is Swedish. I got two different emails from the same affiliate yesterday. It goes to Starwarscasinos dot com.
It only list three casinos Bob, Spinia and Betamo.
In the text on their site which is in Swedish you can read that those sites are accredited and trustworthy at big sites such as Askgamblers and @ThePOGG
I don't know if the site is created just for those three casinos and Swedes because I can't get any further.
This is the email:

The address 162 Edgware road, London which is at the bottom of your email is the address of Victoria casino in London.

 

[Tirilej]

Hi Tirilej,

Can you please forward that email and the site url to me at [email protected]

I want to be very very clear about this - we have never "accredited" these operators. In fact, if you take the time to view our reviews of them we have them all Blacklisted due to various factors including - being unhappy with their complaint management, associations with other brands we find to be of a questionable nature and branding/marketing that we found to be entirely inappropriate.

We do serve as their ADR under their MGA license as we do for all properties on the N1 Interactive license (it's a white label license). We do not endorse or recommend these properties on that license to players in any way, shape or form.

End of derail.

Thanks,

TP

I know you wouldn't list them as good, but I also know you wouldn't just let it go when your name is on their site
I've sent it to you so let me know if I can do anything more.

 

[ThePOGG]

I know you wouldn't list them as good, but I also know you wouldn't just let it go when your name is on their site

Apologies if the above came across as me thinking you did. I never thought that was the implication. I simply wanted to make clear for all our position so as to leave no possible doubt

TP

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Is now not the time to rogue Con******* Casino @Casinomeister @ThePOGG ?

As others have shown here, they have zero interest in ever adding GAMSTOP even though they are UKGC registered. When I told them my concerns that problem gamblers were signing up there (proof on TGC) they said it was not in their interest too.

Also as this thread as shown, they have active affiliates promoting them on dedicated non-GAMSTOP pages along with dubious advertising practices on Google AdWords.

I have a complaint going to UKGC regarding these guys. I noted Chip was starting to work with these guys but dropped them already, good on him.

They are a sham outfit and their verification process is corrupt as fuck.

I quoted UKGC terms that they cannot rely on one source of electronic verification yet the SAR they sent me clearly shows only one and the emails they sent me clearly say “verify your account” to me that says I am not verified yet they are adamant I was.

1. Wording in emails
From what I understand, your concern seems to focus on our use of the term 'verify. For clarity I never suggested that wording was intentionally misleading. What I actually said was that I am more than happy to take constructive criticism on-board and review against it, so we can continue to evolve our customer communications.

That was their official response when I said they are using misleading terminology. Not overly bothered by it I think you will all agree.

2. Electronic checks
We were able to check the details you entered at point of registration electronically to a level sufficient enough to allow you proceed to deposit.

Nothing here about actually gambling though. Which I was able to do before submitting the documentation discussed in section 1 above.

They claim docs were for AML/CDD, interesting really as I’d only made £150 of deposits.

 

[Louis]

Sorry for the late reply guys and gals!

I forwarded this to our affiliate managers straight away after I've been informed and they are investigating this particular affiliate.

 

[News Hound]

@CasumoLouis should you require further details, please send me a PM. As we have identified ourselves the affiliate behind ChoiceCasinos.com and other sites. Also hoping that @GentingAffiliates takes action against the same affiliate, especially as they are linking to one of his sites from the home page of their affiliate programme!!

 

[Nicola]

@L&L-Jan @LeoVegas Rep @LeoVegas Affiliates What is your stance on illegal movie download sites and torrents promoting your brands?

The reason I ask is that Fun Casino and LeoVegas are plastered all over the latest cinema releases on many torrent sites these days.

 

[colinsunderland]

@L&L-Jan @LeoVegas Rep @LeoVegas Affiliates What is your stance on illegal movie download sites and torrents promoting your brands?

The reason I ask is that Fun Casino and LeoVegas are plastered all over the latest cinema releases on many torrent sites these days.

You got an example film? Or do you mean an affiliate site is on them like the one above, which then has them?
I've never seen any casino, apart from 1xBet, directly advertised on a film. If they are directly on screen they must be paying for it, as theres no way of clicking, so no affiliate link.
Presumably they are on cams like the one above, as no scene member would allow that?

 

[Nicola]

Good.Boys.2019.720p.HDCAM-GETB8 is an example of a new release which is flooded with affiliate spam.

This all started after reading on another forum about someone who had their bank account emptied after joining a casino he saw on a movie and doing a little digging the majority of casinos are rogued here but just like every non-gamstop on this page FUN CASINO is linked everywhere.

I know promoting sex is a no no with affiliation but surely illegal downloads/copyright infringement isn't allowed either.

 

[Harry_BKK]

To be honest, I am aghast at the "faux outrage" in this thread. After all, we (including me) are all earning our income on the back of peoples' weaknesses, be it a regulated or unregulated site. We can admit that openly. Other industries are built on the same, so no big deal.

I would venture to say that there are plenty of unregulated casinos who treat their players better than regulated casinos and vice versa. Unregulated does not necessarily mean that they don't have a good RG procedure in place. IMO, the main difference is that the one side is paying taxes on their revenue and has to go through costly procedures while the other side evades all of that.

GAMSTOP is a "show project" for the regulators and industry to prove that they are doing something. It has so many deficiencies and loopholes that it is actually a farce, or better said, a piss in the face of problem gamblers because it gives them the feeling of security whereas it offers very little.

Some examples:

- Gaming operators have to sign-up to take part in the program, hence, GAMSTOP disregards all the rest which is the majority of online casinos.
- People can execute a SE for 6 months! Please show me one recovery program for any addiction where after six months the addict is considered "clean". Two years should be the absolute minimum if the regulators are serious about combatting gambling addiction.
- GAMSTOP puts the onus nicely on casino operators, yet signed-up players are not asked to do anything else after they execute a GAMSTOP period, e.g. joining GA or similar, putting someone in control of their finances, designate a trusted person (sibling, partner, spouse etc) to monitor the progress. They can go on gambling in any other way not covered by GAMSTOP. How is that gonna help an addict?
- GAMSTOP should come with a mandatory installation of blocking software that does not allow access or financial transactions to a gambling site, e.g. NetNanny or the like
- .... list by far not complete.

Anyone seeing GAMSTOP as more than just a tiny wheel of an entire program that would be needed to seriously protect addicts has his/her head up in cuckoo land.

As for the ethics aspect of the sites promoting a list of non-participating casinos, well, they found a "loophole" and are using it. Just shows one of the blatant weaknesses which the regulators allowed to exist (on purpose?). Has happened in the past and will happen again. We people are all opportunists.

 

[slot_zombie]

I have to say I don't quite understand why the unlicensed casinos listed in this thread need to operate in the way they do. Why lose each and every player, for the sake of not paying one withdrawal? Doesn't make much business sense.. If I were running one of those sites, I'd think it better to keep them happy and have them hopefully play it all back... the house always wins, right?

With Gamstop nearly in full force, they are potentially sitting on a goldmine if they treated their customers fairly, but no matter how desperate a gambler, a lot WILL be put off by the scam warnings all over the place. Still, from a RG point of view, I guess it's a good thing!

 

[dunover]

To be honest, I am aghast at the "faux outrage" in this thread. After all, we (including me) are all earning our income on the back of peoples' weaknesses, be it a regulated or unregulated site. We can admit that openly. Other industries are built on the same, so no big deal.

I would venture to say that there are plenty of unregulated casinos who treat their players better than regulated casinos and vice versa. Unregulated does not necessarily mean that they don't have a good RG procedure in place. IMO, the main difference is that the one side is paying taxes on their revenue and has to go through costly procedures while the other side evades all of that.

GAMSTOP is a "show project" for the regulators and industry to prove that they are doing something. It has so many deficiencies and loopholes that it is actually a farce, or better said, a piss in the face of problem gamblers because it gives them the feeling of security whereas it offers very little.

Some examples:

- Gaming operators have to sign-up to take part in the program, hence, GAMSTOP disregards all the rest which is the majority of online casinos.
- People can execute a SE for 6 months! Please show me one recovery program for any addiction where after six months the addict is considered "clean". Two years should be the absolute minimum if the regulators are serious about combatting gambling addiction.
- GAMSTOP puts the onus nicely on casino operators, yet signed-up players are not asked to do anything else after they execute a GAMSTOP period, e.g. joining GA or similar, putting someone in control of their finances, designate a trusted person (sibling, partner, spouse etc) to monitor the progress. They can go on gambling in any other way not covered by GAMSTOP. How is that gonna help an addict?
- GAMSTOP should come with a mandatory installation of blocking software that does not allow access or financial transactions to a gambling site, e.g. NetNanny or the like
- .... list by far not complete.

Anyone seeing GAMSTOP as more than just a tiny wheel of an entire program that would be needed to seriously protect addicts has his/her head up in cuckoo land.

As for the ethics aspect of the sites promoting a list of non-participating casinos, well, they found a "loophole" and are using it. Just shows one of the blatant weaknesses which the regulators allowed to exist (on purpose?). Has happened in the past and will happen again. We people are all opportunists.

There's no 'faux outrage' here at all. The bottom line is, you have people specifically aiming gambling at those who may be, or have been, in dire trouble through problematic expenditure. These people are no better than dealers who target schoolkids drugs, knowing that their activities are highly likely to mess their customer's lives up sooner or later. Or like people peddling fake vodka, a product made and sold outside the government's regulatory framework to avoid taxes and which has potentially life-changing health effects.

The pros and cons of the Gamstop system are not the issue at all, rather than the fact it's exposed some absolute scum who disgrace an industry that whilst isn't perfect is making efforts to assist the vulnerable in refraining from their habit. They're nothing more than amoral, greedy saboteurs who don't think regulation applies to them.