Affiliate Union

[suzecat]

Are you interested/involved in the online gaming industry and are pondering whether to keep your membership at Casinomeister?

FWIW, it would have taken just a few minutes of searching this board to discover that Gamtrak promotes rogue casinos. Would have saved a few eggs if that was done before she was presented as a founding member of an organization established as an affiliate union interested in fair play (gulp).


Anyone still pondering their membership here?

 

[swampwitch]

Hi all,

I'm not going the lay the boots into GamTrak.
She has been around long enough to know that both gamblingwages and Virtual Casino Group are at best doggy. At worst, clip joints that operate rogue casinos & sportsbooks. And webmasters should not touch them with a barge pole!

However I've made an observation that I feel most of you have overlooked. Or at least no one has posted about it.

As this thread was commenced on the AU topic, it's fitting to remind everyone that GamTrak was recommended as an Affiliate Union founding member to me by APCW Anthony.

However even after Gamtrak responded to Webzcas and admitted she was promoting a Virtual Casino Group casino, and all of the founding member of the AU coped it sideways...APCW Anthony didn't have the balls to post that he'd recommended GamTrak as a founding member of the AU.

That's why I ended up posting the entire story.

Surprisingly enough within 10 - 20 min of the AU details being made public by me, I receive a PM from APCW Anthony requesting a MSN chat and I also received an email too. Since then I've got several from APCW Anthothy.

Obviously tipped off by someone that he needed to get his butt over to the AU thread pronto.

If the truth be know, I'd bet he'd been there since GamTrak answered the VCG question.

I find it extremely funny and ironic that everyone is questioning GamTrak's ethics and integrity. But no one here (I've quit the GPWA so no idea what's been posted there) has bothered to raise any questions about the ethical part in which APCW Anthony played.

To me that sucks...


Cheers

Dave

You are absolutely correct. I've made my views known about "X and Y" across the street at the-place-that-shall-not-be-mentioned and haven't rehashed them here.
Answer...The APCW's 2 biggies and the GPWA are owned by you-know-who...GW cheerleaders all. Why wouldn't they insist Gamtrak, a mover and a shaker with a great big rep, be a "founder" when they see nothing wrong with GW anyway?
There's motives, and then there's motives. Do the math.

 

[AussieDave]

it would have taken just a few minutes of searching this board to discover that Gamtrak promotes rogue casinos. Would have saved a few eggs if that was done before she was presented as a founding member of an organization established as an affiliate union interested in fair play

I agree that this forum is a Pandora's box if you want to find info on someone

However, lets look at this in the exact and factual manner in which it was presented and also by whom this recommendation for GamTrak to be a founding member of the AU.

As an example...If CM's recommended something I doubt you or anyone else here would conduct a quick search to see if it's legit.

The same went for me when APCW recommended GamTrak as a founding member.

Hindsight is a great friend but reiterating...Although I questioned GamTrak's ability to keep her mouth in check, I didn't for one second question APCW Anthony's recommendation. Because like CM he's also well trusted.


Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

FWIW, it would have taken just a few minutes of searching this board to discover that Gamtrak promotes rogue casinos. Would have saved a few eggs if that was done before she was presented as a founding member of an organization established as an affiliate union interested in fair play (gulp).

As an (ex) founding member, I have to take my part of the resposibility for not checking out other founding members. I used to promote gambling wages myself a long time ago and it didn't occur to me that any founders would currently doing so.

Apologies and now I know better than to take something like this for granted.

 

[AussieDave]

Apologies and now I know better than to take something like this for granted.

I'm sorry that I didn't check too. But it's certainly given me a big wake up call. In future I wont be taking anyone's word on face value.


Cheers

Dave

 

[jas2587]

To be fair, Gamtrak has stated that when her media buy thingy with GW is up she won't be promoting them anymore.
Just putting that out there....

contracts can go on for years an years an years so...................
an lookin at her history with the rogue casino's .............

Cindy

 

[suzecat]

As an example...If CM's recommended something I doubt you or anyone else here would conduct a quick search to see if it's legit.

The same went for me when APCW recommended GamTrak as a founding member.Dave

Sure I would, especially if I had memory of involvement with rogues

 

[luckydabberbingo]

I agree that this forum is a Pandora's box if you want to find info on someone

However, lets look at this in the exact and factual manner in which it was presented and also by whom this recommendation for GamTrak to be a founding member of the AU.

As an example...If CM's recommended something I doubt you or anyone else here would conduct a quick search to see if it's legit.

The same went for me when APCW recommended GamTrak as a founding member.

Hindsight is a great friend but reiterating...Although I questioned GamTrak's ability to keep her mouth in check, I didn't for one second question APCW Anthony's recommendation. Because like CM he's also well trusted.


Cheers

Dave

Dave ,
I feel like I have pieces of the Puzzle until we get to see all the conversations and the spirit in which this offered was extended to you.
You are an active member of the affiliate community so I can understand why 'they' were looking to get someody like you to head it up.
Honestly when i seen the original post i assumed you came up with the idea
to start this and I think we were all surprised to see anthony ,Jtodd and GPWA mentioned.They have a big enough following they could support this on their own but they are obviously not neutral as the minute you take payments you cannot claim to be neutral on any program.
None of this makes sense to me right now unless plan B will be surfacing soon and we see a different color of paint on the wall

Judy

 

[jas2587]

Dave ,
I feel like I have pieces of the Puzzle until we get to see all the conversations and the spirit in which this offered was extended to you.
You are an active member of the affiliate community so I can understand why 'they' were looking to get someody like you to head it up.
Honestly when i seen the original post i assumed you came up with the idea
to start this and I think we were all surprised to see anthony ,Jtodd and GPWA mentioned.They have a big enough following they could support this on their own but they are obviously not neutral as the minute you take payments you cannot claim to be neutral on any program.
None of this makes sense to me right now unless plan B will be surfacing soon and we see a different color of paint on the wall

Judy

Integrity whom I think is J Todd has offered to produce his correspondence that pertains to all this except AussieDave resigned over at GPWA so how can all the pieces of the puzzle be displayed for all to see????

Cindy

 

[suzecat]

As an (ex) founding member, I have to take my part of the resposibility for not checking out other founding members. I used to promote gambling wages myself a long time ago and it didn't occur to me that any founders would currently doing so.

Apologies and now I know better than to take something like this for granted.

I'm sorry that I didn't check too. But it's certainly given me a big wake up call. In future I wont be taking anyone's word on face value.


Cheers

Dave

I joined this board years ago and yes, you will find my old posts touting the goodness of Virtual casinos

Being thick-skinned and stubborn (yes, it's true) it took CM and others a long damn time to prove to me the error of my ways.

RIP Lanidar.

So what I'd like to say, without stumbling any longer, is that as difficult as it may seem to accept there are people in this biz who will take advantage for personal gain, it is unfortunately very true.

IMO free will can be a double-edged sword (just keep your hiney out of the way and your ducks in a row ...............

 

[Auditor]

I did in fact recommend Gamtrak. My recommendation was based on her character and her activity in the forums. I did not review her site. I did not ask any qualifying questions. I just thought she would fight for affiliates rights. I am sorry it was an issue. Don't blame Robin, it is my fault she was involved.
I did not mean to put Dave in a bad situation by it. My apologies to Dave and to rest of the AU gang.

~ Anthony

 

[unicorn40]

You recommended her based on her character and her activity in the forums??
Then you must have known the crap casinos etc. that she has promoted for years....?

 

[AussieDave]

Integrity whom I think is J Todd has offered to produce his correspondence that pertains to all this except AussieDave resigned over at GPWA so how can all the pieces of the puzzle be displayed for all to see????

The only correspondence I had with JTodd regarding the AU was over on Facebook on the 6'th September 2009.

I'm happy to post that here if CasinoMeister (it's his forum) and Integrity (JTodd) is in agreement for me to do so.

Hell I'm happy post everything here between myself, APCW Anthony and Michael.

But I ain't posting jack at the GPWA.


Cheers

Dave

 

[JHV]

To be fair, Gamtrak has stated that when her media buy thingy with GW is up she won't be promoting them anymore.
Just putting that out there....

And after I finish robbing the last 2 of my 10 planned banks in my target area, I'm not going to do armed robbery anymore.

Just putting that out there.

 

[AussieDave]

Don't blame Robin, it is my fault she was involved.

Just your fault?

But you told me that you and JTodd had discussed the AU and its set-up. Or has the clique now elected (cough...told) you to be the fall guy

Or worse did you just tell me JTodd was involved in these discussions, when he wasn't?


Dave

 

[Pinababy69]

I really don't like the way this thing has all gone down.Robin was at least willing to put her time and effort into trying to make this work.Now it is just a bashing session against her.If we have to rogue every casino site and portal who has gambling wages on their site there wont be many of us left.

What's that old joke....what do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? Punchline....a good start. Getting rid of each and every affiliate and webmaster who INSIST on promoting GW and all the other Virtual shitholes would be a great start to cleaning up this industry IMO. And no offense intended to any lawyers who may read this....just quoting an old joke.

As to Gamtrak in particular...I do agree that this topic/thread shouldn't be focused solely on her/her involvement. I see a whole lot of other things at play here.

You are absolutely correct. I've made my views known about "X and Y" across the street at the-place-that-shall-not-be-mentioned and haven't rehashed them here.
Answer...The APCW's 2 biggies and the GPWA are owned by you-know-who...GW cheerleaders all. Why wouldn't they insist Gamtrak, a mover and a shaker with a great big rep, be a "founder" when they see nothing wrong with GW anyway?
There's motives, and then there's motives. Do the math.

I couldn't agree more Swamp. It's really becoming clear to me that this is less about Gamtrak, and much more about motivation. And fear of any organization that doesn't accept money for sponsorship, paid advertisement, etc. That is most definitely seen as a threat to the "common good", which is making money. Nothing wrong with making money, as long as it's done in an ethical manner. What I'm really seeing here is a desire to have a complete monopoly on the affiliate market, and how business is conducted.

My recommendation was based on her character and her activity in the forums.

Her character? Dear God Lisa, bite your tongue, bite your tongue, bite your tongue. Sit on your hands...okay, better now.

The only correspondence I had with JTodd regarding the AU was over on Facebook on the 6'th September 2009.

I'm happy to post that here if CasinoMeister (it's his forum) and Integrity (JTodd) is in agreement for me to do so.

Hell I'm happy post everything here between myself, APCW Anthony and Michael.

But I ain't posting jack at the GPWA.


Cheers

Dave

I just read your posts over "yonder" Dave. Ha...that's about all I can say. Pretty clear to me you put someone's nose out of joint. It's like you're the good cop in the precinct full of dirty ones, who refuses to take the kickbacks that all the others take every month. One word comes to mind....Pariah. That's you...or will be, if you don't keep quiet. Shhhhhh...... are ya scared yet? It's too bad that some have to rip you down for trying to do something "real", and God forbid....for NO money. Imagine. The nerve of you. Don't you know you're upsetting the apple cart, and throwing the universe out of whack? Bad, bad Dave.

I really hope you guys succeed with this (and you shouldn't drop out Dave). There is no better revenge than success. Remember that.

 

[AussieDave]

Anthony,

As I no longer visit, much less post at the GPWA, this is place (unless you visit the place over yonder) is where I'll be posting.

Given that fact...I have no other way of asking you to please stop emailing me.

I'm not interested.

Anything that needs to be said to me by you can be said in public. If you can't do that then it probably shouldn't be said at all.


Dave

 

[triple777s]

I am sorry if what i am about to say pisses anybody off, but what the F**k!

Do you see how screwed up our industry is? This whole project was supposed to be something GOOD, HELPFUL for ALL Affiliates, but look at what has become of it, in what...a day or two?

Jesus Christ no wonder we can't get a F**king thing accomplished in the business, everyone is out to make a freaking soap opera!

Ok, So Gamtrak promotes rogue programs, I am sure there are others here that also do it to, we just don't check every single site, hell i probably still have some up if you go back far enough in my archives, and what about Casino City? I still have a BIG problem that they still have links for Grand Prive Casinos up? Regardless of the "reason" they give, it still stinks, but that seems to be ok with everyone. There are soooo many rogue groups out there, I am sure everyone has a list of who "they" think is rogue and others don't....so just drop the tar and feathering of Robin, and get to the real subject here,

Why doesn't this industry accomplish anything good? Because the minute someone takes an initiative, it gets shot down, dramatized, lied about..etc. Unless of course the person starting the new endeavor is one of the "Lord Affiliates or Webmasters" that can DO NO F**KING WRONG.!!

This all Stinks, and I am so sick of people ripping each other, whats that saying.....

Let the one cast the first stone...etc..etc..etc..

 

[mrracetrack]

This is posted on the APCW site...

Gold Sponsors:

400 Affiliates
Doyle Brunson Poker Network
Gambling Wages

This is AFTER J.Todd had his "infamous" meeting in Costa Rica with Gambling Wages Affiliate manager Robert Green... and AFTER J.Todd admitted that all the promises made (on his video webcast) by GW to pay outstanding monies owed to winning players had NOT been kept.

Still "Gold Sponsors" on your site, Anthony & J. Todd??

Not surprising really... money talks... bullshit walks.

 

[chalkie]

I am getting from this thread that people see the direction that we as a union are heading in as good and that we will be supported.

I would like to take some heat from the topic and ask that people support the union and it endeavours.

I do believe that all organisations involved in fighting the bad in our industry are there to do so, however, also look to earn in the process. This will always promote a feeling of distrust to varied extent.

I cannot knock people for earning money from this industry and until now there has been no 1 person prepared to fight the enemy without making a buck off the back of it.

This until now has been the norm in this and most online industrys.

It is now clear that making money as a sideline from an organisation that is trying to fight the bad guys within is fraught with issues.

This is the reasoning behind the union and why we will not give up and let people down.

The union will have to work with the existing organisations in many ways in the future and this will be beneficial for the union and affiliates in the longterm.

Time is nigh for supporting anyone that can and will make a difference to the industry issues.

The time is not right for organisations to fight each other, the time is right to be united and conquer.

 

[swampwitch]

The time is not right for organisations to fight each other, the time is right to be united and conquer.

Wal-Mart
Bell Telephone
Haliburton

Beware of big umbrellas. Sometimes the one holding the handle kicks you into the acid rain.

 

[spearmaster]

Dear God Lisa, bite your tongue, bite your tongue, bite your tongue. Sit on your hands...okay, better now.

You're not the bite your tongue type... why turn over a new leaf now?

I'm trying my best to stay out of this entire conversation, but I will admit one thing - I was one of the first to take Gambling Wages/Cool Cat on many years ago... but that was before anyone established that GW was part of the Virtual Group, plus someone I thought I could trust was working there.

I also took a chance with Casino Extreme, part of the Warren Cloud group, but under very strong conditions - and to their credit, not a single issue happened while I promoted them.

There are sometimes good reasons to give someone a chance to prove themselves. Sadly, sometimes people don't grasp that opportunity - and both of these groups had a very short stay on my site. But experiences like these made it doubly important that I (and Casinomeister as well) knew who the top management was before we ever took on an operator after that.

Sorry for the derail.

 

[casinojack]

I am getting from this thread that people see the direction that we as a union are heading in as good and that we will be supported.

I would like to take some heat from the topic and ask that people support the union and it endeavours.

I do believe that all organisations involved in fighting the bad in our industry are there to do so, however, also look to earn in the process. This will always promote a feeling of distrust to varied extent.

I cannot knock people for earning money from this industry and until now there has been no 1 person prepared to fight the enemy without making a buck off the back of it.

This until now has been the norm in this and most online industrys.

It is now clear that making money as a sideline from an organisation that is trying to fight the bad guys within is fraught with issues.

This is the reasoning behind the union and why we will not give up and let people down.

The union will have to work with the existing organisations in many ways in the future and this will be beneficial for the union and affiliates in the longterm.

Time is nigh for supporting anyone that can and will make a difference to the industry issues.

The time is not right for organisations to fight each other, the time is right to be united and conquer.

Any UNION I have ever seen is supported financially by the members of the union, ie, "union dues".

If you all can get that figured out, then a charter, then the agreement with the ops....Won't be easy but I wish you all well...

 

[johnsteed]

Awesome quote...

***

Thanks for trying. It can be done, I know it can. It is just going to take the "right" kind of people behind it.

Exactly! :notworthy



Steed

***

 

[lots0]

....And fear of any organization that doesn't accept money for sponsorship, paid advertisement, etc. That is most definitely seen as a threat to the "common good", which is making money. Nothing wrong with making money, as long as it's done in an ethical manner. What I'm really seeing here is a desire to have a complete monopoly on the affiliate market, and how business is conducted.

BINGO.... we have a winner.

 

[swampwitch]

I would have thanked the above, but my Thanks button seems to be gone.

 

[unicorn40]

Mine is too.LOL

 

[gloria460]

I would have thanked the above, but my Thanks button seems to be gone.

Oh thank you for saying that. I thought I had been bad and my button was taken away from me

 

[gloria460]

AU

It seems embarrassing to admit this but I never knew how affliates earned money until a month ago when I was looking at becoming an affliate. I thought that they were just paid a percentage from players that deposited.

I also believe that it's a very good idea to have an AU where money is not taken, issues are dealt with regarding players and affliates alike. I don't see how you can separate the two.

Aussie Dave I haven't had much convo with you but I read a lot of your post and I think that you're one of the upstanding guys here on this forum. I truly believe you should reconsider and help with the AU. I've also bookmarked your site.

 

[AussieDave]

BINGO.... we have a winner.

One of the reasons why the Affiliate Union was to be run autonomously. To prevent the AU being used in a monopoly.

This monopoly scenario played out a lot sooner than mojo; chalkie; greek39 or I or imagined.

If you happen to visit the place over yonder you'll certainly know what I talking about.

I thought it maybe useful to post our Charter and other Operational Protocols here, just in case people missed it over at the GPWA.

PROTOCOL
Overview
Online Gambling Affiliates expect a certain set of working conditions when agreeing to partner with Online Casino Affiliate Programs. The Affiliate Union (AU) is designed to reinforce and strive for fairness and honesty in the Online Gambling Affiliate Industry. The AU will focus on the challenges that face Affiliates today including Term and Condition changes, Timely Payments, Tracking and Reporting, Praise and Appreciation, Ethical Accountability and other issues of importance.


Objective
The Affiliate Union claims the right to organize. Affiliate Union members are voluntary Affiliate Members with no obligation. Affiliate Union Members are required to be active Online Gambling Affiliates. As issues arise, Members are asked to vote. The results are then published on the AU website. The goal is to educate and bring awareness of issues facing Gambling Affiliates via the AU website, Press Releases and other media outlets.

Action
The AU is a service given freely and without profit. All members have the right to seek assistance from the AU in addressing issues that affect the individual affiliate. Matters such as these will be handled on a one to one basis. If the same issue is raised by other AU members to the same affiliate program, this matter will be brought to the attention of all AU Affiliate peers.


CHARTER
The Affiliate Union is a group of gambling affiliate webmasters who have joined together with common goals to address key issues swiftly and efficiently in relation to the business of marketing within the online gambling industry. The Affiliate Union is comprised solely of affiliates who will speak collectively as one voice. Although not a forum, the Affiliate Union members shall have the full right to vote on matters such as affiliate program policies, terms and conditions, and non payment issues.

The creation of the Affiliate Union was prompted by a desire to better our industry standards with collective bargaining. Affiliate Union members will take swift and immediate action for the common good. This may include campaigns, lobbying, and requests for action ensuring economic justice for all affiliates.

Financial Disclaimer:
The Affiliate Union and its Founding Members receive no monetary gain, nor do they accept gifts and/or gratuities. Material published at the Affiliate Union is distributed for free without profit. Banner placement and/or media buys are prohibited.

If necessary, The Affiliate Union reserves the right to request donations from affiliate members only. Donations will only be accepted from Affiliate Union members. Commercial entities are strictly prohibited from any form of financial transactions to Affiliate Union in order to preserve a conflict-free environment.



Cheers

Dave

 

[Nandakishore]

I understand that AU has been now renamed to GAU (Gambling Affiliates Union). I only hope it doesn't turn out to be German GAU (grter anzunehmender Unfall - in English: maximum credible accident, like in Chernobyl).

I agree that we as affiliates should not do business with rogue casinos, but I am also somewhat concerned about a union which wants to determine for its members what is rogue and what is not. For me, rogue casinos must be condemned but not with the help of fundamentalistic attitudes.

 

[AussieDave]

I understand that AU has been now renamed to GAU (Gambling Affiliates Union).

I contacted mojo yesterday on the pretext of asking if she wanted the affiliteunion.org domain. Although I was told that chalkie and her were looking at starting up a new union, I was not informed that they had already registered a domain for this purpose.

Due to a 3 month limbo on transferring the AU domain I was asked by mojo if I'd mind redirecting it until such time as it could be transferred. I've yet to respond. Because since that and on comments posted here and at other places, I'm now thinking about reopening the AU.

Dave did a great job handling things the way he felt was right. However, I do have my own independant feelings on some things. Maybe it'll go better next time

What do they say...Two is company three is a crowd!

I wanted the AU to just stick to looking after gambling affiliates. I didn't think it was appropriate to also have the AU conduct affiliate program audits. For the same reason why the Affiliate Union would not display banners or accept sponsorship. My vision was to keep the AU impartial.

However as I'm sure most can appreciate people who are passionate about topics that the AU would be lobbying against, tend to have strong personalities. And frankly the AU was going somewhere I didn't want it going.

So maybe things happen for a reason after all.

If I am to re-commence the AU, it would definitely be myself at the helm.

I am also somewhat concerned about a union which wants to determine for its members what is rogue and what is not.

Not sure what your talking about here Nandakishore. It was never my idea or that of the AU to "determine for its members what is rogue and what is not."

Would you mind posting where you got this notion from?
If it's come from the GPWA, I'm no longer a member and will not visit that site any more. So if it's not too much trouble would you mind posting it here?


Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

I contacted mojo yesterday on the pretext of asking if she wanted the affiliteunion.org domain. Although I was told that chalkie and her were looking at starting up a new union, I was not informed that they had already registered a domain for this purpose.

It's no secret Paul and I were trying to continue the vision we felt passionatly about. We posted such many many times. Of course we needed a new domain since you shut the AU down.

If I am to re-commence the AU, it would definitely be myself at the helm.

I guess that squashes the GAU. Paul and I were trying to carry on after you closed down that AU. We did not want the AU closed down. I thought the AU was donated to all of us founders. At this point it's best I go on my way.

Oh well, best of luck to you.

 

[AussieDave]

I thought the AU was donated to all of us founders.

The domain was donated to the AU. But as I was the head of the Affiliate Union then it's my choice where it goes. And besides the registered office of the AU in the t&c's is my mailing my address. The domain whois also uses my details.

Without holding any punches, although founding members had an equal say in how the Affiliate Union operated, I never disillusioned anyone that I was always at the helm.

Every founding member that I asked to take on a founding position was told from the get go that I headed the AU.

I believe everyone has a right to speak their mind. That also included using a democratic voting system.

However at the AU (like any other organisation) there were going to be times when motions were not in the best interests of either the Affiliate Union &/or that of its members.

The affiliate program audits are a prime example of this.

Although I believe it's a much needed resource, the AU is ill equipped, untrained and under staffed to provide such a service. It also goes against keeping the AU at arms length from the industry.

I would rather see someone like Andy at AGD take on this role. I personally think his organisation could handle this service far better than the AU.

Hence the reason I was never impressed with the idea and was opposing it.

And while we're on that topic just so nothing comes back to try and bite my backside...

I see that the matter of auditing was added into the AU Overview. Although I was totally wacked out on pain killers at the time (due to my herniated disk) I must have missed that. Still that's no excuse on my part and I should have taken more care.

"The AU will focus on the challenges that face Affiliates today including Term and Condition changes, Timely Payments, Tracking and Reporting, Praise and Appreciation, Ethical Accountability and other issues of importance. "

No I think back to when the topic of auditing affiliate program software came into discussion.

Both yourself and chalkie were adamant this was a great idea. In fact chalkie had been contacted by CasinoJack (who you both were affiliates for) and asked if we'd consider working with them to veto their back-end.

I tried to put over my views of why this should not take place but you two were convinced it was a good idea.

Even when it was first introduced into discussion it was kept very hush hush. Hell I wasn't even told who the affiliate manager was. All I got was...he's respected in the industry and runs trusted casinos (or something to that affect).

When pushed for a name I'm told CasinoJack.

When asked for his real name I got a...I don't know his real name.

At that point I thought I'd throw in a curve ball...Just to see why you guys were so chuffed that we should jump on board with CasinoJack (even though you could not tell me his real name). That curve ball was...What will the AU get out of this?

Not long after that the GamTrak news broke.

So I never did get a response that I'm aware of.

In closing if you and chalkie want to start a union go for it, don't let me or the AU stand in your way.


Cheers

Dave

 

[chalkie]

Dave, i did not want to have confrontation with you, however, i would have never accepted a position at the AU as a puppet.

I was at the AU as a founding member of what was to be an organisation that had a complete and utter open policy.

The AU was to be 1 vote 1 member, so where does that put you as the man at the helm?

Where does that make place for a person to have a control over its decisions?

I think you had 1 thing in mind and 1 set of rules and they differred massively.

This was not your baby, however, the baby of others such as Paula and myself! You chose to kill it not us and we chose to continue.

I firmly believe that you chose to kill it for a while when you could see that we were not prepared to allow you complete control, i also feel that you always intended to resurect it once we were out of the frame.

I am happy to listen to what you have to say on this, however, i will need some convincing otherwise!

If 1 person is running an org like this how can the members have the vote? How can the members feel that they are setting their own destiny when in reality, you will want the final say?

I feel that regards to the domain and the set up of the organisation, that the person who donated it should be the person who chooses where the domain belongs.

I do not think that you can just choose what happens to the domain and keep any trust by doing so!

 

[chalkie]

I would like to add that i have had no conversation with the person who donated the domain and have no ida which way they will turn if they choose to comment at all.

I have not even conversed with anyone else other than Paula about this subject either.

 

[chalkie]

and with reference to the facts about Casino Jack, i asked for his permission to disclose to the AU founders his questions and names.

I asked for views on the subject nothing more

I did not say that we had to do anything

i did say it was an idea and that we could consider the subject matter

nothin g more!

Why?

Because we were supposedly an organisation that discussed the way we worked, i was not at that point under the impression that you were my boss!

 

[greek39]

If you need company Dave I will be there no question. All I ask is to leave the AU open no matter what happens. Need some weight behind it, I definitely have some although it may not be super tanker affiliates rather super talented non-affiliate Internet Specialists. I would like to put Grand Prive first on the agenda for more reasons than the obvious. Hammer them hard because the are no deals between Lions and Men. We shall make them the example. We can do it if my years have shown me anything.

No sense in chasing too many rabbits because we will lose focus. Lobbying yes, pull out the picket signs hire a 100+ peopleleave the rest up to your imagination. I am up for almost anything the BS must and will change. About time we change our approach when dealing with theft. Kick them where it hurts most their wallet.

And yes everyone should be welcome to join. I would also keep the originating founders and that would include Gamtrak. Most have a little dirt on our hands what difference would it make.

Just a Proposal



greek39

 

[mojo]

No I think back to when the topic of auditing affiliate program software came into discussion.

Both yourself and chalkie were adamant this was a great idea. In fact chalkie had been contacted by CasinoJack (who you both were affiliates for) and asked if we'd consider working with them to veto their back-end.

I tried to put over my views of why this should not take place but you two were convinced it was a good idea.

Even when it was first introduced into discussion it was kept very hush hush. Hell I wasn't even told who the affiliate manager was. All I got was...he's respected in the industry and runs trusted casinos (or something to that affect).

When pushed for a name I'm told CasinoJack.

When asked for his real name I got a...I don't know his real name.

Dave,

As with all suggestions given to us by anyone, we listen, discuss and decide. We discussed this suggestion by casinojack who was only trying to help. It was not written in stone and we did not even vote on it. Only discussing it. If I had known it upset you so much we would have put it on a shelf for now.

I do know cj's name and have known it for some time but you didn't give me time to answer.

 

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

For the record the AU required a wordpress theme. My CC was maxed and I asked mojo to purchase it.

I have now returned the wordpress theme to mojo via zip file.

Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

Hi all,

For the record the AU required a wordpress theme. My CC was maxed and I asked mojo to purchase it.

I have now returned the wordpress theme to mojo via zip file.

Cheers

Dave

Thanks Dave. I will keep an eye out. I don't see it yet.

For the record and as one of the founding members, I feel the domain should be voted on by the person who donated it and the other founding members on who should retain it.

That's it for me for now.

Good luck.

 

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

I don't wish to enter into disparaging hit match with anyone.

I just want all the facts out in the open. I think people have a right to know all the facts, don't you?

It was after all non disclosure that brought the AU into contention in the first place.

---------

here is the email headers sent:

Reply-To: "Raw Funk - David" <[email protected]>
From: "Raw Funk - David" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: AU wordpress theme
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:05:04 +0930
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01CA34F8.EB80A1D0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
Disposition-Notification-To: "Raw Funk - David" <[email protected]>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CA34F8.EB80A1D0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01CA34F8.EB80A1D0"


------=_NextPart_001_0005_01CA34F8.EB80A1D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Paula,

Please find attached the zip file containing the original word press
theme that you purchased for the AU.

I'm sorry things turned out this way but it's obvious now that none of
us could work together on this projected.


Cheers

Dave

---------



Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

OOp forgot, I will need to retain all that was written by me Dave. Please do not use it. Thank you.

 

[bb28]

He said, she said .......what a nasty mess is being played out here from something that was supposed to be a good thing.


No wonder people get cynical.

 

[chalkie]

As i said Dave, i do not want a battle with you either, however, you have not replied to my mails or questions, you never told me about the AU being closed down, but waited till i went to bed and posted such on the GPWA! That was not the best breakfast i ever did have!

I am confused to say the least and only have 1 aim, that is to make an organisation that is correct and for the good!

I wish you nothing but well.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: Remain on topic or start a new thread

Just a polite reminder - please feel free to begin another thread dealing with any other aspect of the AU. This thread has the probability to become a monster in length, and I just want to make a preemptive strike to keep things organized. Thanks!

 

[AussieDave]

For the record and as one of the founding members, I feel the domain should be voted on by the person who donated it and the other founding members on who should retain it.

I've just said that I'm considering re-opening the AU.

The domain (affiliateunion.org) was donated to me for the purpose of commencing the Affiliate Union.

As you and chalkie have announced that you are forming the Gambling Affiliates Union, then by this fact you have both denounced any claims to your previous founding membership AU appointments.

I wish you both all the best with the GAU.


Cheers

Dave

Edit: Sorry CM I was still writing and did not see your post.
If you'd like more these other issues about the AU to another thread I'd certainly appreciate it. I'm sure we all would, thank you.

 

[chalkie]

Dave you know full well why we purchased the GAU domain

What were i supposed to do?

You did not respond to me and i was not about to let the idea die!

How was we to resurect the Union when we had not got the domain?

We have not renounced our membership to the AU, you locked us out of the forum after you chose to close it!

In retort, i say you renounced all claim by your actions.

CM, i am not clear by your statement whether we are supposed to start a new thread on the conversations between me and dave or if any other AU conversations should be the start of a new thread. Sorry if i have posted this in the wrong place.

I've just said that I'm considering re-opening the AU.

The domain (affiliateunion.org) was donated to me for the purpose of commencing the Affiliate Union.

As you and chalkie have announced that you are forming the Gambling Affiliates Union, then by this fact you have both denounced any claims to your previous founding membership AU appointments.

I wish you both all the best with the GAU.


Cheers

Dave

Edit: Sorry CM I was still writing and did not see your post.
If you'd like more these other issues about the AU to another thread I'd certainly appreciate it. I'm sure we all would, thank you.

 

[The Dude]

...
CM, i am not clear by your statement whether we are supposed to start a new thread on the conversations between me and dave or if any other AU conversations should be the start of a new thread. Sorry if i have posted this in the wrong place.

No worries - I was just trying to let everyone know that these threads have the tendency to snowball into several topics. I just wanted to nip it in the bud before I (or one of the mods) have to start splitting threads at a later date.

 

[Webzcas]

I have just posted this on the GPWA:

I am quite taken aback at how the threads here on the GPWA and also CasinoMeister have spiralled out of control though. It is quite clear that regardless of good intentions the Affiliate Union and the process and design in it's being have not been thought out properly. As evidenced by some of the conspiracy theories and other comments posted across both boards.

Furthermore I have posted the following on my own forum:

The affiliate community needs to come together and act in unison. In my opinion starting up yet another organisation will fragment the affiliate community in this industry. Much in the same way there are now alphabet soup versions of the boxing world title organisations.

So what would I do?

I would use the current organisations out there and get them to work together as closely as possible. In my opinion Affiliate Guard Dog is the only such organisation purely for affiliates that is completely black and white in it's objectives.

The AGD does exactly what it says on the tin. It reports on terms and conditions changes of all the main affiliate programs. Nothing more, nothing less. ALL affiliates and would be affiliates should bookmark the site and check in at least once a week.

To add to this. All affiliate communities including CAP should be coming together and acting in tandem to tackle head on the programs who have stepped out of line. But the chances of that happening are slight at this point in time. As demonstrated by the posts in this thread and elsewhere

/derail

As a footnote, Gambling Wages are no longer listed as a sponsor of the GPWA or the APCW. So the saying every cloud has a silver lining rings true in this case