Affiliate Club's T&Cs problem

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dominique

Dormant account
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Jul 5, 2003
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Well, all this stuff going on with Casino Club is cause for affiliates to proceed with caution. However, for those who would rather not deal with controversial places and want to pull Casino Club, Affiliate Club, the marketing arm, sprung an unannounced nasty surprise.

In the still of night and without any announcement they added a quota to their affiliate T&Cs. So, if affiliates decide they do not want to send their players to Casino Club anymore, they are punished by having monies already earned withheld. :eek2:
 
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Casinomeister

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Location
Bierland
Well, all this stuff going on with Casino Club is cause for affiliates to proceed with caution. However, for those who would rather not deal with controversial places and want to pull Casino Club, Affiliate Club, the marketing arm, sprung an unannounced nasty surprise.

In the still of night and without any announcement they added a quota to their affiliate T&Cs. So, if affiliates decide they do not want to send their players to Casino Club anymore, they are punished by having monies already earned withheld. :eek2:
Yes the new terms suck - especially for the small webmaster. I received a response from John about this yesterday, and I'm not too satisfied with this. In essence, they claim that they are protecting their business and a lot of other companies are doing the same thing.

:what:

Not good.

Chris? any input here??
 

winbig

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Location
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In essence, they claim that they are protecting their business and a lot of other companies are doing the same thing.

I have to echo the :what: as well...

How are they protecting their business? They owe the money, plain and simple. If an affiliate doesn't want to promote their brands anymore, then fine. Pay them what's due up to that point and time, then void the contract and part ways. Everybody walks away whole.

In "protecting their business" using these tactics, they're only driving it further into the ground. Are they taking tips from Grand Prive`?
 

NextToYou

Experienced Member
webmeister
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Location
Europe
If all the industry leading sites (incs. Casinomeister) don't act strongly and properly against these predatory term changes, they may indeed become more popular among operators. There has been tries to force these lately more than ever. That's why I'd like to see strong cooperation between these industry leading sites (GPWA, CM, AGD etc) in these cases to protect affiliates when clearly rogue behaviour is happening, even though they wouldn't have impact on CM's business (enough many new players monthly). If term is not reverted and still CM keeps Affiliate Club / Casino Club accredited, I personally start to consider CM slightly rogue too and so will many other affiliates for sure.

Of course I hope for the only reasonable solution - reversing this term quickly.
 

pokeraddict

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It seems like a no brainer to just simply stop promoting them and say screw it. If you get many big affiliates together and they drop them then it will hit them where it hurts and will make other programs think before they screw you.
 

Casinomeister

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If all the industry leading sites (incs. Casinomeister) don't act strongly and properly against these predatory term changes, they may indeed become more popular among operators. There has been tries to force these lately more than ever. That's why I'd like to see strong cooperation between these industry leading sites (GPWA, CM, AGD etc) in these cases to protect affiliates when clearly rogue behaviour is happening, even though they wouldn't have impact on CM's business (enough many new players monthly). If term is not reverted and still CM keeps Affiliate Club / Casino Club accredited, I personally start to consider CM slightly rogue too and so will many other affiliates for sure.

Of course I hope for the only reasonable solution - reversing this term quickly.
I agree with the beginning of your statement where you mention that websites need to act strongly. But the thing is, I'm waiting for further information on this - I'm giving them a chance to take a second look at these terms. It has nothing to do if it affects my business or not. If you're wrong, you're wrong.
 

dominique

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Location
The Boonies
I have blacklisted them.

Just the quota alone is a no-no. In conjunction with current player complaints it becomes very unpalatable. It suggests that webmasters better not act in player's interest lest they themselves lose their earnings.

Affiliate Guard Dog does not approve of programs that use quotas and marks them predatory. And I agree.

I strongly suggest people stay away from programs that have quotas. It insures that only larger affiliates ever get paid.

The great, great majority of programs does not use quotas, no reason to throw your hard earned money away.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
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Yes the new terms suck - especially for the small webmaster. I received a response from John about this yesterday, and I'm not too satisfied with this. In essence, they claim that they are protecting their business and a lot of other companies are doing the same thing.

:what:

Not good.

Chris? any input here??


John's response to me on GPWA was " These terms are here to stay"

He further went on to say TRUST HIM.

How can we trust Affiliate Club? They have just pulled the rug under from many an affiliates feet by introducing these predatory and retroactive terms.

I feel sorry for the affiliate managers who work there and I am also sure John is only following a directive from up top. But these terms stink and as such I have rogued them and their properties.

If this is allowed to go unchecked, with the demise of CAP, what is to stop the new body GAP :what: pushing similar term changes through?
 

Webzcas

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I have blacklisted them.

Just the quota alone is a no-no. In conjunction with current player complaints it becomes very unpalatable. It suggests that webmasters better not act in player's interest lest they themselves lose their earnings.

Affiliate Guard Dog does not approve of programs that use quotas and marks them predatory. And I agree.

I strongly suggest people stay away from programs that have quotas. It insures that only larger affiliates ever get paid.

The great, great majority of programs does not use quotas, no reason to throw your hard earned money away.

Dom, if you want a link on my affiliate club rogue page: Outdated URL (Invalid)

and also a link on the discussion concerning my roguing of them here:

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Let me know.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
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Location
Hell on Earth
I'll blacklist them too.

some people think I'm a hard ass (or just an ass) because I won't promote a lot of programs out there... This is exactly why I won't.

Once a crook... Always a crook... People that forget that get burnt.

Better to have NEVER dealt with these ripoff jerks or others like them in the first place than to have to submit to their strong arm gangster tactics once they have control of your money.
 

dominique

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Joined
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Location
The Boonies
I have not blacklisted programs for having quotas before, I just avoided them and helped publicise to affiliates that this was the case.

Just this time I finally realized how this has a bad effect on players and the industry, not just affs.

It will have direct impact on the decisions some affiliates will make regarding removing a program due to player problems. If the affiliate does this, earnings for past services performed are automatically forfeited.

This realization puts the whole quota thing in a different light and makes it universally harmful.
 

Casinomeister

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Just an FYI that they were pulled off of the Accredited Section yesterday. This has mostly to do with the recent player issues and their lax responses.

The affiliate matter is separate - but they would have been removed from the site just the same.

Let's hope that they will come to understand that they really need to get their act together and start listening instead of "doing."
 

Casinomeister

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Admin note: in case you were wondering...

In case you're wondering where this thread came from, it was in the Casinomeister's Accredited Affiliate Program's section - which is a closed section except for registered webmasters and i-Gaming reps. But since the Casino lost its accreditation yesterday - the aff program went with it. Thus this has been moved to the public webmaster arena.
 

wangpoker

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This realization puts the whole quota thing in a different light and makes it universally harmful.

dominique, you're absolutely right. When one or two Asian operators have this policy, other operators follow suit and even worse. I have to change their tracking urls to good bet365, dafa888 after working for nothing. The worst is 188bet.com!

We should boycott CC, otherwise it's a disaster for small affiliates.
 

polli123

Webmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Location
Germany
Hi all,

does it mean that you lose your whole account belance if you dont fit with the quota? Or will they just set off they payments until you fullfill their T&Cs?

Regards
 

dominique

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Joined
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Location
The Boonies
That's right. If you don't fill the quota, you get nothing, zero, zilch, no matter what you are owed. Your players keep playing and you will never see a penny until you send more and more players.
 

polli123

Webmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Location
Germany
That's right. If you don't fill the quota, you get nothing, zero, zilch, no matter what you are owed. Your players keep playing and you will never see a penny until you send more and more players.
What the fu**?!

Ok, let us see what AC is doing in this case. I hope they will change their T&Cs again...
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
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Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
Update on this.

My Affiliate Club rogue page and thread concerning my blacklisting of them on my forum are now ranked #3 and #4 respectively on google.co.uk for the term Affiliate Club. Indeed only the affiliate club website and affclub are higher on google.co.uk for said term.

In google.com my affiliate club rogue page is #11 and climbing.

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Until such time as affiliate club see sense and remove the predatory and retroactive change to their T & C's then my rogue page will remain. Furthermore I will link out to any other portal regardless of size or pagerank who rogues Affiliate Club. So if you are a webmaster who has rogued Affiliate Club and would like a nice boost in google courtesy of a link from my site, then please let me know.

If Affiliate Club are allowed to make this predatory change unchallenged, then it could signal to many affiliate programs to do the same.

I would also like to state, that I have not promoted Affiliate Club and like Grand Prive have not actually lost out personally by blacklisting them. I have blacklisted Affiliate Club as a point of principle.

I would also like to know why it was Affiliate Guard Dog who had to make public this change to Affiliate Club's T & C's. Why have Affiliate Club failed to notify their partners by email?
 

Dave

Engineer
webmeister
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Jul 19, 2005
Location
North America
I will be adding these guys to my rogue page this week. They've had more than enough time to modify the T&Cs so that they weren't retroactive.

Good point about Affiliate Guard Dog being the one that brought this to light. Obviously Affiliate Club has no respect at all for their affiliate partners. :(
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Staff member
Joined
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Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
I will be adding these guys to my rogue page this week. They've had more than enough time to modify the T&Cs so that they weren't retroactive.

Good point about Affiliate Guard Dog being the one that brought this to light. Obviously Affiliate Club has no respect at all for their affiliate partners. :(

Dave let me know the url when your page is up so I can link to it :thumbsup:
 
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