About Betcruise, BetVoyager

leonardo99

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Hello
I know about Betcruise. BetVoyager that are reputable, have NO House Edge on their casino, only a comission when withdraw.
I'm thinking to play there..100% payout rate sound good for me. But I want to ask..somebody play there?
I don't find this casino to be very popular on affiliate websites..More than that no screenshots on Winning Screenshots Area...Somebody cashout there? How are the slots? Support, cashout time.

Thanks in advance!
 
Games: 100% fair and trustworthy. Slots pretty good, my favorites are Rush4Cash, Refrigerator. All low variance :)
Aff program is pretty crappy: no rev share, just 25 euro for 1st deposit and 20 euro for the second, so not many affs are promoting them.
I won about 17.000 euro here (in total). Cashouts were made instantly, no docs asked. Now they process w/ds withing 24 hours. Support is responsive, they have internal mail system.
 
I promoted them for 6 months on a "Fixed Fee" deal, but they didn't give me any feedback about player sign-ups and because they don't have a proper affy system I didn't carry on with them.

The casino itself is for sure 100% reputable & fair IMHO, but with their extremely limited game selection (only about 6 slots, I think), and the 10% fee on winnings I can't see it ever having mass appeal like the "big boys".

KK
 
I promoted them for 6 months on a "Fixed Fee" deal, but they didn't give me any feedback about player sign-ups and because they don't have a proper affy system I didn't carry on with them.

The casino itself is for sure 100% reputable & fair IMHO, but with their extremely limited game selection (only about 6 slots, I think), and the 10% fee on winnings I can't see it ever having mass appeal like the "big boys".

KK

HI KasinoKing,

The 10% fee is only for the ZERO house edge games. All games with house edge carry on as normal. It's just too bad they don't advertise themselves more since they are the industry first in using SHA-256 algorithm for the purpose of authenticating outcomes before the fact to protect us, the consumer from manipulating/rigged software which I do firmly believe exist to an extent.

IMH(umble)O it really should be the standard, not the exception - and maybe we should demand more of the rest of the industry from this point on...
 
It's just too bad they don't advertise themselves more since they are the industry first in using SHA-256 algorithm for the purpose of authenticating outcomes before the fact to protect us, the consumer from manipulating/rigged software which I do firmly believe exist to an extent.

IMH(umble)O it really should be the standard, not the exception - and maybe we should demand more of the rest of the industry from this point on...
I'm sure the SHA-256 algorithm is totally excellent for those who understand exactly how it works and how it guarantees a fair game. I for one don't mind admitting that I haven't the first clue how it does this, and I'm sure many other regular gamblers are in the same boat.

KK
 
They also have a very good FAQ section where you can find detailed explanation of every aspect of their "Randomness Control" system. Just spend 10-15 minutes on reading it - and you will be in the same boat with those who know how it works :p
 
i actually just read it and STILL have no idea how it works :confused: , but i´m glad they have something like that :thumbsup:

but i´m really bad when it comes to math :D

@spiderman: you mentioned 10% fee on cashouts from no house edge games, do you have an idea, how much of a house edge is "hidden" in that fee?

since nobody gives away money for free, there have to be some strings attached to that offer, right?

since the fee is only on winnings, i guess it depends on how often and how high you play? :confused:
 
i actually just read it and STILL have no idea how it works :confused: , but i´m glad they have something like that :thumbsup:

but i´m really bad when it comes to math :D

@spiderman: you mentioned 10% fee on cashouts from no house edge games, do you have an idea, how much of a house edge is "hidden" in that fee?

since nobody gives away money for free, there have to be some strings attached to that offer, right?

since the fee is only on winnings, i guess it depends on how often and how high you play? :confused:

No, it only depends on how much you won.

i.e. deposit 100, win 900 more, withdraw 1000 - and you will receive 910 (10% fee of your winnings will be taken).
 
damn, that was a fast answer :O

maybe i phrased my question poorly :(

what i mean is: is there any point at which the normal house edge costs me more money than those 10%?

or maybe i just think in the wrong direction :D
 
damn, that was a fast answer :O

maybe i phrased my question poorly :(

what i mean is: is there any point at which the normal house edge costs me more money than those 10%?

or maybe i just think in the wrong direction :D

I remember getting into a discussion about this on a previous BetVoyager thread, and the short answer is no. The overall house edge on the "no edge" games increases as you wager more, but you would have to be gambling for a loooong time to surpass the normal edge games.

I, for one, sincerely wish they offered a good affiliate program. It's a pity they don't get more recognition, imo.
 
Yeah, I wish they had a rev. share :D
I won 500 euro from 60 deposit last month. On Roulette :p
My withdrawal was processed within 1 hour (on Webmoney)! Withdrawals on ECOcard were instant!
 
My first withdrawal to Neteller was super fast...and it was in the middle of a night :D Thumbs up for this place.
 
damn, that was a fast answer :O

maybe i phrased my question poorly :(

what i mean is: is there any point at which the normal house edge costs me more money than those 10%?

or maybe i just think in the wrong direction :D

Normal house edge very easily costs much more than the 10% commission on winnings. It depends on how long you typically play before cashing out. Normal house edge can sneakily add up to very high amounts, that's why it is so difficult to win in the long run against house edge.

However, with the Betvoyager system, it would be to your advantage to play for a very long time and/or to shoot for a high withdrawal target before cashing out. This way you get more action "for free" on zero HE games. If you deposit and withdraw often after every session then the 10% is bad for you as it is calculated from your last deposit.

I remember getting into a discussion about this on a previous BetVoyager thread, and the short answer is no. The overall house edge on the "no edge" games increases as you wager more, but you would have to be gambling for a loooong time to surpass the normal edge games.

We discussed this before and you didn't seem to get it completely right. It is the opposite to what you said: the longer you play zero house edge games, the smaller is the effect of 10% commission relative to your wagers. So the longer you play, the lower the effective house will be, and most likely lower than in a normal casino.
 
i actually just read it and STILL have no idea how it works :confused: , but i´m glad they have something like that :thumbsup:

but i´m really bad when it comes to math :D

@spiderman: you mentioned 10% fee on cashouts from no house edge games, do you have an idea, how much of a house edge is "hidden" in that fee?

since nobody gives away money for free, there have to be some strings attached to that offer, right?

since the fee is only on winnings, i guess it depends on how often and how high you play? :confused:

I'll try to explain how the Randomness Control works...tell me if you understand or not

Before each game, whether you’re playing roulette, poker, slots or any game , the player receives the checksum of the sequence he is going to play, before the game begins. What is the checksum sequence? It is a code on the very top of the game you’ve opened and are playing. This 64 symbol code is information about the deck, but is hidden in disguise in the form of SHA-256 algorithm. This code represents and is equal to, whatever the casino pre-planned the numbers or cards (depending on what game you’re playing) to be. For example, if you land on a 10 in roulette, but have made your bet on 3, you can click on “end” on the right top hand corner of the game, and there will be a box below indicating that the first bet should have been indeed 10. How can we know for sure this is not a scam? You can then copy the pre planned sequence and server code in the box provided, and click “calculate checksum” and you will then see that the exact same code will pop up as in the very beginning of the game. This is a one-way function, so it is mathematically impossible to return to the same game, and use this sequence to then cheat your way through. Also, if you change a single number or letter in the sequence, it then completely changes the code.
 
I'll try to explain how the Randomness Control works...tell me if you understand or not
Not (still).
How do you know that when you click "end" that BetVoyager don't manipulate those "pre-determined results" you haven't seen yet so that the checksum matches?
Also, can you take the results to a totally independent website and check the figures match?

Don't be me wrong, I sure BetVoyager are totally honest and their games are truly random, but I just don't understand how this checksum thing guarantees that.
I also trust all the other major softwares to be random too - without the checksum. So for me it becomes rather redundant.

KK
 
Because you can't generate two identical checksums with different sequences. If casino changes the sequence in their favor (f.e. changes the number in Roulette) - it will change the checksum.

1. Player generates the sequence (Sequence1) and checksum is provided to him (Checksum1).
2. He then plays and when he clicks on "End" button - he receives the sequence (Sequence2) and its checksum (Checksum2).

If Checksum1 = Checksum2, then Sequence1 = Sequence2, which means that player has played with "correct" numbers.

Also, can you take the results to a totally independent website and check the figures match?
Yes, you can. See here:

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@wisenheimer: your explanation is def. easier to understand than the one on their site, thanks mate :D

@jufo: that´s what i thought from the beginning, that it depends totally on how high, how much and what game you play :thumbsup:

@slotmonster: any idea, why they DON´T have rev. share or ANY kind of "good" affi.system? i mean, most sites spend quite some money for things like that, does betvoyager think they can do without? :confused:
 
I think that the best way to find this out is to ask them :)
 
@wisenheimer: your explanation is def. easier to understand than the one on their site, thanks mate :D

@jufo: that´s what i thought from the beginning, that it depends totally on how high, how much and what game you play :thumbsup:

@slotmonster: any idea, why they DON´T have rev. share or ANY kind of "good" affi.system? i mean, most sites spend quite some money for things like that, does betvoyager think they can do without? :confused:

no problem...it took me a while to understand too
 
Because you can't generate two identical checksums with different sequences. If casino changes the sequence in their favor (f.e. changes the number in Roulette) - it will change the checksum.

1. Player generates the sequence (Sequence1) and checksum is provided to him (Checksum1).
2. He then plays and when he clicks on "End" button - he receives the sequence (Sequence2) and its checksum (Checksum2).

If Checksum1 = Checksum2, then Sequence1 = Sequence2, which means that player has played with "correct" numbers.


Yes, you can. See here:

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Thanks, this helps a ton!
 
I had a horrible losing streak at Betvoyager last week. Lost on every single game, in Blackjack dealer made 21 on every hand even though I franticly cut the shoe from different spot after every hand. I even jokingly sent a message to support that please remove the rigging from my account so that I can play normally once again.

But after the horrible streak, I started winning again and reached a five figure balance so it seems it was just a rare occurence of bad luck.
 
I recently found this casino and I'm thinking of depositing some money to it. :)

I think I understand the principles of randomness control they use, but I just have some questions and thoughts regarding Roulette specifically:

I was wondering - they use this SHA-256 algorithm, so.. what are the chances of the same two or three numbers coming up in a row?

I mean, I understand that each spin is individual and the wheel has no memory so on every spin the odds for each number to hit is 37 to 1 or 38 to 1 or 36 to 1, etc.
But technically, with this algorithm, it all comes down to bunch of formulas and digits... and there has to be greater odds of any other number than the previous one coming up next. Is that right?

Because, well, the algorithm generates a sequence of random numbers. Those who have played know that we can tell how long the sequence has to be (from 1 to 60) and then there is this "Shift", which also is explained in the website, but it's basically a number that we can choose to add to already generated random numbers within the algorithm and that will equal the eventual spun number.
So again - do the chances of the same number coming up in a row become bigger if the sequence is, say, 5 or 10 than if the sequence is 60 ? And should the shift thus be changed more often than not?

Well, I'm not any super mathematician, but this is just my opinion... What do you guys think about it?

P.S. The BetVoyager site even explains some roulette and other betting systems, so that's pretty... unusual, I think.
 
Um no, the created sequence can contain any number any number of times with equal odds. The next number in the sequence has no memory of previous number. And you can set the sequence length to be 1 so every spin is a new "sequence".

So if you create a sequence, there is equal probability that it starts with 36,36,36,36 than for example 14,29,8,15.

Notice that you can change the shift after every spin but it doesn't change the odds. The next number in the sequence just changes to some other number.

The real money game is identical to fun money game so you should play with fun money first to see how it works.

It's strange if they give advice of different betting systems but as long as they make it clear that those systems are only for leisure to try different things and that you can't make profit from them in the long run, I guess that's ok.

I recently found this casino and I'm thinking of depositing some money to it. :)

I think I understand the principles of randomness control they use, but I just have some questions and thoughts regarding Roulette specifically:

I was wondering - they use this SHA-256 algorithm, so.. what are the chances of the same two or three numbers coming up in a row?

I mean, I understand that each spin is individual and the wheel has no memory so on every spin the odds for each number to hit is 37 to 1 or 38 to 1 or 36 to 1, etc.
But technically, with this algorithm, it all comes down to bunch of formulas and digits... and there has to be greater odds of any other number than the previous one coming up next. Is that right?

Because, well, the algorithm generates a sequence of random numbers. Those who have played know that we can tell how long the sequence has to be (from 1 to 60) and then there is this "Shift", which also is explained in the website, but it's basically a number that we can choose to add to already generated random numbers within the algorithm and that will equal the eventual spun number.
So again - do the chances of the same number coming up in a row become bigger if the sequence is, say, 5 or 10 than if the sequence is 60 ? And should the shift thus be changed more often than not?

Well, I'm not any super mathematician, but this is just my opinion... What do you guys think about it?

P.S. The BetVoyager site even explains some roulette and other betting systems, so that's pretty... unusual, I think.
 
betraiser?

oh, didn´t expect such lively discussion :D , sure is helpful :thumbsup:

i just surfed 2+2 (pokers) and it said that betraiser (betcruises pokers) has a new software, which slowly but surely begins not to suck :D

didn´t wanna start a new thread for this....does (or has) anyone play/ed there?

:confused:

just found couple o posts that they lack traffic, but other guys seemed to like it....what does "not so much traffic" mean? cuz i don´t play regularly, but when i do i play quite a lot/long sessions.....
 

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