888 / Casino On Net Condoning Site Scraping & Copyright Theft?

[jargon]

The SE's might look favorable upon on active approach to clean up this mess on our own. Perhaps more can be done a couple of good article submissions, "Honest webmasters Cleaning up the Online Gambling Industry". I am sure this would be productive.

It would save the SE's the bother and perhaps they just might jump on board? Also contacting other webmasters that still support their brand and informing them of these recent develpoments.

For cross link exchanges have a statement "will not exchange links if you support 888.com"

Lots can be done. But foremost I believe in cooperation for the common good for all concern.

BTW I had mentioned this problem back in December 2005 when I joined this forum. It has takin a long time. I am pleased its' finally taking hold.

 

[Sodax77]

....

Indeed, the blog spam coming from Cassava direct and their collection of rogue affiliates has even made it onto Wikipedia:

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Cassava Enterprises
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Cassava Enterprises LogoCassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. is a limited company which operates several high-profile gambling websites. Cassava was founded in 1997 and is based in Gibraltar. Its subsidiary, 888 Holdings Plc, is listed on the London Stock Exchange (LSE: 888).

Prior to the company's IPO, brothers Avi and Aaron Shaked owned seventy percent of the company. Another pair of brothers, Shay and Ron Ben-Yitzhak, controlled twenty percent through a family trust. Employees of the company collectively owned the rest.......

They have a right to do this, but where is criticism, etc, etc

Remember, you can edit these texts! So if you have anything,
what you can proof, True information...
go ahead, and make your post/notice/information/whatever!

 

[Simmo!]

Hey Simmo. I had to rep you. You now have 888 rep points as a result.

Damn! My cover is blown! Quick...someone rep me before my paymaster finds out

 

[jargon]

The mounds of player disatisfaction is quite evident. I have a library of it here is a few grabbed from Alexa. Anything in regards to 888.com I have.


Fixed. Lulled into false sense of security via free play and then u pay up and dealers score 21, or 20 near enough every time. Basic strategy blackjack determines when a dealers face up card is low ie -5 the dealer is more than likely to bust. On 888.com, this rarely happens, just a bit of proof. Check it out, i think its a fixing site. How else can they offer 100% bonus on sign up?!


Worst Site - FIXED,
This is worse site for online gambler. I recommend not to try this site at all. They allure you first few times and once you hit a number, you will never win no matter how much you try. I tried hundreds of times.
Other clever thing they do, when you play in public areas and you are a high roller, they kick you out of public area and set your table as private table automatically.
I know online gambling is a bad news, but this casino is a WORSE NEWS. Try others, who at least pays from time to time. NOT THIS ONE. SUCKER

FIXED!, January 4, 2006
Reviewer: Mr. A. M. Forster - See all my reviews


Fixed. Lulled into false sense of security via free play and then u pay up and dealers score 21, or 20 near enough every time. Basic strategy blackjack determines when a dealers face up card is low ie -5 the dealer is more than likely to bust. On 888.com, this rarely happens, just a bit of proof. Check it out, i think its a fixing site. How else can they offer 100% bonus on sign up?!

Was this review helpful to you?


Worst Site - FIXED, April 4, 2005
Reviewer: M. Talmadge - See all my reviews


This is worse site for online gambler. I recommend not to try this site at all. They allure you first few times and once you hit a number, you will never win no matter how much you try. I tried hundreds of times.
Other clever thing they do, when you play in public areas and you are a high roller, they kick you out of public area and set your table as private table automatically.
I know online gambling is a bad news, but this casino is a WORSE NEWS. Try others, who at least pays from time to time. NOT THIS ONE. SUCKER.

 

[Webzcas]

I completely disagree. I may not particulary care for their casino, such as the fact you have to exchange your currency into dollars using their own exchange rates to play. Or indeed the fact it takes a full week to cash out your winnings, regardless of whether you are a high or low roller.

However I can state Categorically that 888 casino is not fixed and is perfectly legit. Remember it is also subjected to independent audits.

I imagine the people that posted those reviews on alexa, were bitter losers. They would have been better off visiting gamcare rather than alexa IMO.

 

[AussieDave]

I am offering a link back to any site, regardless of PR or even indexing, that adds a seperate page rogueing 888 and telling what the problem is and links to me.

If we all link to each other we will top the search engines. This will put some pressure on 888 to cease and desist from paying people to steal and spam (not to mention that it will help sites getting better SERPS).

Lets look forward and stop this destructive and illegal practice!

I applaud this idea.

I'm willing to add a page how do I get hooked up?

 

[jargon]

I threw that out there for amusement if you want player complaints about getting 888.com of there computer I can post them as well. Nothing like scumware and malware complaints from players.

 

[dominique]

Now that is definitely something I have heard a lot of.

888 has been using malware for years, and have had many complaints over time.

Not so many lately, popup blockers supress the most annoying ones (although they allow the crap to continue to reside on your computer, slowing it down), and spyware removers help a lot.

 

[dominique]

I applaud this idea.

I'm willing to add a page how do I get hooked up?

Just add the page and PM me with a link. We'll go from there.

 

[Sodax77]

...888 has been using malware for years, and have had many complaints over time....

Yep!

It is not like these MG/Playetch/etc false alerts in Ad-Aware/SpybotSD

It is Malware. [and Adware]

 

[jetset]

You guys are now acting in concert and there are already good tactical ideas starting to flow - more are possible; don't forget that 888 is a listed company now for one. Using the media is another, but for that you've got to bring this affilate-speak stuff down to a level that the lay person understands.

 

[dominique]

The rogue pages are trickling in and I am linking to them. A lot more said they would do it on the weekend.

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[AussieDave]

Using the media is another, but for that you've got to bring this affilate-speak stuff down to a level that the lay person understands.

I admire your lateral thinking in all your posts jetset. You've raised a very important key, that is loose the affilate-speak stuff . I've tried to present examples in so far as how this issue affects everyone using the net. Hopefully I've managed to get the story accross, without heading down the sensationalising path.

Cheers

PS I'm sure you'll read my take on this soon

 

[AussieDave]

I don't know if it's just a coincidence or there is something more sinister at play here, but...

I was editing the article I wrote and adding some Editors notes to the footer of this peice. For completeness I added links to every site mentioned in the article. Wanting to make sure everything was functional, I clicked on 888.com

Now after doing this I logged out of the Admin backend of my site, and closed all browsers. I then checked my emails...

Normally OE pops up in 2secs flat but this time it just stalled...finally it opened. I then opened a browser and checked my online email, BUT here is the interesting problem, my stored p/w had been deleted...It was fine some 30 min previous

I then check Neteller and the same damn thing, my account ID is wiped...

Now I'm not accusing anyone or anything here, but I'm saying it's pretty damn strange, that's all.

 

[AussieDave]

Just did a search on google for 888.com site scraping and found something that was funny in a bent type of way.

As you'll see by the screen cap you've got a listing about what 888.com has been doing about their rogue affiliates and on the right hand side under sponsored links, software that allows this practice to continue.

 

[Simmo!]

Just did a search on google for 888.com site scraping and found something that was funny in a bent type of way.

As you'll see by the screen cap you've got a listing about what 888.com has been doing about their rogue affiliates and on the right hand side under sponsored links, software that allows this practice to continue.

LOL. I also see one on my Google for "sitescraper.com". Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your view, I guess scraping is legitimate for some purposes (ie: when not reproducing it).

 

[vinylweatherman]

Cookies

Normally OE pops up in 2secs flat but this time it just stalled...finally it opened. I then opened a browser and checked my online email, BUT here is the interesting problem, my stored p/w had been deleted...It was fine some 30 min previous

I then check Neteller and the same damn thing, my account ID is wiped...

These are stored in the cookies in the temporary internet files folder. If these cookies are removed this will happen. It happens when I clear out my cookies, but also happens on other occasions (not sure why exactly).
It may be that underlying firewall or spyware removal software has something to do with it.
Neteller have changed the sign-on page last week with that pain-in-the-a*** upgrade. It has a different cookie, and the first time you use it the ID will be gone, but the old page still works, so if you have bookmarked it and use it, the ID is back!

 

[AussieDave]

LOL. I also see one on my Google for "sitescraper.com". Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your view, I guess scraping is legitimate for some purposes (ie: when not reproducing it).

I could understand say web dev companies using it or even BIG corps or those with the need to scrap their own content from 100's if not 1000's of pages, so yes I agree for legit purposes.

Could also use the saying that a lot of gun lobbists use, guns don't kill people, people kill people...

 

[AussieDave]

These are stored in the cookies in the temporary internet files folder. If these cookies are removed this will happen. It happens when I clear out my cookies, but also happens on other occasions (not sure why exactly).
It may be that underlying firewall or spyware removal software has something to do with it.
Neteller have changed the sign-on page last week with that pain-in-the-a*** upgrade. It has a different cookie, and the first time you use it the ID will be gone, but the old page still works, so if you have bookmarked it and use it, the ID is back!

Thanks for the heads up on Neteller

 

[dominique]

Linking of 888 rogue pages is moving right along.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Webzcas]

Bank Holiday Weekend and no response from the 888 Rep on CAP yet. I am hoping headway can be made tomorrow. It really is in 888's interests to treat the affiliate communities concerns seriously.

The two issues they need to address now:

1) Blog Spamming. Why do they actively participate in this?

2) Support of Site Scrapers. Why are 888, dragging their heels in shutting down the people behind these thousands of scraper sites which in turn promote their brands.

By not taking action against these individuals and continuing to pay them, is sending out a loud message that 888 supports copyright theft on a very large scale.

 

[caruso]

I've read nothing in this thread as affiliate problems don't exactly motivate me, but having chatted with a friend about this issue it seems that Cassava may be in breach of their eCOGRA credentials, and that eCOGRA should be notified about the matter and be encouraged to pull the plug on whatever stunt Cassava are pulling here. If Cassava are actually breaching copyright, this is an open and closed case.

 

[The Dude]

I've read nothing in this thread as affiliate problems don't exactly motivate me...

Odd that you should say that when you are an affiliate yourself. But besides that, you should realize that this is not simply an affiliate issue. This deals with copyright and trademark violations committed by affiliates of 888.com and possibly 888.com itself. It has nothing to do with if Joe Blow affiliate received his affiliate check on time.

You should also note that the webmasters who have voiced their opinions on this issue are not affiliates of 888.com.

You need to get with the program, Caruso - this is a serious issue that concerns everyone.

 

[caruso]

It has nothing to do with if Joe Blow affiliate received his affiliate check on time.

Where did I say it was? I said affy issues don't bother me much so I hadn't read the thread at that point. I wasn't accusing anyone of being affiliate whores.

You know me well enough to know I'd never do that.

You need to get with the program, Caruso - this is a serious issue that concerns everyone.

I know where my priorities lie and where they don't, and I don't need anyone telling me anything about them in any shape or form.

I see now the eCOGRA subject has been raised, and deflected because it's not a "player issue". I disagree that this is the case. If this "scraping" is causing non gambling related content searches ending up directing said customers to Cassava, then this is a player / public issue, and not an affliate issue. Anything which targets potential customers is a "player issue".

But besides that, you should realize that this is not simply an affiliate issue. This deals with copyright and trademark violations committed by affiliates of 888.com and possibly 888.com itself.

Exactly.

I'll be urging eCOGRA to get involved on the above basis. They are in the number one position to do absolutely anything Cassava-related.

 

[The Dude]

I know where my priorities lie and where they don't, and I don't need anyone telling me anything about them in any shape or form.

Well dude, if you jump into this thread making comments like this:

I've read nothing in this thread as affiliate problems don't exactly motivate me...

..you're going to get told to get with the program whether you like it or not.

And please don't derail the thread with another eCOGRA downward spiral. Feel free to begin a separate thread if you'd like - thanks!

 

[soflat]

I've read nothing in this thread as affiliate problems don't exactly motivate me, ...

Well I did read the whole thread. The first post claimed it was an issue that affects players. But I haven't seen anything but affiliate talk.

 

[Webzcas]

Well I did read the whole thread. The first post claimed it was an issue that affects players. But I haven't seen anything but affiliate talk.

Well I am of the opinion that copyright theft, blog spamming and spamming the search engines are all methods which are not only unethical and wrong, but bring the industry into disrepute.

Particulary at a time when many congressmen are openly trying to ban online gambling in the US. Site Scrapers & to a lesser extent blog spammers help paint a less than attractive picture of the industry.

Whilst this is primarily a webmaster issue. It is important that players are aware of any dubious marketing activities that they may engage in.

 

[caruso]

And please don't derail the thread with another eCOGRA downward spiral. Feel free to begin a separate thread if you'd like - thanks!

Will do. Seems counter-productive, when the issue is this one and it'll also splinter the thing in two, but whatever.

 

[dominique]

Well I did read the whole thread. The first post claimed it was an issue that affects players. But I haven't seen anything but affiliate talk.

Content thieves do not only target casino terms.

They use programs to create tens of thousands of sites, which they list under all kinds of subjects in search. All they need is one click per site.

All you need is some politician's wife looking for games for their 5 ear old kid and having an 888 casino front thrown in her face instead, or some similair scenario.

THAT hurts everyone. You may not care about the internet being a cesspool of theft because of these people, but having the US law changed because of them WILL affect you. If gambling online actually does become illegal, casinos will fold, be unable to pay, and believe you me, players will suffer.

 

[Webzcas]

Dom, well put!

All you need is some politician's wife looking for games for their 5 ear old kid and having an 888 casino front thrown in her face instead, or some similair scenario.

Bingo! Seriously, anyone who enjoys a punt, a game of poker, or a spin of the slots online based in the US, who is concerned about HR4777 and no doubt the spin offs, should be concerned about what the likes of 888 are allowing their rogue affiliates to do.

 

[caruso]

Content thieves do not only target casino terms. They use programs to create tens of thousands of sites, which they list under all kinds of subjects in search. All they need is one click per site. All you need is some politician's wife looking for games for their 5 ear old kid and having an 888 casino front thrown in her face instead, or some similair scenario.

...which is as much as I said above:

If this "scraping" is causing non gambling related content searches ending up directing said customers to Cassava, then this is a player / public issue, and not an affliate issue. Anything which targets potential customers is a "player issue".

Of course this is a "player issue".

 

[Webzcas]

It is now Wednesday. The Bank Holiday Weekend has been and gone. Yet still an eerie silence from 888. No communication from their Rep on Casino Affiliate Programs, even though she was actively signed on yesterday reading the ever growing list of posts.

I would like to ask:

If 888 stonewall their so called partners ie affiliates. I can only begin to imagine what their treatment of players is.

Maybe, they hope this very serious issue of blogspamming and site scraping will go away. I am guessing that is what they are indeed hoping. Unless there is movement on this issue behind the scenes which I am unaware of.

Bryan, has anyone from 888 got in touch with you yet? Surely they must be aware of this thread, as I have linked to it on CAP in their forum.

This is not looking good.

I don't care how big a casino is. Silence is not the way to solve this problem. I am looking for solutions not condemnations. However 888's inaction and silence has left me no alternative but to rogue them on my sites.

Until the time that they openly work with us on this issue, will I even consider removing the rogue listing.

 

[Chatmaster]

I would like to stress the importance this has to players. Supporting affiliates that are guilty of these criminal deeds should indicate dangers for players. 888 by ignoring this issue and not specifying in their Affiliate terms and conditions that it is not allowed. By wanting to warn the affiliates that has been pointed out by CAP and Casinomeister taking months before actually taking action they are actually condoning this. Blackhats know all their work are always temporary but they can make allot of money during the time it lasts, that is in a way their moto. The longer 888 takes to resolve these issues the more they will keep on doing this. Act and act now, that is the decent thing to do!

 

[The Dude]

..Bryan, has anyone from 888 got in touch with you yet? Surely they must be aware of this thread, as I have linked to it on CAP in their forum...

All I hear is the ominous drone of crickets chirping...

 

[Chatmaster]

OK, this little cricket will go chirp elsewhere for a moment, lol.

 

[maxfalcon]

That's a shame to see industry leaders continuing to support those deceiving practices. Email spam, forum spam, blog spam, search engine spam, adware, spyware, site scraping & all are those things making the Internet annoying at times.

I like to work with people that value the real work of their partners. I will take measures for my websites. I was happy to propose 888 to my audience since years, even if their affiliate program has never made me any real money (apart a great gift for Christmas), because, usually, 888 is proposing a good experience to the player, but now I think there are enough good & serious properties out there to 'forget' about 888 on my websites.

 

[Webzcas]

Casino Affiliate Programs have just suspended 888's Certified Program Status:

The Professor has posted regarding this here:

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[The Dude]

888 has stated that they are unwilling to institute these changes at this time.

888 Casino regrets that they are being de-certified, but this is the decision of senior management within the organization and is not in line with recommendations made by their affiliate team managers.

So I take it, this is not an affiliate program's decision, but a direct decision by 888.com itself? I'm pretty much amazed that this casino has taken this stand. So they are condoning the use of content theft to bring in players? Is 888.com planing to make a statement about this?

The whole time I thought that 888.com was trying to distance themselves from their affiliate program random-logic.com, but by reading this statement it looks like they are one-in-the-same.

Looks like the rogue section needs to be updated.

 

[Simmo!]

So they are condoning the use of content theft to bring in players? Is 888.com planing to make a statement about this?

I'm still a bit unclear about the whole content theft thing...I've always seen it as a bigger thing encompassing all sorts of "Black Hat" marketing techniques.

 

[Professor]

Is 888.com planing to make a statement about this?

No they are not. That choice is what prompted our decision.

After numerous discussions with the affiliate team it's my understanding that the content theft, google bowling, blog spamming and black hat seo practices are the result of a media campaign being operated by one rogue team and are not direct affiliates of Tradal or the 888 Casino Affiliate Program.

This rogue group works directly with 888 and the affiliate managers are unable to convince upper management to stop these illegal and industry damaging activites.

This is a very sad commentary on when greed and short term profits surpass integrity.

 

[Chatmaster]

If this is the attitude that 888 has we have reason to be concerned. By condoning criminal acts like content theft they are making things look very grim for the online gambling industry. We really need to make an example of 888 so we can ensure that no other casino try to do the same. With the US HR4777 issue this is all we need to get stumped on. I am ashamed of 888's stupidity, I expected more from such a gracefull giant, soon to be dwarf.

 

[dominique]

I am so shocked that I am speechless, and you all know that's got to be a first.

I have been trying to get as many sites as possible to rogue 888 and link to each other to get it into the search engines and let everyone know.

The engines have just started to pick up on it.

Investors will find this unpleasant.

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My offer stands. I will link back to any site that devotes a page to rogueing 888.

You will all be more effective if you all link to each other also.

888 was the worst supporter of thiefware or spyware, whatever you want to call it, and now they are polluting the search engines with tens of thousands of illegal sites advertising themselves to people who are looking for all kinds of things, not necessarily casinos.

I bet their investors would be very interested in such unethical behavior. As would the news papers as 888 is a publicly traded company.

Thanks for your support Bryan. As always, you rock!

 

[rowmare]

Three Cheers to CAP for

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, sending out a message to all casino marketers that unethical practices will not be tolerated in that community.

Hats off, also, to all the affiliates who stuck their necks out publicly to help get things started and kept the fire going. Most notable: Greek39 at the CAP community who spent weeks focusing on finding evidence, following trails, and was the first to pipe up way back on October 12, 2005.

I believe some press releases are in order?

Let's keep fighting the good fight!

 

[jargon]

Indeed a long fight but well worth it I to applaud everybody for being so proactive on this pressing issue. Cap has done the right thing I am truly greatful. The meister has done the right thing, we have all came together for the common good. I congradulate everybody!! who took part. This all started quite some ago with one post I made in regards to 888.com. For now keep pushing and if all else fails I will do something I haven't done in years, another month I will be in that positon.

888.com is fried, greek39

 

[The Dude]

Off to the rogue pit with ye!
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[MissDevil]

this kind of industry self regulation is great. if this were the online adult industry, this thread would instantly prompt 1000 imitating webmasters and dozens of different affiliate programs fighting to buy the shonky traffic.

 

[Simmo!]

this kind of industry self regulation is great. if this were the online adult industry, this thread would instantly prompt 1000 imitating webmasters and dozens of different affiliate programs fighting to buy the shonky traffic.

Ah trust me, this industry still has more than it's fair share of those MD! Sometimes I despair at what I see affiliates and online businesses saying and doing.

Places like CM and WOL have moved the industry in the right direction for sure, but one of the bad things about the Internet unfortunately is that while it provides a platform for the small individual to be entrepreneurial, it doesn't necessarily teach them common-sense. That is borne out of experience and communion.

This is another area that places like Meister can be of assistance. Being able to share information and see how others conduct themselves can provide valuable experience in itself.

Cheers

Simmo!

 

[lots0]

Hello everyone,

I noticed that it has been over a month, since anyone posted in this thread and there has been a lot going on with this 888.con issue, so I thought this would be a good time to make my first post here.

As some of you know I have been actively posting over at CAP on this issue. I dont want to see this 888 issue fade away, if it fades away 888 wins and the online casino business (and most of us) loses.

I would like to point out to everyone that Dominiques strategy of linking together 888 Rogue pages is working, just search for 888.con on google.

If youre an affiliate and you dont have an 888 Rogue page up yet, please put one up as soon as you can, its for your own good.

More evidence that working together we can win:
888.con stock has been dropping very very fast in the London Stock Exchange for the last three days. As I write this, I believe their stock has currently lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 12% or 13% of its total value in the last three days, thats a lot of money to lose, tens of millions of Pounds Sterling, I didnt even bother to do the conversion to USD.

You can tell that 888 is getting desperate, they have resorted to attempting to Attack or google-bowl affiliate sites that have blacklisted/Rogued them.

888s attacks have apparently worked on at least one of the smaller/newer sites (see the CAP 888 thread), most of the larger/older sites are somewhat immune to attacks like the ones 888 is launching, but I believe that over time these type of attacks will even erode the larger portals Trust Factor and rankings/traffic from google.

I believe that 888 launching targeted attacks against those that have blacklisted them, moves this confrontation (for lack of a better word) to a new level. I hope you all agree with me.

I dont think anyone in this business can now sit on the fence over this issue. If this attack works or 888 is allowed to profit from it, all of us better find real day jobs... I hear they need dealers in Jackpot NV...

Thanks for letting me post.

 

[Simmo!]

I believe that 888 launching targeted attacks against those that have blacklisted them, moves this confrontation (for lack of a better word) to a new level. I hope you all agree with me.

I could be wrong here but I thought the assumption being made was that it was the main benefactor of the 888 affiliate program that had instigated the attacks, and that 888 have not yet publically addressed the issue?

 

[Slotster!]

Edited for being an idiot