888 / Casino On Net Condoning Site Scraping & Copyright Theft?

[The Dude]

Thing is though, I see this as a CON problem. It's only they who can sort it, no-one else...

Wham - bam, thank ya m'am (sir), that's it in a nutshell.

 

[AussieDave]

eCOGRA is set up for player issues, and this has always been made clear. They are fully aware of this situation and have been following this closely. But please bear in mind, for them to remain focused on what they are doing, it would not be practical to begin tackling issues that have been considered "affiliate" issues - or out of their realm. They simply to not have the resources and manpower to effectively take these sorts of issues head on.

I understand. Even though eCogra will probably not get involved in this publically due to the reasons you've detailed above Bryan, it's however a comforting thought that they are aware of this situation are are following it.

The main thing I think is not to punish people or rogue the hell out of them, but to bring a serious issue to the surface and do something about it. I expect 888.com/casino-on-net to take immediate action on getting their collective shit together.

I agree


PS Your one fast typer, maybe that's the journalist coming out in you. You must have been writing this as I was mulling over my last post. Just to clear things, your comments I'd not read before hitting the post button on my previous comments.

 

[Simmo!]

Just to clear things, your comments I'd not read before hitting the post button on my previous comments.

LOL. You're not alone...same here

888.con

Subtlety - love it

 

[The Dude]

Actually, I'm trying to write a newsletter that is waaaay past due.

 

[Simmo!]

As a light-hearted aside, 888.com sponsor Middlesbrough FC (soccer!), who just beat Steaua Bucharest with an 88th minute winner to reach the UEFA Cup final.

So i guess you could say:

They scraped through

 

[thelawnet]

I've moved this from the Webmaster's Section to here since I feel that this affects everyone in this industry: affiliates, operators, players, etc.

Site scrapping and content theft are very serious issues that need to be halted now.

Well there are plenty of other issues as bad. Lots of ECOGRA-casinos are promoted by spammers. I have had spam messages posted to a charity website I run. The casino will probably close them down if you report them, but it's not exactly top of their priority list, otherwise these spamming bastards would not be doing it because they would not get paid and it would not be worth their while.

There is a very serious spamming problem from online gambling, from spam email onwards.

I do not believe casinos really care, because most affiliates are not operating legitimate sites like this one, but rather crappy doorway pages. Do the casinos care? Of course not, they are making money.

But Fortune Lounge for instance is not being proactive about spam like this

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I think no questions asked is the motto. Bring us the customers, and who cares if you are a dirty spammer?

 

[Simmo!]

I think no questions asked is the motto. Bring us the customers, and who cares if you are a dirty spammer?

You're right TLN. You definately get the impression that there is an element of "turn a blind eye" here. 888 were made aware of the issue a long time ago but it still remains a huge problem. It's only really now that the voices of dissent are becoming more collective. Probably a long way to go too to make them take it seriously. But you gotta have snow to make a snowman.

 

[jetset]

I would like to ask a question here, hopefully without provoking anyone:

What are the affected webmasters doing about tackling this themselves in a cohesive manner? Is there any sort of affiliate umbrella organisation that is coordinating everyone into an efficient team to combat and manage this issue? CAP? iGAMI? Dom?

Are you guys acting individually or have you put your heads together and worked out a smart and if necessary cooperatively funded strategy for pressuring 888 to come right (using tactics other than emailing eCOGRA and posting on the fora, that is)

There are surely several different avenues that could be seriously considered, assuming that 888 and its management do not come to the party?

 

[Simmo!]

What are the affected webmasters doing about tackling this themselves in a cohesive manner? Is there any sort of affiliate umbrella organisation that is coordinating everyone into an efficient team to combat and manage this issue? CAP? iGAMI? Dom?

I think until now, there has been a lot of speculation and plenty of clues, but nothing quite as obvious as what Webzcas found today. While some people have stopped affiliating with 888 as a result, I think many people have been keen to see proof before they act.

Hopefully now, the people with influence on the webmaster side will be able to bring it together with more purpose. Whether 888 choose to act of course, only time will tell. There is a ripple of opinion circulating that hey might be considering "going it alone". And maybe Webzcas has stumbled on the bricks and black mortar boards (sic) for that plan?

 

[rowmare]

Is there any sort of affiliate umbrella organisation that is coordinating everyone into an efficient team to combat and manage this issue? CAP? iGAMI? Dom?

At iGAMI we have been actively pursuing this issue since December, 2005. Unfortunately, we have not had much cooperation with other large gambling sites. We have already been through the same type emails showing at CAP from 888.com - closing of scraper sites (but only specific ones we brought to their attention), the promises to look into it... it's just a repeat of what iGAMI has already gone through.

So, we've helped to keep it going at CAP, where a very large number of webmasters can read what is going on. Hopefully something will come of this.

It would be prudent for gambling webmasters to join iGAMI, so that we can demonstrate to the programs that we can and will act together to make this industry honest. iGAMI is not a replacement or a competitor to forums, such as CAP, but a place where complaints are registered and dealt with.

 

[jargon]

I quess I am not fooling anybody by calling myself jargon. But I must agree iGami
has been doing their homework on 888.com idiots for quite sometime now. The more people who cooperate on this issue the better chance we all have. Me personally have no monetary interest at all. I just want one thing, people who work hard should reep the benifits, rather than have it stolen. My loyalties lie with CAP and they have been more than accomodating on this pressing issue.

So I say come together and fight this deamon we see before us!!!

 

[jetset]

At iGAMI we have been actively pursuing this issue since December, 2005. Unfortunately, we have not had much cooperation with other large gambling sites. We have already been through the same type emails showing at CAP from 888.com - closing of scraper sites (but only specific ones we brought to their attention), the promises to look into it... it's just a repeat of what iGAMI has already gone through.

So, we've helped to keep it going at CAP, where a very large number of webmasters can read what is going on. Hopefully something will come of this.

Yes, I've seen a lot of posts on this at WOL and now here, but I guess what I'm getting at is something that is a little more comprehensive, planned and effective through a range of carefully assembled vehicles and options, with teams allocated specific responsibilities and integrated timeframes for each aspect.

If you're going to fight big business like 888 then the best chance of success lies in working the way big business does (financial restrictions notwithstanding) in an organised and more cohesive fashion imo.

If that can be put together on a large scale (and I am confident that webmasters/affiliates have the skills to do it) and applied with determination, then if 888 does not come right you guys could have a pretty formidable machine that can influence business significantly.

 

[rowmare]

We're prepared to do what it takes, but we need the support of the gambling community. Plain and simple. If webmasters don't pull together, there's little a handful of us can do.

 

[Chatmaster]

Remember this is just my own opinion. I am sorry rowmare, I agree with most you say but... For IGAMI to act as that somebody is simply impossible. My visit over there revealed to me 2 things. 1st of all it has a completely private ownership amongst affiliate buddies and if the group involved in the background doesn't like you will probably stay out. The entire structure of the idea is wrong and nothing solid. Secondly I do not think that IGAMI is neutral in their decisions. When conformation for certain statements were requested a simple post was made we have the evidence, blah blah blah. We know you say you have but please show it? Besides I feel the GPWA and CAP has proven to be alot more successfull in resolving these issues rather than just go wild, then actually making difference in the affiliate industry as a whole. I do agree that we need an institution like eCogra for the affiliate side of things. Where there can be no doubt that the controling body is impartial and mature.

At the end of the day this thread is once again steering off on a doom because of IGAMI promos. Let's focus on 888 and nothing else at this stage.

 

[Webzcas]

Let's focus on 888 and nothing else at this stage.

Agreed. The affiliate community at CAP is actively pursuing this issue with 888. I am happy with that. This is not a time, or the thread to hawk other fledgling affiliate bodies IMO.

This thread is all about 888 and their percieved turning a blind eye, with regards many of their affiliates who conduct site scraping to promote their brands. Furthermore, this thread concerns 888 Holdings / Cassava being actively behind blog spamming, as per the first post in the thread. Let's please keep this the topic.

 

[rowmare]

At the end of the day this thread is once again steering off on a doom because of IGAMI promos. Let's focus on 888 and nothing else at this stage.

iGAMI was mentioned and then a question was asked, I answered. I did not intend for it to be a promo. As for the rest of your erroneous assumptions, in the interest of keeping the thread on the topic, I'll refrain from responding. If you have some good ideas, and are willing to donate your time to a non-profit organization, you are certainly welcome to do so. We want what is best for the industry.

 

[The Dude]

iGAMI was mentioned and then a question was asked, I answered. I did not intend for it to be a promo. As for the rest of your erroneous assumptions, in the interest of keeping the thread on the topic, I'll refrain from responding.

It's cool - don't worry about it. I think that what we want to see as a collective whole - webmaster/player/operator/observer - is to see the casino take the bull by the horns and correct the major malfunction on their own without being told to do otherwise by any organised force or entity.

 

[Chatmaster]

Hi Janet

As I said , this is my personal opinion. I often come out louder and harsher than intended.

If we do create an organization for the control of the affiliate programs, it must be a body that has tooth to byte where it matters. In other words can actually close down their affiliate programs or pull their approval or license.

What comes to mind first of all is to approach the governments where they are licensed for their support, in requiring membership to this body. The body should have rules and regulations that has been stipulated and enforced into the finest details etc. I don't think I need to carry on much further about this issue. There was no attack towards IGAMI just an opinion and a 888 thread where I saw IGAMI once to many.

BTW Just got your PM, Thanks!

 

[rowmare]

Thanks guys. We're interested in the same things, so lets get back to it!

 

[dominique]

The affiliate world is physically divided, even though all decent affiliates from all the different organizations are facing the same problems. This is not a thread to advertise and woo members. That is exactly the kind of thing that keeps it divided.

It would be refreshing to see all segments of the community act in unison, each adding their bit to solve a problem. Let's do that now without anymore ado.

We have a really serious problem here, affecting the entire industry.

We are here to talk about 888. We have a problem and it lives in our middle. We have rogue affiliates who are being paid by 888 to spam the search engine with content stolen from us. They are using our hard work to create tens of thousands of sites. They are listing these sites under keywords that have nothing to do with Gambling. You can have granny looking for a better recipee for strawberry jam and the 888 front page pops in her face. These scraper sites are produced by the tens of thousands because they only expect one click through per site, the rest of the people will click it away in disgust.

This hurts the entire industry. We are facing enough legal problems. Do we really want to hand the government ammunition? Do we really need to antagonize the public? Do we really need to antagonize the search engines? Have you ever thought that the search engines could just filter all gaming related keywords in order to eliminate this type of spam?

I think that is a heck of a lot more likely than a filter imposed by governments.

If I were google, I would seriously consider that. Nothing but head aches from the gambling industry.

THAT is one of the main reasons 888 and anyone else paying affiliates to spam search engines HAS TO STOP NOW!!!!!!

I am offering a link back to any site, regardless of PR or even indexing, that adds a seperate page rogueing 888 and telling what the problem is and links to me.

If we all link to each other we will top the search engines. This will put some pressure on 888 to cease and desist from paying people to steal and spam (not to mention that it will help sites getting better SERPS).

Lets look forward and stop this destructive and illegal practice!

 

[Simmo!]

Google could seriously knock this big time. Trouble is they are hard to get through to...bigger fish to fry. Shame cos one flick of the switch, and it would all be over.

 

[Webzcas]

Google could seriously knock this big time. Trouble is they are hard to get through to...bigger fish to fry. Shame cos one flick of the switch, and it would all be over.

Maybe pointing out a few hundred spammy sites all promoting the same brand on Matt Cutt's Blog might get their attention.

 

[Simmo!]

Maybe pointing out a few hundred spammy sites all promoting the same brand on Matt Cutt's Blog might get their attention.

Knowing now the way 888 marketing works, they probably beat us to it

 

[Webzcas]

Knowing now the way 888 marketing works, they probably beat us to it

 

[Webzcas]

Hey Simmo. I had to rep you. You now have 888 rep points as a result.