3Dice

[LonelyHearts]

I asked how much money have 3dice taken in. I remember when u was a small casino just trying to get your feet wet.

 

[silcnlayc]

that high-variance is in the advantage of the player.

How so? I had deposited (yes like a dummy) over 100 times an avg of $40-75.00 each deposit at a certain casino (not yours) and made two $300 withdraws...I gave in and quit them totally...Now figure that out..it was OVER 100 deposits in about 7 weeks....at this ONE casino only!

Lets say an average of $5500 total..and they continued in the vein you are...and had the same EXACT high variance claim as you do and which you SAY is good for a player...but all in all, you are so far off base....no disrpect at all to you but, how in the world can you really believe this is an advantage to the player?

On another note..this casino lost me as a depositor..I gave it my best in believing...but finally knew what a bunch of hogwash (no pun intended) it was. Then I flip over to your casino and continue in the manner as with the other casino and find that once again...it is the same ole, same ole...

Now, how much money from just one depositor did that casino and yours lose because you cater to those with deeper pockets??? How many with those deep pockets will play to feed the casino before they give in??? They are not stupid either so there again, you get a double loss of players..

I am really amazed that there are still some that tout that high variance (whatever) is good for a player. If that was me, I would be to embarassed saying that because it sounds so BAD...like a snake oil salesman because we as players KNOW that is just hype to get people to play more..to try and catch that ONE good hit , but at what cost?????
Again, no disprespect, just wanted to let you know how this comes across to the average player that has been there before...and knows a lot better now..

So get those darn regular games for us and we will be back ...and happily donating again...especially when we get thrown a bone or two in the process...

.

 

[LOOKAWAY]

Hi Enzo, why do you use tourney play on your charts? This don't make any sense to me and is very misleading for a real money play.

 

[skiny]

Hi LonelyHearts,

You seem to have some type of misunderstanding. High variance slots, generate less play-through, and so they make the casino _less_ money, not more .. From the casino point of view, more spins just means more houseedge. We have always had the player in mind, which is exactly why so far we have only created high-variance slot machines. They produce more withdraws, at the cost of playtime.

It is exactly the repeated requests from customers for lower variance slot games that has now put our focus on that, even though I keep trying to explain that high-variance is in the advantage of the player.

Variance in either way is unrelated to the RTP of the games, which you can check Old / Expired Link. On a low variance machine, wins are typically more frequent but smaller, resulting in more average play before cashout amounts are reached. Resulting in more accumulated edge for the house. I keep trying to explain the workings of this, but over time I have come to appreciate the other side of it to .. (i.e. some players rather get more playtime and work with much smaller cashout limits - even if that means more house edge is accumulated.).

Kindest regards,

Enzo

I think I misunderstand too. High variance slots means you can win very big but the chances of winning anything are slim. That's fine if that's the type of game you want to play. Although I don't think a lot of players have that kind of patience or bankroll to watch the slots hit zero 19 out of 20 times for months on end.

Now high variance slots have less playthough so they might be better for the entire player base as a whole but individually things are a little different. The fact that the casino makes less money does not translate into me making more money. Unless I'm the person who finally gets that one good hit. It might happen tomorrow and it might never happen but the odds are really not very good it will happen soon. If I deposit 100 dollars and play for 6 months or play for 6 minutes I still lost 100 dollars regardless of what the casino made off it.

 

[Zoozie]

Hi LonelyHearts,

You seem to have some type of misunderstanding. High variance slots, generate less play-through, and so they make the casino _less_ money, not more .. From the casino point of view, more spins just means more houseedge. We have always had the player in mind, which is exactly why so far we have only created high-variance slot machines. They produce more withdraws, at the cost of playtime.

Variance in either way is unrelated to the RTP of the games, which you can check Old / Expired Link. On a low variance machine, wins are typically more frequent but smaller, resulting in more average play before cashout amounts are reached. Resulting in more accumulated edge for the house. I keep trying to explain the workings of this, but over time I have come to appreciate the other side of it to .. (i.e. some players rather get more playtime and work with much smaller cashout limits - even if that means more house edge is accumulated.).

Kindest regards,

Enzo

Very good explanation and I also guarantee Enzo is right. I also prefer high variance slots for exactly this reason. As an example, try
imagine the lowest variance slot possible. That is a slot what would return 96% of your bet-size on EVERY bet. (that is 0.24$ on a 0.25$ bet. etc). You are certain your money would last a very long time, but I doubt anyone would find this slot very fun...

 

[3Dice]

Silc, Skiny,

Bear with me here - it really isn't that difficult to see, lets use a simplified example. Lets assume we have 100 people depositing $10, for simplification, they will all either play to bust or withdraw when they get to $75 or more. We'll compare two slots, both 96% rtp, one low variance, and one high variance ..


low variance 96% rtp game. (chance of 1 in 2 to win 1.92 times betsize)

100 people deposit $10
50 lose $10
50 win $19.2

of those 50 winners ..

25 lose $19.2
25 win $36.8

of those 25 winners ..

12.5 lose $36.8
12.5 win $70.7

of those 12.5 winners ..

6.25 lose $70.7
6.25 win $135 and withdraw

players get : $843.75 (6.25 * $135)
casino gets : $156.25

So from those 100, 6.25 people withdraw, 50 had little to no playtime and 43.75 had more playtime but still ended up losing. From those 50 that lose without playtime, lets say 2 are likely to complain at cm




high variance 96% rtp game. (chance of 1 in 10 to win 9.6 times betsize)

100 people deposit $10
90 lose $10
10 win $96 and withdraw

players get : $960 (10 * $96)
casino gets: $40


So from those 100, now 10 withdraw, but 90 had less average playtime and 4 of them are likely to complain at cm .

Hope that clears things up !

I asked how much money have 3dice taken in. I remember when u was a small casino just trying to get your feet wet.

Lonelyhearts,

In the example above : $40

Hi Enzo, why do you use tourney play on your charts? This don't make any sense to me and is very misleading for a real money play.

LookAway,

Thanks. Made me realize that the screenshots indeed also display tourneywins - (they come from the highscorebot in chat). The entire
zeitgeist page is based on real-money play so I'll change the screenshot bot to only accept real-money screenshots to.




Cheers,

Enzo

 

[skiny]

Except for the fact that it's "chance to win" so the reality could just as well be 100 people deposit 10 dollars - 98 lose 10 dollars - 2 win 96 dollars and withdraw.

Players get 192.

 

[silcnlayc]

Thank you Enzo for the scenerio....but all in all, we know it takes over 1000's of people to deposit, for one or two to withdraw with the way the slots are now...just as it did at the other casino I was talking about...they had very FEW winners also...and they also were accredited (not that, that is a bad thing if one won, but the chances of that were slim to none too)

Again, I will say, when the changes come, I will be standing in line to come back to play...but regretfully at this time, I will have to abstain...


.

 

[skiny]

lets say 2 are likely to complain at cm

and 4 of them are likely to complain at cm .

I'm not entirely sure this was necessary. If you read the entire thread you would see that this is a discussion about several aspects of the casino including which games people prefer playing and several compliments by me about your service and your support staff.

The fact that some people disagree with you about who profits from very high variance games isn't necessarily a complaint. We come here to discuss many things. This just happens to be one of them.

 

[3Dice]

Hey Skiny,

I was just joking - after ample attempts to explain high variance is actually bad for me - good for you - I try to keep things light. No offense was intended and my apologies if it came across as such.

Cheers,

Enzo.

 

[skiny]

Hey Skiny,

I was just joking - ater ample attempts to explain high variance is actually bad for me - good for you - I try to keep things light. No offense was intended and my apologies if it came across as such.

Cheers,

Enzo.

OK. We're cool.

 

[silcnlayc]

after ample attempts to explain high variance

It's ok Enzo...we see the same picture differently because we are on different sides of the mirror...

When it takes over $5000 to withdraw $600(at the other high variance casino), there is no way this can be "good" for a player (the high variance stuff).

So, lets agree to disagree on this...and maybe I will get some slush funds from the other casinos to visit you every once in a while...

And keep you in line on your promise of slots for us "little guys that like to win a little and play a lot"


.

 

[Mavin1]

Okay, I'm reading this post about High Variance versus Low Variance. I always thought High Variance meant, it will be a cold day in hades before you win anything and Low Variance meant, you may win if you hold you tongue just right, have a lucky rabbits foot in your left pocket, feet crossed and don't cross paths with a black cat or walk under a ladder.

 

[skiny]

Low variance means you get to spin again 15 minutes after you deposit.

 

[silcnlayc]

Mavin1:Okay, I'm reading this post about High Variance versus Low Variance. I always thought High Variance meant, it will be a cold day in hades before you win anything and Low Variance meant, you may win if you hold you tongue just right, have a lucky rabbits foot in your left pocket, feet crossed and don't cross paths with a black cat or walk under a ladder.

You read it right......and you are actually right on both fronts...

.

 

[Mavin1]

Low variance means you get to spin again 15 minutes after you deposit.

Do you mean the reels are constipated?

 

[skiny]

Do you mean the reels are constipated?

No, the low variance games are the opposite of constipated.

It's the high variance that keep eating the coins but never let anything back out.

 

[trade]

3D High Variance

As much as I enjoy the support at 3Dice, I often wonder about this "high variance" theory. If you look at the winner screen shots, there are many "high variance" slot wins with MG and others. They seem to happen at least as often for me as they do at 3D, without the more frequent low to nil wins inbetween. I am not sure how 3D really differs from what's out there with the exception of longer dry spells and poor paybacks most of the time (unless you are a newer player- wins are most definitely cyclical from my experience!)

Certainly when I have on occasion hit free spins at 3D I have had my share of poor pay backs such as 10X bets, even after very long dry spells.

I hit this last week at MG- 833+ X win. I hit the same thing at another MG with a $1.80 bet. Should MG slots be called HV as well?? I would like to understand how you differentiate yourself from what's out there already, aside from your great and responsive support staff. I think others could post screenshots that suck upon finally hitting bonus rounds at 3D. Just trying to keep you honest Enzo!

 

[LaHutti]

As much as I enjoy the support at 3Dice, I often wonder about this "high variance" theory. If you look at the winner screen shots, there are many "high variance" slot wins with MG and others. They seem to happen at least as often for me as they do at 3D, without the more frequent low to nil wins inbetween. I am not sure how 3D really differs from what's out there with the exception of longer dry spells and poor paybacks most of the time (unless you are a newer player- wins are most definitely cyclical from my experience!)

Certainly when I have on occasion hit free spins at 3D I have had my share of poor pay backs such as 10X bets, even after very long dry spells.

I hit this last week at MG- 833+ X win. I hit the same thing at another MG with a $1.80 bet. Should MG slots be called HV as well?? I would like to understand how you differentiate yourself from what's out there already, aside from your great and responsive support staff. I think others could post screenshots that suck upon finally hitting bonus rounds at 3D. Just trying to keep you honest Enzo!

Yes, that specific slot at MG is high variance, where other MG slots are low variance.....that's the ones you probably only wanna play for 10 minutes
High variance is not "theory" btw ...it's math.

 

[silcnlayc]

High variance is not "theory" btw ...it's math.

But it is a math on ASSUMPTIONS, not fact. If it was true math, then we would all have the same results at some given time and we do not.

So, to me high variance means nothing...it is just another word being used instead of the lame excuse of "you are having a bad run" thing that we used to hear and was used and you no longer see much anymore , now isn't that odd?? The word play casinos and others us to suit their purpose and when one saying goes out another pops in and others pick up on??

Variance and standard deviation are just different ways of expressing the same thing - variance is more likely to be used in more advanced applications of statistics, but standard deviation is the more "natural" (certainly the most common in practical use) parameter because The mean is just the "average" of a lot of data,

NOT FACTS.......just another word for, yea, so sorry, you will lose but you MIGHT hit something in the next millenium...We can't prove that you will win but you just might!!

I said it before and I will say it again..it is all hogwash to try and prove something that is NOT there..and a means to make more money by stroking those that believe in this....until they go broke..

Sorry to be so butt headed on this word, but I actually HATE that term when used by so many that have no idea that it is just another come on as I said before...

I will stick with the casinos that give back a little and allow me to play a lot and withdraw a little ...that is what a real casino is about, not sucking you dry and saying "oops" didn't you know we are "high variance" Geeze....

DISCLAIMER: No offense is meant to anyone! This is just my opinion and I do not want it regarded as a slam on anyone..whatever one wants to believe, I am all for that..all is good here..

.

 

[De Beuker]

I like high variance slots to be honest.
If you play them, try playing them at low stakes.
I see so many people playing Scary Rich at $2 per spin with a $100 bankroll and then complaining they never win..no wonder.
The higher your bets, the higher the variance.
These slots can still payout huge, even on low stakes.
I once won 1150 on Break da Bank Again from a 0.27 spin, thats the upside of high variance
I admit I get sick and tired sometimes from losing deposit after deposit at Rival or RTG, but if I can cashout its usually a very nice sum.

 

[zap987]

I can't wait for Enzo to make the slot that always pays back 95c on a $1 spin every time, there seems to be plenty of mathematically challenged people that would prefer that to a real chance of winning.

Math is math, no amount of word spewing is going to change what is true.

 

[silcnlayc]

Math is math, no amount of word spewing is going to change what is true.

You are right, EXACT math is math, not generalities or assumptive math as VARIANCE means....it means just that (maybe's)..you might get it, you might not..it comes from vary...yes???

I would take 95 cents on a dollar any day....lately it has been 24 cents on dollar...it is called variance ? Yes? How long can one be happy with 24 cents on the dollar??? I would love to "catch" one of those big ones...don't get me wrong...but I don't want to spend $50,000 to catch that $20,000 HIGH variance slot and say whoopee....I won???? Um, no...Give me a nice decent hit...once in a while and I will be more than happy..

I can't wait for Enzo to make the slot that always pays back 95c on a $1 spin every time, there seems to be plenty of mathematically challenged people that would prefer that to a real chance of winning.

Well, I guess am one of those mathmatically challenged kind of people I guess , cause I would rather have this than a hope and a prayer anyday:


...if I blew $1000 a week...and was almost guaranteed $950 back...that would be GREAT! Whereas if I blew $1000 a week and finally catch a good one like that $20,000 on week 63.....I would have invested...um....you can do the REAL math here... To each their own...I prefer smaller wins and longer play with a nice doozy of a win once in a while (which actually happens on regular slots (without the high in it) mind you, and those are gifts!). But touting high variance is GOOD for a player is a little much I think...again, no offense , just opinion..
.

 

[skiny]

I can't wait for Enzo to make the slot that always pays back 95c on a $1 spin every time, there seems to be plenty of mathematically challenged people that would prefer that to a real chance of winning.

Math is math, no amount of word spewing is going to change what is true.

Math is math but we're not dealing with absolutes. We're dealing with random occurrences and odds. High variance basically means the possibility of good wins but the certainty of bad odds. Gambling is gambling and no matter what the "variance" there is no certainty of a win. But all slot games have decent payouts in the upper half of the pay table and the odds of me hitting one are a lot better if I'm spinning my deposit for 3 hours than they are if I'm spinning for 3 minutes. Like I said before if you want to play the so called high variance games you need a big bank roll and a lot of patience. I don't really have much of either.

 

[skiny]

55 two coin spins in Happy Valley and Payola. 4 won slightly more than my wager. I think the highest win was a buck. That's high variance.