3Dice casino - Any thoughts?

[me_and_ed]

Well, i tried with 20 Euro and.... here: pic 2 & 3 = same, but without x25

Me like it!

Well I would consider yourself very lucky, I played the Tut slot, the identical paytable as ISIS from M/G, that is where the similarities end, $120.00 balance, all spins either.50c or .25c, hit to features, 20 games x6, first one 226 coins, second one 86 coins, this is another clip joint with crap payouts!! Stay far away!!

 

[lojo]

'Clip Joint' seems a little harsh. I've had runs far worse than that on a dozen or more MG slots, scads of times. Maybe there is a difference between fun mode and real money @3dice, I don't know. I won't deposit there until they have an acceptable auditing system. Please keep in mind the first seven posts in this thread. (the 1st and the 7th)

My opinion is that they shouldn't have launched without having all their poop in one sock, but they did.

Are there any Belgian members who may know the terrestial counterparts of 3dice? They might shed some light. Are there any Industry people following that part of the EU? Are the management and development of the online casino related to the groundworks? I don't have a clue.

Until they have accountability and actually start marketing I'll reserve judgement. But I'll keep in mind that they responded here and offered more info than they seemed to need to.

btw the novelty has worn off of my initial impression (time and exposure to Imperial 3D helped, as well as my ego as an artist) but I still like the graphics on Tut, for the most part.

I hope your spins tonight make you happy, wherever you play

 

[3Dice]

'Clip Joint' seems a little harsh. I've had runs far worse than that on a dozen or more MG slots, scads of times. Maybe there is a difference between fun mode and real money @3dice, I don't know. I won't deposit there until they have an acceptable auditing system. Please keep in mind the first seven posts in this thread. (the 1st and the 7th)

Thanks lojo, the tut slot is (just like isis) a very high variance slot, so you
can have both real lucky as well as unlucky runs. Obviously, its much easier
for us to proove our good intentions when a player wins, but unfortunately,
not all players win ..

Which brings us back to third party auditing, very high on our priority list,
and obviously something of which we underestimated the importance. In land
based casinos, licensing and machine homologation takes care of that
problem, a situation regretably different for online casinos.

btw the novelty has worn off of my initial impression (time and exposure to Imperial 3D helped, as well as my ego as an artist) but I still like the graphics on Tut, for the most part.

Thanks lojo, I hope the new slots we have ligned up will re-spark your initial enthusiasm !

I hope your spins tonight make you happy, wherever you play

We second that.

Regards,

the 3Dice team.

 

[tencardcharlie]

From my own personal experience, those guys are good.

I have also tried out this place. I took their high roller bonus, played mostly blackjack and made a big withdrawal.

I couldn't withdraw to neteller immediately though, because they had to refund their neteller account. They were very helpful in making a bank wire withdrawal instead. Recieved my €1500 without trouble. I also played the dice slot and I must say I was lucky, so I would not jump to conclusions about slot payouts.

Support was very helpful and sent REAL replies, instead of the canned, unhelpful responses starting with "Thank you for choosing XYZ casino" that I often experience. Also their neteller withdrawals (when available ) are instant, as pstn.. mentioned - not instant like "only takes a few hours but really instant.

 

[Nifty29]

I do like the software - its very different and very smooth (for me) and that has to be a good thing. There seems to be a lot of complaints about RTG and Microgaming slot payouts lately so if 3Dice can get a good list of unique bonus slots happening I would be there with bells on.

Kudos to 3Dice for attending these forums and providing professional customer service.

Cant wait for the new slots - any hint when we might see them??? (and if the coin size will be variable??)

 

[me_and_ed]

'Clip Joint' seems a little harsh. I've had runs far worse than that on a dozen or more MG slots, scads of times. Maybe there is a difference between fun mode and real money @3dice, I don't know. I won't deposit there until they have an acceptable auditing system. Please keep in mind the first seven posts in this thread. (the 1st and the 7th)

My opinion is that they shouldn't have launched without having all their poop in one sock, but they did.

Are there any Belgian members who may know the terrestial counterparts of 3dice? They might shed some light. Are there any Industry people following that part of the EU? Are the management and development of the online casino related to the groundworks? I don't have a clue.

Until they have accountability and actually start marketing I'll reserve judgement. But I'll keep in mind that they responded here and offered more info than they seemed to need to.

btw the novelty has worn off of my initial impression (time and exposure to Imperial 3D helped, as well as my ego as an artist) but I still like the graphics on Tut, for the most part.

I hope your spins tonight make you happy, wherever you play

You think it is a little harsh, what would you consider to be the most important part of an online operation? I would say trust, trust that the games are fair, trust that you are getting paid, if you were starting your casino and invested many hours and dollars would you not have some form of payout verification, some third party auditing, I would.

 

[lojo]

You think it is a little harsh, what would you consider to be the most important part of an online operation? I would say trust, trust that the games are fair, trust that you are getting paid, if you were starting your casino and invested many hours and dollars would you not have some form of payout verification, some third party auditing, I would.

Agreed. But their current lack of an external auditor doesn't mean they are thieves.

Hope you have better luck today

 

[me_and_ed]

Agreed. But their current lack of an external auditor doesn't mean they are thieves.

Hope you have better luck today

No, you are correct, I wish there was never any online casino wrong doing, then I would still profess the innocent until proven guilty theory, unfortunately that is not the case, I hope they are above board, time will tell, I will observe from the other side of the fence on this one.

 

[lojo]

Me too.

 

[AussieDave]

Well I would consider yourself very lucky, I played the Tut slot, the identical paytable as ISIS from M/G, that is where the similarities end, $120.00 balance, all spins either.50c or .25c, hit to features, 20 games x6, first one 226 coins, second one 86 coins, this is another clip joint with crap payouts!! Stay far away!!

After much talk I decided to give this place a try too. After all one can't gain a true perspective.

I've played in both real play & also took part in a couple of their slot comps.

In so far as the Tut slot, there is a lot of eye candy but after that, I agree with me_and_ed, IMHO it's a pretty pathetic slot.

Granted it is a high variance slot, but, with no auditing & nothing to certify these slots are legit, I wont drop another dime here; least with Isis I know it's audited and I feel I have a chance of winning! Unfortunately I can't say the same with Tut Slot or any of their slots for that matter.

On a plus though, their Video Poker seems to pay out pretty well. Though, I've found if one game is not paying you need to change games.

 

[lojo]

After much talk I decided to give this place a try too. After all one can't gain a true perspective.

I've played in both real play & also took part in a couple of their slot comps.

In so far as the Tut slot, there is a lot of eye candy but after that, I agree with me_and_ed, IMHO it's a pretty pathetic slot.

Granted it is a high variance slot, but, with no auditing & nothing to certify these slots are legit, I wont drop another dime here; least with Isis I know it's audited and I feel I have a chance of winning! Unfortunately I can't say the same with Tut Slot or any of their slots for that matter.

On a plus though, their Video Poker seems to pay out pretty well. Though, I've found if one game is not paying you need to change games.

I can only imagine how difficult this business would be to enter. It really is the new frontier if you're not one of the 'good old boys' (Not that it would be easy to set up a MG shack or a kentucky fried franchise)

The little I know of it this industry is changing.

Trezz, you've 'outed' these guys for better or worse as OP on this thread.
I'm curious, how were they marketed to you? Were they looking for feedback, was it an affiliate invitation.. personal/private, misspeak?

If I were in their shoes now would I certify with ecogra or sumsuch? (the threads are not boding well for such in certain instances) Would I hire moneytree (PWC) or the wizard's hand me down? (no offense dude)? What the hell would I do? I don't know this industry, and its certainly nothing that can be googled.

For now, I'm looking at several feedbacks here on BET/RETURN. Not graphics.
Soda sez
10cc sez
errl sez
nifty?

Three or four players saying good, one player saying ouch, and one holding his position.

Variance?

Maybe all their ducks weren't together for a 'perfect' launch. But I'm hoping that you did them a favor and got them on the stick, Trezz.
Looks like 50/50. I'm going with the fifty

 

[tennis_balls]

i gave their intro offer a whirl.

i liked their games. their customer service was great and instantaneous via live chat.

one thing to beware of is that with some of their games you have be careful on your wager amount.....i was intending to play $20 solitaire and i accidentally played $104 solitaire.

they have a huge variety of video poker and have one game that's pretty close to microgaming's All Aces (though i think MGs paytable is slightly higher for 4OAK)

i didn't spend much time with their slots. i thought the graphics were ok, but certainly not in MG's league. I hit one bonus round on the Egyptian slot and I think it paid 54x.

 

[tennis_balls]

i pointed out a software glitch yesterday to 3dice.

today i received a very generous comp with no WR. IMHO that's usually an indication of a solid outfit.

 

[Richtree7]

I played at 3 Dice yesterday...

and had a little trouble with the craps game. After informing management about the trouble.... I received a WR $20 comp
No wins yet but I will continue to try. There craps graphic is unique and I like that.

 

[lancia]

Free competitions

I've been participating in their free competitions, some restricted to particular games and others open. I've been amazed at the high scores of the competition winners because I have barely managed to double my starting stake at any point in the competition. I've always ended up with 0 credits while chasing the winners. But last weekend's competition ending this morning was different. Starting with $1,000 comp credits, I managed to hang in there with about $1,900 by playing slots (tut), blackjack, and video poker. But the leaders had $8,000 to $9,000 in comps and time was running out, with only 7 hours left. So, I decided to play single-hand jacks or better at $25 per hand (not something I'm likely to do with real money). After 10 minutes or so, I drew to a royal flush and hit it for $20,000. That put me in first place, where I stand to win the prize of $40. I don't know whether to be happy or sad!

I have grown fond of this casino while participating in the free competitions. As a video poker fan, I like the wide choice of games, though their multi-hand games are a bit slow. The slots variety is too small at this time. But the squirrel slot seems to have a decent payoff because of the bonus rounds, and the tut slot, like any high variance slot, can produce great returns if one plays long enough.

 

[tristan727]

If their rep is still here, he may wanna read this. I signed up with your casino a few months ago, and lost my deposit after an hour or so of decent gameplay (makes a nice change from the usual MG, Playtech, crypto etc.) I then, however, completely forgot that your casino even existed, until noticed this thread just now. Really should send out newsletters or something, if not to entice - then at least to remind!

 

[lojo]

I get the feeling they aren't going to market strongly yet. But yeah, a nice little email with an invite now and then would be sweet, especially for inaguaral players like you

 

[3Dice]

I have grown fond of this casino while participating in the free competitions. As a video poker fan, I like the wide choice of games, though their multi-hand games are a bit slow.

Thanks for your kind words lancia, I'm glad you like the competitions. Have you tried putting the multihand videopoker speed on 'turbo' ? (Its in the 'gears' menu, top left corner of the screen.)

If their rep is still here, he may wanna read this. I signed up with your casino a few months ago, and lost my deposit after an hour or so of decent gameplay (makes a nice change from the usual MG, Playtech, crypto etc.) I then, however, completely forgot that your casino even existed, until noticed this thread just now. Really should send out newsletters or something, if not to entice - then at least to remind!

I get the feeling they aren't going to market strongly yet. But yeah, a nice little email with an invite now and then would be sweet, especially for inaguaral players like you

Thanks tristan727, lojo, point well taken. We are indeed, very consciously, not yet doing any large-scale marketing. Early detection by 'the meister radar' has
given us the opportunity to gather some pro-player feedback early on. 3Dice is not in the market to be another fish in the pond. We intend to do things right, and that means we are working hard on incorporating all the feedback received so far.

We really understand and even appreciate the impatience, although I believe everyone will prefer good over fast ..

on second thought .. *cracks the whip*

 

[lancia]

Video Poker Auto-hold Flaw?

Thanks for the helpful responses to our posts, 3Dice. One other comment I want to make concerns the auto-hold software in the video poker games. It seems to me that some of the hold decisions are not the best. For example, given the hand AH, KH, 8H, 6C, and QS in Jacks or Better Poker, the 3Dice auto-hold feature keeps the AH, KH, and 8H. According to the software WinPoker, the best choice is to hold AH and KH. I have played thousands of video poker hands on Microgaming software, and I believe its auto-hold would also keep just the AH and KH. The 3Dice software uses the same apparently less-than-optimal strategy in a Jacks or Better hand with 3 cards to a royal flush. The auto-hold consistently keeps a fourth card to a flush instead of discarding that fourth card and drawing 2 cards to the royal flush.

 

[3Dice]

Thanks for the helpful responses to our posts, 3Dice. One other comment I want to make concerns the auto-hold software in the video poker games. It seems to me that some of the hold decisions are not the best. For example, given the hand AH, KH, 8H, 6C, and QS in Jacks or Better Poker, the 3Dice auto-hold feature keeps the AH, KH, and 8H. According to the software WinPoker, the best choice is to hold AH and KH. I have played thousands of video poker hands on Microgaming software, and I believe its auto-hold would also keep just the AH and KH. The 3Dice software uses the same apparently less-than-optimal strategy in a Jacks or Better hand with 3 cards to a royal flush. The auto-hold consistently keeps a fourth card to a flush instead of discarding that fourth card and drawing 2 cards to the royal flush.

Hey Lancia,

If you tell me what ruleset you saw this in, I will have our engineer verify this immeadiately. The autohold in the 3Dice software is designed to give you the absolute perfect play strategy, and the numbers should work out, even if it feels slightly 'not natural' .. sometimes the combined odds to get some of the lower combinations will simply yield a bigger return than taking the odds for the big win ..

Kind regards,

 

[lancia]

Hey Lancia,

If you tell me what ruleset you saw this in, I will have our engineer verify this immeadiately. The autohold in the 3Dice software is designed to give you the absolute perfect play strategy, and the numbers should work out, even if it feels slightly 'not natural' .. sometimes the combined odds to get some of the lower combinations will simply yield a bigger return than taking the odds for the big win ..

Kind regards,

What is a ruleset? Can I simply send a screenshot example to the casino with its "Send screenshot function"? Will that work?

 

[3Dice]

Hey lancia,

The rule-set is e.g. jacks or better or deuces wild etc .. it determines the paytable and thus also the perfect playing strategy. Sending a screenshot to your My3Dice will do just fine !

Kind Regards,

 

[lancia]

3Dice, if you check my post you will see that I specified jacks or better poker. But I will also send an example of a screenshot that illustrates the point.

 

[3Dice]

3Dice, if you check my post you will see that I specified jacks or better poker. But I will also send an example of a screenshot that illustrates the point.

Hey lancia, sorry must've read over that the first time. I've had our engineers do the math, and it seems indeed that the choice would be to go for the flush (holding 3 cards) when you are playing 1-4 coins and not (holding only two cards) if playing at 5 coins. This will be corrected, thanks for bringing it to our attention!

 

[lancia]

Very good, 3Dice. Thanks. I assumed a 5-coin bet, which returns the maximum amount possible for a royal flush.

 

[thenmh]

I tried 3Dice today and encountered 2 problems:
1. The maximum bet for blackjack and roulette was only 50 euros for me

2. Wagering requirements carry over to next deposits even if you lose the first deposit and bonus. When I busted with my first deposit + bonus, I made a second deposit (to recover my loss ) and won but the software didn't let me withdraw stating that I didn't complete the wagering requirements. I talked to live help and they will submit a ticket to the financial department and hopefully get back to me soon.

One positive note is that the background music is better than in other casinos

 

[3Dice]

I tried 3Dice today and encountered 2 problems:
1. The maximum bet for blackjack and roulette was only 50 euros for me

2. Wagering requirements carry over to next deposits even if you lose the first deposit and bonus. When I busted with my first deposit + bonus, I made a second deposit (to recover my loss ) and won but the software didn't let me withdraw stating that I didn't complete the wagering requirements. I talked to live help and they will submit a ticket to the financial department and hopefully get back to me soon.

One positive note is that the background music is better than in other casinos

Hey thenmh,

Thanks for your play, I really hope you enjoyed it.

For clarity, wagering requirements DO NOT cary over to next deposits, with the very short time between your deposits it had not yet been reset. It has now however, so you can withdraw your winnings at your convenience.

Then, as far as the WR goes, 3Dice.com gives a 110% signup bonus, so that players can try the casino for real and get some more play for their money. Instead of giving insane wagering requirements, the bonus policy includes a table limit of 50 ($/euro/pounds). This eliminates a number of abuse scenarios while keeping the WR at a reasonable rate for players that do take the bonus to get more fun. If you deposit a 100 and take the bonus, playing a single 200 hand hardly qualifies as trying to get more play ..

With the WR cleared, the table limit in Roulette is 900 and 300 in Blackjack.

Kind Regards,

The 3Dice team.

 

[Nifty29]

I only have praise for 3Dice so far - did my first cashout today to Neteller - and it was INSTANT!....YAY!!.....this is a big plus for them and other casinos should start taking notice.

Video Poker and Tutankhamen were kind to me which was nice

Looking forward to some new slots!

Also, 3Dice should be given credit for being very active in these forums, which is a good sign.

 

[3Dice]

Bonus System Sugestion.

Quite a long post here, I'm posting a bit out of frustration. Frustration caused by the signup bonus system. On one side, I have the techs working full time on tracking down israeli bonus hunters with 20, 30 or more accounts, and on the other side, I see returning players, even small players that never claim the bonus. We are forced to implement more and more strict wagering requirements, identity controls, and it seems to be scaring off more and more players that do not create multiple accounts, and that do play by the rules.

So what is the use of a bonus system like that ? Is it still in the interest of the people that play by the rules ? Are they not the ones that deserve both the entire budget for that as well as the techs full attention ?

The argument that is keeping the signup bonus system in place is to get more play, especially on the typical smaller first deposit. To give the player a chance to experience the casino with the thrill of real money, without having to put up the full initial budget.

We have a sugestion for a different bonus system and I would love to hear what the thoughts about it are.

The main things we want to establish is that there's no more fuzz with wagering requirements, or identity controls. We also have to establish more play, and we want the full bonus budget allocated to those who deserve it most. The idea would be to double up the initial deposit. That effectively
doubles your play. If you run out of luck and loose the combined budget, no problem .. ..if you draw the royal flush .. no silly wagering requirements or strip-down-to-your-underwear identity checks, but playing with 50% the casino's money, your withdraw is restricted to half the win.

A system like that effectively doubles your play and removes wagering requirements. On top of that, it takes budget away from bonus hunters that can now be spent on non fraudulent players .. If you loose, no prob, and if you hit big, there's no ID huslle and no questions asked.

just a sugestion .. thoughts ?

 

[lojo]

Simple, elegant solution imho.

As long as taking the bonus is a choice upfront, and not something I would have to request to be removed.

I'll be looking forward to the rest of the feedback.

You guys are amazing, it's like saying, 'Hey, we're building something here, how would you like it to work?' I see you getting a loyal following with this approach, it gives th eplayer a sense of 'ownership'. Keep it up

 

[thenmh]

... On top of that, it takes budget away from bonus hunters that can now be spent on non fraudulent players .. If you loose, no prob, and if you hit big, there's no ID huslle and no questions asked

Bonus hunters that respect the rules should not be confused with fraudulent players.

 

[3Dice]

Bonus hunters that respect the rules should not be confused with fraudulent players.

Absolutely, wrong phrasing .. I'm refering to ppl who create 30 accounts to get 30 times the bonus someone fair gets .. (fair being obeying the one account rule)

 

[jetset]

Quite a long post here, I'm posting a bit out of frustration. Frustration caused by the signup bonus system. On one side, I have the techs working full time on tracking down israeli bonus hunters with 20, 30 or more accounts, and on the other side, I see returning players, even small players that never claim the bonus. We are forced to implement more and more strict wagering requirements, identity controls, and it seems to be scaring off more and more players that do not create multiple accounts, and that do play by the rules.

So what is the use of a bonus system like that ? Is it still in the interest of the people that play by the rules ? Are they not the ones that deserve both the entire budget for that as well as the techs full attention ?

The argument that is keeping the signup bonus system in place is to get more play, especially on the typical smaller first deposit. To give the player a chance to experience the casino with the thrill of real money, without having to put up the full initial budget.

We have a sugestion for a different bonus system and I would love to hear what the thoughts about it are.

The main things we want to establish is that there's no more fuzz with wagering requirements, or identity controls. We also have to establish more play, and we want the full bonus budget allocated to those who deserve it most. The idea would be to double up the initial deposit. That effectively
doubles your play. If you run out of luck and loose the combined budget, no problem .. ..if you draw the royal flush .. no silly wagering requirements or strip-down-to-your-underwear identity checks, but playing with 50% the casino's money, your withdraw is restricted to half the win.

A system like that effectively doubles your play and removes wagering requirements. On top of that, it takes budget away from bonus hunters that can now be spent on non fraudulent players .. If you loose, no prob, and if you hit big, there's no ID huslle and no questions asked.

just a sugestion .. thoughts ?

That sounds to me like a solution that might just work - certainly you're facing a very common operator problem in an industry where the bonus tends to generate most of the complaints, mostly due to operators getting pissed off that players who take a bonus don't stay loyal.

You clearly have a good grasp of what's going on and understand that bonus hunters who play within the T&Cs are not *bonus abusers* or for that matter crooks, which is a common operator misconception that too frequently leads to unfair bonus disqualification decisions.

The casino draws up the rules (T&Cs) and should meet its obligations under those rules. If it doesn't like the manner in which a player comports him or herself it can lock that player out - first paying what is due.

Very few people in the industry have any time for fraudsters like chargebackers or multi-account crooks, but all too often the wrong people are victimised by irate and frustrated operators/managers who want more from players than they asked for in their T&Cs.

I think Lojo's point about the bonus being optional and upfront is also worth re-emphasising.

btw (and I am not an Israeli) this multi account crap can come from other geographical locations too!

 

[Zoozie]

We have a sugestion for a different bonus system and I would love to hear what the thoughts about it are.

The main things we want to establish is that there's no more fuzz with wagering requirements, or identity controls. We also have to establish more play, and we want the full bonus budget allocated to those who deserve it most. The idea would be to double up the initial deposit. That effectively
doubles your play. If you run out of luck and loose the combined budget, no problem .. ..if you draw the royal flush .. no silly wagering requirements or strip-down-to-your-underwear identity checks, but playing with 50% the casino's money, your withdraw is restricted to half the win.

Basically that is not a bonus. If you deposit 100$ and get 100$ bonus and playing 1$/spin/bet/whatever, the situation is totally identical to
depositing 100$ and NOT receiving a bonus and betting 0.5$/spin/bet/whatever. And still you get the same amount of action before going bust.

ANY combination of outcomes of games will give identical result at withdrawal time. So that is a 'bogus' bonus actually. (*)

Reducing the signup bonus from 100$(100%) to 50$(100%) would still bring
interested players in and the bonus not be very attractive the frausters (I think).

The signup bonus is always problematic, but keeping the loyal players is what is important for the casino in the long run and they stay because of
the loyalty program, not sign-up bonus.

(*)
The only difference is in case of rapid fire progressive slots where bet-size increases chance to win the progressive, but 3Dice does not have such games yet.


Zoozie

 

[3Dice]

Basically that is not a bonus. If you deposit 100$ and get 100$ bonus and playing 1$/spin/bet/whatever, the situation is totally identical to
depositing 100$ and NOT receiving a bonus and betting 0.5$/spin/bet/whatever. And still you get the same amount of action before going bust.

ANY combination of outcomes of games will give identical result at withdrawal time. So that is a 'bogus' bonus actually. (*)

Reducing the signup bonus from 100$(100%) to 50$(100%) would still bring
interested players in and the bonus not be very attractive the frausters (I think).

The signup bonus is always problematic, but keeping the loyal players is what is important for the casino in the long run and they stay because of
the loyalty program, not sign-up bonus.

(*)
The only difference is in case of rapid fire progressive slots where bet-size increases chance to win the progressive, but 3Dice does not have such games yet.


Zoozie

Well, apart from e.g. the higher paytable on maxcoin in vp, you are right, and the net result of this is that with a fraud ratio of 10 to 1, the budget on the
loyaltee program would increase greatly.

I just thought of another possibility. What would you say Zoozie, if we offer something as above to "out-of-the-blue" players, but if you have a trackrecord in our competition system (a couple of hours of play), you qualify for a more interesting no-pain bonus system. (as you've 'physically' proven to be an individual). These multi-account setups are eating into your budget !!! I want to stop them and give that money to those that deserve it. We're open to any good sugestions, this is not just our problem ... it concerns all players that play by the rules.

 

[Zoozie]

Well, apart from e.g. the higher paytable on maxcoin in vp, you are right, and the net result of this is that with a fraud ratio of 10 to 1, the budget on the
loyaltee program would increase greatly.

I just thought of another possibility. What would you say Zoozie, if we offer something as above to "out-of-the-blue" players, but if you have a trackrecord in our competition system (a couple of hours of play), you qualify for a more interesting no-pain bonus system. (as you've 'physically' proven to be an individual). These multi-account setups are eating into your budget !!! I want to stop them and give that money to those that deserve it. We're open to any good sugestions, this is not just our problem ... it concerns all players that play by the rules.

I just have a problem with you calling it a signup-bonus. It is no bonus at all, the house edge is the same etc. If you really insist on calling it a bonus why not give a 9900% bonus, with the catch that at withdrawal balance is divided by 100? The result is the same. The last 2 digits of the balance is just bogus. Some players might think they actually are getting a bonus and that is misleading. Also players do not need more complicated T&C they need to figure out. It is a jungle already.

I fully understand the frustration the abusers are giving you and they should not receive a dime. Many casino simply do not give players from a certain country the signup-bonus.Maybe you can only accept credit-card from players from these countries, since fraud with these is really hard? Also I would cut the signup bonus to 50$ if I was you. Maybe when you are ready for the big launch AND have fraud measures ready, they you can go to 100$ again.


Also I a few casinos also actually called me on the phone to confirm my id. I know this would take some time, but the money saved would cover the time
used many many times. Besides if anyone answers just ask then questions about what games they played etc.. (in case of using RL proxy players when signing up). I know withdrawal time is a big issue and I agree it is important. However for the first withdrawal from a casino I would not mind a delay and I believe up to 2 weeks is acceptable. Some casinos want to see utility bills/bank-statement/passport.

For loyalty the best loyalty program I have seen is from the Roxy group. All players can get up to 15% bonus (up to 25$) twice a week. 'Silver Members' can get 25% up to 100$ etc. Top loyalty players get a 30% bonus I think. Status depend on wagering the previous months.

This is a better solution that both Bodog and now Sands/Omni uses. Bodog just give 10% to everyone while Sands/Omni give 100% up to 100$ if you played a lot (6000$ wager) the previous month.

The problem with the Bodog bonus is that loyal players gets no more than normal players and at Sands/Omni this bonus favors medium rollers since
low rollers never gets this bonus. The Omni/Sand bonus is pretty much equal to the 25% bonus at Roxy actually, but at Roxy low rollers and high rollers also gets something useful.

For loyalty bonus/promotions I think it is important to target both low/medium and high-rollers. The much used 'top 10 players with most wagered during promotion wins' is a really stupid promotion that I would never participate in (or have the money to participate).
The free competitions and how often people log in to play could be a good measure for loyalty.

I thought I have had for some time is to give loyal players better games (and maybe new games). Ie. a VP variant with 99.8% payout or even a slot with
98% payout! (maybe just adjust the paytable for an existing slot) Then people would actually be very interested in becoming a loyal player and would
feel special.

Zoozie

 

[3Dice]

Thanks Zoozie, for the feedback.

I just have a problem with you calling it a signup-bonus. It is no bonus at all, the house edge is the same etc. If you really insist on calling it a bonus why not give a 9900% bonus, with the catch that at withdrawal balance is divided by 100? The result is the same. The last 2 digits of the balance is just bogus. Some players might think they actually are getting a bonus and that is misleading. Also players do not need more complicated T&C they need to figure out. It is a jungle already.

So how to call it then ? Say you are standing outside of any brick and morter casino on the strip, only $50 in your pocket to play. Someone offers you an extra $50 to play with, its ok to loose, but if you win he wants half the win. I know how the odds work out, but you do get a $100 to play with, doubling the maximum amount of gameplay you get. (as the maximum amount of gameplay is the amount you get when you play at minimum stakes. Obviously, playing at higher stakes will give you less play for the same $$ .. ). And I agree that thats the only thing it does. Give you the possibility to double the maximum amount of gameplay you get. For a first time deposit, it'll let you discover more games, and try more stuff. And if on top of that it means better percentages for loyalty bonuses, than would that not be a good thing ?

I fully understand the frustration the abusers are giving you and they should not receive a dime. Many casino simply do not give players from a certain country the signup-bonus.Maybe you can only accept credit-card from players from these countries, since fraud with these is really hard? Also I would cut the signup bonus to 50$ if I was you. Maybe when you are ready for the big launch AND have fraud measures ready, they you can go to 100$ again.


Also I a few casinos also actually called me on the phone to confirm my id. I know this would take some time, but the money saved would cover the time
used many many times. Besides if anyone answers just ask then questions about what games they played etc.. (in case of using RL proxy players when signing up). I know withdrawal time is a big issue and I agree it is important. However for the first withdrawal from a casino I would not mind a delay and I believe up to 2 weeks is acceptable. Some casinos want to see utility bills/bank-statement/passport.

Well, I just see that effort as a big cost paid by the wrong people. Would a strategy that emphasises play on a brand new account and instead higher loyalty bonuses still be interesting for a player to make a first deposit at ?

For loyalty bonus/promotions I think it is important to target both low/medium and high-rollers. The much used 'top 10 players with most wagered during promotion wins' is a really stupid promotion that I would never participate in (or have the money to participate).

The free competitions and how often people log in to play could be a good measure for loyalty.

It's a measure for identity in the first place. It would mean a fraudulent person would have to play hours and hours and hours on each of his identity's .. If you're not in it for the fun it should hardly be worth the while ..

I thought I have had for some time is to give loyal players better games (and maybe new games). Ie. a VP variant with 99.8% payout or even a slot with
98% payout! (maybe just adjust the paytable for an existing slot) Then people would actually be very interested in becoming a loyal player and would
feel special.

That is indeed, a very interesting idea. I think we have some new slots coming up . Thanks Zoozie for all the feedback, very much so appreciated.

 

[Simmo!]

I thought I have had for some time is to give loyal players better games (and maybe new games). Ie. a VP variant with 99.8% payout or even a slot with
98% payout! (maybe just adjust the paytable for an existing slot) Then people would actually be very interested in becoming a loyal player and would
feel special.

Top idea

 

[Zoozie]

So how to call it then ? Say you are standing outside of any brick and morter casino on the strip, only $50 in your pocket to play. Someone offers you an extra $50 to play with, its ok to loose, but if you win he wants half the win. I know how the odds work out, but you do get a $100 to play with, doubling the maximum amount of gameplay you get. (as the maximum amount of gameplay is the amount you get when you play at minimum stakes. Obviously, playing at higher stakes will give you less play for the same $$ .. ). And I agree that thats the only thing it does. Give you the possibility to double the maximum amount of gameplay you get. For a first time deposit, it'll let you discover more games, and try more stuff. And if on top of that it means better percentages for loyalty bonuses, than would that not be a good thing ?

Well, I just see that effort as a big cost paid by the wrong people. Would a strategy that emphasises play on a brand new account and instead higher loyalty bonuses still be interesting for a player to make a first deposit at ?

B&M casinos are a little different since of the minimum bet at BlackJack is high. For online casinos it is not the same. Unless you expect someone to play
at LOWEST nomination etc. 0.20$ at a 20-line slots ALL THE TIME, then you are right it would increase play time, but if they play 0.40$ or more, the whole idea is gone. Anyway that is just my opinion, but I simply really dislike your 'bonus' idea.

If you can save just 100$ instead of giving them to frausters, I am sure spending 10 minutes is worth it(even several hours actually). In 10 minutes you can give them a phone call and also use an online webpage (most countries have one) where you can find people and check the address.

A 50$ or 100$ signup bonus would not make much difference to me, but I can not speak for all people of course. A sign up bonus IS important though. And I have no really good ideas here except better frauster capturing methods. Registering IP/Subdomains/country/MAC-address.

Claiming the bonus before depositing (RTG/Crypto/Rival etc) is a very good idea that would result in few bonus complaints. And you can change rules+T&C here instantly and stop a frauster country opposed to T&C on a webpage which always give complaints when changed.

To boost a slot for loyal players a good way is to increase top pay (5 wilds).
For most slots increasing it from 10000 to 1M would only increase payout by 3.8%! (ThunderStruck at MG). I never understood why 5 wilds always pays so little.

For JoB VP increasing RF to 4500 would give 99.8% payout and be the best 'Jack of Better' at online casinos. Would be good for marketing your casino.

For BJ there are also many ways to give loyal players something more.


Zoozie

 

[lojo]

Zoozie:

Basically that is not a bonus. If you deposit 100$ and get 100$ bonus and playing 1$/spin/bet/whatever, the situation is totally identical to
depositing 100$ and NOT receiving a bonus and betting 0.5$/spin/bet/whatever. And still you get the same amount of action before going bust.

This makes perfect sense to me, but does it assume playthrough to bust?

I do see the proposal as a bonus. Here's why:

I deposit $50, it is matched for a total of $100... I play through the first fifty, now I am playing with free money. I hit some good lines or a feature and decide to cash out. Had I not been playing with their money, I would have no cashout. Now I have 50% of something I would not have had before. Sweet.

Were I to hit a nice return in the first half of my bankroll, it may not be quite as attractive: Say I've spent $25, hit a 'jackpot' for $100, so my balance is $175. If I have to give up half of that to cash out I'll get $87.50. Still not bad, still some free money.

These are two potential circumstances where it looks attractive to me. I would be less pleased with the second one, because 'I didn't need their money to win, and now I have to give up half!?!" If I were to be of fair mind, however, I would be quite happy with the bonus. As long as I understood the possibility.

I'm assuming a fairly large win here, granted. Are there scenarios, without playing it all through where the return is not so attractive? Say, a bunch of small wins, or pushes?

 

[Zoozie]

Zoozie:
I do see the proposal as a bonus. Here's why:

I deposit $50, it is matched for a total of $100... I play through the first fifty, now I am playing with free money. I hit some good lines or a feature and decide to cash out. Had I not been playing with their money, I would have no cashout. Now I have 50% of something I would not have had before. Sweet.

You are wrong in your assumption that you are now playing with free money.
Because any winnings from the first 50$ you lose would only have paid 50% effectively. It adds up to same. Try my example with the 9900% bonus.
The EV from the bonus is the same as the house egde of the game you play and it is the same in all 3. cases:
1. No bonus
2. 100% bonus, and divide withdrawal by 2.
3. 9900% bonus and divide withdrawal by 100.

In your argument after you lost your 50$ deposit you would then have 9950$ left to play with, but it still comes down to the same.

This is a good example why I do not like this bonus. It is tricky and most players can not understand the full effect of it.

Zoozie

 

[Rusty]

Well done 3dice for opening up this thread and showing some genuine interest in how your players feel.
Here is my tuppenceworth on the bonus issue.
I would scrap the sign up bonus and offer a cashback bonus with no WR if the total deposit was lost and no withdrawal made.
The only added condition on receiving this cashback would be another deposit of at least the cashback amount.
I would start with say 20% cashback on the 1st deposit and increase this by 10% each following deposit, thus encouraging and rewarding loyalty.
You can do the sums of how many cashback offers could be made and how much(as regards risk management) but I feel this would be a much fairer system.
Also it is not open to abuse and while being attractive to the genuine player it would be of little use to "bonus abusers"
Obviously B&M casinos get a lot of local traffic which does not apply to remote Casinos so if you want loyalty you will have to give a little something extra back and sign up bonuses with T&C's a mile long are not the answer.

 

[lojo]

Well done 3dice for opening up this thread and showing some genuine interest in how your players feel.
Here is my tuppenceworth on the bonus issue.
I would scrap the sign up bonus and offer a cashback bonus with no WR if the total deposit was lost and no withdrawal made.
The only added condition on receiving this cashback would be another deposit of at least the cashback amount.
I would start with say 20% cashback on the 1st deposit and increase this by 10% each following deposit, thus encouraging and rewarding loyalty.
You can do the sums of how many cashback offers could be made and how much(as regards risk management) but I feel this would be a much fairer system.
Also it is not open to abuse and while being attractive to the genuine player it would be of little use to "bonus abusers"
Obviously B&M casinos get a lot of local traffic which does not apply to remote Casinos so if you want loyalty you will have to give a little something extra back and sign up bonuses with T&C's a mile long are not the answer.

The 'bonus' thing has to go. It has it's own 'industry'.

 

[Nifty29]

I think the Microgaming EziBonus system is a good one - you can withdraw deposit and winnings but the bonus is released in portions according to games played.

If you dont offer at least a 100% signup bonus of some kind, then it will be very difficult to get new players as it is pretty much the industry norm.

Another thought it that you could limit the withdraw from the signup bonus to $xxx, and keep the rest in a bonus balance for players to use when they deposit again. This would keep players coming back I would think.

Its a tough one - whatever you choose someone will find a way to abuse it I guess.