WinTingo's new cashback program

[wintingo]

Hi meister members,

I hope this post does not come across as too spammy but we wanted to open up a discussion with players to get their feedback regarding our new website. The new site sees the introduction of what we think is a ground-breaking new cashback rewards system called Cashpay.

Cashpay awards real money cashback on both winnings and losses on every wager on any game, in real time! As soon as a player earns cashback the money is immediately transferred into the player’s account. The cashback amount can be withdrawn at any time. The player can also withdraw their deposit at any time – without any wagering requirements.

Cashback is awarded on every deposit a player ever makes at WinTingo. New players get up to 65% back on their first deposit, no maximum.
Thereafter, all players get up to 30% back on every deposit made. Again, no maximum.

In addition to the launch of Cashpay, we added the entire suite of Microgaming quickfire games to our existing games portfolio and these games are all available under the Cashpay system.

We welcome feedback about the new site and in particular the cashpay program. Visit the

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website for further information.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: this was in the moderated queue for a couple of weeks while I was away - but now it's live

Anyway - this looks interesting. @everyone - I'd like to hear your feedback on this.

 

[wintingo]

Admin note: this was in the moderated queue for a couple of weeks while I was away - but now it's live

Anyway - this looks interesting. @everyone - I'd like to hear your feedback on this.

Thanks Meister.. As previously suggested, the purpose of this discussion is to get players feedback and commentary on the Cashpay system. Its an open discussion but please try and keep as constructive as possible

We will monitor the forum on an ongoing basis and send replies where appropriate to specific questions that are brought to the table..

 

[Balthazar]

Cashback is awarded on every deposit a player ever makes at WinTingo. New players get up to 65% back on their first deposit, no maximum.
Thereafter, all players get up to 30% back on every deposit made. Again, no maximum.

Maybe my grasp of the English language isn't what it should be but how can you get "up to X%" with "no maximum"?

 

[marioking24]

great idea, i think!
I´ll definately check it out!

 

[mrmark21]

That's a good idea. That would benefit allot of players who prefer to play without a bonus.

 

[clees42]

Maybe my grasp of the English language isn't what it should be but how can you get "up to X%" with "no maximum"?

Its means that the 30% cashback applies even if the deposit is 10000000000000.

 

[clees42]

This is pretty smart move. They are effectively upping the rtp for everyone which results in more game time and happy customers.
We still havent seen any numbers yet though. Would like to know how much needs to be wagered for 1€ cashback.

 

[mrmark21]

Would like to know how much needs to be wagered for 1€ cashback.

That's a good question?

 

[clees42]

I just checked out the site.
The system seems very reasonable, almost too good.
wager 60€ and get 2€.

Lets say you deposit 100 euro and play 97% rtp slot.
You would have 100,3% rtp until you have wagered 900€.

 

[Slotster!]

I see Microgaming at their site.

If, as we're led to believe therefore, they'll be playing the same RTP as everywhere else - this could be potentially very good news for people who are way more organised and sensible than me.

Interesting!

 

[wintingo]

Maybe my grasp of the English language isn't what it should be but how can you get "up to X%" with "no maximum"?

The cashback is unlimited as it applies to a deposit of any amount. In addition, we carry over any un-earned cashback from 1 deposit to the next. For example: On the players first deposit of $200 they are eligible for 65% cashback which equals $130. If the player busts out and only manages to earn $100 of the $130, should the player deposit again, they are eligible to earn the remaining $30 from the previous deposit plus the additional up to 30% on the new deposit. This works on a continuous basis fr every deposit and is also applied should a player withdraw without having earned their full cashback on a particular deposit.

 

[wintingo]

I see Microgaming at their site.

If, as we're led to believe therefore, they'll be playing the same RTP as everywhere else - this could be potentially very good news for people who are way more organised and sensible than me.

Interesting!

This would be a question for Microgaming but as far as we know, the RTP for their games are the same across all casinos.. As an operator we cannot change or manipulate the RTP.

 

[incrediblestuff]

I remember getting this per mail, and thinking to myself that is a good way to market "another" MJG casino:
This is definitely an innovative bonus-system!
I'll see to it when i have some spare funds, because i would like to test how this affects an average session.
I remember when i read it i also thought something along the line of "too good to be true" and must say seeing that you are active on here
is soothing,
Good idea.

 

[societyofslots]

I may of judged wintingo too harshly in the past by taking the piss out of its name

 

[Nifty29]

Here's my issue, if I read the OP correctly.

The cashback is added in real time as it is earned.

So, every time you wager $60 they slip $2 into your balance I.e. the cashback cannot be accumulated and used as a lump sum, which is a turn off for me personally.

If it was user configurable so that the credit increments could be chosen it would be better.

It really amounts to a 30% deposit bonus that you can only use $2 at a time. Also, the cashback is capped at a percentage of your original deposit.

Good idea, but needs tweaking IMO.

Is this promo instead of comp points, or in addition?

 

[dionysus]

ya, I'm rather with Nifty here; bits and pieces doesnt do it for me; I'd want a chunk to cash in at my leisure, like, when I'm broke

 

[mrmark21]

The cashback is added in real time as it is earned.

So, every time you wager $60 they slip $2 into your balance I.e. the cashback cannot be accumulated and used as a lump sum, which is a turn off for me personally.

I agree with Nifty on that, I though that the cash back was one lump sum

 

[clees42]

they could just add "claim accumulated cashback now" button in the cashier.
I dont see how it is a negative thing they give the bonus in 2€ pieces.
Ive had to deposit 4 times to get post wager bonus at one casino
and i would have gladly taken a smaller portion of the bonus earlier if possible.

 

[wintingo]

If it was user configurable so that the credit increments could be chosen it would be better.

It really amounts to a 30% deposit bonus that you can only use $2 at a time. Also, the cashback is capped at a percentage of your original deposit.

Good idea, but needs tweaking IMO.

Is this promo instead of comp points, or in addition?

In version 2 of the website we are building in functionality so that players can configure how they receive their cashback. It should be something we will release in a few months.

Yes you can look at it as a 30% deposit bonus but the major difference with Cashpay is that there are no wagering requirements in order to withdraw. Players can withdraw their own money and the cashback money at any time.

At the moment Cashpay is instead of comp points.. We are also developing a comp points system which should be released in V2.

 

[dionysus]

Ah, in that case, personally, not a fan of the system. Gl.

 

[wintingo]

Ah, in that case, personally, not a fan of the system. Gl.

I'm confused, you are not a fan of either way that the cashback is awarded? i.e. currently its 2 credits for every 60 and in the coming months we will give players the ability to configure it themselves.

 

[wintingo]

Here's my issue, if I read the OP correctly.

The cashback is added in real time as it is earned.

So, every time you wager $60 they slip $2 into your balance I.e. the cashback cannot be accumulated and used as a lump sum, which is a turn off for me personally.

If it was user configurable so that the credit increments could be chosen it would be better.

It really amounts to a 30% deposit bonus that you can only use $2 at a time. Also, the cashback is capped at a percentage of your original deposit.

Good idea, but needs tweaking IMO.

Is this promo instead of comp points, or in addition?

Nifty, we had a meeting with our developers today to discuss your comments and the necessary changes we would need to make. I have some comments which i would appreciate if the board would consider. Which situation is better:

• The cashback earnings are released in increments of 2 credits for every 60 wagered. The 2 credits are placed in a side balance and can accumulate and the player can redeem this whenever they choose or cashout it out whenever they choose.
  
  Alternatively:
  
  
• We keep with the current format where by we automatically add the cashback earnings to the players balance but we make it user configurable so the user decides how it is added to the balance. For example, instead of 2 in every 60, the player can decide to change it so they receive 10 credits for every 300 wagered.. or 20 credits for every 600 wagered, so on and so forth..

 

[dunover]

I think it's OK as it is. I know in Chopley's videos he once made a comment when he won a decent hit early on on BDBA 'I'll have to rethink this bonus thing' where his bonus was added all at once with a 30x playthrough and he bust out. It does give us the opportunity to cashout which is a big issue with bonuses. VPL have the system whereby it get loaded up front but gets turned into cash in increments of 10% and you can cashout at any time as it will clearly show your bonus balance and w/d able cash balance which goes from 50-50 to 40-60 etc.
I have signed up to Wintingo but not yet played as not had time, but I like the sound of the separate total in your latter idea whereby you can add it when you like.

It is a good idea overall and quite novel, so I like it so far.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Nifty, we had a meeting with our developers today to discuss your comments and the necessary changes we would need to make. I have some comments which i would appreciate if the board would consider. Which situation is better:

• The cashback earnings are released in increments of 2 credits for every 60 wagered. The 2 credits are placed in a side balance and can accumulate and the player can redeem this whenever they choose or cashout it out whenever they choose.
  
  Alternatively:
  
  
• We keep with the current format where by we automatically add the cashback earnings to the players balance but we make it user configurable so the user decides how it is added to the balance. For example, instead of 2 in every 60, the player can decide to change it so they receive 10 credits for every 300 wagered.. or 20 credits for every 600 wagered, so on and so forth..

Both options are perfectly fine, the second one might give the player the feeling they are more in control, but i would be happy with either in any case.

 

[vinylweatherman]

There is one obvious drawback. Once a player has earned all the cashback possible on a deposit, the incentive to play on vanishes. Common sense then dictates that the player withdraws his balance and then redeposits in order to refil the cashback pot and carry on earning. This creates unnecessary transactions for the casino, so the incentive to withdraw and redeposit needs looking at. Granted, the player could simply add another deposit for a larger balance, but where transaction charges for the casino are based on a percentage of the amount, it doesn't really help.

An even bigger problem is the estimate that the net return can exceed 100% RTP whilst earning cashback. It may only be 100.3% as an example calculation showed, but it could be enough to draw in advantage players who will just play for that tiny margin by repeatedly withdrawing and redepositing as soon as they have used up a cashback. With no restrictions on play, this could be easier to "abuse" than a traditional bonus.

MGS have a few slots that are rumoured to have an RTP up to 99%, but with a refusal to publish the figures, it is going to be hard for a casino to claim "abuse" based on a slot where the RTP is a "trade secret", yet at the same time is one "knowingly abused" by a player.

A few Flash/Quickfire casinos that offer traditional bonuses have listed a couple of MGS slots as "prohibited", even though games like All Aces can still be played at a 2% weighting. It doesn't take a degree in maths to figure out that these slots must have a very high RTP compared to the norm. "Triple Magic" is one such slot, even though all the others in the class, including "Double Magic" are allowed, and are simple classic slots of relatively low variance. It tells me that the 3x on the wild boosts the RTP to a high value, rather than the weights of the other symbols having been adjusted to keep the RTP similar to "Double Magic".

If Wintingo has "Triple Magic", and it isn't prohibited, it would be a good slot to consider for advantage playing this cashback. Before anyone tries in earnest, it would be wise for the rep to have their team do the calculations on a player who exclusively plays this slot, and withdraws as soon as all the available cashback has been earned on a given deposit. It won't work every time, it is the long term outcome that is important.

I have also seen "Scrooge" listed as a prohibited slot at Quickfire casinos, but not any of the others, and never "prohibited" on a download client, yet it should be exactly the same game on both, set in stone on release.

Given that Wintingo now has "all" of the available Quickfire games, the selection of "Fruit Machines" released onto Quickfire is only a fraction of the full set found on the traditional Flash based casino.

 

[wintingo]

There is one obvious drawback. Once a player has earned all the cashback possible on a deposit, the incentive to play on vanishes. Common sense then dictates that the player withdraws his balance and then redeposits in order to refil the cashback pot and carry on earning. This creates unnecessary transactions for the casino, so the incentive to withdraw and redeposit needs looking at. Granted, the player could simply add another deposit for a larger balance, but where transaction charges for the casino are based on a percentage of the amount, it doesn't really help.

From a players perspective surely Cashpay is an advantage then? In the case of a normal match bonus, almost 100% of the time the player cannot withdraw until they have finished wagering requirements. The advantage of Cashpay is that the incentive to play on is NOT related to fulfilling restrictive wagering requirements that most casinos enforce i.e. the longer a player is "forced" to play, the more chance they have of losing their winnings before meeting wagering requirements. With Cashpay, depending on the type of player you are, the incentive to play on is a personal choice and not "forced" on you by the casino.

Transaction costs fluctuate based on the volumes that the casino is doing and the rates that the PSP's are offering, these are always negotiable and can change from month to month across multiple PSP's. One of the advantages of Cashpay is that it gives players the freedom to withdraw and re-deposit whenever they want, we are not "forcing" any restrictions on our customers. Even if there are pending withdrawals, players can still re-deposit, not be penalized for it and and still have the opportunity to earn cashback bonuses on the new deposit. In general, we consider transaction charges a non issue for our customers.

If Wintingo has "Triple Magic", and it isn't prohibited, it would be a good slot to consider for advantage playing this cashback. Before anyone tries in earnest, it would be wise for the rep to have their team do the calculations on a player who exclusively plays this slot, and withdraws as soon as all the available cashback has been earned on a given deposit. It won't work every time, it is the long term outcome that is important.

I'll need to check this with our casino manager

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty, we had a meeting with our developers today to discuss your comments and the necessary changes we would need to make. I have some comments which i would appreciate if the board would consider. Which situation is better:

• The cashback earnings are released in increments of 2 credits for every 60 wagered. The 2 credits are placed in a side balance and can accumulate and the player can redeem this whenever they choose or cashout it out whenever they choose.
  
  Alternatively:
  
  
• We keep with the current format where by we automatically add the cashback earnings to the players balance but we make it user configurable so the user decides how it is added to the balance. For example, instead of 2 in every 60, the player can decide to change it so they receive 10 credits for every 300 wagered.. or 20 credits for every 600 wagered, so on and so forth..

Thanks for taking our feedback on board.

Personally I like the first option where cashback can be accumulated.

It would be good to have some funds there if my bankroll is low to have a play.

Its a good idea.....and I'm glad you got rid of that other awful software.

 

[dionysus]

I'm confused, you are not a fan of either way that the cashback is awarded? i.e. currently its 2 credits for every 60 and in the coming months we will give players the ability to configure it themselves.

No, I'm a fan of accumulated...not peicemeal

 

[dunover]

From a players perspective surely Cashpay is an advantage then? In the case of a normal match bonus, almost 100% of the time the player cannot withdraw until they have finished wagering requirements. The advantage of Cashpay is that the incentive to play on is NOT related to fulfilling restrictive wagering requirements that most casinos enforce i.e. the longer a player is "forced" to play, the more chance they have of losing their winnings before meeting wagering requirements. With Cashpay, depending on the type of player you are, the incentive to play on is a personal choice and not "forced" on you by the casino.

Transaction costs fluctuate based on the volumes that the casino is doing and the rates that the PSP's are offering, these are always negotiable and can change from month to month across multiple PSP's. One of the advantages of Cashpay is that it gives players the freedom to withdraw and re-deposit whenever they want, we are not "forcing" any restrictions on our customers. Even if there are pending withdrawals, players can still re-deposit, not be penalized for it and and still have the opportunity to earn cashback bonuses on the new deposit. In general, we consider transaction charges a non issue for our customers.



I'll need to check this with our casino manager

Not true. VPL and other MG casinos use the 'fairplay' bonus system whereby you can w/d at any time including when in cash profit for your deposit. Yes, you'll forfeit the remaining bonus, but let's say you'd just deposited 50 with a 100% match, and hit a 1k win, you'd IMMEDIATELY be able to w/d 500 in cash if you chose. Yes, only half the win, but it's our choice. Carry on to try for WR and bust out, or take the immediate 500 cash profit and leave the 500 bonus part of the win to die. OR you could play on and assuming level play, take 600 cash and forfeit 400 bonus. You don't have to complete the WR. Until your new idea, this is why I play VPL casinos.

 

[wintingo]

Not true. VPL and other MG casinos use the 'fairplay' bonus system whereby you can w/d at any time including when in cash profit for your deposit. Yes, you'll forfeit the remaining bonus, but let's say you'd just deposited 50 with a 100% match, and hit a 1k win, you'd IMMEDIATELY be able to w/d 500 in cash if you chose. Yes, only half the win, but it's our choice. Carry on to try for WR and bust out, or take the immediate 500 cash profit and leave the 500 bonus part of the win to die. OR you could play on and assuming level play, take 600 cash and forfeit 400 bonus. You don't have to complete the WR. Until your new idea, this is why I play VPL casinos.

I believe you are referring to the original Microgaming "Clearplay" bonus system.. When it was originally released players could withdraw without fulfilling wagering requirements and thus forfeit any remaining bonus upon withdrawal. I could be wrong but our research shows us that very few MG casinos (if any) still allow this. I looked at VPL could not find the term stating this however maybe its not something they list on their website ?

 

[Nifty29]

I believe you are referring to the original Microgaming "Clearplay" bonus system.. When it was originally released players could withdraw without fulfilling wagering requirements and thus forfeit any remaining bonus upon withdrawal. I could be wrong but our research shows us that very few MG casinos (if any) still allow this. I looked at VPL could not find the term stating this however maybe its not something they list on their website ?

I know Fortune Lounge do it.

It is a great system. Eliminates all the auditing of cashouts and checking of games excluded etc....saves a lot of manhours.

Obviously it was costing the casinos money, but I wonder if many weren't looking at the big picture.

 

[vinylweatherman]

From a players perspective surely Cashpay is an advantage then? In the case of a normal match bonus, almost 100% of the time the player cannot withdraw until they have finished wagering requirements. The advantage of Cashpay is that the incentive to play on is NOT related to fulfilling restrictive wagering requirements that most casinos enforce i.e. the longer a player is "forced" to play, the more chance they have of losing their winnings before meeting wagering requirements. With Cashpay, depending on the type of player you are, the incentive to play on is a personal choice and not "forced" on you by the casino.

Transaction costs fluctuate based on the volumes that the casino is doing and the rates that the PSP's are offering, these are always negotiable and can change from month to month across multiple PSP's. One of the advantages of Cashpay is that it gives players the freedom to withdraw and re-deposit whenever they want, we are not "forcing" any restrictions on our customers. Even if there are pending withdrawals, players can still re-deposit, not be penalized for it and and still have the opportunity to earn cashback bonuses on the new deposit. In general, we consider transaction charges a non issue for our customers.



I'll need to check this with our casino manager

It is, but if it turns out to be TOO good, Wintingo will risk going bust, but before this there is likely to be some backpeddling by management and this will result in the age old problems of players being called "abusers" simply because they have refined their playing style to take maximum advantage of the cashback scheme.

Whilst transaction costs are usually a non-issue for players, we have seen many casinos, including accredited ones, making it a BIG issue for those players it deems to have "churned" to excess. Club World have generated a few complaints where they have levied retrospective transaction charges on those deemed "advantage players" who have consistenty played the minimum required to release a withdrawal from a bonus, and then deposited again for another bonus within hours of getting paid.

If this cashback system is too good, then it won't last, then the majority of players who joined Wintingo because of it will feel they have been "switched" to a bog standard casino experience after having been "baited" by this novel concept.

 

[Nifty29]

It is, but if it turns out to be TOO good, Wintingo will risk going bust, but before this there is likely to be some backpeddling by management and this will result in the age old problems of players being called "abusers" simply because they have refined their playing style to take maximum advantage of the cashback scheme.

Whilst transaction costs are usually a non-issue for players, we have seen many casinos, including accredited ones, making it a BIG issue for those players it deems to have "churned" to excess. Club World have generated a few complaints where they have levied retrospective transaction charges on those deemed "advantage players" who have consistenty played the minimum required to release a withdrawal from a bonus, and then deposited again for another bonus within hours of getting paid.

If this cashback system is too good, then it won't last, then the majority of players who joined Wintingo because of it will feel they have been "switched" to a bog standard casino experience after having been "baited" by this novel concept.

The cashback is a percentage of the deposit as a maximum.

In this case it is 30%. So if someone deposits $100 they still have to wager $900 to realize the entire $30 cashback. Its still a reasonable amount to wager. Even on a high RTP game its still going to produce a tiny theoretically small long term profit for the player.....and that's only IF they manage to reach the TRTP which is unlikely in the short to medium term. In this scenario they can expect to lose $18 on a 98% game (assuming bj etc is allowed) to get the extra $30. When you consider transaction costs for many players and volatility, it would only take a small deviation of 1-2% in RTP to make it a losing proposition.

It may also be that there is a weekly cashback limit (either a max number of deposits or $$), and it would be crazy not to have some kind of limitations, so thaterodes the tiny aadvantage that might exist away completely as you cannot just keep depositing and claiming until you win. If they don't have limits, that small advantage may exist, but I just can't see APs being all over it.

You're passing off opinions as facts again.....how do you know what will or won't happen? Wintingo have never done anything remotely roguish, so to suggest they will suddenly start treating winning players like crap is totally unreasonable and mildly insulting.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The cashback is a percentage of the deposit as a maximum.

In this case it is 30%. So if someone deposits $100 they still have to wager $900 to realize the entire $30 cashback. Its still a reasonable amount to wager. Even on a high RTP game its still going to produce a tiny theoretically small long term profit for the player.....and that's only IF they manage to reach the TRTP which is unlikely in the short to medium term. In this scenario they can expect to lose $18 on a 98% game (assuming bj etc is allowed) to get the extra $30. When you consider transaction costs for many players and volatility, it would only take a small deviation of 1-2% in RTP to make it a losing proposition.

It may also be that there is a weekly cashback limit (either a max number of deposits or $$), and it would be crazy not to have some kind of limitations, so thaterodes the tiny aadvantage that might exist away completely as you cannot just keep depositing and claiming until you win. If they don't have limits, that small advantage may exist, but I just can't see APs being all over it.

You're passing off opinions as facts again.....how do you know what will or won't happen? Wintingo have never done anything remotely roguish, so to suggest they will suddenly start treating winning players like crap is totally unreasonable and mildly insulting.

It's not necessarily roguish if they just place limits, but it is still a change in the terms.

The short term doesn't matter to APs in any case, it is the long term that they go for.

They DO have Triple Magic as it turns out. I may well be signing up to test my theories.

 

[Nifty29]

It's not necessarily roguish if they just place limits, but it is still a change in the terms.

The short term doesn't matter to APs in any case, it is the long term that they go for.

They DO have Triple Magic as it turns out. I may well be signing up to test my theories.

I actually mean that the limits will be the same for everyone from day one. If everyone is on the same footing from the off, why would it be a change of terms?

You're talking as if changing terms is wrong. It isn't, so long as players are told.

If some AP is depositing the max each week and immediately withdrawing when they meet WR along with the cashback amount, then the casino has every right to exclude them from further cashback, or place restrictions on them. Bonuses are not an entitlement, and are not there to line some APs pockets. Bonus abuse doesn't exist. What does exist is an operators right to cease offering a promotion to someone who is not interested is depositing without cashback and not interested in being a genuine player/customer.

Why is triple magic so special? Isn't it a weighted 3 reeler from way back? I'm sure the APs would have been on to it years and years ago if it gave an advantage, and I've never heard it being done before. Its a slot, and unless you can be certain of getting your 98% return, which you can't and most likely won't, that tiny advantage disappears.

Still, you know what they say about a fool and their money.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I actually mean that the limits will be the same for everyone from day one. If everyone is on the same footing from the off, why would it be a change of terms?

You're talking as if changing terms is wrong. It isn't, so long as players are told.

If some AP is depositing the max each week and immediately withdrawing when they meet WR along with the cashback amount, then the casino has every right to exclude them from further cashback, or place restrictions on them. Bonuses are not an entitlement, and are not there to line some APs pockets. Bonus abuse doesn't exist. What does exist is an operators right to cease offering a promotion to someone who is not interested is depositing without cashback and not interested in being a genuine player/customer.

Why is triple magic so special? Isn't it a weighted 3 reeler from way back? I'm sure the APs would have been on to it years and years ago if it gave an advantage, and I've never heard it being done before. Its a slot, and unless you can be certain of getting your 98% return, which you can't and most likely won't, that tiny advantage disappears.

Still, you know what they say about a fool and their money.

I don't know, ask the casinos that list it as a prohibited game for making WR on a slots bonus.

Casinos tend to ban games as a reaction to spotting APs making money from it, so clearly there WERE a number of APs who had tried this, and succeeded sufficiently to scare the casino into banning this one game.

Wintingo seem too confident that APs cannot beat the system, so although they may be forced to reconsider, it will create a bad PR moment because they have had to back pedal from their initial "bring it on" attitude to suggested AP strategies.

What might beat them is the "old school" strategies of grinding out WR and cashing out the result. What they are shielded from are the newer strategies that rely on early access to the bonus balance in order to make bigger bets and take a "do or die" attitude to making WR on an individual bonus.

According to the rep, these are not bonuses, so taking them away from players is more fundamental than issuing a bonus ban. It also opens the door to accusations that they are accusing players of AP simply for being unusually lucky, such as managing to get 98% return for long enough to make a significant profit.

Their Triple Magic even has autoplay, so even though the margin may be wafer thin at 0.3%, it can be done whilst watching the telly. The rep has already said they don't have a problem with players withdrawing as soon as they have converted their available cashback and immediately redepositing. He even said that deposits can be made with a withdrawal still pending, so the system even makes it easy for APs to ply this strategy.

 

[Nifty29]

I don't know, ask the casinos that list it as a prohibited game for making WR on a slots bonus.

Casinos tend to ban games as a reaction to spotting APs making money from it, so clearly there WERE a number of APs who had tried this, and succeeded sufficiently to scare the casino into banning this one game.

Wintingo seem too confident that APs cannot beat the system, so although they may be forced to reconsider, it will create a bad PR moment because they have had to back pedal from their initial "bring it on" attitude to suggested AP strategies.

What might beat them is the "old school" strategies of grinding out WR and cashing out the result. What they are shielded from are the newer strategies that rely on early access to the bonus balance in order to make bigger bets and take a "do or die" attitude to making WR on an individual bonus.

According to the rep, these are not bonuses, so taking them away from players is more fundamental than issuing a bonus ban. It also opens the door to accusations that they are accusing players of AP simply for being unusually lucky, such as managing to get 98% return for long enough to make a significant profit.

Their Triple Magic even has autoplay, so even though the margin may be wafer thin at 0.3%, it can be done whilst watching the telly. The rep has already said they don't have a problem with players withdrawing as soon as they have converted their available cashback and immediately redepositing. He even said that deposits can be made with a withdrawal still pending, so the system even makes it easy for APs to ply this strategy.

Again...you're making stuff up.

Where did Wintingo say, in the past or present, that they accused anyone of advantage play and stopped their bonuses? I must have missed it. You're talking about events that have happened at other casinos, but not all casinos see it that way, and Wintingo appear to be in that category. You've got them banning players before the promotion even kicks off!

It doesn't matter whether you call it a bonus or a cashback....its a promotion, and promotions are not an entitlement. You know that.

 

[dionysus]

Ok, I'm lost, what does this have to do with the cashback programme and feedback in regards to it?

 

[dunover]

I know Fortune Lounge do it.

It is a great system. Eliminates all the auditing of cashouts and checking of games excluded etc....saves a lot of manhours.

Obviously it was costing the casinos money, but I wonder if many weren't looking at the big picture.

Yes, yes, semantics, 'Clearplay' was of course what I was referring to, and as Nifty says it is a fair system which is probably why I used the term 'fairplay'

Yes, FL do it still, and although you may not see it listed VPL do it (as I said before all my MG play is at VPL sites and I am a member or all their casinos that take UK players) and I have seen it in operation on them as recently as last week. I check my cash/bonus balance and assuming a 100% SUB it stays at 50-50, then when you liberate 10% of the bonus into cash via playthru your balance updates to 55 cash-45 bonus and so-on up until 95-5 and then next it's 100% cash obviously.
For Wintingo to say 'few do this' is wrong; VPL and FL account for 33% of the accredited MG casinos here so it is still quite common!

It is to date my preferred system. I still haven't found time to test the Wintingo one since I signed up a few days back.

 

[wintingo]

Yes, yes, semantics, 'Clearplay' was of course what I was referring to, and as Nifty says it is a fair system which is probably why I used the term 'fairplay'

Yes, FL do it still, and although you may not see it listed VPL do it (as I said before all my MG play is at VPL sites and I am a member or all their casinos that take UK players) and I have seen it in operation on them as recently as last week. I check my cash/bonus balance and assuming a 100% SUB it stays at 50-50, then when you liberate 10% of the bonus into cash via playthru your balance updates to 55 cash-45 bonus and so-on up until 95-5 and then next it's 100% cash obviously.
For Wintingo to say 'few do this' is wrong; VPL and FL account for 33% of the accredited MG casinos here so it is still quite common!

It is to date my preferred system. I still haven't found time to test the Wintingo one since I signed up a few days back.

I was more basing my comments on what the terms state on the websites. In VPL's case, from what i read, clearplay is applied to certain bonuses only (SUB and a few others are not included) and casino management's discretion. I'm not bagging VPL or Clearplay, as good as it is, the bonus portion that you dont manage to convert to cash is effectively sticky and you still cannot withdraw if your real money balance is lower than your bonus balance... Correct ?

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: thread split - don't hijack threads

If you want to change the subject while posting in a thread, please start a new thread. It is time consuming on our part to move posts etc., in order to keep threads on track. This one has a specific purpose - to get feedback Wintingo's new cashback program.

Rant on losing at slots moved here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/worst-ever-tsii-experience.55779/

VWM's conspiracy theory moved here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...panies-moved-posts-from-another-thread.55780/

Please do not hijack threads - please consider that there are many people here who like a tidy forum. Thank you.