Casino Complaint Winningroom (Acquired by Mr Green) Account Closed

[Chipkin9]

Right. So where do I start with this one?

On the 10th of this August I tried to log into my Winningroom account to make a deposit and play and got greeted with the"Account Blocked, please contact support" message.

After my hour long (They really do deliberately leave you on hold throughout each exchange) and unpleasant chat with the very rude Ruby; I was informed of the following:

In February 2018 Mr Green have acquired Evoke Gaming and all it's brands, and since I have my Mr Green account self excluded since April this year then the decision has been made to close my Evoke Gaming becaue of, and I quote "Care for the Player".

Now all of this would have sat fine with me if I had have been: A) Informed of the takeover immediately and had my account closed in April (Absolutely fine) and B) They stopped milking deposits off me all this time before closing my account.

Apparently they take responsible gaming so seriously over there that they thought it was absolutely fine to take £152.25 in Skrill deposits and £70 through paysafe from April until August before closing my account.

Of course I feel this is absolute bullshit and asked for a refund on all of my deposits made since April (When I closed my Mr Green account).

I received an Email telling me this has been refused, since "This acquisition has no impact from a license perspective and both companies run under completely independent licenses. Nevertheless, as we take Responsible Gaming very seriously, we have decided to close self-excluded accounts across brands ahead of the legal obligation to do so."

So, right then. You have closed my account in line with Mr Greens policies before you have a legal obligation to do so?

But it's perfectly fine for you to also not inform me of this takeover immediately and close the account in April before your obligation to do so?

I'm not in the slightest bit happy with this.

Evoke Gaming/Winningroom did NOT inform thier customers of Mr Greens acquisition of all thier brands.

They as an entity completely denied me the opportunity as a responsible gamer to cease my deposits to thier casino immediately by contacting me in some form or manner about this acquisition.

There is no doubt that by being self excluded at Mr Green and by being made informed of the acquisition, that I would not have deposited a penny more; knowing all too well about non payments that use self exclusion as the reason of confiscation for the casino's excuse.

Where does that leave us as players?

Had I won £3k, I imagine they would have closed the account and then informed me of the takeover, refused my winnings under "Responsible Gaming"and refunded my deposits. It's a win win, cake and eat it situation for them, and they are no doubt exploiting this takeover.

Am I entirely in the wrong here thinking they should have informed me and closed my account in April and ceased taking deposits immediately?

Had they have done this, I would not have deposited there at all, and now they are using the excuse that they "Operate under a separate License" to portray like they are doing things responsibly, have operated responsibly and have abided by the rule book; which in fact they have not by withholding the knowledge of the takeover from thier playerbase.

Am I wrong in asking for my deposits back?

What do I do with this?

Just accept it?

 

[goatwack]

I'd have thought change of ownership is something that gets emailed, only right they should let players know!

Of course no one would have deposited knowing they were SEd across their brand, and yes had you won they'd be issuing a refund no doubt!

What about the Mr. Green rep? Maybe he can issue a statement here

 

[Chipkin9]

I'd have thought change of ownership is something that gets emailed, only right they should let players know!

Of course no one would have deposited knowing they were SEd across their brand, and yes had you won they'd be issuing a refund no doubt!

What about the Mr. Green rep? Maybe he can issue a statement here

He'll tell me to take it up with the Evoke gaming manager as they "Operate under different Licenses". Yet adopt thier policies before a legal obligation to.

I'm not angry about the closure, that's expected at some point with the brands merging. I'm angry that I was not informed and have been having deposits accepted when my account should have been closed in April at all of Evoke's brands when they had prior knowledge that accounts across both Mr Green and Evoke casinos would be adopting the same SE policies; and eventually be merging Licenses.

 

[Harry_BKK]

So they were taken over in Feb 18, you excluded in April 18 and they suddenly turn responsible in Aug 18. Ergo, between April - August where was their responsible thinking?

They either are or are not taking RG seriously. If they do then your SE should have been activated across all brands in April 18. Doing it now is a bit like a spit in the face: "We got a few more bucks, soon we will need to self-exclude him anyway, so let's do it now"

Evoke is a part of Mr. Green, separate license or not, it is a 100% subsidiary of Mr. Green and thus SE across the brands should have been applied.

GIG and Betit run on separate licenses as well and players are excluded across all brands. So why there, and not at Mr. Green/Winning Room?

On another note, Evoke wasn't doing well when Mr Green stepped in but I do love the spin from the CEO: "it will secure future growth" blablabla.

 

[Chipkin9]

So they were taken over in Feb 18, you excluded in April 18 and they suddenly turn responsible in Aug 18. Ergo, between April - August where was their responsible thinking?

They either are or are not taking RG seriously. If they do then your SE should have been activated across all brands in April 18. Doing it now is a bit like a spit in the face: "We got a few more bucks, soon we will need to self-exclude him anyway, so let's do it now"

Evoke is a part of Mr. Green, separate license or not, it is a 100% subsidiary of Mr. Green and thus SE across the brands should have been applied.

GIG and Betit run on separate licenses as well and players are excluded across all brands. So why there, and not at Mr. Green/Winning Room?

On another note, Evoke wasn't doing well when Mr Green stepped in but I do love the spin from the CEO: "it will secure future growth" blablabla.

Precisely. And they are trying to cover thier arses with the "We operate under a separate license" bullshit. I loved that they communicated to me that they had no obligation to close my account but did so out of "Care for the player".

So much "Care for the player" in fact that they did not inform thier player database of the takeover in February like they had a due dilligence to and continued to milk deposits off them, knowing full well that SE players from Mr Green would and should be SE from all Evoke brands in the very near future.

They argued that a merging license "Doesn't happen overnight" and this is why they didn't implement the account closure sooner. I thought that if Mr Green acquired Evoke in February, then in February Evoke would have had Mr Greens player database that same month. The process of this is as simple as backing up your hard drive and copying everything onto it (New system).

And regardless of whether or not they had access to Mr Green player base in February or not, there are no excuses what so ever for not informing your own entire playerbase about the acquisition to begin with. Something that is inexcusable.

They refuse to acknowlegde my legitimate arguments for a refund and have an excuse for absolutely everything. Who'd have thought a casino would pull such stunts?

Unironically as everyone here on this CM has witnessed in the past, there is a very real possibility that they would have refused to payout any substantial winnings should I have been lucky, and also would have used "Self Exclusion".

I don't see why they should have thier cake and eat it too.

 

[slotter999]

@Chipkin9 I think that technically they do not have to refund your deposits. I understand that self exclusions are license specific. They just decided to close your account based on their own policy and not any legal requirement. Likewise, if you had won 3K I do not believe they would have been able to legally confiscate your funds.

That said. I recently went through a process where my account was closed down due to a similar situation. Leovegas were the parent company who took over some casino I had SE'd from and applied SE well after the acquisition. The odd thing is that leovegas never shared any licence but they still proceeded to refund all deposits within 24hrs. I was surprised they did it at the time as I thought they were not legally required to do so but given they had recently take a bit of a ''kick up the arse' by the regulator I think they just wanted rid of the issue which makes sense.

If you contact the UKGC they can provide clarity on your situation but I don't think you have a slam dunk for any refunds I'm afraid.

 

[Chipkin9]

@Chipkin9 I think that technically they do not have to refund your deposits. I understand that self exclusions are license specific. They just decided to close your account based on their own policy and not any legal requirement. Likewise, if you had won 3K I do not believe they would have been able to legally confiscate your funds.

That said. I recently went through a process where my account was closed down due to a similar situation. Leovegas were the parent company who took over some casino I had SE'd from and applied SE well after the acquisition. The odd thing is that leovegas never shared any licence but they still proceeded to refund all deposits within 24hrs. I was surprised they did it at the time as I thought they were not legally required to do so but given they had recently take a bit of a ''kick up the arse' by the regulator I think they just wanted rid of the issue which makes sense.

If you contact the UKGC they can provide clarity on your situation but I don't think you have a slam dunk for any refunds I'm afraid.

Thanks Slotter.

Unfortunately I do agree with you that they don't technically have to budge with thier "Different License" approach on the matter. As scummy as I think they have been by witholding the acquisition from thier players in the first place with the intention of getting more deposits from the soon to be excluded players, I do admit that they have possibly followed regulations with regards to closing my account prior to the full on License merge.

That doesn't mean I agree with it, and I don't. I feel the exclusion should have come sooner, there is no excuse as to why it did not. I feel I should have been informed of the takeover in February (When it occured), and again in April when I closed my Mr Green account. So I do feel like I was entitled to ask for a refund.

I've considered contacting the UKGC about it, but like you say, I probably shouldn't expect anything but a reply and some disappointment on the side

 

[dunover]

I actually agree with the OP that given the circumstances it was unreasonable to accept deposits then retain them via an ex post facto decision, especially as the player had no information e-mailed that this takeover had occurred.

 

[sapit222]

Of course you will get your deposits back.
There is nothing else to say about it.

Greedy casinos...

 

[lockinlove]

The deposits have to be returned because they were freerolling the player. And the casino should have done this without having to be asked.

 

[Slottery]

@Chipkin9 I think that technically they do not have to refund your deposits. I understand that self exclusions are license specific. They just decided to close your account based on their own policy and not any legal requirement. Likewise, if you had won 3K I do not believe they would have been able to legally confiscate your funds.

That said. I recently went through a process where my account was closed down due to a similar situation. Leovegas were the parent company who took over some casino I had SE'd from and applied SE well after the acquisition. The odd thing is that leovegas never shared any licence but they still proceeded to refund all deposits within 24hrs. I was surprised they did it at the time as I thought they were not legally required to do so but given they had recently take a bit of a ''kick up the arse' by the regulator I think they just wanted rid of the issue which makes sense.

If you contact the UKGC they can provide clarity on your situation but I don't think you have a slam dunk for any refunds I'm afraid.

I would assume pretty much same, there can be some difference between MGA and UKGC rulings, @Chipkin9 mentioned £ as in deposit amounts and assuming you are from UK (with my Google skills i count Tyrone to be in Northern Ireland), UKGC rulings are more tough for casinos and more player friendly (let's leave SOW outside of this where they were much faster than MGA ), there at least some groups (like @Harry_BKK pointed out) who have been acquiring other brands, are making self-exclusions through all sites even they are holding same license, not sure if this is requirement from UKGC or they just do it, i would find that out from UKGC to start with. With MGA self-exclusions need to be made only cross same license.

I also would guess that paying your winnings wouldn't be a problem if self-excluding your account was just their decision to try be responsible and it was only done now, but would really find out were they forced to by UKGC rules or was it really their own decision, that's kind of key point here. Like @slotter999 got refunded from Leovegas even license was not shared

100% agree to that all players should be informed such a change and at least no player should realized that account is self-excluded without any notification. If they are right in this different license thing, there really is not much chance to claim any deposits back but way how but if they are not, they might have nice pile of refunds because of this.

 

[LadyJelena]

Have you already messaged @Mr Green Affiliates ?

 

[Chipkin9]

Have you already messaged @Mr Green Affiliates ?

I have yes, just as you mentioned it

Let's see what he has to say.

 

[Mr Green representative]

Good Morning,

Thanks a lot for your posts and comments. I have passed this conversation to the relevant department and they will be in contact asap. Thank you and have a good day

 

[alexking12k]

Good Morning,

Thanks a lot for your posts and comments. I have passed this conversation to the relevant department and they will be in contact asap. Thank you and have a good day

I have a feeling that you are full of shit!

 

[colinsunderland]

The deposits have to be returned because they were freerolling the player. And the casino should have done this without having to be asked.

How were they freerolling the player?

 

[Casinomeister]

I have a feeling that you are full of shit!

What the hell? 30 day suspension.

This is not your issue, and making disparaging remarks like that might jeopardize the outcome of Chipkin's problem.

 

[pinnit2014]

Just chipping in (pun not intended) - was the same with LV and Royal Panda. I got the response from UKGC that, as different licences, there was no obligation on RP for example to return deposits of SE at LV at the SE doesn’t carry overetc. Later on RP decided to apply the LV SE etc months after takeover (policy decision?). Whether they do seems to be entirely at their discretion (whether that creates some sort of constructive obligation I don’t know).

The Mr Green acquisition appeared to go relatively unnoticed - maybe we need to subscribe to the Financial Times to keep informed ;-)

 

[Chipkin9]

How were they freerolling the player?

Whilst I wish to avoid arguing on the topic; this is exactly how I feel on the matter Colin.

Evoke/Winningroom were acquired in February. They did not inform thier customers of this acquisition.

I S/E at MrGreen in April. Had I known that Evoke/Winningroom were now owned by MrGreen, then I would have ceased my depoists there from April to August to avoid any possible future conflict regarding non payments due to S/E.

There are absolutely no guarantess that I would have been paid out at Winningroom while being S/E at MrGreen.

They eventually closed my account before a complete Licecnse merge and informed me it was due to "Care for the Player" and being a "Responsible Operator", yet they weren't responsible enough to inform thier customers of the acquisition.

They knew that Self Excluded players at Mr Green would have ceased playing at thier casinos and deliberatley witheld this information; that to me is freerolling players and taking advantage of responsible gamblers like myself who wouldn't have deposited a penny more.

If they operated responsibly as a casino, then they would have closed my account in April and informed me of the acquisition when I closed my Mr Green account, yet they didn't.

The argument they are making against refunding me is that they didn't have to close my account in August, but they did because they are "Responsible", so then what was stopping them from closing my account in April?

Why didn't they close it then?

So in my mind they definitely were not acting or operating responsibly, they were simply witholding information and freerolling me.

 

[colinsunderland]

I'm completely agree that you are right to be annoyed with them, I certainly would be, but I do think, had you won, you would have been paid, so don't think they were freerolling you. It would be different if they were operating under MrGreens license as then they would have had to SE from the earlier date.
You most certainly should have been told about the merger, even if only from a data protection view, as obviously your data will now be handled by a new company, so not sure how they have done that without getting your permission first.
Will be interesting to see what the rep comes back with

 

[Chipkin9]

I'm completely agree that you are right to be annoyed with them, I certainly would be, but I do think, had you won, you would have been paid, so don't think they were freerolling you. It would be different if they were operating under MrGreens license as then they would have had to SE from the earlier date.
You most certainly should have been told about the merger, even if only from a data protection view, as obviously your data will now be handled by a new company, so not sure how they have done that without getting your permission first.
Will be interesting to see what the rep comes back with

They way I also look at it; separate License or not...Evoke/Winningroom are owned by Mr Green, and it's into Mr Greens pocket my money went. That's me looking at it very simply

 

[colinsunderland]

They way I also look at it; separate License or not...Evoke/Winningroom are owned by Mr Green, and it's into Mr Greens pocket my money went. That's me looking at it very simply

I agree and also think, regardless of how many licenses are involved, if you SE from a casino, then it should apply instantly to any casinos they own, even if they have separate licenses. However, the UKGC seems to feel differently so we just have to go by the rules that are there unfortunately

 

[Mr Green representative]

Good morning all,

Please for security reasons contact our Customer Service department on customerservice@mrgreen.com, you need to email from your reg email account so we can bring up your account and locate the player. Our support agents will make sure your complaints are taken care off. Thank you

 

[Chipkin9]

Good morning all,

Please for security reasons contact our Customer Service department on customerservice@mrgreen.com, you need to email from your reg email account so we can bring up your account and locate the player. Our support agents will make sure your complaints are taken care off. Thank you

Hi MGA,

I've contacted customer services and have been replied to that complaints are taken seriously and may require some time to conclude, so I am just awaiting the outcome of that.

I must say, I am not optimistic in the slightest and am expecting the same company line response I got from Evoke Gaming (Winningroom). Let's see

Thanks for your assistance either way

 

[EkJR]

Interested to see the outcome of this as had a similar case of being excluded on Ladbrokes but being able to play at Coral. They denied a refund because they operate on separate licences but are one and the same company.