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Software Complaint William Hill - What software do they use?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by lotusch, Jun 3, 2013.

    Jun 3, 2013
  1. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Hi guys,

    As a newbie I wanted to fire off with some queries about a well known and established online sportsbook/casino.
    I have serious thoughts about their software and asked them numerous times via live chat and the phone to explain to me what software they use but no one seems to be able to give me an answer.

    I will tell in a nutshell what happened to me sofar when registered with William Hill a couple of months ago.

    I registered,deposited 50 Euro's I believe it was and started playing their slots.
    Seriously,it did not matter what slot I played,they all paid out and as a cherry on top of the cream a certain slot paid me a huge 4500 Euro's ($5500 ish dollars) on a $3 dollar bonusround.
    I ended up with a whopping 5 grand winning with my first deposit,after verification of my age and residence I had the monies fairly quick in my Skrill/Moneybookers account.

    Obviously I went back and won another few nice amounts in the following weeks.
    I was chuffed by the payout ratio and the frequency their slots would give the bonusgames.

    Now,you feel it coming,months down the line and still a loyal player I can't win any money anymore,their slots don't payout any bonusgames anymore (no matter what slot I play) and I keep just running dry on my casino balance.

    Isn't fair casinosoftware not supposed to give random combinations?
    If so their software in my opinion is not random.

    How come in first few visits slots pay huge amount of bonusses and then months in a row I can't hit a single bonus and IF I would hit one it would give me ridiculously low winnings like $5 on a $3 dollar spin,like LOL? :eek:

    Then they have a cashback bonus,so if you don't win they give you 10% back up to 50 Euro's,so if you lose 500 Euro they give you 50 back to play with.
    Here is the funny part,after a few weeks of losing the slots seem to loosen up when playing with the bonusmoney as you lost alot to get that bonus anyway and WooHoo the bonusses seem to be triggered more often again,how come?

    Don't get me wrong guys,I still like that casino but in general I always end up losing there but they have some of my favourite slots and thus I keep returning hoping I will grab a good win again soon.

    I read somewhere there is a William Hill rep on this forum so please be welcome to respond to my query.

    Be assured,it is nothing against William Hill,I am just trying to understand why the slots were running so loose in the beginning and now they won't pay me a nickle anymore. :)
    Yet I still logon from time to time to give the slots a go again. :)

    Also questionable,in the VEGAS part where I play most I see always the same BIG winners pop up on the wall.
    Some players even win multiple BIG jackpots in a space of days,how the heck is that possible.
    If it happens to 1 guy ok,same as someone wins the lotto twice but I see same names popping up on winnerswall over and over again,how is that possible as I can't get a decent win as a loyal and often returning player.

    Looking forward to read anyones thoughts!

    Thanks guys,

    Mark.
     
  2. Jun 3, 2013
  3. mathsboy1975

    mathsboy1975 Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    software engineer
    Location:
    UK London
    I would call this "regression to the mean". You got lucky at the start of your account and you cannot expect to keep hitting big wins forever. I used to think that casinos played looser when you were a new member to reel you in, but after more years of play I now have as many bad starts at a new casino as I have good starts. I remember when I opened a 32 red slot the first game I played was Battlestar Galactica and hit a mega big win in the Ion Storm feature paying about £2.2K off a £3 stake on only my 3rd spin as a 32red member. The same happened at bet365 on monopoly plus. I can also recall just as many blowouts off an initial deposit though. You got lucky at the start and now the long term return to expected value is kicking in.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 3, 2013
  5. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Thanks for your reply buddy,appreciate it.
    I had the same thoughts for a long time but also came to the conclusion that opening a new account on a random casino defo NOT assures you a nice win to reel you in.
    I just registered with 32red today as it gets good ratings on this website so lol,hope I can reel in a nice win there. :D

    As for William Hill,hopefully I will have a more lucky streak again at some stage. :thumbsup:
     
  6. Jun 3, 2013
  7. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall

    The proposition you make is impossible - the RNG is just that. There is no 'button' the casino can press to up your RTP for the first few thousand spins to reel you in. You can have a stinker, or a great cashout, or just gradually lose with nothing spectacular in either bad or good runs. Luck is the only factor, no design.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 3, 2013
  9. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Edited my post there dunover,I wrote the sentence in the wrong way! :rolleyes:
    So I am with you 100%.
     
  10. Jun 3, 2013
  11. Patriot66

    Patriot66 Experienced Member MM

    Occupation:
    I.T
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    William Hill use the standard Playtech offering for their casino games, a variety (but the majority IGT) for their 'Games' section (just added some Bally games too).

    Many of the games in the 'Vegas' section are bespoke I think. Never seen the majority of the decent ones anywhere else.

    It sounds like you got very lucky at the start and (as was mentioned above) are just experiencing a bad run.

    Obviously, depending on the variance level of the games you were playing, you would expect to experience either a gradual decline of your balance or a boom or quick bust scenario.

    I can't think of many games in the casino (progressives aside) that can offer the 1500x stake that you won. That certainly is a one-off.
     
  12. Jun 4, 2013
  13. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Yeah I must have been very lucky as I never had a win like that on a casino where I just started to play with 1st deposit.
    I won it on Nags to Riches slot where you can play double bets to increase chances of getting the bonus.
    It was actually a €1.50&€1.50 spin and won a couple of hundred on the first horserace (bonusgame) and then a while later I got the free spins feature and that's where the big payouts landed with a single spin of wilds and highest payout symbols on the screen...

    In the games section a lot of IGT slots now and tbh I don't like IGT slots as it sometimes really takes forever to get a bonusgame on any of their slots although IGT is well established I am not a big fan of their slots...
    Tried the Bally ones as well,they run slow and reels stop nearly all at once which I don't like at all...

    Vegas section is my fav. section with loads of fun slots like Cash of the Titans,Leprechauns Luck,Wish upon a Jackpot and The Glass Slipper,a few of my fav. slots... :)

    But in general William Hill is a trusted casino I assume?That's all I want to make sure as I don't mind losing as it is a risk when gambling but I want to make sure my chances are equal as any other players as I play on average €1.00 - €5.00 stakes depending on my bankroll...
    Don't want to compete with people who can afford 100 Euro spins and such as some of their games are better chances when playing higher stakes like the VEGAS JACKPOT they have...The higher you bet the more chance of triggering this thing...Never had it yet...:D
     
  14. Jun 4, 2013
  15. tinybettor

    tinybettor Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Retail Store Manager
    Location:
    Australia
    To the OP, how much are you actually depositing though when playing at your $1-5 bets. If your deposits are not sufficient to provide a large enough bankroll to last a couple hundred spins, then it is very likely that you will bust out quickly. This could be the reason why from your perspective that the slots seem to go cold if the bankroll is not large enough, even taking into account multiple deposits. In my experience I have both won big and lost multiples time when joining a new casino, so I don't think there's anything fishy going on. Any in regards, congratulations on your winnings and hopefully you wont endure a losing streak that wipes that big win you had!
     
  16. Jun 4, 2013
  17. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    I deposit normally smaller amounts of €100.00 and refill account if needed.
    Start off with €0.50/€0.80 and €1.00 spins to hopefully build up bankroll which works sometimes but obviously a lot of times I need to refill account a few times...Risk of the business I reckon... :D
     
  18. Jun 5, 2013
  19. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Ok guys,I decided and ask William Hill if they could provide me with my personal RTP and they were very reluctant to talk about it.
    They could not provide me with this number as they only store transactions made up to 13 weeks which I do not believe.
    They know exactly from day 1 what a player have deposited and cashed out.
    So my question is,does a casino need to provide me with my RTP if I asked for it?

    All they gave me was this link:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Well that does not say anything about my RTP and overall slots RTP seems very low anyway.
    They must have alot of high variant slots and also the huge jackpots they pay out must lower the average non jackpot wins I assume?
     
  20. Jun 5, 2013
  21. mathsboy1975

    mathsboy1975 Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    software engineer
    Location:
    UK London
    The RTP for a slot is just a theoretical value. You cannot expect your RTP to be EXACTLY the same as the theoretical RTP. If you are lucky, then your RTP over a period will exceed 100% and that is all well and good. The only thing you can be sure of is that the more time you play a slot, the more LIKELY that your RTP will converge to the theoretical RTP. Consider playing 10000 games of heads and tails with a friend. You get a pound off him if its a head and you give him a pound if its a tail. Over 10000 games the chances of you having EXACTLY 5000 wins each is pretty small even though that is the theoretical expected observation. The chances of you deviating significantly from 5000 each though is very small. Over 100000 games you would expect the difference between the expected amount (now 50000 each) and the observed amount would be even smaller. The longer you play, the more likely it is that your actual RTP is very close to the theoretical RTP. Bottom like is that you are not expected to win at these games and as a consequence, the games do not need to vary the RTP (even if it were possible). The mathematics of the games ensures that over the long term the casino wins.
     

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