Why MG doesn't offer multiplayer games??

[gfkostas]

I wonder why microgaming keep their hands off from multiplayer games.With MG graphics and reputation it would have been superb to be able to play with other players online.

 

[bethug]

and the game war

 

[Sodax77]

I agree gfkostas. But i think you mean MG's casino software (not poker).

 

[gfkostas]

Yes am obviously talking regarding their casino software as poker and not multiplayer is not realistic.

 

[kniepm]

speaking of multi-player:

I was playing blackjack at Intercasino last week with two other players at the table. A new player joins and first hand hits his seventeen against the dealer's two. He took the dealers bust card (hole card was a ten), the dealer draws a nine, everybody looses. WELCOME TO THE TABLE A-HOLE!

I'll give the guy credit though, he did apologize, saying he hit the wrong button (mouse fart).

OTOH, there have been times when it seems like the addition of another player has turned a bad run of cards for the better.

And don't get me started about the players who take the entire count down to decide they are going to pass the next hand.

Maybe I should play more microgaming. Too bad I win most at Crypto's.

 

[jpm]

I don't like multiplayer games either, at least not if they have any influence over the outcome of your hand (like BJ, Let it Ride, Carribean Stud, etc). If its VP or slots though, that's no big deal.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The only fun I have from playing multi-player games is through the utter astonishment of how many bad BJ players there are out there.

Splitting cards is always the most amazing - seeing 4's and 6's split when dealer showing face or ace is a sight to behold

 

[bethug]

dirk and them same people want to run to this forum say the games is fixed and they cant even play

 

[sw2003]

What do you care how other people play? It is their money!
If everybody plays the same, then we might just as well send an
army of robots in there to play for us! No fun!

 

[jpm]

I only care when it affects my chances of winning. Like previous posters have said, there are so many bad players out there that screw up the table for everyone else. Its ok if you want to watch others play, but you don't really want them playing with you if they are going to screw you up do you?

 

[angahar]

Also, another player's decisions can't lower your expected return. Here is a section from the wizardofodds gambling myths section:
Myth: That idiot at third base is killing me.
Fact: A common myth at the blackjack table is that a bad player, especially one in the last seat, will disrupt the natural order of the cards and cause everyone to lose. It is true that such a player sometimes will make a play that will result in the dealer beating everybody rather than breaking. However in the short run such a player is just as likely to help you as to hurt you and in the long run they won't make any difference. The cards are in random order and they are not prearranged to make the dealer break assuming correct play. If anyone rebukes you for hitting a stiff hand at third base tell them you'll keep doing so when the odds favor it and if they don't like it they can find another table.

My first time ever playing blackjack I was at a land casino. I had a 14 versus a dealer 5, and because I didn't know what the hell I was doing I hit. I got a 7 which was fine for me but the smarmy gambaholic at the table with me was totally pissed. He kept ranting on about me hitting the dealers break card. What a jerk. I had told the dealer that I had never played but she rudely said she couldn't help me. I moved to another table and got a dealer that told me the basic strategy for every hand until I learned the ropes, plus some players that were actually having fun. So anyway don't scold a player for bad plays. They are just as likely to help you as hurt you.

 

[bethug]

jpm, i like when people cant play, i know for a fact the casino will have money to pay me

 

[The Dude]

dirk and them same people want to run to this forum say the games is fixed and they cant even play

I run this forum. What be you sayin'?

 

[bethug]

casinomeister, that was not direct to you, what i am saying is people lose playiing black jack due to playing bad. Then run here and say the game is fixed. I have seen people with 100 balance play 25 a hand.

 

[gfkostas]

I would like if it's possible someone from Microgaming to come here and tell us why they don't have multiplayer games.It's a reasonable question which puzzles my and many others brain

 

[jpm]

jpm, i like when people cant play, i know for a fact the casino will have money to pay me

LOL, good point!

I don't really believe in the wizard's view on bad players at your table. I think they do affect your game, at least in the short term. Over the long term (thousands of hands or more), I'm sure the affect probably becomes negligible, however, most of us don't have the bankroll to survive that long with a bad player screwing up the table. I've had it happen too many times at land based casinos to think its not going to affect the table.

However, I never say anything to the bad player who is screwing up. I think that is obnoxious behavior. I either grin & bear it waiting for them to bust (take a quick peek at their stack to see how long it will last), move to another table, take a walk with my seat saved, or even offer some advice if they don't know how to play a particular hand and seem perplexed. But I can't stand the ones who berate someone else at the table for making a bad play.

 

[GrandMaster]

I don't really believe in the wizard's view on bad players at your table. I think they do affect your game, at least in the short term. Over the long term (thousands of hands or more), I'm sure the affect probably becomes negligible, however, most of us don't have the bankroll to survive that long with a bad player screwing up the table. I've had it happen too many times at land based casinos to think its not going to affect the table.

You don't have to believe the Wizard :notworthy, he is still right. Your play does not affect the other players' expected win or loss. It affects the outcome of individual hands, but not the expectation. Sometimes the deviation from correct strategy makes no difference, sometimes it will save you by causing the dealer to bust when he would not have busted otherwise, but people don't tend to thank 3rd base when this happens.

 

[Flavio4321]

I don't really believe in the wizard's view on bad players at your table. I think they do affect your game, at least in the short term.

I think is the first time, I see someone not agreeing with the Wizard!!!

 

[jpm]

You don't have to believe the Wizard :notworthy, he is still right. Your play does not affect the other players' expected win or loss. It affects the outcome of individual hands, but not the expectation. Sometimes the deviation from correct strategy makes no difference, sometimes it will save you by causing the dealer to bust when he would not have busted otherwise, but people don't tend to thank 3rd base when this happens.

That's what I said, I agree when it comes to EXPECTED return, but since it is a short term game in that scenario, it certainly affects your actual return. If everyone was playing thousands of hands, it'd probably even out, but the bad player will bust out before then and will take some other players on the table down too.

 

[hhcfreebie]

That's what I said, I agree when it comes to EXPECTED return, but since it is a short term game in that scenario, it certainly affects your actual return. If everyone was playing thousands of hands, it'd probably even out, but the bad player will bust out before then and will take some other players on the table down too.

How? Would you mind to give me an example? I do know that the short term and the long term expectation are the same. If the house has an advantage, he will have the advantage be it 1 or 10,000 hands. The more hands we play, the more likely the outcome will "converge" to the expectation.
I just can't picture how the bad players would change the outcome of my game. Maybe my feeble mind is just too rusty to come up with anything meaningful.
Hmm, come to think of it, maybe their bad play would encourage casinos to offer better promotions?
I myself always avoid playing with the others.The pace is just too slow and that effect my hourly rate.

 

[jpm]

How? Would you mind to give me an example?

Sure, real simple. I've had it happen many times at land based tables (which is why I'd never play multiplayer online). You've got one bad player that has no clue what they're doing sitting either before you or after you in the deal, doesn't seem to matter their position, and they are typically hitting when they shouldn't (like whenever they have less than 17, regardless of dealer up card), or splitting when they shouldn't. You play your hand the way you should, (doubling, hitting, standing) and you end up losing a hand you should have won because the bad player misplayed their hand. Either they pulled the card you needed or pulled the dealer's bust card away with their misplayed hit or split.

I know, I know, the card position is all random, blah blah blah. But do a quick calculation on where the cards would have fallen if they played their hand properly, and you usually see that the outcome would have been reversed had they played it right. On RARE occassions I've seen a misplay result in the dealer busting, but much more often its improved the house's advantage to have the bad player at the table.

Obviously the house always has the advantage, but the bad player is affecting my actual return. And since they probably only last for maybe a couple of dozen hands or so, there's no time for it to even out. Its just a big sigh of relief when they finally bust out and leave. I think typically its someone who's just visiting the casino for fun, etc and just plays at the cheapest table they can find ($5 at the casinos I frequent). Because of this, I'll play at the next level table ($10 or maybe $15) to avoid the 'newbie' player. Don't know if this happens online though, since I won't play multiplayer BJ online.

Other games like Let it Ride, 3 card poker, or Caribbean Stud aren't affected by the 'bad player' because the only decision is play or don't play. But I prefer to play these one on one in the hope of a better chance of getting winning hands (as in let it ride, if I have a king and 3 other players at the table do too, then the dealer will never flip one to make my hand a winner. But if its just me, then there's 3 more kings that could come out of the deck to help my hand).

 

[dickens1298]

Statistically speaking, the concept of good or bad play ruining a table is flawed. Basic strategy is predicated on the probability of certain card combinations - whether another player hits or not does not materially affect this statistic. Here's an example:

Dealer with 6 showing, you have a 14, third base has a pat 12. You stay, third base hits, and elicits a look of hatred from you. Third base busts out with a 10. Dealer has 10 in the hole, then pulls the 3 to beat you. Sound familiar?

But what if the 3 and the 10 were reversed? Then third base "saves" the table. Are you telling me that the 10 ALWAYS comes before the 3...? If it were this situation (where the next card was a 3), you would say that third base was lucky, and congratulate yourself on playing correctly.

Anecdotally, we tend to remember our losses due to "bad play" more than our lucky wins due to "good play".

By the way - I've seen high limit players do irrational moves (such as split tens), and kept a win streak alive by doing so. As they say, it's better to be lucky than good.

Sure, real simple. I've had it happen many times at land based tables (which is why I'd never play multiplayer online). You've got one bad player that has no clue what they're doing sitting either before you or after you in the deal, doesn't seem to matter their position, and they are typically hitting when they shouldn't (like whenever they have less than 17, regardless of dealer up card), or splitting when they shouldn't. You play your hand the way you should, (doubling, hitting, standing) and you end up losing a hand you should have won because the bad player misplayed their hand. Either they pulled the card you needed or pulled the dealer's bust card away with their misplayed hit or split.

I know, I know, the card position is all random, blah blah blah. But do a quick calculation on where the cards would have fallen if they played their hand properly, and you usually see that the outcome would have been reversed had they played it right. On RARE occassions I've seen a misplay result in the dealer busting, but much more often its improved the house's advantage to have the bad player at the table.

Obviously the house always has the advantage, but the bad player is affecting my actual return. And since they probably only last for maybe a couple of dozen hands or so, there's no time for it to even out. Its just a big sigh of relief when they finally bust out and leave. I think typically its someone who's just visiting the casino for fun, etc and just plays at the cheapest table they can find ($5 at the casinos I frequent). Because of this, I'll play at the next level table ($10 or maybe $15) to avoid the 'newbie' player. Don't know if this happens online though, since I won't play multiplayer BJ online.

Other games like Let it Ride, 3 card poker, or Caribbean Stud aren't affected by the 'bad player' because the only decision is play or don't play. But I prefer to play these one on one in the hope of a better chance of getting winning hands (as in let it ride, if I have a king and 3 other players at the table do too, then the dealer will never flip one to make my hand a winner. But if its just me, then there's 3 more kings that could come out of the deck to help my hand).

 

[gfkostas]

I went yesterday to Gala casino in London and when I joined the table i was told off by some players that I should not join when they are in the middle of the shoe.Like I will affect the outcome of the game.....BS!They also don't like see hits on 16 because they believe that 4,5,6 wont help you but in reverse it will help dealer to bust.They really pissing me off all these mindless players :mad

 

[GrandMaster]

I went yesterday to Gala casino in London and when I joined the table i was told off by some players that I should not join when they are in the middle of the shoe.Like I will affect the outcome of the game.....BS!They also don't like see hits on 16 because they believe that 4,5,6 wont help you but in reverse it will help dealer to bust.They really pissing me off all these mindless players :mad

Don't be too harsh on them, these are the people who keep the casinos in business.

For those who still believe that other people's play affects them, I recommend that they check the Optional Stopping Theorem for Martingales (nothing to do the martingale betting system), here is a reference on the web

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. It is heavy duty mathematics, but you can also do calculations by hand for particular cases if you assume that there are only a few cards left in the deck.

 

[jpm]

I've never disputed the statistical or theoretical aspects, but if you've ever played at a table where this happens, you'd know it absolutely affects your actual return. As I said in my earlier post, on RARE occassions I've seen a misplay result in the dealer busting, but much more often its improved the house's advantage to have the bad player at the table.

gfk, at some of the land based casinos I frequent, the high roller tables all have signs saying 'No mid-shoe entry'. Those are $100 minimum tables, so I don't really blame them for wanting to keep things status quo. Sometimes when I get bored or run out of my gambling money for the day, I'll go an watch these guys bet (and lose) hundreds & hundreds per hand. All done without a word from the players or dealer, just hand motions. Doesn't seem like as much fun as a low limit table with people cheering each other on and a dealer hoping to bust his own hand. That's the kind of dealer I enjoy tipping.

 

[Clayman]

at some of the land based casinos I frequent, the high roller tables all have signs saying 'No mid-shoe entry'. Those are $100 minimum tables, so I don't really blame them for wanting to keep things status quo.

The ONLY reason casinos post "No mid-shoe entry" signs is to protect themselves from card counters who would otherwise "wong-in" in positive counts. Nothing at all to do with "maintaining the flow" or some such other nonsense.

A corollary is that often, if you choose to skip a hand while seated at the table, you will not be allowed to play another hand until after the shuffle.

Recently, at a Detroit casino, I was surrounded by 4 of the worst BJ players I have EVER seen and did nothing but win. People get mad at me all the time when I hit 12 vs 4,5 or 6, or 13 vs 2 thru 6, or don't split aces in negative counts. Or double an A,8 or 9 vs 5 or 6 or double 10 vs 10 or Ace, split 10,10 vs 6, or hit 15 vs 10 in positive counts. They think I'm a really bad player. If I'm at 3rd base and do this, even my wife wants to kill me.

There are probably at least 60 such deviations from BS just in the range of -4 to +4, so, when you see some "bad" play, keep in mind he might be counting.

 

[Clayman]

By the way - I've seen high limit players do irrational moves (such as split tens), and kept a win streak alive by doing so. As they say, it's better to be lucky than good.

If he had 4 to 6 or more times his normal bet out at the time and it was vs a dealer 4-6, he almost certainly was a counter and therefore good, rather than lucky. Another tip-off would be that he left the table immediately after the hand in the hope management would not see the "I'm a counter" sign on his chest.

Or, like you say, he's a high-rolling idiot.

 

[GrandMaster]

I've never disputed the statistical or theoretical aspects, but if you've ever played at a table where this happens, you'd know it absolutely affects your actual return. As I said in my earlier post, on RARE occassions I've seen a misplay result in the dealer busting, but much more often its improved the house's advantage to have the bad player at the table.

Individual hands will be affected, of course, but the average effect is 0. You may have selective memory, you are more likely to remember when another player's play affected your hand negatively.

Let me restate it. Imagine that you have observed which cards have been played, and then you have two table for each of possible combination of dealer's hole card and order of cards of the remaining deck. At one of these tables you have a player who stays, at the other you have a player who hits. Then you average the results over the two sets of tables, and the average will be the same.

 

[gfkostas]

gfk, at some of the land based casinos I frequent, the high roller tables all have signs saying 'No mid-shoe entry'. Those are $100 minimum tables, so I don't really blame them for wanting to keep things status quo. Sometimes when I get bored or run out of my gambling money for the day, I'll go an watch these guys bet (and lose) hundreds & hundreds per hand. All done without a word from the players or dealer, just hand motions. Doesn't seem like as much fun as a low limit table with people cheering each other on and a dealer hoping to bust his own hand. That's the kind of dealer I enjoy tipping.

That's not the case for at least 80% of London casinos.It's ridicullous to have people preaching you like THEY KNOW how to play BJ.I'm there to play my money and what ever I do is none of their business.If the manager comes im sure i will win the case or be moved to an other private table for my satisfaction

 

[Clayman]

That's not the case for at least 80% of London casinos.It's ridicullous to have people preaching you like THEY KNOW how to play BJ.I'm there to play my money and what ever I do is none of their business.If the manager comes im sure i will win the case or be moved to an other private table for my satisfaction

Once, at Casino Niagara, this guy asked me very nicely if I would mind waiting before joining the table in mid-shoe because he was in the middle of a hot streak. I said fine, as I usually do, knowing I'll be pissing everybody off soon enough anyway. His streak continued. When the shoe was over, he gave me a $25 chip for NOT joining the table.

Maybe you should ask these people how much is it worth it to them for you to not play! If they don't pay you, they shouldn't care.

It's also funny that, once seated at a table, these same folks never seem to care at all if you skip a few hands.

 

[jpm]

Oooh, interesting strategy there. Get paid not to play. Might be worth a try!

 

[jpm]

Individual hands will be affected, of course, but the average effect is 0. You may have selective memory, you are more likely to remember when another player's play affected your hand negatively.

Let me restate it. Imagine that you have observed which cards have been played, and then you have two table for each of possible combination of dealer's hole card and order of cards of the remaining deck. At one of these tables you have a player who stays, at the other you have a player who hits. Then you average the results over the two sets of tables, and the average will be the same.

No arguement the average effect will eventually be 0, but as I said, either the bad player's bankroll or your own won't live long enough to even out. Its always a very small sample. And the negative play is probably a more vivid memory as well.

The ONLY reason casinos post "No mid-shoe entry" signs is to protect themselves from card counters who would otherwise "wong-in" in positive counts. Nothing at all to do with "maintaining the flow" or some such other nonsense.

A corollary is that often, if you choose to skip a hand while seated at the table, you will not be allowed to play another hand until after the shuffle.

Interesting, thanks for the explaination on that. I always thought it was to keep the players happy, but its actually to keep the casino 'happy'. Makes more sense that way now that I think about it.

 

[gfkostas]

Don't be too harsh on them, these are the people who keep the casinos in business.

For those who still believe that other people's play affects them, I recommend that they check the Optional Stopping Theorem for Martingales (nothing to do the martingale betting system), here is a reference on the web

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. It is heavy duty mathematics, but you can also do calculations by hand for particular cases if you assume that there are only a few cards left in the deck.

In UK you can have up to 3 different bets from 3 different persons in one hand.The person who place the first bet has the responsibility for the hand.I was that one at the BJ table.I got a 12 and dealer had 2.I hit i got an ace for a total of 13.I stand and dealer got 19.Then i had some stupid blind superstitious players start bothering me that they lost their bet because of my poor decision etc.I got pissed off and left the casino.Is it possible to demand that i dont want any bet along with mine?If someone from uk know please let me know.This situation is a joke i can't even play BJ now because I play wrong for them or if i go to play in the middle of the shoe I again have problems because I affect their outcome

 

[GrandMaster]

I would not trust someone else to play for my money unless I am confident that that person can play at least basic strategy.

 

[jpm]

In the US it seems to be customary for someone to ask if they can play behind you. Most people don't even know this is an option though, I rarely see it anymore.

 

[DealerBusts]

No arguement the average effect will eventually be 0, but as I said, either the bad player's bankroll or your own won't live long enough to even out. Its always a very small sample. And the negative play is probably a more vivid memory as well.

I have to say that I've played at land casinos and other peoples play definitely doesn't matter. I've been helped as much as i have been screwed by other people's play. You are also going to get screwed more often than not because of the house advantage the casino has.

As for evening out, you might get lucky first and have other player's bad play help you at the start. There is no reason why their play should influence your hand negatively instead of positively at the start of a playing session.

 

[Clayman]

In UK you can have up to 3 different bets from 3 different persons in one hand.The person who place the first bet has the responsibility for the hand.

Actually, assuming that when the primary player splits and the "piggybacker" has the option of splitting his hand or not, and, if he chooses not to split, his hand becomes the first "post-split" hand, a nice opportunity for collusion between primary and "piggybacker" exists.

For instance in 8,8 vs 10, since EV of 16 vs 10 < than EV of 8 vs 10, when the primary player splits, the "piggybacker" has the opportunity to turn a 16 into a free 8.

If the front better bets small and is willing to make sacrificial plays, while his friend the "piggybacker" bets big, a gain of 0.2% on the HA is possible, mostly involving splitting plays.

 

[jpm]

Who gets the first new hand on a split in this scenario? The player or piggybacker? In other words, is the p.b's hand played first or second?

 

[Clayman]

Who gets the first new hand on a split in this scenario? The player or piggybacker? In other words, is the p.b's hand played first or second?

The pb's hand becomes by definition the first post-split hand of the seated player. The point is the pb has gained an advantage by being able to choose to play an 8 vs 10 rather than a 16 vs 10. Clearly, it's a benefit to be pb because you will never have to play 8,8 vs 10.

There are other plays where the seated player can make sacrificial plays to help benefit his accomplice, the pb, who is betting big. For instance the seated player would split 2,2 vs everything and allow the pb to play a single hand with first upcard of 2.

This is assuming of course that the pb is not required to also split when the seated player chooses to do so. But I think that is how it usually works. Unless the casinos have become smarter. I think they are just happy to be getting the increased action that pbing allows.

 

[sw2003]

Actually, assuming that when the primary player splits and the "piggybacker" has the option of splitting his hand or not, and, if he chooses not to split, his hand becomes the first "post-split" hand, a nice opportunity for collusion between primary and "piggybacker" exists.

For instance in 8,8 vs 10, since EV of 16 vs 10 < than EV of 8 vs 10, when the primary player splits, the "piggybacker" has the opportunity to turn a 16 into a free 8.

If the front better bets small and is willing to make sacrificial plays, while his friend the "piggybacker" bets big, a gain of 0.2% on the HA is possible, mostly involving splitting plays.

Could you explain a bit better please? I don't see why both of them shouldn't split the pair of 8's given that you already said the EV of 8,8 vs 10 is bigger than 16 vs 10?

 

[Clayman]

Could you explain a bit better please? I don't see why both of them shouldn't split the pair of 8's given that you already said the EV of 8,8 vs 10 is bigger than 16 vs 10?

Simply put, you lose more money by properly splitting 8,8 vs 10 than you do when your first card is an 8 vs a 10 and are able to take your chances on what your second card to go along with the 8 will be. Naturally the seated player still makes the decision how to play his split hands. But the pb is only betting on one of the 2 hands that begins with a single 8. Wouldn't you rather have the chance of playing 8,A, 8,2, 8,3, 8,4 8,5, 8,6, 8,7 8,9 or 8,10 vs a 10 rather than having to play an 8,8 vs 10?

Think of it as being dealt 8,8 vs 10 and then being allowed to ask the dealer to remove one of your 8's and then deal the next card to you.

 

[sw2003]

ok this piggback rule is foreign to me! So the piggy guy could effectively have one card removed whenever there is a pair and the primary player split the hand.
That makes quite a bit of a difference! I would have thought the casino would force the biggerbacker to play the same thing as the primary guy.

 

[ukcroupier]

Piggybacking will generaly only occur when there's a full table (although some idiots do it even when there's a seat). So, given that it is a full table, the casino is getting extra action from the piggybacker that they wouldn't get without the rule so they're willing to put up with the occasional 'cheater'

As to gfkostas's query about not allowing piggybackers, I'm afraid you've got no choice unless you're a highroller. When I was a UK dealer (4 years back) the rule was that the maximum bet was per box not per hand - so just bet the box up to the table maximum and then nobody can piggyback with you

 

[jpm]

I'm sure if you made enough of a fuss about it, they would tell the pb to find someone else to play behind though. Personally, I wouldn't allow it unless it was a friend of mine.

Here's another question, not sure if anyone knows this, are your comp points based on just your bets, or yours + a pb if one is playing behind you?

 

[GrandMaster]

I'm sure if you made enough of a fuss about it, they would tell the pb to find someone else to play behind though. Personally, I wouldn't allow it unless it was a friend of mine.

Here's another question, not sure if anyone knows this, are your comp points based on just your bets, or yours + a pb if one is playing behind you?

The piggybacker does not change anything for you, unless he distracts you or you have disagreements over the correct strategy. It is the piggybacker who is risking his money on your skills.

 

[sw2003]

How do you get comps from Blackjack table game? I don't believe there is a person sitting there with a notebook just to record all your wager, is there?

 

[jpm]

That's one thing the pitboss does, checks your play and enters your comps into the computer. At least at the places I've been at in the US. Maybe its a different system in the UK.

Grandmaster, that's what I meant, distraction or disagreement. I just tell them no if they ask to play behind me. I just don't want the distraction or second guessing.

 

[Clayman]

Piggybacking will generaly only occur when there's a full table (although some idiots do it even when there's a seat).

Well, as I tried to point out, you can actually reduce the house edge by piggybacking, so there is a good reason to piggyback even though there may be empty seats. Rather than being idiotic, it's actually smart.

And, if the seated player is betting $5 and making apparently insane plays like splitting 2,2 vs 10 while the pb is betting $100, you can be sure they know exactly what they are doing.

Can you, or anyone, say whether piggybackers currently have the option of not splitting along with the seated player?

 

[ukcroupier]

The idiots I refered to were those who didn't take advantage of the system but just lumped there chips on and let someone else do the job - regardless of whether they could play or not.

 

[gfkostas]

Can you, or anyone, say whether piggybackers currently have the option of not splitting along with the seated player?

The piggybacker must split along with the seated player.He can choose not to double but he must split if the seated player wants to.What if the piggybacker doesn't have anymore money? he will ruin your hand except if you want to bet for him.

In uk we have no comps.At least based on the 80% of casinos am a member of you don't get comps even if you are high roller or not.

I have all the time problems with piggybackers distracting me,blaming me and many disagreements on how I play my hand.Lately I got irritated so much with some idiots where they got the point at last that I don't want any bloody piggybacker behind me.Better online sniff sniff