bethug said:jpm, i like when people cant play, i know for a fact the casino will have money to pay me
jpm said:I don't really believe in the wizard's view on bad players at your table. I think they do affect your game, at least in the short term. Over the long term (thousands of hands or more), I'm sure the affect probably becomes negligible, however, most of us don't have the bankroll to survive that long with a bad player screwing up the table. I've had it happen too many times at land based casinos to think its not going to affect the table.
jpm said:I don't really believe in the wizard's view on bad players at your table. I think they do affect your game, at least in the short term.
GrandMaster said:You don't have to believe the Wizard :notworthy, he is still right. Your play does not affect the other players' expected win or loss. It affects the outcome of individual hands, but not the expectation. Sometimes the deviation from correct strategy makes no difference, sometimes it will save you by causing the dealer to bust when he would not have busted otherwise, but people don't tend to thank 3rd base when this happens.
How? Would you mind to give me an example? I do know that the short term and the long term expectation are the same. If the house has an advantage, he will have the advantage be it 1 or 10,000 hands. The more hands we play, the more likely the outcome will "converge" to the expectation.jpm said:That's what I said, I agree when it comes to EXPECTED return, but since it is a short term game in that scenario, it certainly affects your actual return. If everyone was playing thousands of hands, it'd probably even out, but the bad player will bust out before then and will take some other players on the table down too.
hhcfreebie said:How? Would you mind to give me an example?
jpm said:Sure, real simple. I've had it happen many times at land based tables (which is why I'd never play multiplayer online). You've got one bad player that has no clue what they're doing sitting either before you or after you in the deal, doesn't seem to matter their position, and they are typically hitting when they shouldn't (like whenever they have less than 17, regardless of dealer up card), or splitting when they shouldn't. You play your hand the way you should, (doubling, hitting, standing) and you end up losing a hand you should have won because the bad player misplayed their hand. Either they pulled the card you needed or pulled the dealer's bust card away with their misplayed hit or split.
I know, I know, the card position is all random, blah blah blah. But do a quick calculation on where the cards would have fallen if they played their hand properly, and you usually see that the outcome would have been reversed had they played it right. On RARE occassions I've seen a misplay result in the dealer busting, but much more often its improved the house's advantage to have the bad player at the table.
Obviously the house always has the advantage, but the bad player is affecting my actual return. And since they probably only last for maybe a couple of dozen hands or so, there's no time for it to even out. Its just a big sigh of relief when they finally bust out and leave. I think typically its someone who's just visiting the casino for fun, etc and just plays at the cheapest table they can find ($5 at the casinos I frequent). Because of this, I'll play at the next level table ($10 or maybe $15) to avoid the 'newbie' player. Don't know if this happens online though, since I won't play multiplayer BJ online.
Other games like Let it Ride, 3 card poker, or Caribbean Stud aren't affected by the 'bad player' because the only decision is play or don't play. But I prefer to play these one on one in the hope of a better chance of getting winning hands (as in let it ride, if I have a king and 3 other players at the table do too, then the dealer will never flip one to make my hand a winner. But if its just me, then there's 3 more kings that could come out of the deck to help my hand).
gfkostas said:I went yesterday to Gala casino in London and when I joined the table i was told off by some players that I should not join when they are in the middle of the shoe.Like I will affect the outcome of the game.....BS!They also don't like see hits on 16 because they believe that 4,5,6 wont help you but in reverse it will help dealer to bust.They really pissing me off all these mindless players :mad