Where has civility gone?

[LaurieJim]

This is sad news out of New Jersey.


msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 2 hours 45 minutes ago

The suicide of a university student — after a recording of him having a sexual encounter with a man was broadcast online — has stirred outrage and remorse on campus from classmates.

"Had he been in bed with a woman, this would not have happened," said Rutgers University student Lauren Felton, 21. "He wouldn't have been outed via an online broadcast and his privacy would have been respected and he might still have his life."

Gay rights groups say Tyler Clementi's suicide make him a national example of a problem they are working to combat: Young people who kill themselves after being tormented over their sexuality.

A lawyer for Clementi's family confirmed Wednesday that he had jumped off the George Washington Bridge last week .


A body found in the Hudson River off New York City was identified on Thursday as Clementi's. New York City medical examiner's spokeswoman Grace Burgess confirmed Clementi committed suicide, saying he drowned and had impact injuries on his torso.

Tyler Clementi, left, is thought to have committed suicide, days after video of him was secretly webcast on the Internet. Clementi's roommate, Dharun Ravi, center, and another classmate, Molly Wei, have been charged in the case.
Clementi's roommate, Dharun Ravi, and fellow Rutgers student Molly Wei, both 18, have been charged with invading Clementi's privacy.

Middlesex County prosecutors say the pair used a webcam to surreptitiously transmit a live image of Clementi having sex on Sept. 19 and that Ravi tried to webcast a second encounter on Sept. 21, the day before Clementi's suicide.

Collecting or viewing sexual images without consent is a fourth-degree crime. Transmitting them is a third-degree crime with a maximum prison term of five years.

Ravi wrote Sept. 19 on what is believed to be his Twitter page, which has since been deleted, but is still accessible though Google's cache system: "Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

Two days later, Ravi apparently posted another entry referring to iChat, an internet messaging service with a live video feed.

"Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 and 12. Yes it's happening again," Ravi wrote in the Sept. 21 post.

Clementi's last cry for help?
The website Gawker reported that a user called cit2mo who posted messages on a website called JustUsBoys may have been Clementi.

In a thread called "college roommate spying," the post from cit2mo on Sept. 21 at 7:22 a.m. said: "so the other night i had a guy over. I had talked to my roommate that afternoon and he had said it would be fine w/him. I checked his twitter today. he tweeted that I was using the room (which is obnoxious enough), AND that he went into somebody else’s room and remotely turned on his webcam and saw me making out with a guy. given the angle of the webcam I can be confident that that was all he could have seen," cit2mo wrote.

"I’m kinda pissed at him (rightfully so I think, no?) ... I feel like the only thing the school might do is find me another roommate, probably with me moving out … and i’d probably just end up with somebody worse than him ... I mean aside from being an asshole from time to time, he’s a pretty decent roommate," he added.

He added at 9:28 a.m. that day, that "I feel like it was 'look at what a fag my roommate is' ... and the fact that the people he was with saw my making out with a guy as a scandal whereas i mean come on ... he was SPYING ON ME ... do they see nothing wrong with this? unsettling to say the least."

Even if the young violinist was not well known at his new school, his death stirred outrage.

"The notion that video of Tyler doing what he was doing can be considered a spectacle is just heinous," said Jordan Gochman, 19, who didn't know Clementi. "It's intolerant, it's upsetting, it makes it seem that being gay is something that is wrong and can be considered laughable."

Other students who did know Clementi were upset that they didn't do more to help him. "I wish I could have been more of an ally," said Georges Richa.

.About 100 people gathered Wednesday night for a vigil on campus. They lay on the ground and chanted slogans such as, "We're here, we're queer, we're not going home."

Several gay rights groups linked Clementi's death to the troubling phenomenon of young people committing suicide after being harassed over their sexuality.

On Tuesday, a 13-year-old California boy died nine days after classmates found him hanging from a tree. Authorities say other teens had taunted the boy, Seth Walsh of Tehachapi, for being gay.


Steven Goldstein, chairman of New Jersey-based Garden State Equality, said in a statement that his group considers Clementi's death a hate crime.

"We are heartbroken over the tragic loss of a young man who, by all accounts, was brilliant, talented and kind," Goldstein said. "And we are sickened that anyone in our society, such as the students allegedly responsible for making the surreptitious video, might consider destroying others' lives as a sport."

Rutgers University President Richard McCormick wrote in a letter to the campus.

"If the charges are true, these actions gravely violate the university's standards of decency and humanity," he said.

Coincidentally, the university on Wednesday was launching a new two-year Project Civility, designed to get students thinking about how they treat others.

A lawyer for Ravi did not immediately return a message seeking comment. It was unclear whether Wei had retained a lawyer.



Laurie

 

[RedAndi]

This story made me sick.
The laws need to be stricter.
Kids/People will never learn how this affects others lives until they start seeing others sit in jails a VERY long time for doing these types of things.

 

[silcnlayc]

I read this article lauriejim, and I read it again. The first thing that popped in my head after reading both times was...why would anyone want to end their life over something so trivial in todays standards ...? My next thought was, if parents would allow children to grow and fall on their faces, allow them to face adversity and let them figure it out while young instead of stepping in every time a child says ouch...we might have stronger young adults that could handle these kinds of situations with maturity.

America has become a place where children cannot achieve or build strong character or confidence in their choices within themselves because parents have made our next generation so weak by making these choices for them and not allowing them to fail and learn and grow from failure ,that something like this is so unnecessary if the child/young adult was given tools to deal with these kinds of situations instead of trying to "protect" the children, if parents allowed them to grow into independant thinkers and achievers, this would never have happened.

The next thought was, why didn't the parents teach this young man that the only way someone can have control over you is if you give it the power to affect you. This too would have prepared him to face something like this with disdain for whoever tried to create an issue over what they showed..

I mean, homosexuality is not a new thing...if you choose this lifestyle, be proud, and do not let anyone bring you down or dismiss you, otherwise, they then have power over you...only you can give this over to another (the power to hurt you) and no one else.. but it comes from learning and understanding ..that NOONE can do this unless YOU allow it to hurt you..

My heart goes out to the young man, knowing if he had the tools to deal with this, he would have never chosen this useless path.

.

 

[betpartners]

To me this is more than homosexuality

This could have been a teenage girl having sex for the first time or a young man having sex with his mothers best friend or someone masturbating, for me this is a gross invasion of privacy regardless of who was involved, that he was gay should have no relevance really.

Privacy in this sort of setting should be protected to the full strength of the law, when it becomes a trivial thing to be able to video someone in compromising act and the consequences be insignificant then we all had better watch out.

 

[RedAndi]

I read this article lauriejim, and I read it again. The first thing that popped in my head after reading both times was...why would anyone want to end their life over something so trivial in todays standards ...? My next thought was, if parents would allow children to grow and fall on their faces, allow them to face adversity and let them figure it out while young instead of stepping in every time a child says ouch...we might have stronger young adults that could handle these kinds of situations with maturity.

America has become a place where children cannot achieve or build strong character or confidence in their choices within themselves because parents have made our next generation so weak by making these choices for them and not allowing them to fail and learn and grow from failure ,that something like this is so unnecessary if the child/young adult was given tools to deal with these kinds of situations instead of trying to "protect" the children, if parents allowed them to grow into independant thinkers and achievers, this would never have happened.

The next thought was, why didn't the parents teach this young man that the only way someone can have control over you is if you give it the power to affect you. This too would have prepared him to face something like this with disdain for whoever tried to create an issue over what they showed..

I mean, homosexuality is not a new thing...if you choose this lifestyle, be proud, and do not let anyone bring you down or dismiss you, otherwise, they then have power over you...only you can give this over to another (the power to hurt you) and no one else.. but it comes from learning and understanding ..that NOONE can do this unless YOU allow it to hurt you..

My heart goes out to the young man, knowing if he had the tools to deal with this, he would have never chosen this useless path.

.

You think this is trivial? Really?
A lot of people kill themselves in moments of weakness, I am sure given a day or 2 to think on things they would likely be more able to move on. However, at the moment I am sure this guy was totally devasted.
I also think you are missing the point of this. Homosexuality should not be the issue. Invasion of his private most intimate moments is.

Would you want this to happen to any of your children, or even yourself? Someone secretly watching you have relations and broadcasting it ON THE WEB. I can't see that being something anyone easily gets over.

 

[silcnlayc]

betpartners To me this is more than homosexuality

This could have been a teenage girl having sex for the first time or a young man having sex with his mothers best friend or someone masturbating, for me this is a gross invasion of privacy regardless of who was involved, that he was gay should have no relevance really.

Privacy in this sort of setting should be protected to the full strength of the law, when it becomes a trivial thing to be able to video someone in compromising act and the consequences be insignificant then we all had better watch out.

Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I agree this is much more than homosexuality...and being trivial (in a different sense than I think you took it for)...I applied that word in the reaction which it should have been...not this heart wrenching reaction. It is how one feels about themselves and how they learn to deal with these kinds of issues is my point no matter what the scenerio or situation, one should have enough teachings and experience and strength within themselves when they go off on their own to make a better choice and to be able to trivialize something like this on their own. Suicide is not the answer. This young man and any young person does NOT have to die over something such as this.

A stronger person would have chosen another path and made it a much smaller issue..and sued the heck out of the others that did this. That is what I am saying, the strength to choose differently. This young man showed he wasn't prepared for something like this and he should have been because of his choices. He did not HAVE to die.

.

 

[LaurieJim]

Some of these children that decided upon suicide just didnt know what to do, maybe couldnt face their parents or peers and felt thay had no other way to turn.

Its how we teach our children, that in this day and time when anything can go viral worldwide, we need to show civility, a human side, not hide behind a keyboard and hurt others.

These two people need what ever max punishment the law will allow and become an example as harsh as it sounds.

Not everyone is strong and can deal when they feel they are backed up to the wall imo.


Laurie

 

[just play]

A stronger person would have chosen another path and made it a much smaller issue..and sued the heck out of the others that did this. That is what I am saying, the strength to choose differently. This young man showed he wasn't prepared for something like this and he should have been because of his choices. He did not HAVE to die.

I don't really care for "a stronger person".

You (general you) have no idea what this person was going through even before that night. To say he wasn't strong REALLY bothers me.

Its how we teach our children

I don't like this statement either...lol...I have done everything in my power to bring up my 20 year old the "right way"...she is her own person and does things her way, there is nothing I can do about it...believe me I tried and tried.

Some of these children that decided upon suicide just didnt know what to do, maybe couldnt face their parents or peers and felt thay had no other way to turn.

I do however agree with this statement...there are many factors that go into things like Laurie mentioned. Being homosexual is still a big deal in this world, people don't want to believe it. There are old fashioned people/religious people/or just plain assholes.

 

[silcnlayc]

Anyway you look at this picture, these children/young adults do not need to die in this way for these reasons.

.

 

[all4greed]

I would like to see some sort of murder charges against these type of people for the results that end in death of the person that was tormented. It seems this is becoming more and more common.

One incident I remember was that mother trying to get revenge for her daughter against some classmate and made up a ID on MySpace. The mother pretended to be some boy that took an interest in the girl. It was her plan to set the girl up and make her vunerable, then degrade, and dump her. The girl wound up committing suicide. I don't believe the mother served any time in prison nor did she apologize.

A slap on the wrist or some piddly jail time doesn't cut it for this kind of bullying.

 

[LaurieJim]

I was just watching on the news, they were talking about 11, 13 years and up who have taken their lives over cyber bullies, an 11 year old ,my God!!

Before a child touches a computer in any school, they need to take Civility classes, it should be a required subject to graduate from middle and high school both, thats just my opinion.

Laurie

 

[just play]

I was just watching on the news, they were talking about 11, 13 years and up who have taken their lives over cyber bullies, an 11 year old ,my God!!

Before a child touches a computer in any school, they need to take Civility classes, it should be a required subject to graduate from middle and high school both, thats just my opinion.

Laurie

my younger daughter is 8...i could not imagine this happening in a few years!

someone HAS to do something, stuff like this is getting too common for my liking.

 

[ksech]

It used to be, you taught your children they could TRUST a teacher, a relative, a priest/minister... that you could go to these people when you had problems. Think about it, who can they trust nowadays? So, they keep things bottled up until they think the only alternative they have is death.

Peers can be ones own worst enemy. Discrimination isn't just about races or gender. I sometimes think people feel threatened by that which they don't know or understand. So, their reactions come through as verbal bashing/emotional abuse/ and sometimes physical abuse.

If your child had a teacher who excelled at their job, i.e. took great interest in making sure your child understood everything they needed to know before moving on to the next chapter. A teacher who was there emotionally for the child, giving accolades when achievements were made, but also for praising the child when they had truly tried but failed, helping to bolster their self-esteem. A teacher who was there for your child to talk to when something was troubling them. Would you think this is a GREAT teacher.! They REALLY care about my childs' education, they care about my childs' emotional state and wellbeing.

THEN, you find out they are homosexual, would that change your way of thinking about this teacher? Personally, their sexual preference is none of my business as long as they are doing the job they are being paid to do. They aren't pressuring my child to take on THEIR sexuality.

I was deeply saddened when I read this a few days ago, for the lose of a young life and for the parents of this child. The "kids" who were responsible for this tragedy should be held accountable for their actions. This was one of the worst invasions of privacy I could think of. First to secretly "spy" on him, and then to post it on the internet? Where did rational thinking come into play here? There wasn't any. Will these "kids" have to take responsiblity for their actions? Probably not, nowadays it's too easy to claim deniablility. No one has to be responsible for their actions anymore. (But this is a totally different issue, and sorry for the derail).

I truly don't think I would want to be a young person in these times. I truly believe life was so much simpler back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, but this is just my opinion....

 

[chayton]

To me this is more than homosexuality

This could have been a teenage girl having sex for the first time or a young man having sex with his mothers best friend or someone masturbating, for me this is a gross invasion of privacy regardless of who was involved, that he was gay should have no relevance really.

Privacy in this sort of setting should be protected to the full strength of the law, when it becomes a trivial thing to be able to video someone in compromising act and the consequences be insignificant then we all had better watch out.

Absolutely agree 100% :notworthy