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What exactly is a "bonus abuser"?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Addisyn, Nov 25, 2006.

    Nov 25, 2006
  1. Addisyn

    Addisyn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Underground Sewer Access
    I have been reading through the various awards given by Casiomeister and following some of the threads. Specifically one concerning Captain Cook Casino.

    Fall From Grace Award 2005 (runner up)

    Exactly how does one abuse a bonus? If you sign up for a casino, take their bonus, meet the wagering requirements and happen to have money to withdraw how is this abuse?

    Are players limited to the number of casinos they may join? I would think if you aren't making duplicate accounts then what is the beef?

    I have seen this term thrown around and decided I needed to know what it really meant. :what:
     
  2. Nov 25, 2006
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    At quite a few casinos if you make your first deposit, take a bonus and win, then you're a bonus abuser.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Nov 26, 2006
  5. pambo

    pambo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    australia
    technically, it should be impossible to abuse a bonus because if one doesn't meet the stated requirements, they don't get paid. they have this "good faith" clause though that expects more play from the punter than satisfying bonus requirements.

    what can you do?
     
  6. Nov 26, 2006
  7. jerrylee

    jerrylee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    policymaker
    Location:
    Playa del Vaquero (I wish)
    I know it's been beaten to death, what is an abuser, who's abusing who, etc.
    but I know that one of the accredited groups (GV) changed their T&C's to combat what they deem is bonus abuse...making a killing on the sign up bonus with low house advantage games.
    Now they only allow small stakes for BJ , for example..
     
  8. Nov 26, 2006
  9. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm a blackjack player myself...so I guess I'm a bonus abuser if I take a bonus that's offered where I can play blackjack? Hardly so...

    If other places don't want bonus abusers, or even the thought of it, then they need to disallow all games except for slots.

    If they want to allow BJ and claim 100x+ WR, then by all means HONOR cashouts if someone gets lucky enough to make it through. Don't label them as a bonus abuser...the same goes for other high WR games.
     
  10. Nov 26, 2006
  11. Addisyn

    Addisyn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Underground Sewer Access
    So what I am getting from all your input is there is no such thing as a bonus abuser. Just online casinos that hate it when we win. :lolup: :lolup: :lolup:
     
  12. Nov 26, 2006
  13. Sodax77

    Sodax77 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Human Being
    Location:
    EU|FI
    Exactly ;)

    Here is a good old example:

    Reef Club Casino - Cassava Enterprises
    Bonus policy - You must register/login in order to see the link.
    And then

    "Happy Gaming" @ Reef Club! :thumbsup:
     
  14. Nov 26, 2006
  15. amatrine

    amatrine Crazy Cat Lady webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona City, Az
    Re

    I always though a bonus abuser was someone who only plays with a bonus every time. Waiting for that definition to come out in websters,lol

    Ama
     
  16. Nov 26, 2006
  17. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    At some casinos a bonus abuser is someone who takes a bonus and is smart or lucky enough to come out ahead. You can even be labelled a bonus abuser if you do not take a bonus. :confused:
     
  18. Nov 26, 2006
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Bonus Fraud

    Anyone who can "abuse" a bonus with 200x WR is clearly up to something:D


    Casinos seem keen to muddy the distinction between bonus abuse and fraud, with the implication that those who win with their bonus must be committing fraud, but the casino is having trouble working out how (perhaps because the player didn't). They then bring out the "abuse" accusation to deny the cashout.
    Unlike a court of law, it is usually down to the casino manager's "gut feeling" that cash-ins are denied and the player called a criminal (Fraud is a crime, whether committed by player or casino).
    Business, be it casino or double glazing salespersons, find it easy to screw the customer, and some rogue characters deliberately set up shop to do this from the outset, given that casinos are less regulated than double glazing companies, it is hardly surpising that fraudsters are attracted to the idea of starting their own casino.

    Casinos now suffer the consequences of this cavalier attitude in the development of the player fraudsters. They see casinos getting away with "murder" and just want a slice of the cake too. Casinos then have to tighten even further, and end up screwing innocent players, who then may decide that the whole industry is corrupt, and that they cannot get a fair deal unless they play the casinos at their own game. This began with "bonus abuse", and soon went on to multiple account bonus abuse, using false identities to have several goes at the bonuses. Beyond this, financial fraud, with fraudsters using money from stolen sources to play (or withdraw into a "clean" account); this includes players who make a chargeback when they lose and pocket the winnings when they win (there are a few casinos that do this also, deny a cash-out when a player wins, but happily accept deposits and play when the player is losing - if a player is in breach of terms, they are just as in breach when losing than when winning, so ALL wagering should be voided, not just the last winning session).

    A definition? this has been discussed at length, but casino operators will not define what is a bonus abuser, as doing so would limit their ability to identify other forms of abuse. Initially, abusing a bonus meant making thousands of tiny bets on a game like Blackjack and cashing out at the end of meeting WR with a small profit. Now, abuse includes making a very high risk bet, or series of bets, in order to win big or die very quickly with the bonus. As soon as another strategy turns out a significant number of winners, this too will become "bonus abuse" - this implies that playing to win is sufficient to attract attention.

    With casinos making bonuses ever more complicated, players need to get cleverer too, and many websites have sprung up to cater for this, and now a brand new form of bonus abuse emerges, playing by rote (usually the accusation is that the new player got a skilled friend to play for them, and they justify this by saying that their pattern of depositing for the maximum bonus and playing skillfully means that they MUST be a member of a ring of friends rather than playing for "their own entertainment".
     
    5 people like this.
  20. Nov 26, 2006
  21. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    B&M casinos also like to confuse card counting and cheating and try to give the impression that card counting is somehow illegal.

    I conside the following to be bonus abuse: withdrawing the player's own money after receiving the bonus and only playing with the bonus, or hedging bets at baccarat, roulette, craps or sic bo to make a guaranteed profit.
     
  22. Nov 26, 2006
  23. Addisyn

    Addisyn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Underground Sewer Access
    Some casinos require you to play your deposit AND bonus in the WR? I noticed once when I thought I had met my WR and tried to cash out the message told me I would forfeit my bonus amount. I didn't cash out.

    Others require you to play the bonus X amount of times before they will allow you to make any withdrawals. I see this a lot in the RTG casinos.

    I haven't run across a casino that would allow me to withdraw my deposit once my bonus was applied without some T&Cs being met.
     
  24. Nov 27, 2006
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Bonuses.

    Until recently, the Crypto casinos did allow this, and even more than once in some cases. This changed recently with the use of codes and an announcement that no withdrawals could be made till the full WR had been completed.

    Grandmaster has the best definition "I conside the following to be bonus abuse: withdrawing the player's own money after receiving the bonus and only playing with the bonus, or hedging bets at baccarat, roulette, craps or sic bo to make a guaranteed profit."

    Pity this is too simple for casinos to use. They seem to include any winning strategy as abuse.

    Another definition some casinos rely on is a player who only ever deposits when a bonus is offered. However, this makes sense from the player's point of view as many players are playing with bonuses, and if other casinos are offering bonuses it makes sense to deposit there first before depositing at a casino that offers nothing. Most casinos are seen as the same as each other, the only way they can stand out is by the promotions on offer.
     
  26. Nov 27, 2006
  27. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    For me there is a distinction between a "bonus abuser" and a "bonus hunter".

    An "abuser" is IMO someone who acts dishonestly in some way: IE; signs up multiple accounts to get more than one bonus (like the old "a friend/wife/son/cat of mine played on my computer" excuse - lol).

    A "hunter" is one who works the casinos offering bonuses using them to their advantage, but within the terms.

    In my mind, a casino that relies on bonuses to obtain and retain players has to expect that both types of player will pass through their doors and I have little sympathy with either casino or player when problems arise to be honest, although "hunters" are quite within their rights to try IMO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2006
    2 people like this.
  28. Nov 27, 2006
  29. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    This is how I see it, too. Nothing wrong with a bonus hunter/advantage player or whatever who honestly uses bonuses, hewing to the T&C's offered by the casino management.

    To me an abuser is someone who dishonestly breaks those terms and conditions and still expects to be rewarded.
     
  30. Nov 28, 2006
  31. EasyRhino

    EasyRhino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Analyst
    Location:
    San Diego
    Things that would tick off a casino, in decreasing level of probable anger:

    1) Cheating/hacking
    2) Creating multiple accounts
    3) Robot software
    4) Only depositing when there's a bonus
    5) When playing a bonus, just barely meeting the WR, then cashing out.

    I would expect that, eventually, a casino would close the account of someone doing 1 through 3. And 4 and 5 combined would get you closed too, if they detected it.

    Personally, I don't think it's "abuse" in the bad sense as long as the player follows all the annoying byzantine rules that the casino sets out. Even if the player's goal is to flog the casino like a rented mule.
     
  32. Nov 28, 2006
  33. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Emotion has no place in this, although I suspect that casino managements occasionally let that get the better of them.

    It's a straight business decision and the casino really holds all the cards because management frames the T&Cs and should consider the risks attached to their offers in full before these are launched.

    And casinos always have the legitimate right to lock out players whom they feel are "flogging them like a rented mule" or cheating. Provided that in cases where there is not dishonesty and wilful breaking of the T&Cs they (casino management) first meet all obligations accrued to date.
     
  34. Nov 29, 2006
  35. dirk_dangerous

    dirk_dangerous Dormant account

    There is no such thing as a bonus abuser.

    It's just a term the casinos and affiliates made up so they can steal winnings from players.
     
  36. Nov 29, 2006
  37. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    How can you say that?

    Ok, so let's say I take a bonus at a casino. The deposit is $500. The bonus is $500, and it's cashable, and given up front.

    The WR is 15*(D+B), which would be $15,000.

    I head over to slots, winning $5,000 after $2,000 of wagers.

    I then try and withdraw my deposit, bonus, and winnings without meeting the WR.

    I'm not a bonus abuser? :eek:

    From what you're saying, the casino would have to pay me *everything*, eating $500 on top of my deposit & winnings, because of the bonus. Instead, they have this clause to rightfully label me a bonus abuser and void my play, winnings, and bonus - thus giving me back only my deposit.

    I do, however, agree with part of your statement. There are a few rogues out there that will apply this FU clause - only because you won too much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2006
  38. Nov 29, 2006
  39. rabiddog

    rabiddog Newbie member

    Occupation:
    Self employed
    Location:
    dogpound USA
    I think it was UKBetting that closed my account after 3 months of playing their monthly bonuses. Lost the bonus and my deposit every month and they said I was abusing their bonus as the reason for closing my account. Well they didnt actually close my account, just wouldnt allow me to play for bonuses anymore. They said I could still play there.
     

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