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What do you make of this t+c ?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by kidgloves, Mar 26, 2014.

    Mar 26, 2014
  1. kidgloves

    kidgloves Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Leicester
    Not sure what the intention of this t+c at Betfair is....

    Playing equal to or more than 500 consecutive hands/spins on any game and/or playing any game consistently for a period longer than two hours while a bonus is active.
    EG – You set any game to run on auto spin for 500 spins while you have an active bonus in your account and/or you play for a period of two hours or more (irrelevant of how many sessions) while you have an active bonus.





    Any ideas ??
     
  2. Mar 26, 2014
  3. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, it's an anti-AP term. An AP commonly uses low-variance games on autoplay to get through WR therefore not interacting with the games like a player 'using the bonus to enhance his gaming experience'. Mind you, this term as they've wrote it is potentially unfair - I've often joined a casino and played a favourite (say TSII) for the whole duration of my WR and beyond, thousands of spins, over a few sessions.
    The term is vague and unspecific. It effectively limits your play on any one favourite slot you might have.

    As unofficial T&C's editor I could write this better to specifically target AP's and let us normal players play any slot we like for as long as we like.:)
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Mar 26, 2014
  5. Tropicana50

    Tropicana50 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    England
    As Dunover mentioned, I assume its to try and stop you from grinding out your bonus once you have a top line reached.

    - T
     
  6. Mar 26, 2014
  7. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Why would a person take a bonus without a plan to get passed the wage requirement.

    I don't take deposit bonuses because I can't be bothered sifting through all the terms and conditions and then spend my time trying to get passed the WR.

    But on those rare occasions, taking a deposit bonus has screwed me in the long run because I didn't follow some sort of start with high and end with low variance pre-plan.

    If you play any slot game long enough you will go broke. That is a fact. Taking a deposit bonus that forces you to sit through thousands of spins whether you're winning or losing doesn't really seem to help me in the long run. I'm sure there are times when you start losing right away and you might be glad you took the bonus so you can keep playing after your deposit is gone but for the most part, in my experience when I do get ahead I can't quit because I still have this huge WR sitting in front of me.

    Now you have two options, keep playing as you were and hope you'll keep winning. (Unlikely)

    Or find the lowest variance game you can play and grind down the WR so you can actually cash out some of the money you won.

    The problem with the second one is some of these casinos seem to think you're somehow abusing the system by trying not to go broke.

    And then when some players go full tilt and find out what game they can make the quickest profit on and which game they can grind the WR down with after the casino calls them cheaters.

    I know some people have a difference of opinion about this but my opinion is if you're playing games you're allowed to play and you don't wager more than you're allowed to wager, you should be able to do whatever the hell you want. And if you found some way to take one of these deposit bonuses and not go broke trying to clear the WR then good for you.

    A casino gave me 50 free spins in Gold Factory (20 out of 50 lines played) recently and the damn thing kept hitting bonus features the entire time I played. It sounds great but there's a 30x WR on all the money I win while I'm playing these free spins. By the time I was down to my last 10 spins it had paid about 45 dollars and all I kept thinking was "how in the hell am I going to wager 1350 dollars?"

    I played the entire 47 dollars it won at minimum bet on video slots and managed to wager about 135 before I went broke. lol

    But here's the thing, if I was playing that game without a bonus and it was hitting like that playing all the lines maybe when it was all said and done I could have just cashed out. Not kept wagering until I was broke.

    Whether the casinos like it or not you have to have some kind of plan to grind down these wage requirements. If you don't you're screwed.
     
    6 people like this.
  8. Mar 26, 2014
  9. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    I think this term is stupid unless it specifically states a low variance slot. I will usually play 2K spins on immortal romance because that is my favourite game and I may lose on it in the end. If I play with a bonus I don't want to worry about how many spins I can play on any one slot before I switch. I know Betfair for the most part is a good outfit but they are not accredited here for a reason. I am just saying.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Mar 26, 2014
  11. PCJACKPOT2008

    PCJACKPOT2008 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Pokerplayer
    Location:
    Sweden
    This is Betfair? When I asked livechat about they said it was more about no more then two hours rather then autoplaying. :confused: Betfair have had some great reloads with 10x B WR and i've played those knowing about the vague terms.
     
  12. Mar 26, 2014
  13. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    The house already has the edge and they want us to start playing games a certain way to decrease our chances of winning? Rogue like behavior.

    :rolleyes:
     
  14. Mar 26, 2014
  15. kidgloves

    kidgloves Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Leicester
    Yes, I can really sympathise with Betfair when I decide to play Immortal Romance, that banker, that safe retreat, that wager grinding low variance old friend. I can totally understand when I hit that lightning strike 4 reel Wild Desire for a couple of thousand and it all gets confiscated because I've been playing a slot for a little more time than it takes to watch a decent film.
    This sign up bonus already has a phantom bonus, is x37 (ok not that bad) but I don't really be wanting to create spread sheets on time limits for each slot.
    Either I have an ever expanding waist line, or the hoops to be jumped through during wr at some places are getting ever smaller.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Mar 27, 2014
  17. slotplayer

    slotplayer Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    USA
    I'll put it simply:

    I don't play online but I do go the land casino, I go to get away from doing work.
     
  18. Mar 29, 2014
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's Betfair, no real surprise that they try another stunt when they think the heat is off.

    It won't stop the APs in any case, they will move between a selection of games, no more than 400 or so spins on each, and easily sidestep this term as written. Betfair will then have to pull an FU clause on them. Recreational players are far more likely to fall foul of at least one provision. This is especially so when promotions are sometimes run that reward achievements on a specific slot, like the current 5000 credit prize for achieving a specific win on Avalon II.

    The wording of no more than 2 hours play regardless of whether it's all at once or separate sessions is not at all clear. Does it mean that you have only 2 hours in total to meet WR, or is it just an additional restriction on how much you can play an individual slot?

    If they are more worried about the 2 hours, why not have the software boot players after 1 hour and 59 minutes for an enforced break. They could even call it a "responsible gambling measure".
     
  20. Apr 5, 2014
  21. kidgloves

    kidgloves Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Leicester
    Well, I may have fallen fowl of this t+c already. I signed up to Betfair last night and the list of accepted slots that can be played with the SUB is pretty mundane, and includes a lot of Jackpot Slots but the lag on them is mind numbing. Non-jackpot slots play with far less lag, but most are uninteresting in my view. I settled down for the most part on Gladiator.
    It wasn't until about half an hour ago, I remembered this thread, and the t+c about 2 hours max on one slot, so I'm currently sat in a live support queue (and have been for 20 mins with 26 people ahead of me :mad:) waiting to ask if I've already forfeited this bonus due to the Gladiator play. I have played other slots, it's border line whether I've breached the 2hr limit, but I fear the worst.
    I'll be the first to admit that it's my own fault if I've fallen fowl of this, particularly in the light of me starting this thread, but it also shows how easy it is to forget about draconian laws issued from high when you are just trying to enjoy yourself.
    Heck, it's not even as if I've got a viable cashout opportunity yet - I'm on a SUB of £100 deposit and they chuck in £200 - WR is x37 on the bonus. I'm currently sat on 41% complete with £740 in the tank.
    But if they show me the red light, there's no point playing it through on sensible stakes, I'll probably just kamikaze the lot and cool off on SUB's for a while.
     
  22. Apr 5, 2014
  23. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Do mention to them about all the lag, hence why there's probs a big queue, all complaining, Tell them if wasn't no lag than it would of been no where near the time you spent on machine, If they try flogging you of than there not fair at all, I used to play there long time back and cannot remember having any problems
     
  24. Apr 5, 2014
  25. kidgloves

    kidgloves Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Leicester
    Well, I haven't broken the law it seems.
    Their chat has been busy because of Grand National issues it seems.
    Chat transcript below, that clears some of the issues of this thread up -

    Chantelle : Hello welcome to Betfair you are chatting with Chantelle. How can I help?
    Me: Hi, I signed up to the casino yesterday, and have played with a bonus, there is a condition attached where slot play is restricted to 2 hours on a specific slot. I need to know whether I have exceeded this yet on the Gladiator (non jackpot) slot
    Chantelle: Sure, let me check that for you, one moment please
    Chantelle: As per terms and conditions, you can play up to 2 hours per session
    Chantelle: Seeing as you stopped playing at 19:56, the next time you launch this game you will start a new session, meaning that you have another 2 hours and you must not exceed 500 spins
    Me: Ok, thank you - have I been within the 500 spins for all my sessions since signing up on that slot ?
    Chantelle: Yes, the first session you played had 479 spin and the second session had 109 spin
    Me: Wow, that was lucky - so you can confirm that currently I haven't broken the t's and c's, and that each new session allows for a fresh set of 500 spins, and/or 2 hour limit on one specific slot?
    Chantelle: Yes, I can confirm that you have not broken the terms and conditions as you have not exceeded the 2 hour limit in a session and you have also not exceeded the 500 spins allowed per session
    Me: Many thanks. Finally, a case scenario - if I play for example - 499 spins then log out and back in again within a minute or so, does the new login to carry on playing the same slot mean a new session, so theoretically, you can carry on playing pretty much straight away ?
    Chantelle: In this case, if you had to play up to 499 spins, we would recommend that you log out and wait a minimum of 30minutes before logging back on and continue playing
    Me: Brill, that clears things up. Does casino live support have any direct link, or do I always have to go through sports live support and then get passed here (which takes a lot of time)
    Chantelle: I apologise for any inconvenience. Due to the Grand National races we have been extremely busy this evening
    Me: Of course, thanks for your help Chantelle.
     
  26. Apr 5, 2014
  27. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    glad you never broke t&cs but think its a crazy rule, so from reading what you posted you can not play over 500 spins in a row on same slot , think if other casinos had that rule id have broke it many times as ive played low risk slots like Kathmandu for well over 500 spins before in a row to get through a wagering requirement. guess I need to make sure casinos I use don't come up with this crazy term as well
     
  28. Apr 5, 2014
  29. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    So you can't play a slot for 2 hours and you can't play more than 500 spins on a slot in the same session. What are we children that need to be supervised? Damn glad I don't play at Betfair. These rules are ridiculous. I have been known to grind out a wr on a lower variance slot from time to time so that I can cash out and that does not make me an AP player in my book. I usually make the most spins on a slot I enjoy and if its hot at that time.
    If I had to count the spins and watch the clock for each slot I play then the fun would quickly be taken out of playing. The name Betfair seems a bit ironic IMHO

    Kidgloves I hope you win a decent amount:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  30. Apr 5, 2014
  31. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Wow you scraped the barrel with them 479 spins :)
    I think this rule is because of bonus abuse ect, But it seems that the rule is in place as she seemed to no about it alright, (irrelevant of how many sessions) again I think thats been put there because of the abuse, as she said you can log in and out and start fresh, As I said b4 I used to play there alot and had no troubles, Gl with wr
     
  32. Apr 5, 2014
  33. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    I think it was stated earlier in the thread that true AP (abusers) will find a way to abuse a bonus no matter what rules are put in place. I agree with this 100%. Therefore these rules are pedantic and dare I mention predatory since a player can go over 500 spins easily on a slot if they are not careful. I don't play at Betfair so its no skin off my nose but I can see innocent players falling afoul of these rules while the true AP players laughing all the way to the bank so to speak.
     
  34. Apr 6, 2014
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Support already confirmed this, a player can play up to 499 spins, log off and on again (ideally leaving a 30 minute gap), and steer clear of the trap.

    This means that the clock watching, note taking, AP will have no trouble, but the recreational player may become so absorbed into the game that they lose track of time, and lose track of spins.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Apr 6, 2014
  37. mrmark21

    mrmark21 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Telecommunications Consultant
    Location:
    australia
    Does everyone realize Betfair is on the rogue list? I'd stay far away from that casino sounds like they haven't changed at all. Quite a few players have probably been bitten by those T&Cs. IMO that rule is there for no other reason than to confuse players so the casino can confiscate winnings. You would have to work very had to avoid getting caught out by them.

    I'd rather take a bonus than not. I don't think I'd get caught out by those T&Cs but that's only because of the way I play. I move from slot to slot doing fifteen-twenty spins on each and instead of grinding my winnings I tend to up my bets. I play for fun (mostly) so deposit small. That way I can pass it off as entertainment. Deposit bonuses just mean extra entertainment because they are more bang for you buck. But sometimes they aren't worth the hassle because of the T&Cs attached. This strikes me as one of those times.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Apr 6, 2014
  39. kidgloves

    kidgloves Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Leicester
    I wouldn't be surprised at all if they come up with another reason for confiscating funds should I make wr - probably because I followed the letter of the law regarding 2hr limits and 500 spins, that this in itself makes me an advantage player and they can use the term most casinos have about "any activity that we deem unusual" blah blah...

    You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't..
     
    1 person likes this.

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