Warning! Casino Riva( acf-webmaster) are SCAM!

bankroll4you

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Location
from the word
Hello,

I am one of Gambling Affiliate affilates.
I'm working with them since march 2010. Until now, there were no problems with Casino Riva campaign. Payment were on time. But on the 15 July I got this mail:

Dear Affiliates,

The CPA deal for Casino Riva Polish campaign is stopping today. From now, you will get paid 25% RevShare on the net revenue generated from your players.

We also inform you that for the period of May, June until the 13Th of July, the gains generated from Casino Riva Campaigns will stay on pending in your account for a delay of about 3 months. Our partner Casino Riva wish to do a deep check on the activity of the players recruited during that period before validating the payments and the validation of the CPA’s.This change on the deal concerns only Polish campaign, other Casino Riva campaigns are still running with the existing deals.

We are sorry about that additional delay and we thank you for your understanding.

Best regards,


Why Casino Riva decided to held payments for players so late?
(2 days before day of paying?), why they informed us so late about problems with players from May and June? On which basis they demanded 3 months to verify players? (5 months overall) Isn't that strange tht all polish affiliates has the same problem now?

Few days ago I've recived report from May and June. I've got 23/30 players accepted from May and only 2/45 from June.
After sending mails to Casino Riva and acf-webmaster I've got respond: Casino Riva said they got no deals with me and told me to contact Gambling affiliation, and that I will get no money from them.

I've spoke to Gambling-affiliation manager - he told me to speak to...Casino Riva, and not to them. So it is like that: Casino Riva says I need to contact Gambling affiliation, and Gabling affiliation says to contact Casino Riva.
Manager also confirmed that they are verifying players asking them for documents. The are sending mails to players that they will get 15€/GB/$ bonus if they send documents to Casino Riva. If a player do that - he is accepted as verified and affiliate is paid form him. If he doesn't do that he is of course rejected.

My question to all managers is simple: when casinos started to verify players this way? This is the way to verify you traffic? What about all players that were on holidays (Hey, it's summer!), received their e-mail in SPAM folder, or those that didn't send documents cause they weren't interested in bonus?
Which of you, managers, would send his/her documents after getting such a mail?

I would like to get explanation here on forum from Casino Riva. I request payment for 52 players.
 

ACF-Benoit

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Location
UK
Hello,

We have identified auto-incentive which is not accepted in our TC and can be detected by analysing the affiliate's website, the quantity of players, followed by the number of deposits, the netgaming, the computer serial number, the method of payment of those players.
Unfortunately, this information remains confidential and can only be shared "results" to make it public, by the affiliate.
ACF ensure to secure all informations from our partners, which is logic for an affiliation platform.
We've always kept a basic agreement rule with GA, which is to check the players before any payment.

You have contracted with Gambling affiliation, please contact them for any futher information, as you are not subscribed to ACF plat-form.

If players identify themselves after six months (less or more..) we will pay them according to the TC set up during the period of the deal. You can be sure that we have also tested on other websites as Fulltilt,
Pokerstars, or even Party Poker, and all operator/plat-form are requesting the same conditions.

ACF informed more than a month ago changes of TC in advance to GA, our TC are now based on revshare commission.
According to our explanations, could you please let us know what you consider as SCAM here, Gambling affiliation ???.
We hope that we have answered your questions once again.

ACF-Webmaster for Casino Riva
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hello,

We have identified auto-incentive which is not accepted in our TC and can be detected by analysing the affiliate's website, the quantity of players, followed by the number of deposits, the netgaming, the computer serial number, the method of payment of those players.
Unfortunately, this information remains confidential and can only be shared "results" to make it public, by the affiliate.
ACF ensure to secure all informations from our partners, which is logic for an affiliation platform.
We've always kept a basic agreement rule with GA, which is to check the players before any payment.

You have contracted with Gambling affiliation, please contact them for any futher information, as you are not subscribed to ACF plat-form.

If players identify themselves after six months (less or more..) we will pay them according to the TC set up during the period of the deal. You can be sure that we have also tested on other websites as Fulltilt,
Pokerstars, or even Party Poker, and all operator/plat-form are requesting the same conditions.

ACF informed more than a month ago changes of TC in advance to GA, our TC are now based on revshare commission.
According to our explanations, could you please let us know what you consider as SCAM here, Gambling affiliation ???.
We hope that we have answered your questions once again.

ACF-Webmaster for Casino Riva


It's likely to be the retrospective implementation of these T & C changes that are causing problems. Changing to 25% rev share from a given date is one thing, but to then add stringent requirements to deals done BEFORE this date that were NOT in the original terms is going to get some affiliates annoyed. This is not a GENERAL change either, it seems specific to Polish players.

It seems the Poles have caught on to the problems surrounding CPA deals, what took them so long;)

The original terms should have guarded against this, for example requiring the player to deposit before they are considered "accepted" in terms of generating revenue for the affiliate. This looks like an attempt to "shut the stable door after the horse has bolted", and worse, this action was only taken 2 days before payments were due to go out.

When in a dispute party A says to contact party B, who then sends the complainant back again to party A (who no doubt will keep the loop going forever), it becomes clear that the issue is being avoided, rather than dealt with, hence the suspicion of "scam".

Riva & Gambling affiliation need to get together and decide which of them is going to be the point of contact for affiliates affected by this - simply shunting them from one to the other will ensure they look elsewhere for a solution, such as opening up the issue to the forums for discussion, and the hope that negative publicity will FORCE one of the two parties involved in running the affiliate program to start talking to the affiliates concerned.

Requesting documentation from players is NORMAL, but usually takes place after a player submits a withdrawal. Where it is suspected that many BOGUS players have signed up in order to generate CPA payments to a given affiliate, but with no intention to play with their own money in the longer term, waiting until players withdraw before requesting documents is leaving it too late.

Players conspiring with affiliates to "rinse" CPA deals is the "problem" with this kind of marketing strategy, and it is surprising that CPA still plays a part in recruiting players. Unfortunately, some groups have "screwed" affiliates who signed up for the usual percentage rev share deal, only to have the program unilaterally terminated by the program, leaving the casino with some of the players, still earning money, but the affiliate no longer getting the "lifetime" rev share they were expecting. This can be avoided by going down the CPA route, where after a month or two, it matters not whether the "lifetime" rev share deal is cut short.

I once saw a casino offer CPA at £150 per player, triggered as soon as the player deposits £50 (win or lose). Even where the players are "bogus", the profit for the rogue affiliate is STILL £100, rather than the £150 it would be were the bogus player able to engineer the withdrawal of their £50.

52 players under such a deal would lead to a profit of £5200, INCLUDING the fact that £50 is sacrificed to the casino in order to trigger a CPA payment.

The rep should worry about where ELSE this is going on, rather than focussing on Poland as though it were the ONLY place where the problem exists. It might be more NOTICEABLE there due to the number of cases vs genuine players signing up, but I'll bet it is happening elsewhere at a lesser rate, but not getting noticed because most players ARE from genuine traffic.

This is the affiliate version of players' "bonus abuse".
 

ACF-Benoit

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Location
UK
Hello,

We understand your concern, please note that this affiliate have agreed with Gambling affiliation, so he should take his action against them, since we already discussed this issue with gambling affiliation and agreed to pay only players cleared and verify.

If the players are real why they do not identify themselves or reply to the operator request email and phone.

We are doing are our best to provide the best services, in our business incentive or fraud is unacceptable.

ACF represent 25 000 affiliates.

Please make sure this affiliate get his issue sorted directly with his B2B contractor Gambling affiliation.
Note: Gambling affiliation does not let us validate each affiliate before display, gambling affiliation does not provide the traffic source, the only way to manage frauds is to monitor players.

Best regards
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hello,

We understand your concern, please note that this affiliate have agreed with Gambling affiliation, so he should take his action against them, since we already discussed this issue with gambling affiliation and agreed to pay only players cleared and verify.

If the players are real why they do not identify themselves or reply to the operator request email and phone.
We are doing are our best to provide the best services, in our business incentive or fraud is unacceptable.

ACF represent 25 000 affiliates.

Please make sure this affiliate get his issue sorted directly with his B2B contractor Gambling affiliation.
Note: Gambling affiliation does not let us validate each affiliate before display, gambling affiliation does not provide the traffic source, the only way to manage frauds is to monitor players.

Best regards

Easy, players can be GENUINE, yet decide NOT to carry on being a player after their initial experience. They are likely therefore to IGNORE requests for documentation, which is for the benefit of the AFFILIATE, not the PLAYER concerned.

You also need to instruct Gambling Affiliation to STOP telling these affiliates to deal with you, and deal with it themselves. They may be passing the buck because it is YOUR decision to proceed in this manner, and NOT that of Gambling Affiliation, so they feel there is nothing they can do for affiliates who are having payments held up because players have not been verified.

It is an illustration of the problems of having too many intermediaries in a process. It would be better for affiliates to contract directly with a program, rather than go through a third party. Maybe the benefits offered by Gambling Affiliates seemed worth going through them rather than direct, and maybe in the past there have been no problems.
 

bankroll4you

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Location
from the word
Hello,

We understand your concern, please note that this affiliate have agreed with Gambling affiliation, so he should take his action against them, since we already discussed this issue with gambling affiliation and agreed to pay only players cleared and verify.

If the players are real why they do not identify themselves or reply to the operator request email and phone.

We are doing are our best to provide the best services, in our business incentive or fraud is unacceptable.

ACF represent 25 000 affiliates.

Please make sure this affiliate get his issue sorted directly with his B2B contractor Gambling affiliation.
Note: Gambling affiliation does not let us validate each affiliate before display, gambling affiliation does not provide the traffic source, the only way to manage frauds is to monitor players.

Best regards

Hello,

We have identified auto-incentive which is not accepted in our TC and can be detected by analysing the affiliate's website, the quantity of players, followed by the number of deposits, the netgaming, the computer serial number, the method of payment of those players.
Unfortunately, this information remains confidential and can only be shared "results" to make it public, by the affiliate.
ACF ensure to secure all informations from our partners, which is logic for an affiliation platform.
We've always kept a basic agreement rule with GA, which is to check the players before any payment.

You have contracted with Gambling affiliation, please contact them for any futher information, as you are not subscribed to ACF plat-form.

If players identify themselves after six months (less or more..) we will pay them according to the TC set up during the period of the deal. You can be sure that we have also tested on other websites as Fulltilt,
Pokerstars, or even Party Poker, and all operator/plat-form are requesting the same conditions.

ACF informed more than a month ago changes of TC in advance to GA, our TC are now based on revshare commission.
According to our explanations, could you please let us know what you consider as SCAM here, Gambling affiliation ???.
We hope that we have answered your questions once again.

ACF-Webmaster for Casino Riva

Hello

Well the first case is why did you finally answer after I pressured one of your managers Alex, if You are the Platinum sponsor of this forum ? I still did not received satisfying answer from You, and I still want some kind of a report with proofs that will show that traffic of my Polish players might be fraudalent ( it is suspicious that in one moment every Polish affiliate has the same problem that I do, and it is more suspicious because in the last few months there was no problems with any of the Polish players, but then in May I got payed for 75% of my players and then in June only for 5%.) So is it not interesting that if I had the same traffic in last few months suddenly you started saying that are my players are not real ?

Why you are still sending me to GA if it is your decision that you will not pay me and the GA is only third part of this case?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hello

Well the first case is why did you finally answer after I pressured one of your managers Alex, if You are the Platinum sponsor of this forum ? I still did not received satisfying answer from You, and I still want some kind of a report with proofs that will show that traffic of my Polish players might be fraudalent ( it is suspicious that in one moment every Polish affiliate has the same problem that I do, and it is more suspicious because in the last few months there was no problems with any of the Polish players, but then in May I got payed for 75% of my players and then in June only for 5%.) So is it not interesting that if I had the same traffic in last few months suddenly you started saying that are my players are not real ?

Why you are still sending me to GA if it is your decision that you will not pay me and the GA is only third part of this case?


It seems they do NOT have the necessary evidence to weed out the rogues, and have made a blanket decision not to pay (fully) ALL Polish affiliates until their players have verified themselves with the casino.

Sending you to GA is a stalling tactic. GA have NO POWER WHATSOEVER to assist in this matter, since this is a decision made by the CASINO, and IMPOSED on GA and the affiliates. I fail to see how progress can be made by taking this up with GA, could the rep explain to the forum how this will expedite matters faster than dealing with the casino affiliate program directly.
 

betpartners

Dormant account
webmeister
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Location
Gozo
This issue is under discussion at the GPWA and the problem is that the OP signed up with GA and not acf and thus acfs client is GA and GA's client is the OP

And thats a mess and that is what happens with third parties.

GA have apparently been invited in to the discussion and their response is being awaited.

Will be interesting how this is resolved
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This issue is under discussion at the GPWA and the problem is that the OP signed up with GA and not acf and thus acfs client is GA and GA's client is the OP

And thats a mess and that is what happens with third parties.

GA have apparently been invited in to the discussion and their response is being awaited.

Will be interesting how this is resolved

Nevertheless, ACF have broken the original agreement with GA, who in turn now cannot pay the affiliates who signed up. Although the affiliate has an agreement with GA, it was NOT GA that made this decision to withhold payments from Polish affiliates. GA can do nothing on its own to resolve things, it requires ACF to forward the payments to GA, who in turn can then fulfil the agreement with affiliates.

Perhaps these affiliates should ditch GA, and sign up directly with ACF. This will get rid of the "middleman" in the deal.

GA should have been more robust in dealing with this, since it was GA who told affiliates to take up matters with ACF themselves. I would have thought the whole point of using GA was to have "collective bargaining" as a benefit to make up for using an intermediary. It seems that when things got tough though, GA pulled out and left affiliates on their own to chase this up directly with ACF, who had a ready made excuse for NOT dealing with this - sending the affiliates back to GA.

If this is "all" Polish affiliates, they should bring collective pressure to bear on GA to sort this matter out with ACF.

We now seem to have THREE possible "scammers" involved.

1) ACF - unjustified blanket freezing of affiliate payments recorded as due.
2) GA - taking a "cut" through having affiliates use them as an intermediary, but not wanting to EARN this money when affiliates are having problems with the ACF program.

3) SOME affiliates, enough "unusual activity" to warrant ACF taking a closer look at things, and concluding that there IS a problem with many Polish players who have been signing up.
 

bankroll4you

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Location
from the word
Hello,

Let's start from the fact that I've just received report from GA regarding my players. There isn't any info in it, besides date of signup and deposit. I've demanded FULL report from you and any proof that my players are fraud as you keep stating.
You're trying to hide mentioning some paragraphs from your poor TC's and keep telling me you can't give me more details - if you accuse me of cheating - prove me it!

Your tactics is simple - you send me to GA and you know that they are just intermediary between me and you. All decisions were made by YOU, so it's natural that if you didn't paid GA for players, they won't pay me - and you keep sending me to them.

Your way of verifying traffic is unacceptable for me and probably all people on this forum. I understand that you can require docs when it comes to credit card deposit or withdrawal. But not all players will send their docs when you offer them bonus - this is simple. As I've mentioned before:
1) There were holidays
2) Most of these e-mails surely hit spam folders
3) Many of people won't send their documents cause that will be suspicous that somebody ask for them and offers money! Player isn't obliged to send you anything if he want and I bet some of players just ignored those e-mails.

My payout shouldn't depend on UNAWARE/WILLING/UNWILLING players! If you do that kind of veryfing players affiliate will probably get only a part of his earnings - not even close to 100%. I've lost 25% in May, 95% (!!!) in June.

That difference between months is super suspicious. I think that proves one thing - many players send their ID's in May, this is a great proof that my traffic was OK. You did a "great job" - saved nice sum of money on affiliates, well done.

Isn't that strange that during last few months I never had any traffic problems? I think that also proves that my traffic was OK. By your absurd verifying you can earn more money on your affiliates - cuttig their earnings. I know I'm not only one affiliate like that. I've already spoke with few people but they don't have courage to start fighting with you to get their HARD EARNED MONEY!

At the start I've sent you few mails, spoke with few managers. All people from your company were ingnoring me, and one EVEN TREATENED ME to stop posting here, cause he will start posting "bad" posts about me.

After the case started to get a bit louder in industry you suddenly shoved some interest. If I wouldn't post this on forums - You would even bother to answer me I guess, just keep ignoring as you did. I've offered you few times to make some kind of compromise with me and you also ignored that. Any self-respecting aff. program would try to do compromise and you didn't even started to try...

I feel cheated by you. Some time has passed. As you're not interested in making any kind of agreement with me I decided as follows:

As I didn't got payment for my 52 players - I will wait next 3 working days and give you one last chance to pay me. After that I will be forced to inform institutions that will hopefully help me.
I will send official complaint to Lotteries and Gaming Authority and eCorga. I will also run a site explaining how "nice" you treat your affiliates.

Have a nice day!

Bankroll4you
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Ummmm....aren't casino riva dodgy n e way?

I get ridiculous amounts of spam from them and that's usually a bad sign.

Maybe u should stick to promoting well respected brands

Good luck getting your money.

I think he has now found this out the hard way. It seems Riva have some suspicious traffic, but have decided to screw over EVERYBODY, using as justification a completely unrealistic requirement for proving a player as genuine.

Riva should KNOW (being as they are an operator), that players do NOT always send in documents once they have decided to finish with a casino. Many feel it intrusive enough sending such sensitive information as it is, and will grudgingly do so in order to get verified and paid. They are far less likely to send such data to sites they no longer intend to be a customer of. This does NOT necessarily make them "fraudulent traffic", yet Riva is taking this as 100% PROOF that such a player is not genuine.

Once a player has DEPOSITED, it should be possible to sort out who is genuine, and who is simply a "click through" intended to generate inflated traffic reports. All they need to do is ensure the deposits were genuine, and not from a deposit account also used on a different casino account. It may be easy to register multiple accounts, but it is a LOT harder to create multiple and unique deposit methods to support these accounts. Just how many bank accounts and cards can an individual get IN DIFFERENT NAMES in order to pull this off.
 
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