Viper Software..seems alot tighter to me

[tim5ny]

Anyone else feel that Microgaming,s Viper software doesn,t pay as well as the old software? I play the same games that I always have on the new software... but I can notice a significant difference in the payoffs. Treasure nile and Gopher Gold (my 2 favorites) are just not as good anymore. Am I just on a bad run?... or do you guys feel the same way? As for Thunderstruck.... what a waste of money. The bonus spins... if they come up at all.. a VERY far and few between. Just an observation from someone who,s been losing lately!!

 

[jinnia]

Hi tim5ny,

I just may be unlucky with microgaming run casinos, but I have played many of them nemerous times and have NEVER had a win after meeting my wagering requirements. As soon as I fulfill WR's, it's down hill all the way, and fast.

 

[The Dude]

Well since I don't play bonuses, I don't have Jinnia's prob

When it rains it pours. Sometimes while playing Thunderstruck or Spring Break, I don't hit shit. Like no free spins in a $100 betting spree at $2.25 a spin. The sometimes I make a killing. Last week I turned a $100 deposit at Grand Hotel into about $1400 playing Spring Break alone. I actually started feeling guilty with all of the free spins I was getting. I was getting free spins in free spins. It was crazy. After cashing out, I deposited $100 at Lucky Nugget and got that up to $700 something doing the Spring Break, Hot Shots thing. But then I got greedy and started maxing my bets out at $45 a spin. Guess where my money went

I prefer the multihand VP in the older casinos. It runs smoother in my opinion.

 

[jinnia]

oooook! Have I misread the wagering requirements? I don't take bonuses, but thought it read you still have a wagering requirement to meet with just a straight through deposit....??

 

[linda7]

I also agree that MG's viper software is real tight. I lost 1500.00 last night in about 2 hours. Time to find a new hobby. Its too frustrating to toss my cash to these casinos that have their software twisted too tight for living.
I will be playing online poker only.

 

[The Dude]

$1500??

You should have gone here instead:
Link Removed (invalid URL)

 

[tim5ny]

LOL!! Bryan! I can picture you now... Jammies and slippers on and playing with your Finding Nemo interactive book. Hope you get it!

 

[tim5ny]

$45.00 per spin Bryan? I thought I was insane! I must say though... Microgaming has a way of rewarding those big bets once in a while. Imagine the money with that size bet landing on a jackpot.

 

[The Dude]

I was hoping for it to pull up three or more scatters. I figured, what the hell, the winnings up to that point was free money....and it disappeared - poof -

 

[love2vegas]

I have had no luck playing the viper software either. Probably just the streak I've been on. The softwear does seem to play faster, so I can lose my money faster! As far as $45 a spin- way outta my league!

 

[rainman]

hate the viper software. Dealer wins like 7-8 hands with it unklike the old software which was more like 4-5 for the dealer out of ten. Thumbs down on the new software.Those are non random results.

 

[spearmaster]

You guys like roller coasters? Try Big Shot.

Minimum is $2.25 a spin - but I swear I get more hits which pay over $100 than those which pay less! You'll have some dry spells in between... but I swear this game hits 4 scatters for over $100 at least once every 100 spins... LOL... sometimes twice in a row!

 

[The Dude]

I'm spending WAY too much time slacking off in these damn casinos.

I have a newsletter to get out.

BTW I agree with Spear, it pays out well in spurts... too bad I'm not a baseball fan.

 

[spearmaster]

You're telling me? LMAO... I haven't gotten any real work done in the last month!

This is a real hot/cold machine - catch it at the right time and you will make a ton, but during the cold spell better go find something else.

My only complaint is that it doesn't have a bonus game - otherwise this would easily become my favorite slot of all time.

 

[umberto]

Why do you hate viper software????

I deposited 250 in river bell, took the 250$ bonus, left the machine running all night in expert mode and when i woke up in the morning..... Voila!!!!! 580$$$$ were waiting for me in river belle. That is 330$ win and i was only sleeping...!!! As i found out later using playcheck my balance got up to 680$ for one time then landed to 580 again. But 330$ is still good win for a man that was only sleeping!!!!!!

 

[umberto]

As i didn't mention it, I "was playing" BJ.

 

[rainman]

so u cheated umbreto figures

 

[tim5ny]

How exciting! What other great accomplishments have you made in your sleep?

 

[kniepm]

That's nothing, the other night I put an adult video in the player, went to bed and slept while it played. The next morning, I woke up with wood.

So what's the point? Where's the enjoyment of letting the casino play your hands for you while you sleep? And if you lose your bankroll while "asleep at the wheel," do you find the casino software to be suspect?

 

[spearmaster]

The next morning, I woke up with wood.


LOL...

Though I don't let the computer run while I sleep, I do use Viper to churn through 500 plays at a time sometimes. Especially useful if you have to meet bonus requirements.

It all depends on what tickles your fancy. It's kinda neat to know that your computer is making money for you while you sleep... especially at boring games like blackjack... but with slots I prefer to be at the wheel, so to speak - all the excitement happens when you hit a big win

It would also be nice to wake up to a royal flush every now and then... LOL...

It has the same excitement as if you were to buy a lottery ticket, but not know the results before you wake up in the morning - you wake up with a little anticipation. Good way to force yourself out of bed sometimes...

 

[umberto]

Kniepm, I really do not like your post here.
Do not say words on behalf of me. There is no need. I do not want it. You talk only for you. Did I mention that if i lost all my balance, I would say that the software is rigged? No. So speak for yourself and do not make easy and fast conclusions.

I do not know what you do in the night with adult videos but we are not interested to know.
You can visit a porno site to say your thoughts. This is a casino site. And here we talk about casinos. Not porn. Is that clear?

About the casino now ( which i think that you are not much interested... ), I tried to meet the WR. I didn't say that I leave the machine running in all casinos i play. I did it once. It worked. I posted here and all the others exept you found it exciting. So, I'm not interested about your opinion ( I do not know if the others are...).

Thank you.

Have a nice day ( or night if you prefer ).

 

[kniepm]

Apparently, "irony" is not among the words I allegedly said for you.

(Message edited by kniepm on December 14, 2003)

 

[rainman]

how can it play for u? is that not cheating?

 

[kniepm]

The Viper software allows the player to set what hands to hit, stand, double, etc. You can then set up to automatically play x number of hands or stop when you reach certain loss/profit limits.

Basically, you tell the software how to play and it does all the "hard work" of gambling for you.

 

[rainman]

how does it adjust the betting though? I downloaded 32red to try it and said only works in expert mode?

 

[bradleyt]

Why would you want to adjust your betting? It's been proven that flat betting is the most effective betting strategy there is. Visit the wizard for more details.

RE: Expert mode - when you're playing at a Viper site there's a button that says REGULAR/EXPERT. Once in expert mode it will auto play for you based on a pre-defined strategy. However you may need to adjust the strategy as it may not be set to optimal.

To find the optimal strategy visit the wizard!

 

[rainman]

flatbetting will get u nowhere. Up and down roller coaster. Simply is not true if u want to make any real money.

 

[venetian]

you guys are so cute you make me laugh out loud! I love the Viper and won't play on anything else. My wins are way up on VP but I wish I could do better on multihand. I've won all my royals on single play mostly Aces & Faces but once on J or B. I love the stats and live by them. If I am over 50% no wins I switch games no matter what. I agree $45 a hand!!!??? You have big ones for sure! :notworthy

 

[amatrine]

Re

I dont see any difference in the viper software other that its faster and bigger
so its easier for me to see. Now I dont like playing non viper,lol I feel
like an old lady squinting to see the screen compared to the new one.
I did real well at spin palace this weekend using it. I hit 1600 on major millions.
My heart stopped because it was the third payline I hit two major million symbols, hoping for the third, but got a red seven. Not bad though
Then hit another set of red sevens.
Luck just comes in spurts viper or non viper I think.

Ama

 

[LRDell]

I don't see a whole lot of difference in the slot tightness, but some of the new VP poker games have their problems. On both Aces and Faces and JoB 10 play I have noticed that the doubling is even more rigged then normal - huge percentage of face and Ace cards for the draw card and a huge number of times that the card "selected" just happens to be the only card lower then the draw card (even on those rare occasions when the draw card if low).

I have written in this forum before about my documentation that proves that the doubling portion of VP is definately slanted in the house favor - particularly the more times you attempt to double up, but I have not seen it as bad as on these two games before.

 

[pooter1]

I have noticed this too. Time after time I have pulled the only card lower than the dealers. I have bad luck but not that bad to pick it on a regular basis. I didnt pick the same card spot either. Just randomly out of the 4.

Also I have noticed a huge amount of aces/kings or unwinables when trying to double on a win bigger than twice the the amount bet or so. I am glad it isnt only me

I don't see a whole lot of difference in the slot tightness, but some of the new VP poker games have their problems. On both Aces and Faces and JoB 10 play I have noticed that the doubling is even more rigged then normal - huge percentage of face and Ace cards for the draw card and a huge number of times that the card "selected" just happens to be the only card lower then the draw card (even on those rare occasions when the draw card if low).

I have written in this forum before about my documentation that proves that the doubling portion of VP is definately slanted in the house favor - particularly the more times you attempt to double up, but I have not seen it as bad as on these two games before.

 

[hhcfreebie]

I have written in this forum before about my documentation that proves that the doubling portion of VP is definately slanted in the house favor - particularly the more times you attempt to double up, but I have not seen it as bad as on these two games before.

I beg to differ.
There is no house edge in doubling. If you do suspect the result is unfair, you are accusing the casinos to be cheating.
When we double, we always feel we are unlucky because we always loose the larger bet. Imagine you double 3 times, win twice and finally lost. We were lucky to win 66.7% of the time but we would only remember the lost. On the other hand, if you only double once on event payout (such as JoB), you will eventually notice that your win/lost is about the same.
Please post your result and I'll analysis what's the odds of your unfortunate outcome.
Also, there is no "loose" or "tight" software or casinos. They either offer a fair games (which most do) or they don't. (such as casino bar)

 

[LRDell]

I beg to differ.
Please post your result and I'll analysis what's the odds of your unfortunate outcome.

Interesting that you ask, since you have seen this info before (You were the first post after I listed it once before.) But here it is again (I did correct my use of 'house' card vs player cards - I used the wrong words last time). I am considering doing the same analysis on the new 10 play games I dicussed above.
THE DATA:

I documented and analyzed 308 hands of Jacks or Better poker on which I attempted to double my winnings. Realizing that what card the house is dealt is not the critical factor, but the cards that are dealt for you to choose from and what chances any of those cards has to beat it. Since the choice is from four cards, you have a 0% chance (all choice cards are higher), 25%, 50%, 75%, or 100% (all choice cards are lower). Here were the results:

On 242 hands on which I attempted to double $5 in winnings to $10, the house had a distinct and clear edge of 4%, based on the means, with 41 percent of hands having a less than 50% chance of winning and only 37 percent of hands have greater than 50% chance of winning.

It becomes even worse when attempting to double $10 in winnings to $20. Although there were only 62 hands, this is quite enough to come up with an everage and a mean that should only vary slightly from a larger number of hands. The house edge in this situation was 7%, with only 33% of the hands having a greater than 50% chance of winning, compared to 40% in the less than 50% category. Lots more high cards for the house and 0% chances, too.

Don't even ask about the few times I tried to make $20 into $40. On four attempts the house averaged a Jack as dealt card and a winning percentage 87%, three out of four of the hands giving the bettor 0% chance of a win. Four hands is not statistically significant, but given the other numbers, it certainly wasn't surprising.

HC - do you REALLY believe that the cards dealt in the doubling portion are actually randomly generated? What does everyone out there think?

 

[hhcfreebie]

THE DATA:

I documented and analyzed 308 hands of Jacks or Better poker on which I attempted to double my winnings. Realizing that what card the house is dealt is not the critical factor, but the cards that are dealt for you to choose from and what chances any of those cards has to beat it. Since the choice is from four cards, you have a 0% chance (all choice cards are higher), 25%, 50%, 75%, or 100% (all choice cards are lower). Here were the results:

I'd say it's a wierd way to see it. Dealer picks a card, then you pick a card. Whoever pick the highest card win. It doesn't matter how many cards you can choose. Your chance of winning or loosing is 46.15%. Your chance of tie is 7.69%. The STD of this game is 0.961.

On 242 hands on which I attempted to double $5 in winnings to $10, the house had a distinct and clear edge of 4%, based on the means, with 41 percent of hands having a less than 50% chance of winning and only 37 percent of hands have greater than 50% chance of winning.

It becomes even worse when attempting to double $10 in winnings to $20. Although there were only 62 hands, this is quite enough to come up with an everage and a mean that should only vary slightly from a larger number of hands. The house edge in this situation was 7%, with only 33% of the hands having a greater than 50% chance of winning, compared to 40% in the less than 50% category. Lots more high cards for the house and 0% chances, too.

Don't even ask about the few times I tried to make $20 into $40. On four attempts the house averaged a Jack as dealt card and a winning percentage 87%, three out of four of the hands giving the bettor 0% chance of a win. Four hands is not statistically significant, but given the other numbers, it certainly wasn't surprising.

HC - do you REALLY believe that the cards dealt in the doubling portion are actually randomly generated? What does everyone out there think?

So I take it you:
Lost 10 units when you tried to double $5 out of 242 hands, chance of loosing this much or more is 26.26% or about 1 in 4.
Lost 4 units when you tried to double $10 out of 62 hands, chance of loosing this much or more is 32.18% or about 1 in 3.
Lost 4 units when you tried to double $20 out of 4 hands, chance of loosing this much is 4.54% or about 1 in 22.
Overall, you lost 18 units out of 308 hands. Chance of loosing at least this much in a fair game is 14.97% or about 1 in 7.
I'll let people make up their own mind with the odds I presented here.

 

[LRDell]

I'd say it's a wierd way to see it. Dealer picks a card, then you pick a card. Whoever pick the highest card win. It doesn't matter how many cards you can choose. Your chance of winning or loosing is 46.15%. Your chance of tie is 7.69%. The STD of this game is 0.961.


It's not weird, it's the only way to look at it. The statistics you give only matter if it is a totally random card generation, which is the whole question here. It's not how many cards you can choose but the cards dealt from which you select. I compared the actual dealt hands against that random average to find the increased house edge.

My contention is only that the house has the dealing tweaked to give you a lesser percentage chance of selecting a higher card.

 

[Clayman]

My contention is only that the house has the dealing tweaked to give you a lesser percentage chance of selecting a higher card.

At least you seem to be assuming the dealer up-card is random.

Anyway, as always, it would be better to post the data from which you draw your conclusions, rather than just your conclusions. In this case that would be the actual cards. What was your W/L/T record anyway?

Apparently you would be happy if the dealer had 302 threes in a row and you had 302 hands with 2 twos and 2 fours since you would end up with a 50% chance of winning or losing and feel the cards were dealt fairly.

Anyway, I'll continue to double, believing it to be fair, until I'm convinced otherwise. You should too because your next 302 doubles might go alot better for you.

I do applaud you for keeping track of things and trying to analyze them. I don't think that can ever be a bad thing.

 

[jpm]

I agree with you LRDell, I also believe that doubling in MG videopoker (any & all flavors) is suspect, to say the least. I typically only double on a win of double my initial bet or sometimes triple, but typically double (basically trying to turn 2 pair into a straight). On one recent occassion playing A&F single line vp, the dealer 'randomly' picked an ace for himself on at least 5 or 6 times in a row! Of course I won none of those. Wish I was seeing aces that frequently in the main game. And doubling a second time is maybe a 1 in 100 shot after trying it many many times. I don't even bother anymore, if I get one double, I just take it. RTG & Playtech give me completely different results consistently. On RTG I almost always win the first, on playtech its probably 50/50.

 

[paul1]

I like the Viper Software. I was pretty paranoid about their Blackjack game before. Especially after the True Gambler thing. But I'm wondering if there really was a problem with their blackjack and perhaps it is ok now because I have actually seen the dealer BUST on the Viper Software. lol

One thing I like about the Viper is the auto-play settings on Video Poker. You can sit back and just click mindlessly without having to think. This is especially helpful when I am playing while plastered.

One thing about the auto-play I noticed. Twice recently it auto-held a King but not the suited Ten with it. I happened to notice that and kept the Ten with it, which I think is the correct play. So although auto-hold is good, they may not have it programmed optimally. Anyone else notice this?

Also, I LOVE the new Ten-Handed Aces & Faces and the even newer Ten-Handed Jacks-or-Better. I like the color coding. You can root for a YELLOW quads to pop up when you're drawing to trips. It's cool!

 

[paul1]

Gee, when I just posted, I did not realize there were other posts in this thread. I only saw the first page.

Regarding what JPM and LRDell are talking about, this used to drive me nuts. I would double and lo and behold the dealer would beat me over and over and over. I know how bad things can go sometimes. And I would try to talk myself out of suspecting something unfair. I just keep telling myself that I am paranoid and that a company like Microgaming, THE major player, must be fair and random.

I don't know. I just don't double anymore. It was too frustrating.

I hope Microgaming is on the square. I have enough other things to worry about. And I so love their software.

 

[GrandMaster]

One thing about the auto-play I noticed. Twice recently it auto-held a King but not the suited Ten with it. I happened to notice that and kept the Ten with it, which I think is the correct play. So although auto-hold is good, they may not have it programmed optimally. Anyone else notice this?

You can use Winpoker, or the video poker analyzer at www.gamblingtools.net or check out the Wizard's optimal strategy if you have doubts. There are some hands when it is marginally better to hold K only than a suited 10, K.