Verification documents

[davos11]

They are there guys , keep looking ...

I'll give you a clue , In one of the many chapters and paragraphs , there is a sentence where it says something along the lines of , "to check wagering contributions click here "

With there "here" part of that sentence in slight bold type i think , hardly even noticeable , its not in bigger font , or a different colour or even underlined , When you click it it brings up a list for every single slot and game they have on the site with each game having its own % contribution listed next to it ,


For instance i think the new girl with guns contributed 70% while i think the playboy slot contributed 90% , How do you explain that , But all netent games where 40-50% contribution ..

If you guys cant find it , then maybe it only becomes available through a page when you have already signed up ... But its there !
There was another thread on here this week about someone who also noticed this , on page 4 or 5 i think,

thanks

 

[spintee]

91% of the players are returning and play again.

How hard can it be?

lol not very hard when reading it right, I miss interpreted that 1, I thought it was strange low any 1 would think thats nearer the pay our rate at very best

 

[spintee]

slotobank.com/en/Casino/Info/bonus-contribution

40x b&d hell of a lot if playing some them small % slots

arhhhh spring break only 20% thats 200x d&b if playing just that game

 

[davos11]

Spintee wins it haha ,

Now aside from the fact those terms are crazy , Would you consider them hidden , You guys either couldn't find them at all or had to have multiple looks to try and find them

 

[spintee]

Spintee wins it haha ,

Now aside from the fact those terms are crazy , Would you consider them hidden , You guys either couldn't find them at all or had to have multiple looks to try and find them

I couldt find um i ask live help Pretty easy but if you click on the banner at main page when it shows bonus click more, I still wouldnt no unless ask

If I deposit 20 get 30 free = 50, x40 pt = 2,000 x that by 5 due 20 only count as 20% thats a £10000 py on £20 depo

 

[vinylweatherman]

The vast majority of Microgaming slots are 20% or even 10%. We also know most of these are 95%-96% RTP, pretty standard. This is just a trick to advertise a low(ish) looking WR whilst actually implementing a shocking 100x to 200x WR. I expect the 100% weighted slots are the crappy 90% RTP ones. We know that Spring Break is a clone of Thunderstruck, for which we have a pretty accurate RTP of 95% having been worked out some years ago by Zoozie et al and a slot simulator, yet it's 20% weighted at this casino.

I looked under the bonus section, and still couldn't find this table, it's almost as well hidden as the page that put Prime casino in the pit. They probably want people to just monitor the tracker, rather than realise the shockingly low weightings of many slots.

I can play Spring Break and those other MGS slots at 30x B WR and 100% weighting at almost every Viper download and MGS Flash site. The worst is 50x B, but still 100% weight.

There is far more to deter players from this casino than problems with documents.

Since this is Oddsmatrix, it's possible their other sites have, or will soon, sneak in similar low weightings for many slots.

 

[quber]

The first play N Go game on the list is Ninja Fruits and that has an RTP of 96.65% according to the rules yet it is contributing 100%.

I don't know what they are basing that % on at all.

 

[spintee]

The vast majority of Microgaming slots are 20% or even 10%. We also know most of these are 95%-96% RTP, pretty standard. This is just a trick to advertise a low(ish) looking WR whilst actually implementing a shocking 100x to 200x WR. I expect the 100% weighted slots are the crappy 90% RTP ones. We know that Spring Break is a clone of Thunderstruck, for which we have a pretty accurate RTP of 95% having been worked out some years ago by Zoozie et al and a slot simulator, yet it's 20% weighted at this casino.

I looked under the bonus section, and still couldn't find this table, it's almost as well hidden as the page that put Prime casino in the pit. They probably want people to just monitor the tracker, rather than realise the shockingly low weightings of many slots.

I can play Spring Break and those other MGS slots at 30x B WR and 100% weighting at almost every Viper download and MGS Flash site. The worst is 50x B, but still 100% weight.

There is far more to deter players from this casino than problems with documents.

Since this is Oddsmatrix, it's possible their other sites have, or will soon, sneak in similar low weightings for many slots.

Its terrible, 100 - 200x play threw, I remember a thread a good few weeks ago about this unsure if about mentioned site? Its well hidden, Easy when told but was like trying to find needle in hay stack b4 than, Are they aloud to do that? Im sure some games providers would have something to say or is it up to the site? I remember the other thread and people said its pretty much out there that some sites put net bent as not as much wager, But thunder struck / ladies night / spring break are my main machines

I just got off castle jp, Friday's 100% bonus only 25x play threw on bonus, That is more than fair, I no it can take a few days b4 they withdraw but normaly in bank next day after, There is a new comer to the ips aldernly site which is slotaway which yet they have to add to site? Unsure why not there yet but all of them got same rules, & withdraw from there last sunday and still sitting there thursday so ask help and they didnt no why but withdrew it there and than, With castle jp I deposit 15 and took 315 out and was in my bank withen 3 days, Other sites from ips seem to take a tad longer, slotboss I think was 4-5 in bank,
I really think if they can add some more games to there site and cash out is abit faster than theses sites are something to whach, Simple sites no nonsense business, Rules are there right in your face simple and clear, No paragraphs of rules like some,


Low and behold that withdraw yestoday I had to chase up and done there and than is now in my bank? less than 24hrs,

 

[spintee]

The first play N Go game on the list is Ninja Fruits and that has an RTP of 96.65% according to the rules yet it is contributing 100%.

I don't know what they are basing that % on at all.

No but if any 1 seem them rules ect than will have more sense than to deposit, You got to find rules 1st, I will bet they have not even got a withdraw department as its will be near impossible to wager that amount unless hit big time which Im still waiting for after yrs of play, Could be they looked at what games most played, Not a clue it just blows my mind thinking about it, Its hard enough to get threw a wager just on bonus let alone on d&b & at 40x than times that by 5 lol
I decent thing is help was there but not suprised I bet there deposit to withdraw ratio is 100 - 0

Small rollers like my self like a bonus, I nether ask for 1 or free chips when dwn, not 1 time in all my play time, If offerd a bonus than sure I will more and likely to take, But no way on a 40x d&b plus only 20% contribution on alot of slots, I bet theres a lot of people have took that out and deposist again and whats the bet that the next deposit will roll on with the playthrew (stick) OUCTH

 

[vinylweatherman]

The first play N Go game on the list is Ninja Fruits and that has an RTP of 96.65% according to the rules yet it is contributing 100%.

I don't know what they are basing that % on at all.

So, a 95.1% slot is on 20% weighting, whereas a 96.65% one counts 100%.

It makes no sense at all, and also exposes the casino to players who are better at maths than they are as there may be other inconsistencies that may actually create a slightly +EV situation for one of their 100% weighted slots. Since these terms are pretty well hidden, but the wager tracker is advertised as the means by which players can check their progress, they have added deniability too for the player who could withdraw when the tracker shows they can, yet pretend to the casino that they know nothing about slots or maths, and could not find anything on the site other than the convenient WR tracker, so they didn't care about multipliers and weighting, but just kept playing till the tracker said they could withdraw. Just don't be TOO obvious and play only the one best slot, or happen to have an uncanny ability to sense to the cent just when to check the tracker to see if it's OK to withdraw.

 

[davos11]

New update from a different casino .

Had the exact same problem just a few days later , This time some perhaps valid , some not , I currently do not have a valid up to date utility bill as the one i had photographed is now quite old ,And i'm not currently at home and wont be for perhaps another month , I said could provide this information next time around no problem , this was noted to my account ........ Or so i was told as no note had been noted haha !

The second problem they had was that my passport named me as david , And the name registered to my account was dave , so they rejected that .............. I mean come one ! , I was christened david but no one ,Not even family calls me david and i think its pretty damn obvious that this is the case .The first time i have ever had this problem in all the sites i have ever signed up with and withdrew from and every time i have registered as dave , not david .

They also rejected my card photos ( the same ones that i have used for this year and were eventually accepted by the former casino i was talking about in this thread ) , The card expires next month , its old and worn , The lettering and numbering was once bold and clear but is now dull but you can still make out the details you need to ,No amount of photographs can restore the card back to its new condition so there is nothing i can do until i get a new one next month ..

And to top it all off , In yet another delaying tactic that i'm sure you are all victims of yourself , The Ole' not bothering to get in touch with us to tell us there has been a problem with the docs so we either wait a week for the money to arrive only for that never to happen or we go on to see whats going on after a few days and find out for ourselves , Which i did !

So they said i cannot withdraw without a utility bill or proof of address so i managed to find a website that has a portion of my address from the electoral registry ,Not complete but it says my name , post code , town and city , just not house number and street name as it a premium site you have to pay to unlock other info ... , I'm just waiting for them to reject this to

This was a deposit from a few weeks back that i only just got through the playthrough on rather than another uncredited i just deposited at

Honestly i spend more time trying to claim the money i have won then trying to actually win money on casinos nowadays and with these 1000X playthroughs , That's saying something

I'm literally running out of barrels to be bent over !

 

[vinylweatherman]

New update from a different casino .

Had the exact same problem just a few days later , This time some perhaps valid , some not , I currently do not have a valid up to date utility bill as the one i had photographed is now quite old ,And i'm not currently at home and wont be for perhaps another month , I said could provide this information next time around no problem , this was noted to my account ........ Or so i was told as no note had been noted haha !

The second problem they had was that my passport named me as david , And the name registered to my account was dave , so they rejected that .............. I mean come one ! , I was christened david but no one ,Not even family calls me david and i think its pretty damn obvious that this is the case .The first time i have ever had this problem in all the sites i have ever signed up with and withdrew from and every time i have registered as dave , not david .

They also rejected my card photos ( the same ones that i have used for this year and were eventually accepted by the former casino i was talking about in this thread ) , The card expires next month , its old and worn , The lettering and numbering was once bold and clear but is now dull but you can still make out the details you need to ,No amount of photographs can restore the card back to its new condition so there is nothing i can do until i get a new one next month ..

And to top it all off , In yet another delaying tactic that i'm sure you are all victims of yourself , The Ole' not bothering to get in touch with us to tell us there has been a problem with the docs so we either wait a week for the money to arrive only for that never to happen or we go on to see whats going on after a few days and find out for ourselves , Which i did !

So they said i cannot withdraw without a utility bill or proof of address so i managed to find a website that has a portion of my address from the electoral registry ,Not complete but it says my name , post code , town and city , just not house number and street name as it a premium site you have to pay to unlock other info ... , I'm just waiting for them to reject this to

This was a deposit from a few weeks back that i only just got through the playthrough on rather than another uncredited i just deposited at

Honestly i spend more time trying to claim the money i have won then trying to actually win money on casinos nowadays and with these 1000X playthroughs , That's saying something

I'm literally running out of barrels to be bent over !

They will reject this as it's incomplete, and they can't verify the provenance of the information on it.

As you are away from home, you will both have to wait till you get back and process all the post. However, if you have someone looking after your house, get them to open your latest utility bill and email you a scan, or even put it in an envelope and forward it to where you are at present.

They shouldn't be rejecting a valid card just because it has reached the end of it's life and doesn't look new any longer, they should be suggesting ways to make the scan clearer so that they can read the numbers better. The monthly statement for this card could also help in showing that it's yours, but this is probably back at your home.

There is no point in playing off this money in frustration as you can't withdraw it if you get a bigger win. You can either lose it now, or wait a month and get together all the latest documentation when you get home. They can wait a month for your next deposit, and if other sites are not moaning, play there instead when you are away.

When you next go away, make sure to have something in place so that you can respond to these unexpected requests. If it's for quite a while, have someone check your post and forward documents that would replace anything that has gone over 3 months that you have with you.

Casinos seem very keen that their players can play when away from their desktop, but don't seem to understand that when you play on an away device, it's because you are not home, so they should not expect you to have access to anything that is normally at home.

If they can't handle this, they should be advising players NOT to play when away from home on extended business. It would be advisable in your position to NOT play at this particular casino, or any with similar procedures, if you are spending periods of a month or more away from home, and away from having access to your mail. There is no such thing as "one time only" when it comes to casinos asking for documents, even when they promise this in their terms. Even if you have had all your documents verified, you still can't be 100% sure that you won't be asked for more documents whilst stuck away from home, and thus faced with a long wait before you can pass their procedures.

 

[davos11]

Thanks for the advice Vinyl , I actually did have copies of my utility bill and other docs in my email outbox but accidentally deleted everything , the utility bill was heading for 6 months old anyway . so although had my address of 25 years on it was still not acceptable by casinos ,

The other small problem ,Or at least annoyance is by the time i can get home and get a utility bill my visa card will expire , So i wont be able to withdraw onto it via that casino anyway , And you know what casinos are like , I'm sure they will not allow me to withdraw onto my new card without making a deposit with it first

I understand there are rules and we have to stick to them but sometimes don't understand the motivation for rules ,

Like i said earlier ,If i play skyvegas , williamhill , betfred etc...... Any of these i don't need one shred of i.d

I could understand maybe photographic i.d , especially a passport , It proves who i am , where i'm from and my age ,And of course matches me to the bank account / visa card i have been using

But do they really need my home address and phone number ,I don't want to be rang or sent spam and i don't want my information shared with other casinos or sold to other casinos which we know happens , And why do they need them to keep being renewed every 3 or 4 months , I have proved my registered address once , that should be good enough ,I have confirmed who i am , I shouldn't have to keep updating them if i move or change my phone number etc..... , this has nothing to do with proving i am the person i say i am ..

In the past i have been rang in the middle of the night so i now just enter a random number sequence when asked for my phone number ,You can click a box to be taken off the mailing list but no boxes for house mail and phonecalls

All in all the whole situation is my own fault , I was tempted by promos and bonuses by unaccredited casinos and all though not rogue-ish they are extremely unprofessional , I have my own mistakes in this ,But the live help and chat are terrible , they often do not know what they are doing , Have bad manners and tend to get things wrong or just plain lie to get rid of you

I think from now on all my gambling will be straight up no bonus deposits and only on uk sites ,Williamhill have cashback offers so no need to worry about playthroughs there , and they have a good selection of WMS games aswell as Playtech and my favourite Microgaming slots plus a few more and i know some of the other uk based casinos have Netent to , So all in all they cover pretty much all games and this eliminates both the need for i.d or utility bills ever again , Same day or next day withdrawals ,Paypal deposit options , English speaking ( and thinking ) live help ,Deposits from as little as £5 /£10 ,

Honestly the more i think about it , The more stupid i see i have been in losing all the above features not to mention all the added stress just to get a £25 bonus with huge wagering ,Which i only really take for a bit of extended entertainment

I think over the coming weeks i will just close my existing accounts with other sites and ask to be taken off the mailing list to avoid being lured in by those 200% bonuses ,It'll be interesting to see how my luck will change based on no bonus play compared to years of bonus taking ,Hopefuly i will have some good screenshots for you

Thanks for all your help

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for the advice Vinyl , I actually did have copies of my utility bill and other docs in my email outbox but accidentally deleted everything , the utility bill was heading for 6 months old anyway . so although had my address of 25 years on it was still not acceptable by casinos ,

The other small problem ,Or at least annoyance is by the time i can get home and get a utility bill my visa card will expire , So i wont be able to withdraw onto it via that casino anyway , And you know what casinos are like , I'm sure they will not allow me to withdraw onto my new card without making a deposit with it first

I understand there are rules and we have to stick to them but sometimes don't understand the motivation for rules ,

Like i said earlier ,If i play skyvegas , williamhill , betfred etc...... Any of these i don't need one shred of i.d

I could understand maybe photographic i.d , especially a passport , It proves who i am , where i'm from and my age ,And of course matches me to the bank account / visa card i have been using

But do they really need my home address and phone number ,I don't want to be rang or sent spam and i don't want my information shared with other casinos or sold to other casinos which we know happens , And why do they need them to keep being renewed every 3 or 4 months , I have proved my registered address once , that should be good enough ,I have confirmed who i am , I shouldn't have to keep updating them if i move or change my phone number etc..... , this has nothing to do with proving i am the person i say i am ..

In the past i have been rang in the middle of the night so i now just enter a random number sequence when asked for my phone number ,You can click a box to be taken off the mailing list but no boxes for house mail and phonecalls

All in all the whole situation is my own fault , I was tempted by promos and bonuses by unaccredited casinos and all though not rogue-ish they are extremely unprofessional , I have my own mistakes in this ,But the live help and chat are terrible , they often do not know what they are doing , Have bad manners and tend to get things wrong or just plain lie to get rid of you

I think from now on all my gambling will be straight up no bonus deposits and only on uk sites ,Williamhill have cashback offers so no need to worry about playthroughs there , and they have a good selection of WMS games aswell as Playtech and my favourite Microgaming slots plus a few more and i know some of the other uk based casinos have Netent to , So all in all they cover pretty much all games and this eliminates both the need for i.d or utility bills ever again , Same day or next day withdrawals ,Paypal deposit options , English speaking ( and thinking ) live help ,Deposits from as little as £5 /£10 ,

Honestly the more i think about it , The more stupid i see i have been in losing all the above features not to mention all the added stress just to get a £25 bonus with huge wagering ,Which i only really take for a bit of extended entertainment

I think over the coming weeks i will just close my existing accounts with other sites and ask to be taken off the mailing list to avoid being lured in by those 200% bonuses ,It'll be interesting to see how my luck will change based on no bonus play compared to years of bonus taking ,Hopefuly i will have some good screenshots for you

Thanks for all your help

This can get you into a lot of trouble. If a casino gets suspicious of you and decided to phone for a security check, and finds out the number is fake, their suspicions will only increase further. It would be better to give the correct number, but then set your phone to block numbers from outside the area, or that you don't know. If a casino then complains they couldn't call you, they can't claim it's a fake number. You can just say that your system is designed to block marketing and other unwanted calls, and that in order for their call to get through, they must be whitelisted in your system first. A lot of people will check the display before picking up the phone, and if it's not a number they recognise, will not pick up.

They shouldn't keep asking for updates all the time, but they will expect updates of anything that has changed, such as your address. It's part of the system for checking that your account has not been compromised and used by somebody else, whilst it's your details that lend authenticity to the transactions.

If they end up paying back to an expired card, the bank should be able to divert the transaction to the new one. It's not just casinos that cause this problem, refunds from merchants for faulty goods can also take place after the card that was used to buy them has expired. New cards are usually issued for the same underlying account. The main time this can cause problems is when you change card issuer, in which case you will have to contact the old issuer to retrieve any money that has been sent to the card.

Casinos have occasionally done this to me in the past. Retrieving the money has not been too hard. Barclaycard was the easiest. It was the same account and card, but they had changed policy regarding gambling transactions meaning that my large withdrawal could no longer just be deposited back from there. I just had them send it to my bank account, from where I moved it to Neteller which is where I had wanted it.

Deleting everything is an unfortunate accident, but that can't be blamed on the casino. It would be better to have the documents ready prepared in a separate folder so that when the call comes, you can simply attach them to an email back. The document store will have to be kept up to date so that nothing is too old, even if that means preparing documents that are never called upon (which is what I have been doing for a while now).

 

[davos11]

I fully understand what your saying in regards to them phoning but i mean surely they have your passport copy , utility bill and copies of card they cant exactly withhold money or close an account just for not having a correct phone number and if they do its surely because they are actually intending to find a way to take that money and therefor are a roguiesh outfit ,

I always just say ahh that was my old number , i have a new one now , if it comes to that

P.S "They will reject this as it's incomplete, and they can't verify the provenance of the information on it"

Believe me i was totally with you on this and didn't hold much hope but i received an email today saying the site i found containing my address and indeed my other docs had been accepted and withdrawal was now underway

Which again makes you question the whole set up , If i was a scammer / fraudster i could have found that easily , it was the first result on google when searching my name haha

I just cant understand why one site needs docs and another doesn't , Unless there not needed at all , And if they are needed then this should be part of registration not on withdrawal only !

It shouldn't be case that if you have stolen a credit card you can happily lose someone else's money without the casino having a care in the world but if you want to make a withdrawal its a different story .

The way it is set up provides only security for the casino and not the player

Now just imagine how quickly your docs would be verified if it was set up before you got to make a deposit , within 5 minutes over live chat so they can get you playing and depositing right away , But when it comes to withdrawing ,Anywhere from between 2-7 days and it just so happens during that time your money is available for reversal

Like i always say rules are rules and if you sign up its your own fault but as guy who tends to just play for a bit of fun , The fun gets sucked out with these guys constantly trying to get one over or pulling the wool over are eyes ,

 

[vinylweatherman]

I fully understand what your saying in regards to them phoning but i mean surely they have your passport copy , utility bill and copies of card they cant exactly withhold money or close an account just for not having a correct phone number and if they do its surely because they are actually intending to find a way to take that money and therefor are a roguiesh outfit ,

I always just say ahh that was my old number , i have a new one now , if it comes to that

P.S "They will reject this as it's incomplete, and they can't verify the provenance of the information on it"

Believe me i was totally with you on this and didn't hold much hope but i received an email today saying the site i found containing my address and indeed my other docs had been accepted and withdrawal was now underway

Which again makes you question the whole set up , If i was a scammer / fraudster i could have found that easily , it was the first result on google when searching my name haha

I just cant understand why one site needs docs and another doesn't , Unless there not needed at all , And if they are needed then this should be part of registration not on withdrawal only !

It shouldn't be case that if you have stolen a credit card you can happily lose someone else's money without the casino having a care in the world but if you want to make a withdrawal its a different story .

The way it is set up provides only security for the casino and not the player

Now just imagine how quickly your docs would be verified if it was set up before you got to make a deposit , within 5 minutes over live chat so they can get you playing and depositing right away , But when it comes to withdrawing ,Anywhere from between 2-7 days and it just so happens during that time your money is available for reversal

Like i always say rules are rules and if you sign up its your own fault but as guy who tends to just play for a bit of fun , The fun gets sucked out with these guys constantly trying to get one over or pulling the wool over are eyes ,

This, of course, is largely true. Security for the player is merely a by product of the system providing security for the casino. Deposits from stolen cards can get put through fairly easily because the main thrust of the security measures is to prevent this money then being laundered through the casino and then withdrawn in "clean" form. If they catch the fraud before withdrawal, they have the money frozen for when the rightful owner comes asking for it's return. If they let the money slip through the net, they end up paying twice, once by having to refund the money to the rightful owner, and again because they can't retrieve it from the fraudster.

The argument has always been that verifying players up front can deter them from playing, or going elsewhere to play. It's all about not letting a potential customer slip away to the opposition rather than making sure that their casino will protect people who have had their cards stolen by criminal networks.

To make matters worse, if a victim discovers that their card has been stolen and manages to pursue a refund through their bank, they can sometimes be blacklisted as a "charge backer" by the casino simply because they went through the usual channels, rather than approaching the casino directly for a refund.

I have noticed that the vast majority of casinos ignore the extra procedures put in place by banks to keep customers safe online. The "verified by VISA" and "SecureCode" schemes prevent anyone from making online use of a stolen card, or skimmed card details, because it uses an extra password that is created independently by the customer, and is not retrievable from stolen cards, skimmed cards, or even stolen databases. Most casinos just use the 3 digit code to authenticate deposits, which is easy to find on a stolen card, and can often be retrieved from skimmed cards and stolen databases.

The argument for not putting in any fake details, even irrelevant ones, is that if one minor fake detail is discovered, it has the casino questioning what else has been faked, but just not found out.

It is better to give a genuine number, but then find a way to control which calls get through and which get blocked. Anonymous caller reject and International call reject will block the vast majority of casinos from calling. Phone networks have been rather lazy about implementing better methods for users to control all the unwanted calls, and this has lead to third party devices, as well as complaints from business that it has resulted in "over blocking" of legitimate calls in an effort to spread the net wide enough to cope with the scammers and cold callers. There is a law against making unwanted calls, but it is freely ignored by call centres, and consequences are not something that puts them off because they can exploit the protocols in telecoms to hide their true location and identity.

Members here will name and shame casinos that misuse the number given "for security purposes" during registration. It's a strong and pretty effective deterrent for the best casinos not to lose control of their marketing teams or let members contact details escape into the wild.