Usyk vs Joshua 2

[Nate]

Bets are on - Who will win and why do you think so?

Going to be a cracker?

Nate

 

[Jono777]

Not really into Boxing mate, however my 13 yr old daughter has used tonight's fight as an excuse to stay at her mates house late.

I am way too soft, anything for an easier life eh?

 

[goatwack]

Usyk. He's better.

UD, so-so fight

 

[Nate]

Usyk. He's better.

UD, so-so fight

Don't be boring Goatee...

I know you love Tyson Fury and his swagger...

I don't ask you for much... - FFS just show some enthusiasm

 

[aceking123]

Old josh if he's changing the way he fights, funny enough I was wondering where you had been nate....

 

[greylady]

I am going for Usyk too!

He just outperforms Joshua, Usyk has the skill and speed whilst Joshua uses his height hmn, stand by Usyk winning.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Yes, Usyk for the win, AJ ain't what he used to be and Usyk is a different class.

Of course, I will be rooting for AJ but money would be on Usyk.

 

[kennygamerboy]

i want joshua cos i wanna see him and fury fury’s said he will fight the winner

 

[dunover]

OK boxing fans, maybe I've got this wrong but why the fuck does the sport talk up losers so frequently? Along the lines of "Joshua is attempting to become 3-time world champion..blah...spiel...bollocks..."

Like saying Ali was '5-time world champion'. So Marciano, 49-0-0 was merely a 'one-time world champion'?

Now I understand relinquishing titles for non-boxing reasons like Fury did once, or Ali once did.

But if you've been battered a few times and eventually win a title back, does that somehow carry more kudos than losing it in the first place?

Or does this illogical BS talk come from promoters and press sycophants trying to big up their supported fighter?

Perhaps Vladimir Klitschko who was champion for an 11-year stretch should've lost a couple of fights in the middle?

 

[goatwack]

OK boxing fans, maybe I've got this wrong but why the fuck does the sport talk up losers so frequently? Along the lines of "Joshua is attempting to become 3-time world champion..blah...spiel...bollocks..."

Like saying Ali was '5-time world champion'. So Marciano, 49-0-0 was merely a 'one-time world champion'?

Now I understand relinquishing titles for non-boxing reasons like Fury did once, or Ali once did.

But if you've been battered a few times and eventually win a title back, does that somehow carry more kudos than losing it in the first place?

Or does this illogical BS talk come from promoters and press sycophants trying to big up their supported fighter?

Perhaps Vladimir Klitschko who was champion for an 11-year stretch should've lost a couple of fights in the middle?

Not too sure, but I'd imagine each 'variant' of a weight class will have its own belt, so each time one's added to the collection it counts as being crowned champion, i.e WBC, WBO etc

Perhaps also defences of a title count towards it, so thrashing opponents about that try to take your 'crown' tallies up the total. So defending your title e.g 11 times makes you 11-time world champion as it were?

But you're correct, in that attaining any sort of championship is heralded as the second coming of Frazier, when in reality the Heavyweight division's fairly mediocre these days (though slightly better in the last couple of years). I'd also imagine promoters going into overdrive to bill these as the greatest things since Moses parted the Red Sea, whereas years prior the boxing sort of did the talking.

Even if Joshua were to win, it'd be a hollow victory, as it sets a pattern of getting whupped first before winning the rematch, and it'd be the 2nd time he'd have taken that route. Surely the hallmark of a great champ would be to get the job done first time through whatever adversity, not keep pushing the reset button and hoping no one noticed his first loss

 

[Nate]

Old josh if he's changing the way he fights, funny enough I was wondering where you had been nate....

I am around.. lurking in the shadows...

In all fairness, I do not come on as much as I used to.

 

[dunover]

Not too sure, but I'd imagine each 'variant' of a weight class will have its own belt, so each time one's added to the collection it counts as being crowned champion, i.e WBC, WBO etc

Perhaps also defences of a title count towards it, so thrashing opponents about that try to take your 'crown' tallies up the total. So defending your title e.g 11 times makes you 11-time world champion as it were?

But you're correct, in that attaining any sort of championship is heralded as the second coming of Frazier, when in reality the Heavyweight division's fairly mediocre these days (though slightly better in the last couple of years). I'd also imagine promoters going into overdrive to bill these as the greatest things since Moses parted the Red Sea, whereas years prior the boxing sort of did the talking.

Even if Joshua were to win, it'd be a hollow victory, as it sets a pattern of getting whupped first before winning the rematch, and it'd be the 2nd time he'd have taken that route. Surely the hallmark of a great champ would be to get the job done first time through whatever adversity, not keep pushing the reset button and hoping no one noticed his first loss

No, title defences don't count, nor do variants as if you hold one you are considered a world champion and that remains the same if you win another variant and you become a 'unified' WC and if you win the world title at different weights you're classed as a '2-weight world champion' not a two-time world champion. The term seems to specifically refer to those like AJ who lost it and won the same ones back again. Or Ali. Who lost 4 and regained it (in the ring) 4 times.

In fact, that could be it as despite having an overall mediocre record as far as winning and holding on to the titles (far worse than say Marciano, Klitschko etc.) Ali was a media darling being the right religion, race, anti-Vietnam and great showman etc. so the term seems to have been coined around the time he was active. Trouble is, in Ali's case it was a backhanded compliment and seems to be misused nowadays for any media favourite who gets battered and requires sympathy.

Spoken in the same tone as the stupid BBC athletics commentators who piss their pants when runner x fails to make the first two in a heat to qualify for the next round or the final and they trill into their microphones in a state of deluded excitement "But let's SEE! That time may qualify them as a fastest loser.." which of course means they're way behind the other people in the next race and are just making up the numbers with no hope.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Too many promoters and not enough Heavyweight talent for me.

As much as Tyson Fury must be an awkward beast of a man to fight, I wouldn't put him in with the greats.

Most of the fights everyone wants to see aren't being made. A certain amount of talent is protected by promoters, who push for unblemished records for a big payday and that stifles the talent in the process.

Some exceptions but too much intervention from promoters and too many hurdles in the way of decent fights.

 

[aceking123]

Wasn't a bad fight, I would of thought a draw, there wasn't alot in it, I had it down as even, best rounds 9 & 10, they both looked tired after that though just alot of swinging. Although josh was more knackered

 

[goatwack]

So, Joshua loses on points before proceeding to have some on-air breakdown

Well gee whizz, ain't that just a shocker. Predictably out-hussled, with a terrible attitude in defeat- the reason he'll never be anyone's champion, but just another overhyped also-ran

 

[bamberfishcake]

After putting in a decent performance that looked a whisker away from triumph, Joshua really let himself down in the end.

Not sure if he was under the impression that we should feel sorry for him. A small part of me was hoping he didn't come back into the ring and got banged up under some weird law for insulting the Saudi royals.

Must be hard training every day in world-class facilities with world-class coaches, eating the best food for your body and having the world at your feet as an instantly recognisable superstar - poor AJ. Didn't get to see what Usyk had to say, Joshua's breakdown was enough to make me switch off.

Shame, because I thought he did quite well. Got himself in some positions to throw some killer combos, but the killer combos seemed to be what was missing. I think I only saw him throw 3 or 4 punch combos a handful of times. Would like to have seen him more Tysonesque when the opportunity presented itself.

Not a bad fight though. Just a shame about the end of it all.

 

[Davey86]

If joshua had spent more time training and not plugging everything from lucozade to subway

 

[greylady]

Joshua came across as an almost broken man, both physically and mentally drained but the 'tantrum' was far from becoming of him! If only he had bowed out with grace people might have thought more of him.

 

[pinnit2014]

He can seek solace in the fact Graham Norton will be back soon and can see if he can break his punch bag record

 

[goatwack]

I think by his own admission, Joshua had trained hard for this fight, as mentioned in the post-fight press conference. What he clearly hadn't done is exorcise the demons of the first fight by getting his head straight.

Because as shown in the moments after the decision had been announced, it all sort of came out in an outpouring of bemusement and frustration.

What his team ought to have done - in hindsight of course - is let the man deal with his hang-ups post- Usyk/Joshua 1 and let him gather some perspective and clarity of mind. Instead, it seems they put him straight through his paces and whipped him into a state of frenzy, hyping him up to believe he is better than his obvious limitations allowed.

Made all the more apparent at the double, triple, quadruple breakdowns seen after the fight, where the man was still unsure as to why the thing he'd been assured of being his wasn't attained after all.

In the post-fight speech, you could see Joshua genuinely perplexed as to why he wasn't the victor, before putting his head in his hands and fighting back tears in front of millions. A 'normal' reaction one would expect from a loss, or a man whose confidence had been broken by not only a fearsome opponent, but by his own team?...

Out came the Eddie Hearn monologue about the trials and tribulations endured by Joshua, you could sense almost apologetically for the part he and others played in overworking their fighter, I think at that point they 'knew' something wasn't right.

As for the fight itself, it was a better Joshua display, when compared to the reactionary tactics of the first, but styles make fights, and ultimately, Joshua threw in excess of 600 punches to Usyk's 200+, and still managed to land fewer. It would take a stretch of the imagination to believe Joshua was ever at any point leading the scorecard, as he was realistically always trailing, bar a flurry in the 9th which had Usyk staggered, and yet that killer instinct eluded him when it mattered most.

That's all the cues Usyk needed to come out swinging in the 10th onwards and cement the bout, an opportunity spurned, make no mistake, with the better and more deserving fighter on the night emerging victorious. And the less we talk about the judge who, inexplicably, scored a 116-113 Joshua victory the better, as it would have (rightly) been a Unanimous Decision otherwise. It's that kind of judging that's riddled the sport for decades, and this further highlighted the corruption at the centre of it.

Hard to see where Joshua goes from here, whether he gets 'built up' to fight another day, or whether he's lost that certain something that cannot be replaced, much like Wilder before him. But chances are, he'll get paraded around like a prize fighter, beat a few journeymen and before you know it, the comeback trail begins anew, as does the media hype.

Whatever happens, no one can say he didn't have a good run

 

[dunover]

I have just watched that pathetic AJ behaviour after the fight, unedifying and churlish to say the least. I also heard what AJ was saying to Usyk, to paraphrase "How did you win, you're not strong, I had heart blah blah.." to the smiling bemusement of Usyk. Answer: He's better than you, a far better boxer and tactician, far more efficient in his punches therefore tires less and wins every time despite being nearly 2 stone lighter. Look at Usyk, hardly marked, and look at AJ covered in minor nicks and bruises and there's the answer. Like Joe Calzaghe Usyk is never going to be a knockout-style fighter but he's a brilliant boxer.