Unauthorised Withdrawal from My Neteller Account

[spearmaster]

While I can't argue that point, Havilton, I certainly can point to a mismatch in Neteller account details and casino signup details. That too would raise a red flag for any operator, sportsbook or casino or poker.

 

[scoooooot]

i can't help but wondering if this is the same "haviton" who has admitted to advertising his "services" on betfair and other forums...a kind of service where he visits the houses of interested people, does casino sign-up bonuses under their names and then splits the profits...?

i wouldn't dream of accusing the "haviton" on this forum as been the "haviton" that i know about but that's one heck of a coincidence...

 

[Haviton]

Hi, Izzy, Julio, Ivan

How are you

 

[scoooooot]

i'm none of those, sorry, but from the forums that i frequent i know the poster in question you are referring to...it's interesting that "Izzy, Julio, Ivan" is a well-known character on the betfair forum...

so can you confirm that you are the same "haviton"...?

if this is true then it the "it was only my brother-in-law" story seems slightly dubious...

 

[blankley]

How many more bitter rpointers are going to be recruited to post here?

This is an example of someone replying at 'another forum' to scoooots work -

'Scoooot from experience your posts normally are an attempt to antagonise people. Hence I will not respond to your points. '

- these posts here are up to your normal standards, well done.

 

[scoooooot]

thanks for the support, blankley - however, i think you'll find that it's not my integrity in question...

i am purely trying to ascertain if the haviton posting his query here is the same haviton who has been advertising his fraudulant services on betfair, and admitting these actions at rpoints...of course, as i said earlier, it could be one big coincidence...and an even bigger coincidence that they share the same username and avatar on both here and rpoints...

committing fraud is one thing...but then committing fraud and then squealing to casinomeister to get some assistance when you get your fingers burnt pretty much sucks - it gives players a bad name and gives casinos even more reason to be suspicious and more willing to screw over truely innocent punters...not to mention wasting the time of people here who are trying to stick up for the OP...

 

[scrollock]

How many more bitter rpointers are going to be recruited to post here?

This is an example of someone replying at 'another forum' to scoooots work -

'Scoooot from experience your posts normally are an attempt to antagonise people. Hence I will not respond to your points. '

- these posts here are up to your normal standards, well done.

agree 100%, there is obviously a hidden agenda by the guys from rpoints, one who has taken the effort to sign upto CM today just so he could specifically post on this thread only, maybe we are inadvertently fulfilling it by mentioning the sites name?

 

[scoooooot]

no hidden agenda from me, i specifically didn't originally mention the site you refer to...and i'm honest enough to sign-up to here and post with the handle which i use on a number of forums without feeling the need to hide behind an alias...i've been a frequent lurker on these forums, but nothing made me specifically register and post until this thread popped along...

my agenda...? i think it's pretty low for someone to defraud establishments full-stop...and even worse to defraud establishments and then complain to casinomeister and to question the integrity of a casino...and if a defrauder is foolish enough to publically identify themselves and the casino in question then more fool them...

anyway, back to topic, i spoke to Kobis at trident lounge yesterday and advised him of my suspicions...i explained that these were not facts by any stretch of the imagination, but the similarity of the haviton name and avatar on this site and that on other sites is highly questionable...Kobis seemed to be more than aware of what i had to say - whether this was from a tip-off or investigation into his accounts, i do not know...

of course, this coincidence i am referring to could purely be an innocent misunderstanding - perhaps haviton can confirm or deny that he's the same haviton (same handle, same avatar) as the one who has been advocating fraudulant practices on other forums...? perhaps the sheffield wednesday supporting haviton on this site has been mixed up with another sheffield wednesday supporter called haviton who has admitted to casino bonus abuse...

 

[caruso]

Thanks for the info, Scoot. This is obviously important to know and you're right to inform the community.

One can assume from Haviton's cryptic response that the allegation is correct.

Funding others' accounts for your own Neteller account is in violation of Neteller's own terms, and I'll assume it's also a violation of the casino's. Maybe the casino was considering a good-faith payment of kinds in the face of the entertaining story of the window fitting job, but considering the bare-faced lie it turned out to be I'm sure no money will be finding its way into our friend's pocket on this occasion.

Good story about the bro in law, though - I nearly fell for it.

 

[charliewilliams]

'my agenda...? i think it's pretty low for someone to defraud establishments full-stop'

Scoot is

a) a fearless campaigner for truth and justice, honesty and decency.

b) a bonus abuser with a grudge.

well my guess would be the latter.

'I was only in the brothel, your honour, to observe the wickedness of my fellow man and to save these poor fallen angels.'

'Why were my trousers round my ankles, sir, well my belt gave way just as the officers came in'.

'And I was not kissing that lady, Sir, I merely fell over my trousers which were around my ankles at the time, saw my head was about to hit the wall and put out my tongue to break my fall, just as the young lady was passing'.

And as for the idea of someone called Scooooooooooooooot not hiding behind an alias. Oy veh.

ps its F-R-A-U-D-U-L-E-N-T by the way.

cw

 

[charliewilliams]

the real issue here notwithstanding posters with 'issues' is - is Neteller a public listed company on the London Stock Exchange with all the legal and moral responsibilities that entails? Or a shill for the casino industry with all that that entails for Neteller shareholders and customers alike.

 

[scoooooot]

'my agenda...? i think it's pretty low for someone to defraud establishments full-stop'

Scoot is

a) a fearless campaigner for truth and justice, honesty and decency.

b) a bonus abuser with a grudge.

well my guess would be the latter.

well you can guess for all you're worth...i'm merely putting forward the details i know about a self-admitting, and boasting, fraudster called haviton and questioning whether or not it is the same person as the OP...unfortunately things seem to have gone a little quiet on planet haviton at the moment...

if you're happy with the thought of someone who has fraudently made money from casinos on a mass scale making such a complaint, then you are more than welcome to share that view...if you think that benefits the average player and the industry as a whole then you are incredibly short-sighted...

 

[charliewilliams]

ah fess up, ahhm incredblee shawt saahhted

 

[slotchik]

Thats funny because I just had a similar thing happen.
I just won and the casino matched EMAIL addresses and NOT names to send the money.
I've been depositing with my neteller all along but my email address with the casino is my sister's because HOTMAIL ( my neteller addy ) was blocking the casino's mail as did my AOL account. In order to get promos, I read the email through her email account which is really a junk email of hers. She used THAT Email to sign up her neteller account. When she signed up, the immediately closed it because we lived together and the address matched mine. She just threw in the towel and said..forget this, I dont need the account that bad.
The casino PAID her neteller because the email addresses matched, NOT THE NAMES!!! Neteller told me that I had to get my sister to call in and transfer the money and that the casino did the right thing!!! I understand the emails matched, but the NAMES DID NOT......so this really upsets me. I now have my neteller and casino account matching but will probably not get most of the casino mail .....It's ridiculous!!! And it's a lot of money...too.

I inquired with Neteller regarding this thread.
This is what was emailed to me with the authority to make this post....

NETeller has set up a rule with it's merchants that an account holders name must match on both sides in order to allow a cash out or deposit to and or from a merchant to NETeller / NETeller to merchant. The transaction was sent from this merchant to what seemed to be another NETeller account (the player described the situation later like this: he had set up a player account(casino side)with his friends name and a NETeller account with his own name) and when the casino in question saw the error in the user's names not matching, the transaction was reversed. This casino went out of it's way to reverse what looked to be a fraudulent withdrawal to someone else's NETeller account (as the names didn't match on both sides) This is all just a big miscommunication and the casino and NETeller were trying to protect a player against a potential fraudulent withdrawal.

NETeller is currently working with the client and the merchant to correct this issue. The funds are still available to the client. He breached the merchant's and NETellers security rules and this is why there is a problem.

 

[Vesuvio]

Maybe the casino was considering a good-faith payment of kinds in the face of the entertaining story of the window fitting job, but considering the bare-faced lie it turned out to be I'm sure no money will be finding its way into our friend's pocket on this occasion.

Good story about the bro in law, though - I nearly fell for it.

Caruso, I'm sure Haviton's no angel - you don't get many of them hanging around the casino industry - but where in this thread has his story been shown to be a "bare-faced lie"? As far as I can see from the posts (and not some general clairvoyance) it's not even in dispute.

There is a real issue here with the relationship between Neteller and on-line casinos - and what looks like a blatant disregard for the usual lines of demarcation you'd expect between a financial institution and the merchants that use it.

I think charliewilliams said all that needs to be said about Scooooooot nobly taking his doubts about Haviton to the casino in question. It sets a new watermark for hypocrisy and bad faith among prominent members of a forum dedicated to the fine cause of bonus whoring.

 

[jetset]

It would seem more than plain coincidence that Haviton's name and avatar should be the same for two different posters on different message boards, so I guess Scoot's allegations come down to who you believe.

If you assume that Haviton is telling the truth then this was just an unfortunate mishap involving his brother in law and a case of unmatching ID on which either the casino or Neteller or both acted in the interests of protecting the real player's funds. And if Haviton and his brother in law have convinced the authorities that this was the case then there should be no hassles with payment.

On the other hand, Scoot's post makes a serious accusation that Haviton is not all he would like us to believe he is. And certainly if he is this type of bonus wheeler-dealer then he has some cheek with it in creating a public fuss.

We will all have our own opinions on this, as always. Mine is that Scoot is telling the truth about this guy, but I'm the first to accept that we have yet to see corroborative information here as other new personas climb in to attack Scoot. Perhaps some links to the posts where Haviton is alleged to have done his *advertising* would settle the matter.

 

[jetset]

PS: It would also be interesting to see Haviton deny publicly that he is the same person as Scoot claims he is, and that he is not a systematic bonus defrauder who advertises for accomplices, but an innocent player caught up in ID security measures.

 

[caruso]

The poster's response to the allegation - apparently some dark attempt at revealing another handle of the poster furnishing us with the information about these activities - seems to confirm their accuracy. If they were incorrect, he'd simply say, WTF are you talking about?

I would bet an awful lot of money the claim is correct.

That said, the actual ACTIVITY itself isn't illegal, as long as all accounts match. It doesn't matter that it's fifty different people playing, or the same person playing on fifty different genuine accounts with the account-holders' authorization. It could be regarded as immoral and a bit pathetic, but not contravening any laws.

What WAS contravened was the accounts-matching requirement - an account was funded from somebody else's Neteller. Maybe the casino was considering a good-faith payment based on the line of BS he fed them about brother in laws; now, in these new circumstances, I'm certain the casino will do what was always the correct thing, and confiscate the winnings. Either way, withholding payment was always the correct thing to do.

Regarding the NT issue: I agree it could well be done without, but it's not a huge issue to me, because I don't break any rules. I'm confident that any NT issue I have will be resolved in my favour - my only one to date was. If I DID cheat, then I would be concerned about this issue. But then, it'd be my fault, and I would deserve all I got - as "Haviton" is currently finding out for himself.

 

[GrandMaster]

That said, the actual ACTIVITY itself isn't illegal, as long as all accounts match. It doesn't matter that it's fifty different people playing, or the same person playing on fifty different genuine accounts with the account-holders' authorization. It could be regarded as immoral and a bit pathetic, but not contravening any laws.

Many casinos' terms include that you must not let anyone else to play on your account, but this is normally impossible to prove and enforce.

My questions about Neteller's security protocols still have not been answered. Do casinos store secure ID's normally? Does Neteller care about this? Under what conditions can casinos reverse payments?

 

[scoooooot]

The poster's response to the allegation - apparently some dark attempt at revealing another handle of the poster furnishing us with the information about these activities - seems to confirm their accuracy. If they were incorrect, he'd simply say, WTF are you talking about?

just to clarify, i'm not the poster referred to in haviton's cryptic response...

"Julio" and "mr_ivan" are handles used by the same person at a certain UK forum - i won't mention this forum again to prevent people thinking i have a "hidden agenda"...

"Izzy" is that person's handle at the betfair forum...

the fact that the "haviton" posting here is aware of the two forums i mentioned adds just a bit of weight to my point of view, although this could be one almighty coincidence...perhaps haviton can advise whether my suspicions are way off the mark...?

 

[caruso]

Many casinos' terms include that you must not let anyone else to play on your account, but this is normally impossible to prove and enforce.

Not something I'm familiar with, but I just checked Trident - and they do in fact have this clause.

So I withdraw all my remarks about the "legality" of this behaviour.

 

[spearmaster]

Now *I'm* getting irritated.

My account has been "closed due to certain circumstances". This despite the fact that I have one of the oldest Neteller accounts in existence, plus the fact that they have verified all my details in the past, plus the fact that I have met with Neteller execs in the past.

I sent an email telling them they better have a DAMN GOOD explanation.

It is *possible* that I have used another email address, and this could be the cause - but I'll wait to hear from them as to what has caused this turn of events.

 

[Lestec]

I occasionally get this when I log on its usually their IP identifier incorrectly idetifying you from a different country, a simple phone call usually sorts it out

 

[spearmaster]

While I can understand that, it IS entirely possible for people to be travelling when they log into their Neteller account, just as they can log into their bank account. Keep in mind that all the passwords and security numbers are correct as well.

Having said that, I am logging in from the same computer which accounts for about 99.5% of my logins to Neteller, and it is still in the same place as it always has been, so I doubt that's the issue unless they have implemented some sort of new security regulation which now cause me to be in breach of something or other.

I should also add that, because of a transactional hiccup, a payment which was made to me was reversed shortly thereafter, and rightfully so because the payment method had recently been changed to something else. It's possible that this reversal could also be the cause of my locking-out even though it is perfectly legitimate, and I certainly didn't do anything to cause this reversal error either.

edit -> I see what you're saying now, that their IP database may not be up to date and thus incorrectly identifies me as coming from a different country. This is a possibility but still doesn't address the fact that people do travel from time to time

 

[scoooooot]

edit -> I see what you're saying now, that their IP database may not be up to date and thus incorrectly identifies me as coming from a different country. This is a possibility but still doesn't address the fact that people do travel from time to time

neteller do swiftly block your account if you login from an IP address which they don't like...once mine was blocked when i tried to access from work which turned out to have an originating IP from the USA...but all it takes is a phone call to clarify that you're actually the person trying to access the account...

if you travel and want access to your account, you need to speak to them directly beforehand, an email isn't sufficient...sure it's a pain, but i'm a lot more comfortable with this that them not having these procedures in place...

 

[Lestec]

Thats what I do if I leave the country, give them a bell and they take the IP lock off, when ya get back give them a bell and they put it back on.

However I have had a couple of "your account is closed" issues and its always been an IP issue (them being wrong)

They have assured me and I have had this happen, if your account is "closed" payments in do go in, however I cant speak for all other possibilities

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[spearmaster]

They know I travel. They know me personally, for that matter... LOL...

Anyhow, the block was lifted - with no explanation. Not very professional in my opinion. I shall see to it that their management is asked WTF that was all about.

 

[maxlevine]

A good part of the thread was about Neteller lack of security or questionable transactions. I'm happy to see they were zealous with someone they even know personally.

When I opened my account, I made sure they were going to give me a call if there was any doubt. Of course, I never leave money anywhere so it could be a useless precaution.

Max

 

[The Dude]

At this time, to ensure I receive unbiased comments, I will not nake the casino but this happened to me over the week.

At the weekend, I opened a casino account. Deposited via Neteller and received my bonus.

I withdrew a profit of 800. 3 days later, they paid me 200 (Dep) and 800.

The next day, and this is my gripe, they, without my consent, withdrew the 800 back from my neteller account. I was away until the weekend and had no email or anything from them. I wrote to them and they said that the payment was cancelled, please note the word CANCELLED.

I then phoned Neteller Security and spoke with them. They said it was not cancelled but was a Authorised Withdrawal that had come through with my Secure ID as well. They gave me a transaction number and everything about the transaction.

They have now asked me for ID. This is not the issue as it is no problem.

I am grossly concerend about this for a number of reasons.

The casino seem to feel they can charge my Neteller without my authorisation. If it was a credit card, I would demand a charge back, but apparrently Neteller do not.

The casino have stored my secure ID. This also causes concern regarding rogue members of staff/rogue casinos.

I look forward all comments

See what I miss out on when I go on vacation??

Haviton should have known better than to use this forum to post a knowingly false claim which in essence could be damaging to both Neteller and King Neptunes. I will investigate this. And as far as I know, Havington has not produced his "brother-in-law's" ID to the casino.

Havington has by the end of the business day to have this resolved. No, I take that back - I'll give you until lunchtime.

 

[Freudian]

See what I miss out on when I go on vacation??

Haviton should have known better than to use this forum to post a knowingly false claim which in essence could be damaging to both Neteller and King Neptunes. I will investigate this. And as far as I know, Havington has not produced his "brother-in-law's" ID to the casino.

Havington has by the end of the business day to have this resolved. No, I take that back - I'll give you until lunchtime.

Something good has come out of this thread for me. I mailed Neteller to have my secure ID changed. There are probably 50 casinos that may or may not have my secure ID stored. I have no intention of going back to play at these casinos since I am happy with poker and there is thus no reason these casinos (that for the most part I have no complaints about) should be able to do any transfers with my Neteller account.

So some basic online housecleaning was a good idea for me.

 

[The Dude]

Something good has come out of this thread for me. I mailed Neteller to have my secure ID changed. There are probably 50 casinos that may or may not have my secure ID stored. I have no intention of going back to play at these casinos since I am happy with poker and there is thus no reason these casinos (that for the most part I have no complaints about) should be able to do any transfers with my Neteller account.

So some basic online housecleaning was a good idea for me.

Good going, in fact everyone should request to change either their password or security number or both periodically.

As for Haviton...no response to my inquiries.

 

[Tdoggy]

don't think he will

Casinmeister looks like you will not get a response. He's been caught and was trying to fraud the casino. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a reply.

Changing your security code is always a good idea. I still have not done it, but will soon. Thanks for the reminder

 

[Simmo!]

This thread makes me feel like i'm standing outside a bar having a quiet drink when a fight spills out of the bar onto the pavement. Police arrive, everyone disperses, and thats the last you ever see of the guys throwing punches

 

[Vesuvio]

This thread makes me feel like i'm standing outside a bar having a quiet drink when a fight spills out of the bar onto the pavement. Police arrive, everyone disperses, and thats the last you ever see of the guys throwing punches

I think it's more a case of mutually assured destruction Neteller and on-line casinos can't be keen on having their relationship under too much of a spotlight.

 

[steven_wright]

i can't help but wondering if this is the same "haviton" who has admitted to advertising his "services" on betfair and other forums...a kind of service where he visits the houses of interested people, does casino sign-up bonuses under their names and then splits the profits...?

i wouldn't dream of accusing the "haviton" on this forum as been the "haviton" that i know about but that's one heck of a coincidence...

I'm just wondering if this is the same scooooot & dirk diggler i know from the Rpoints PRIVATE casino forum, yes guys apart from the main Rpoints where most of you get your bonus abusing info from, we have a private forum section. this is so we dont upset our affiliates, because we have to abide by certain guidelines to make sure we get our payments. But the private forums are no holds barred and we make a lot of money, especially through multiple accounts.

i wouldn't dream of accusing you two of being the same people that i know, but it's one heck of a conincidence.....

 

[linda7]

To Steven Wright:

In all actuality, your last name should be WRONG. I cannot believe that you, and those like you, are so desperate for money that you would have to corrupt this industry worse than it already is. I, PERSONALLY, HOPE EVERY DAMN CASINO TAKES AWAY THE BONUSES, OR MAKES THE WAGERING REQUIREMENTS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO MEET. Trust me casinos, gamblers are just that, gamblers. At first they will throw a hissy fit, but then they will come back and continue as if nothing happened.

THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN A FRAUDULENT CASINO, IS A FRAUDULENT PLAYER! YOU MAKE ME SICK! :icon_evil

 

[The Dude]

....this is so we dont upset our affiliates, because we have to abide by certain guidelines to make sure we get our payments. But the private forums are no holds barred and we make a lot of money, especially through multiple accounts...

DD a fraudster and multiple account holder?? Please say it ain't so!!!

I, PERSONALLY, HOPE EVERY DAMN CASINO TAKES AWAY THE BONUSES, OR MAKES THE WAGERING REQUIREMENTS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO MEET.

Well, the Casino Action group will fulfill your wishes.

By the way, Haviton is permanently banned from here for player fraud. This forum is not to be used as a tool to blackmail casinos or to cause harm to other businesses like Neteller. This player's "brother-in-law" failed to produce the requested documents, and Haviton has become mysteriously silent about the whole deal even though he's logging into the forum to check out this thread. Bye!

 

[blankley]

'THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN A FRAUDULENT CASINO, IS A FRAUDULENT PLAYER! YOU MAKE ME SICK!'

Maybe Steven Wright, Dirk Diggler & Scoooot don't agree with you and see themselves as freedom fighters against the evil dudes.

 

[The Dude]

'THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN A FRAUDULENT CASINO, IS A FRAUDULENT PLAYER! YOU MAKE ME SICK!'

Maybe Steven Wright, Dirk Diggler & Scoooot don't agree with you and see themselves as freedom fighters against the evil dudes.

Freedom fighters???! My ass! King Neptunes and Neteller are "evil dudes"?

I'm not pointing fingers here (except at Haviton) but fraudulent play is a serious issue, and fraudsters deserve every bit of condemnation a rogue casino would get. Linda7 has a point, fraudsters are just as bad as casino scum - they are part of the scum.

But a fraudster and a bonus whore are not the same thing. (still no fingers pointed ) A fraudster is one who commits "fraud". Whoring a bonus is a different animal. Haviton is a fraudster - DD, Scooooot, etc., haven't committed fraud as far as I know.

But its not like I dont keep track of things

 

[Tdoggy]

you may be right

You may be right but what about the player who is in the right "100%" like me who gets screwed by the casino??????? What about them????? Who just get left in the dark because some scumbag customer rep lies to them and tells them it's ok to play at the casino and everything will be fine?????

Yeah not fair at all.....Oh I got my deposit back but what about my 900 in winnings????? Just forget about it right.......

After this I got to say you know what.....For all those bonus hunters out there I hope they take casinos that "screw people" like me get taken for as much cash as possible!!!!!

 

[The Dude]

You may be right but what about the player who is in the right "100%" like me who gets screwed by the casino??????? What about them????? Who just get left in the dark because some scumbag customer rep lies to them and tells them it's ok to play at the casino and everything will be fine?????

Yeah not fair at all.....Oh I got my deposit back but what about my 900 in winnings????? Just forget about it right.......

After this I got to say you know what.....For all those bonus hunters out there I hope they take casinos that "screw people" like me get taken for as much cash as possible!!!!!

You're comparing apples to oranges. What happened in your case didn't involve player fraud. It's two different things.

This situation dealt with a player who committed fraud against a casino, got caught, and tried to blackmail the casino and damage Neteller's business with a load of crap posted here.

 

[Tdoggy]

ok but???

ok true but what happens to the casino that does wrong to the player???? This is my point....And the answer NOTHING! Once screwed by a casino you can't but help they get screwed! Who can blame me.....900 in winnings is a lot.....


I see your point Casinomeister. But what about my point? Not fair at all.....


Lets jump all over the player but not the casino????

 

[blankley]

Freedom fighters???! My ass! King Neptunes and Neteller are "evil dudes"?

I was certainly not referring to King Neptunes as evil but the 'online casino complaints' section here is never short of postings.

I'm just trying to understand scoot etc's point of view. Having both a public and private forum does make you think though

 

[The Dude]

I was certainly not referring to King Neptunes as evil but the 'online casino complaints' section here is never short of postings.

Evilness noted.

 

[Vesuvio]

For all those bonus hunters out there I hope they take casinos that "screw people" like me get taken for as much cash as possible!!!!!

I feel same even about the good on-line casinos - in fact in a way they're more dangerous as you're much more tempted to keep going back. When I'm losing the urge to "bonus whore" it just takes reading something like this morning's story on the BBC website to restore my sense of mission (to whore, not defraud!)

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Seriously, I'd be happy to see the on-line casino industry shut down, despite the fact it provides me with an income. The misery it spreads totally outweighs any pleasure it gives to a few people.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Just to clarify - no I'm not a multiple accounts holder of any sort and have NEVER comitted fraud at ANY online casino. I challenge ANYONE who says so to offer even the smallest amount of evidence.

All this is is a blatent attempt to discredit myself and Scoooot simply because WE ACTUALLY ARE AGAINST FRAUD and posted in this thread AGAINST HAVITON.

I must admit this is all a bit upsetting, to see someone sign up to purely make a single post to try to discredit yourself purely because you actually believe in the casinos right to not have to pay out fraudulant players isn't nice I can tell you.

 

[greedygirl]

The misery it spreads totally outweighs any pleasure it gives to a few people.

The misery is not spread by online gaming nor any gambling for that matter. The misery is created by the player, his/herself. As in any addiction, no one is force feeding the "drug of choice" (be it narcotics, nicotine, sex, food, liquor, etc.) into the addict's "mouth."

Should all casinos be shut down, land-based included? What about liquor? Prohibition? Perhaps we close down all McDonalds, as this will help prevent those prone to food addictions from further temptation?

At the end of the day, we are all responsible for ourselves. Addiction may or may not be a "disease"--this will always make for a debate. What I DO know, however, is that an addict can either get help or sink into the great abyss. Whichever way, it all comes down to choice and personal responsibility.

 

[Vesuvio]

All this is is a blatent attempt to discredit myself and Scoooot simply because WE ACTUALLY ARE AGAINST FRAUD and posted in this thread AGAINST HAVITON.

Fair enough, but just out of curiosity could you confirm or deny there's a private Rpoints casino forum where the posting restrictions aren't the same as those on the public forum?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I can confirm there is NOT a private Rpoints casino forum where the posting restrictions aren't the same as those on the public forum - at least not that I'm aware of.

I'm a moderator at Rpoints and all the forums have the same restrictions about not posting about fraud of any kind.

 

[Vesuvio]

The misery is not spread by online gaming nor any gambling for that matter. The misery is created by the player, his/herself. As in any addiction, no one is force feeding the "drug of choice" (be it narcotics, nicotine, sex, food, liquor, etc.) into the addict's "mouth."

Should all casinos be shut down, land-based included? What about liquor? Prohibition? Perhaps we close down all McDonalds, as this will help prevent those prone to food addictions from further temptation?

I agree with what you say about responsibility, but with all of these things it's a cost-benefit analysis. Land-based casinos aren't as dangerous as on-line casinos because it takes that bit more time and effort to lose your money, and the player at least usually has a tangible experience to show for it. If you surveyed players leaving Las Vegas who lost I'm sure most would still have enjoyed their trip. If you surveyed players who lost at an on-line casino you'd find the opposite. Land-based casinos also employ a large number of people in themselves and related industries (food & accommodation etc.), so you can see some social benefits. You could still make a case for closing them, but not nearly as strong as for on-line casinos.

I know it comes down to personal choice and they're going to be around for a long time yet, but I'd personally rather live in a world without them