UKGC

[justdoit]

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[Jono777]

Geez, trying to squeeze an extra days work from a corpse

 

[Guntis]

.... proposed changes focus on making online games fairer and easier to understand

a 5-sec spin rule

 

[Jono777]

I also hear that they are forcing a certain provider to provide "Night School classes" for anyone playing their games.

It is a six month course with weekly attendance required but you get a certificate at the end of the course and will be able to have a better understanding and thus lose slower on all NLC games

 

[dunover]

.... proposed changes focus on making online games fairer and easier to understand

a 5-sec spin rule

Great, wait even longer for that 'D' to not drop down.

 

[Guntis]

I guess that 5-second spin rule would make things for me worse.

For instance, if I used to deposit £100 and play at £1 a spin and had to wait 5 seconds to see the result, i would eventually go nuts and increase my bet to £3 or so to get the end result quicker. Especially, in those cases when there are some 10-15 dead spins coming in.

Essentially, when i play, i have a thought in my mind to win - the sooner the better.

 

[satchnz]

What a long title for a consultation paper! They should be a little more succinct and call it:

Summer 2023 consultation on proposed changes to drive UK players to crypto casinos.​

 

[Guntis]

A no-fluff title:

UK's Proposed Shift to Crypto Casinos 2023

 

[Lemon]

The 5-sec spin rule is only for non-slots products by the looks of it. If it was on slots they would halve the player-base overnight and there would be calls for the same thing to apply to land-based games.

 

[Guntis]

Ah... I see, so it means they migh slow down those speed roulette games. But, still even they take longer than 5 secs between games naturally. What else it could ... probably online scratchcards or some sort of RNG instant win games.

 

[Lemon]

Yeah, scratchcards, instant win, possibly blackjack as well. Games where the player needs to make more than one interaction in the same game cycle I reckon.

 

[dealer wins]

Just replied with epic rants on each topic. The UKGC are insane. Easier to just use offshore casinos none of this BS and never had a problem with SOW or being paid

 

[OceansAbyss]

Slightly off-topic but , I don’t see much mention of people using an auto-clicker here , to get around the fact UK players cannot use autospin since 2021 sometime.

I recently got a laptop and downloaded an auto clicker and now I can auto-spin again! Sadly I haven’t found a legitimate way around the other issues such as no bonus buy and all the ridiculous SOW casinos throw at us , but it’s at least one thing rescued from the grave and it’s been rather pleasant going back to sipping a coffee while I watch my spins rather than having to manually do them all.

A small victory.

 

[justdoit]

I guess that 5-second spin rule would make things for me worse.

For instance, if I used to deposit £100 and play at £1 a spin and had to wait 5 seconds to see the result, i would eventually go nuts and increase my bet to £3 or so to get the end result quicker. Especially, in those cases when there are some 10-15 dead spins coming in.

Essentially, when i play, i have a thought in my mind to win - the sooner the better.

2.5 sec spin rule only valid on game not in bonus, all bonus last like 3sec on UKGC casinos ?

 

[goatwack]

Nothing particularly revelatory about these changes that I can see, from that update.

Not sure whether tailoring marketing spam to each user's needs is what I'd deem 'problem gambler- friendly', or that one step closer to the betterment of the player base....

It also appears as though the completely-not-for-slots 5-second spin delay is being trialled on other chaff before eventually, hate to say it, being mandated for slots. The blowback from this is likely to be negligible, and to the uninitiated, will seem like the norm. As mentioned, it will simply result in higher stakes betting, as each bet takes on more gravitas, actually keeping the punter more invested in the action. D'oh!

And of course the finishing touch will be to assert more financial intrusion and 'welfare' checks on top of the SoW & AML hellscape as a final flourish, whereby no credit checks, data-sharing or judgement is deemed too over the top....

Taking the very essence of gambling out of the picture, where impulse and risk rule the roost. And what of those players that have historically bettered their financial situation via associated risk and have pulled themselves out of the mire through sheer blind luck? Well you can kiss that goodbye. Curacao - hold my cocoa! ?

 

[Lemon]

Slightly off-topic but , I don’t see much mention of people using an auto-clicker here , to get around the fact UK players cannot use autospin since 2021 sometime.

I recently got a laptop and downloaded an auto clicker and now I can auto-spin again! Sadly I haven’t found a legitimate way around the other issues such as no bonus buy and all the ridiculous SOW casinos throw at us , but it’s at least one thing rescued from the grave and it’s been rather pleasant going back to sipping a coffee while I watch my spins rather than having to manually do them all.

A small victory.

Works best on slots where you have to press a different area of the screen to kick the bonus off, as this stops any further play. This means I don't miss any of my free spins when I'm hoovering my spare-room.

 

[Mattue]

How about making a rule that all slot machines must have a minimum of 96% RTP instead of all this BS.

They love talking about helping to protect players, yet everyone loses more now than ever because casinos were forced to lower payouts.

 

[goatwack]

I agree that RTP should be mandated to be within an acceptable range, e.g 94% onwards as a default ballpark figure, so that the player would at least have a sense of fair play and returns, even if through sheer attrition.

Problem being however, that casinos have - and will continue - to flex that high volatility model they're so obsessed with, turning all slots into lopsided, bonus-oriented 'games' that have next to no base game frolics. ....

If nothing is packed into the main game, then it just becomes about waiting for (or buying) the bonus, and at that point it matters little if the game's set at 92% or 95, as it's bound to yield something of note, at least in theory.

So variance's is truly where it's at, and where back in the day, slots were more of the Medium-Variance variety, and the RTP dispersed fairly evenly, and made for worthwhile slotting. Today's games are all alike, and so RTP doesn't seem to factor quite as much as it used to.

That's to say, grinding a game and bankroll-building is dead, having been replaced by bankrolling a dead base game with the promise of 'potential', and that's a real goddam shame I say

 

[satchnz]

How about making a rule that all slot machines must have a minimum of 96% RTP instead of all this BS.

They love talking about helping to protect players, yet everyone loses more now than ever because casinos were forced to lower payouts.

Doing things to benefit the player is not in the UKGCs remit.

 

[dunover]

How about making a rule that all slot machines must have a minimum of 96% RTP instead of all this BS.

They love talking about helping to protect players, yet everyone loses more now than ever because casinos were forced to lower payouts.

You would lose 80% of the UK-facing casinos in that case, as they cannot make it pay at 96+% due to the high costs of servicing our market.

 

[Mattue]

You would lose 80% of the UK-facing casinos in that case, as they cannot make it pay at 96+% due to the high costs of servicing our market.

I’m not really up to date on things these days as I only play at 3Dice now, but what exactly are the added expenses for a casino who accepts U.K. players?

Also, are the UKGC aware that in reality it’s the players who paying for these extra costs, rather than the casino?

That videoslots battle thread is like a timeline of the decline in quality. It used to be where I played and loved, now its just all people complaining.

 

[BetterValueCasino]

Mattue good to see your posts here and I agree with your points. I'm working on setting up an online casino in a few month's time and we intend to operate on much lower gross operating margin than is typical at the moment. In my opinion running slot games at an RTP of 96% is already enormously high margin, costing players a lot of money.

I'm not aware of added expenses for operating a casino in the UK market, except for gaming duty in addition to corporation tax in taxes. Gaming duty though is applied on gross gaming profit not turnover so reducing the margin involves less to pay on gaming duty. When the RTP is higher with prizes spread amongst more players, the gameplay can go on for much longer. Increasing the gross margin decreases the betting turnover.

According to a computer trading simulator which I coded to run on a computer called a BBC Micro, gambling businesses are very profitable when they have a good number of players and high betting turnover. Decreasing the margin increases the turnover, customer churn (people leaving) is far less - customer word of mouth recommendations are possible, and there is more chance a player can end their session of gambling in a positive mood. We want to operate on the lowest gross margins we can. At games at 94%, even 96% RTP, the games can take money and not give back in exchange for the money spent.

Mattue I think it would be a good idea as you say if the slot minimum RTP was set a higher amount.

 

[dunover]

I’m not really up to date on things these days as I only play at 3Dice now, but what exactly are the added expenses for a casino who accepts U.K. players?

Also, are the UKGC aware that in reality it’s the players who paying for these extra costs, rather than the casino?

That videoslots battle thread is like a timeline of the decline in quality. It used to be where I played and loved, now its just all people complaining.

You've got advetising/marketing, gaming tax rose a few years ago, software fees, licensing fees, the necessity for ongoing legal advice regarding the complex regulations, CS costs (if not outsourced) etc. This is why numerous small-medium turnover operators have left the market in the last 3 years, almost an exodus.

 

[satchnz]

You would lose 80% of the UK-facing casinos in that case, as they cannot make it pay at 96+% due to the high costs of servicing our market.

Hey @dunover, we keep hearing people in the industry banging on about this but what does it actually mean? I’m naive in this area so would be keen to understand what these extra costs are. We also get told that shaving a few percentage off the RTP makes minimal difference to the player, but if this was the case, what’s the benefit to the casino in doing so?

Also would it be an issue if 80% shut up shop and left with their sub par offerings?

Also, how do bet365 and MrQ manage to operate with max RTP across the board? Sure, bet365 is a big operation, but I would imagine that MrQ are much, much smaller.

 

[satchnz]

You've got advetising/marketing, gaming tax rose a few years ago, software fees, licensing fees, the necessity for ongoing legal advice regarding the complex regulations, CS costs (if not outsourced) etc. This is why numerous small-medium turnover operators have left the market in the last 3 years, almost an exodus.

Advertising/marketing costs, software fees, and licensing fees would surely be there regardless of UKGC regulations? So I’m hearing that gaming tax and legal fees is where the increased costs are? In terms of legal costs, are casinos having to build funds in order to pay the fines that the UKGC hand out, not knowing if and when they will be hit?

 

[dunover]

Hey @dunover, we keep hearing people in the industry banging on about this but what does it actually mean? I’m naive in this area so would be keen to understand what these extra costs are. We also get told that shaving a few percentage off the RTP makes minimal difference to the player, but if this was the case, what’s the benefit to the casino in doing so?

Also would it be an issue if 80% shut up shop and left with their sub par offerings?

Also, how do bet365 and MrQ manage to operate with max RTP across the board? Sure, bet365 is a big operation, but I would imagine that MrQ are much, much smaller.

See my last post. Well, we've probably already lost half of that 80% in the last 3 years already. You only need to search here '...leaving UK' or '...closing down' to find many of them. Bet365 are the biggest online gambling firm on the planet and have huge profits from overseas to subsidize the UK market.

Shaving 2% off of RTP certainly does NOT make 'minimal difference' to the player but in fact reduces their average play time pound-for-pound by 50%, the same figure as the casino's average profit per game will increase by if the game in question was once 96% and reduced to 94%.

If you enter your figures into this tool on my site

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you will see exactly how any slot RTP reduction affects you and it certainly isn't minimal!

As for MrQ I do promote them and they seem to be good and it may be a business decision to shave profit to the bone but grow the player base as a result to increase the value of the site - I cannot answer past that.

 

[satchnz]

See my last post. Well, we've probably already lost half of that 80% in the last 3 years already. You only need to search here '...leaving UK' or '...closing down' to find many of them. Bet365 are the biggest online gambling firm on the planet and have huge profits from overseas to subsidize the UK market.

Shaving 2% off of RTP certainly does NOT make 'minimal difference' to the player but in fact reduces their average play time pound-for-pound by 50%, the same figure as the casino's average profit per game will increase by if the game in question was once 96% and reduced to 94%.

If you enter your figures into this tool on my site

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

you will see exactly how any slot RTP reduction affects you and it certainly isn't minimal!

As for MrQ I do promote them and they seem to be good and it may e a business decision to shave profit to the bone but grow the player base as a result to increase the value of the site - I cannot answer past that.

I’m well aware of the impacts on the player of lowering RTP, but we are led to believe by some factions that it make’s minimal difference. I do not believe this.

 

[goatwack]

Reducing RTP off existing tried and tested favourites with a 'softer' variance is indeed criminal and an affront to slotters, as well as ruining the underpinning of that mechanic. One could reel off any number of classics that have been rendered unplayable, with Immortal Romance being a prime example.

Having an RTP between 94- 96% on any of today's 'games' doesn't account for much however, sorry to say, when every game is a prolonged death-rattle towards a wishful bonus that never arrives, forcing the player to purchase the bonus, or just give up the ghost trying.

Watching my £20 wisp into the ether over 300 spins or 350 isn't tantamount to 'value', when the games' variance has been so irrevocably bent to make the games like scratchcards, less 'slots'. And that's just the state games design finds itself in, a death-loop towards ever-higher variance where number of spins gleaned from a meagre deposit is just......arbitrary....

 

[Mattue]

Having an RTP between 94- 96% on any of today's 'games' doesn't account for much however, sorry to say, when every game is a prolonged death-rattle towards a wishful bonus that never arrives, forcing the player to purchase the bonus, or just give up the ghost trying.

What makes it worse is you can finally hit a max win after chasing it, only to then discover your overall RTP is still only 89%.

You needed to hit it twice to be in profit overall. ?

 

[megadam]

What makes it worse is you can finally hit a max win after chasing it, only to then discover your overall RTP is still only 89%.

You needed to hit it twice to be in profit overall. ?

Think I'd need a Tombstone RIP 300kx max win to even make a dent in re-cooping anywhere near my losses despite having some decent ones.

Gamstop'd myself tonight. The state of the UK is absolutely appalling, playing for 9000+ hours to get a bonus that costs you an absolute fortune with an extra bet turned on for 3.35 times your base stake (DJ Psycho from NLC I'm looking at you) only for it to give you a 5x win.

No mandate for actually validating how fair extra bets are, allowing casinos to effectively promote the same product when under the hood it isn't (RTP), mandating that you're not allowed to auto-play spins anymore and actually keep track of how much you've lost/gained (Casinos's implementation of a loss counter is and has never been good enough only a provider's has), 2.5 second spin rule to slow the game down even though bonuses are allowed to speed through willy nilly and then to top it all off, you tip over that limit by £5 then you'll have credit checks and the identity police show up at your front door to verify that you can spend your £5 and you are who you are.

Don't think I've missed anything, don't think I'll miss gambling in the UK. Thank you UKGC.

 

[justdoit]

here we go again

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[slot_zombie]

Might as well replace that page with "Best non-UKGC Crypto Casinos Autumn 2023 sign up here"

 

[bamberfishcake]

here we go again

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I think watching grass grow is more productive than participating in such farcical and pointless endeavours as a UKGC public consultation.

'they came, they asked, they didn't bother to listen' pretty much sums them up.

Posturing should stay on the catwalk.

 

[Jono777]

IIRC, they took a vote previously on other "decisions"

One being removal of Auto play, where 99.99% voted against this, we all know what happened there.

"Having taken serous consideration of the vote....."

Whatever

 

[bamberfishcake]

IIRC, they took a vote previously on other "decisions"

One being removal of Auto play, where 99.99% voted against this, we all know what happened there.

"Having taken serous consideration of the vote....."

Whatever

My thoughts exactly. If the last consultation fell on deaf ears, there is no point in wasting your time in the parade.

 

[Jono777]

My thoughts exactly. If the last consultation fell on deaf ears, there is no point in wasting your time in the parade.

Not just UKGC but in general, I hate it when "they" put something out to debate / vote when their minds are clearly already made up.

Anybody with an IQ higher than 5 can usually spot this sort of thing.

 

[justdoit]

UKGC need urgent new CEO ex gambler

 

[satchnz]

UKGC need urgent new CEO ex gambler

They should be active gamblers (obviously non problem gambler). How can you regulate an industry that you are not active in? Some of the UKGC initiatives are proof of that.

 

[Guntis]

UKGC need urgent new CEO ex gambler

 

[justdoit]

They should be active gamblers (obviously non problem gambler). How can you regulate an industry that you are not active in? Some of the UKGC initiatives are proof of that.

if they have good ceo he will get steamers option ask gamblers what they think like Vote in Twitter, but all they did block comments on twitter

 

[bamberfishcake]

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