LondonJackpots.com (Jumpman Gaming Limited) issue

[lprc87]

Hi all,

Signed up with LondonJackpots the other day (owned by Jumpman Gaming Limited). I deposited £900, worked my way upto around £6k then had a bad run and withdrew at just over £3k.

Once i processed the withdrawal, the website asked my for my documents (ID, proof of address, proof of payment). I uploaded these. I then noticed that the funds were still available in my account. You know what happened next.

I went on to lose all the £3k and another £1k on top of that.

I complained to LondonJackpots stating the funds i withdrew should never have been made available again after processing the withdrawal. GC states the below:

Remote gambling and software technical standards under section 89 and section 97 of the Gambling Act 2005.

RTS requirement 14B​

Consumers must not be given the option to cancel their withdrawal request.

RTS implementation guidance 14B​

Once a customer has made a request to withdraw funds, they should not be given the option to deposit using these funds. Operators should make the process to withdraw funds as frictionless as possible.

LondonJackpots replied stating I never made a withdrawal.

Is it ok for them to lie about this to make me go away?

Thanks and I am aware It was down to me continuing to gambling once the money was available again (this is not the point of discussion, its the GC regulation)

 

[L&L-Jan]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Do you have any proof of your withdrawal request?

 

[lprc87]

Hi Jan,

The only proof is the records held by LondonJackpots who have seemingly decided to lie about it (or the person I am communicating with is incompetent). I received no email after withdrawing (also no emails after each deposit I made). I never expected I would have to have proof of making a withdrawal or that a gaming provider would hide info.

I can see only see the record of when I uploaded all my documents (which I only did as the website asked me to do this upon withdrawaing). The whole process was odd as the website was even asking me to connect to my energy supplier account as proof of address!

 

[L&L-Jan]

Can you check your transaction history on site? Does it show a withdrawal request that was maybe declined? or only deposits done?

 

[lprc87]

No the withdrawal doesn't show on the transaction history, only the deposits.

The withdrawal was definitely made (i have been playing online for many many years). It was back to my payment card and then asked me to upload the relevant documents which i did. It seems they have literally made any record of it vanish so there is no comeback.

 

[brianmon]

IIRC from playing at one of the Jumpman sites a while ago. The withdrawal button isn't even enabled until the account is verified.
Although that might have changed recently since it's not really in-keeping with UKGC rules

 

[lprc87]

I didn’t have that problem.

 

[L&L-Jan]

If a withdrawal is started, a supporting transaction needs to be in place, no matter what the status is.

 

[lprc87]

Not quite sure what you mean?

Basically it’s coming down to my word vs their word. Surely they have some responsibility to actually provide accurate information? My withdrawal can’t just disappear from the records! It seems they have banned me from playing so I can’t test the system anyway.

Looking around the forum it seems Jumpman are quite the shady business with lots of people having similar experiences.

Is there a rep from Jumpman on the forum? There is a telephone number for the GC to report suspicious activity - maybe I should report this?

Doesn’t seem to be a UK registered business or anything so can’t look up directors.

 

[lprc87]

Did some digging and it seems the CEO is Ben Starr. Also a director at 15 Marketing Limited in London. Maybe I should try and make contact him?

 

[paul7388]

From reading what you have wrote I doubt the withdrawal was ever made. Seems more like you pressed to withdraw and got the message you needed to supply documents first so the withdrawal never actually happened.

Which would explain why no record of it and why the money was still in your account as soon as uploaded them as it had never actually left.

Even at casinos like VIdeolslots you can not withdraw until you have verified all documents.

So not really seeing a problem here except for fact you blew the money and more.

By sounds of it you tried to withdraw. Got message saying documents needed and you did it right away. Then saw money was still in account so why would you not then just withdraw it straight away. Not like we are talking a long time later money still in account and you got fed up. It was almost right away so looking at it don't really see the casino did much wrong as if you were wanting to withdraw it you would have done so right after uploading documents

 

[lprc87]

Thanks for reply.

I already withdrew the full balance so how/why would I withdraw again?

Surely if you have provided documents or not, once you withdraw the funds, they should not be accessible?

RTS implementation guidance 14B​

Once a customer has made a request to withdraw funds, they should not be given the option to deposit using these funds. Operators should make the process to withdraw funds as frictionless as possible.

Had a similar experience with Kwiff. After making withdrawal of the full balance, the money just sat in the cash balance available to play. It seems the casinos are making it accessible so you can gamble winnings away. Surely this isn’t compliment with GC?

 

[cncas2123]

Based on the experience I had at a Jumpman site I’ve no doubt that you did withdraw . What they have then done is return the withdrawal to your account as it takes 72 hours to verify your documents and they won’t process the withdrawal until you are verified.
When you loaded the documents and pressed the withdrawal you don’t get any confirmation email , and when they return it to your account they don’t inform you either.

 

[paul7388]

Thanks for reply.

I already withdrew the full balance so how/why would I withdraw again?

Surely if you have provided documents or not, once you withdraw the funds, they should not be accessible?

RTS implementation guidance 14B​

Once a customer has made a request to withdraw funds, they should not be given the option to deposit using these funds. Operators should make the process to withdraw funds as frictionless as possible.

Had a similar experience with Kwiff. After making withdrawal of the full balance, the money just sat in the cash balance available to play. It seems the casinos are making it accessible so you can gamble winnings away. Surely this isn’t compliment with GC?

But in this case they asked you right away to supply documents. You did right away and instead of going oh moneys still in account never went through better do it again you went and gambled it all. Hardly see how it can be casinos problem that you never tried to withdraw again and do not see how casino is deliberately trying to stop you withdrawing.

Take as an example Videoslots . Sign up and get electronically verified. Deposit money , win and think time to withdraw. Go straight to withdrawal page and it tells you you need to supply documents before first withdrawal and you cannot even try to withdraw till supplied. They might even take days to verify them so then could understand someone losing patience and blowing money. But by sounds of it your documents were approved and you were able to withdraw right away. So you should have. They were not blocking you , you chose to spend it.

Even the casinos run by Jan who posted here used to only allow another withdrawal once the pending one is processed. Not sure if that has changed. So would you make a withdrawal at them. See it ls still pending and you cannot make another one yet so blow the money then complain they are breaking regulations as they refused to let you withdraw again as you had a pending withdrawal.

 

[toms596]

It's fairly common when withdrawals get rejected to go back into your balance also

 

[Reelsoffun]

To me it sounds exactly like @paul7388 said and makes perfect sence that that’s how it actually played out, which would suggest the casino wasn’t in the wrong but was just taking advantage of a sort of loophole that allowed them to seemingly not even begin to process the withdrawal until docs uploaded.

You should have just withdrawn the 3k the second you saw it back in there. I think you have just had a 3k lesson in what not to do.

 

[lprc87]

Surely “oh withdrawal never went through better do it again” isn’t a valid reasoning though?

I appreciate it’s my fault betting it away and if I do get nothing out of this complaint, are we really saying this is acceptable from a casino despite the below?

Remote gambling and software technical standards under section 89 and section 97 of the Gambling Act 2005.​

RTS implementation guidance 14B​

Once a customer has made a request to withdraw funds, they should not be given the option to deposit using these funds. Operators should make the process to withdraw funds as frictionless as possible.

 

[paul7388]

Surely “oh withdrawal never went through better do it again” isn’t a valid reasoning though?

I appreciate it’s my fault betting it away and if I get nothing back out of this, are we saying this is acceptable from a casino despite the below?

Remote gambling and software technical standards under section 89 and section 97 of the Gambling Act 2005.​

RTS implementation guidance 14B​

Once a customer has made a request to withdraw funds, they should not be given the option to deposit using these funds. Operators should make the process to withdraw funds as frictionless as possible.

I can see what you mean.

Just be pretty hard to win your case. Not like they have technically allowed you to reverse the withdrawal as they returned the funds themselves till documents were given. Then the fact you admit you never tried to withdraw again right away when you saw the funds still in your account would work against you as it says the process should be as frictionless as possible. Now asking a customer to verify payment method before withdrawing no doubt would be allowed by the regulators which is what you were asked to do. Majority of casinos would ask for the payment method to be verified after a deposit before allowing a withdrawal.

It is just the same as at times withdrawals from even the best of casinos fail due to maybe an error with the payment provider. the casino would probably notify you but the funds would go back into your account to try again or try another method. Again it would be hard to say casino is in wrong for returning funds when the withdrawal at the time was not possible.

 

[lprc87]

Thank for reply.

 

[jasonuk]

Not like they have technically allowed you to reverse the withdrawal as they returned the funds themselves till documents were given.

Pretty much this, "reversal" has a fairly specific definition in online gambling, and that is allowing the player to cancel the withdrawal process. An operator can still cancel it for a variety of reasons - including documentation or failed processing, or sometimes nefariously (particularly with unregulated operators).

In the case of "deposit using these funds", some operators used to offer incentives (bonuses etc) to get you to cancel a withdrawal. So by cancelling the withdrawal and performing a reversal, you are in essence "depositing" again as a player. However, that terminology doesn't apply to the operator sadly - perhaps it should, but that would rely on the UKGC getting their backside in gear.

 

[Triple A]

They shouldn’t have put it back but put it on hold till he got all the documents right. Putting back players their balance is kind of…hmm.

 

[jasonuk]

They shouldn’t have put it back but put it on hold till he got all the documents right. Putting back players their balance is kind of…hmm.

Fairly standard for the industry sadly - I've had withdrawals cancelled on multiple sites due to technical issues or document requests. I agree it should be held pending withdrawal, but that requires UKGC intervention.

 

[lprc87]

So Jumpman Gaming said I didn't make any withdrawal and they cant be bothered to investigate what has actually happened. They said it's deadlock and i can refer to ecogra.

Is it worth contacting ecogra? Are these guys still in the pocket of the gaming providers?

 

[Deeplay]

Harsh i know but thing is you chose to play on and deposit another 1k - no one forced you. Back in the day when players had to dodge the 24/48 or longer reverse periods I remember reversing a number of big withdraws much to my "own" misery as it hardly ever turned out well. But it was my choice - I chose to play on. Crap lesson to learn but I dont think the casino in question actually broke any rules even if those rules suck. If im wrong I will hold my hands up ... but I do not think you will see a penny given back on the money you decided to continue to gamble with.

 

[Triple A]

So Jumpman Gaming said I didn't make any withdrawal and they cant be bothered to investigate what has actually happened. They said it's deadlock and i can refer to ecogra.

Is it worth contacting ecogra? Are these guys still in the pocket of the gaming providers?

eCogra is useless.