UK Conservative Party Leadership Election

[slot_zombie]

The real calamity here is that we could have two years of this.

Two years? If the country hasn't completely broken down into Mad Max-style anarchy by the time Spring arrives (doubtful), we'll all be for a fiery end at the tip of one of Putin's warheads. Either way, we'll never get to see a Labour government - so there's that, I guess.

 

[goatwack]

Despite the fear-mongering media campaign, yes this conflict's ugly, as is any in any war, but I believe the ICBM-chatter to be nothing other than good old-fashioned rhetoric, much in the vein of Trump's 'discourse' with ol' Kim, where he was essentially threatening fire & brimstone.

The whole point of acquiring such weaponry is to make one's voice heard, for people to sit up and take notice. And yet, their actual deployment would do absolutely no one any favours, so it's complete bravado.

But one thing that is inevitable is the 'long walk' towards the next GE, because judging by the past month, this is gonna be flippin' arduous

 

[dunover]

I am convinced Truss and Khazi Quarterback are Labour's militant tendency plants. She should sod-off back to the Lib-Phlegms or wherever she arrived from and he should piss-off back to playing in Musical Youth and pass his dutchie 'to de left hand side' somewhere else.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I am convinced Truss and Khazi Quarterback are Labour's militant tendency plants. She should sod-off back to the Lib-Phlegms or wherever she arrived from and he should piss-off back to playing in Musical Youth and pass his dutchie 'to de left hand side' somewhere else.

I honestly think the 'original sin' here, the straight line we can plot back from where we are now, to where we started, is Brexit.

Once the direction of the country could be dictated by outright lies and falsehoods, when the truth ceased to matter, when experts were to be derided, when judges became 'enemies of the people', when anyone who dared to put their hand up and say, 'Hang on folks, I think this is going to be really, really damaging for the UK', they were denounced as trying to 'subvert democracy', that is when the seeds of our downfall were well and truly planted.

And look where we are now, all of the Brexit promises have crumbled into dust, every single one. But the liars won, the zealots won, the 'believers' won, and they were elevated to the highest offices in the land, it was no longer just Farage shouting at the sky, these people made an actual government. (Two of them now, in fact.)

So it is that as 2022 rolls into 2023, we are facing severe economic hardship, interest rates rising, wages falling, recession looming, our trade with the world crippled, the dinghies still coming across the channel, Truss saying she wants a load of immigrants from the rest of the world to work for cheap to get her much vaunted 'growth, growth and growth', the rich getting richer and everyone else getting shit on, a bonfire of workers' rights in the offing, our children forever priced out of a housing market than has been taken over by the wealthy.

Remoaner tears you say? Everyone should be crying.

I just hope there's enough left for Labour to have a go at fixing it.

 

[goatwack]

People need to remember that the country had not long started the first shoots of recovery after years of complete financial flatlining before Brexit truly came in to view, so the notion that we were in some state of economic stability and prosperity has seemingly been overlooked.

Post- 2008 we were still faltering badly, industries dying, zero-hour contracts commonplace, our standing on the world stage diminished. I'd wager we're still feeling its effects now, with Brexit merely a handy tool to bury bad news (though in fairness, it still has potential )

And it seems the effects of the Covid curbs have long been passed off as insignificant, when in all actuality, it placed a turd on top of an existing shit sundae. Will there ever be any form of stability or breathing space? It seems not!

Open border policies spanning a generation, services at breaking point, a tanked economy paying workers very little, a dearth of wanting to acquire highly- skilled vocations in favour of Influencer clout, these problems stem back far beyond Brexit, and are so far-reaching and varied you could cite hundreds of reasons for the state the UK, and also other countries, find themselves in.

A lot of these modern afflictions cannot be solved overnight, nor by one Government looking to exploit an opportunity to get into power......but I will say if one's to 'critique' our recent border control policies, that's nothing if not an abject failure by not only Johnson's cabinet, but clearly Truss' too, and at complete odds with whatever was peddled in the run-up to the 2016 Brexit ball-breaker......

 

[mack341]

With the passing of Angela Lansbury [RIP] Chop's version of murder she wrote would have brexit as the major and only suspect in every episode!

For years any mention of interest rates rising by a mere 0.25% had financial commentators and head honchos panicking like they had swallowed industrial quantities of laxative.

How comes being in the EU, and a gold club member to boot, for all those years never led to us having reserves of wealth to cover the rainy times now or even worry about micro interest rate rises post 2008?

No the case for prosecution against Mr Brexit, compared to other factors, is very weak m'lud.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

To be clear, I'm not blaming Brexit for everything that ails the UK at the moment, Covid had an impact that continues to be felt, the war in Ukraine is ongoing and causing its own issues, and we had ten years of (entirely unnecessary) grinding Tory austerity that has left wounds which will take decades to heal (if they can be healed at all).

What is unique about Brexit however, and this is what my point above was, is that the entire prospectus for it was false. The whole thing was a lie from start to finish, Vote Leave was a conjob, and a brutally effective one at that.

To repeat once more, I don't blame anyone who voted for Brexit, I blame the people who perpetrated the lies that made it possible. If the truth had been told about Brexit, it would never have been voted for. Even when it comes to the dinghies coming across the channel, those much maligned experts were explaining, all the way back in 2016, why Brexit wouldn't fix that problem. Project Fear, Remoaners, doing Britain down - we all remember that, right?

Brexit codified a fundamental dishonesty in British politics, to a level never seen before. It installed Boris Johnson in government and then devoured him, and in his wake we got Liz Truss, installed by a tiny, incredibly unrepresentative sliver of the UK population, and she's already hand-grenaded the UK economy.

Without Brexit we'd never have got Johnson, who won an election based on a load of lies*, which were in turn heaped upon a pile of lies. No Brexit, no Johnson. No Johnson, no Truss.

The rot started in 2016, and now the disease has become terminal.

* We all remember 'NO BORDER DOWN THE IRISH SEA', right? Whereupon he promptly put a border down the Irish Sea.

 

[mack341]

To be clear, I'm not blaming Brexit for everything that ails the UK at the moment, Covid had an impact that continues to be felt, the war in Ukraine is ongoing and causing its own issues, and we had ten years of (entirely unnecessary) grinding Tory austerity that has left wounds which will take decades to heal (if they can be healed at all).

What is unique about Brexit however, and this is what my point above was, is that the entire prospectus for it was false. The whole thing was a lie from start to finish, Vote Leave was a conjob, and a brutally effective one at that.

To repeat once more, I don't blame anyone who voted for Brexit, I blame the people who perpetrated the lies that made it possible. If the truth had been told about Brexit, it would never have been voted for. Even when it comes to the dinghies coming across the channel, those much maligned experts were explaining, all the way back in 2016, why Brexit wouldn't fix that problem. Project Fear, Remoaners, doing Britain down - we all remember that, right?

Brexit codified a fundamental dishonesty in British politics, to a level never seen before. It installed Boris Johnson in government and then devoured him, and in his wake we got Liz Truss, installed by a tiny, incredibly unrepresentative sliver of the UK population, and she's already hand-grenaded the UK economy.

Without Brexit we'd never have got Johnson, who won an election based on a load of lies*, which were in turn heaped upon a pile of lies. No Brexit, no Johnson. No Johnson, no Truss.

The rot started in 2016, and now the disease has become terminal.

* We all remember 'NO BORDER DOWN THE IRISH SEA', right? Whereupon he promptly put a border down the Irish Sea.

A portion of the £10 billion eu membership fee should go to the NHS [to be spent wisely, e.g. training the next generation of surgeons etc..]

There shouldn't be a reason why exports to europe now face an insurmountable challenge of red tape, otherwise what was the point of joint signing a free trade deal with the EU. [and spending years negotiating it]

Regarding "I just hope there's enough left for Labour to have a go at fixing it". this is from 2010 when Labour last left office:

So add on the years of quantitative easing, then the lockdown expenditure and borrowing, = two big causes of inflation; even if Liz and Khazi have spooked the markets recently, the fundamentals cannot have been in good shape to end up here so quickly.

I have a feeling that in or out of the EU, the amount of prosperity for the general public, how much disposable income they have after essentials, will probably end up being the same on average, so then the difference probably becomes oversubscribed public services and parliamentary sovereignty, which is a crucial component of a meaningful democracy.

I think there was a sense, before 2016, of politicians conveniently giving an answer 'sorry our hands are tied by brussels', which you don't really want to hear from elected representatives sitting in one of the oldest parliaments.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A portion of the £10 billion eu membership fee should go to the NHS [to be spent wisely, e.g. training the next generation of surgeons etc..]

There shouldn't be a reason why exports to europe now face an insurmountable challenge of red tape, otherwise what was the point of joint signing a free trade deal with the EU. [and spending years negotiating it]

Regarding "I just hope there's enough left for Labour to have a go at fixing it". this is from 2010 when Labour last left office:

View attachment 174049

So add on the years of quantitative easing, then the lockdown expenditure and borrowing, = two big causes of inflation; even if Liz and Khazi have spooked the markets recently, the fundamentals cannot have been in good shape to end up here so quickly.

I have a feeling that in or out of the EU, the amount of prosperity for the general public, how much disposable income they have after essentials, will probably end up being the same on average, so then the difference probably becomes oversubscribed public services and parliamentary sovereignty, which is a crucial component of a meaningful democracy.

I think there was a sense, before 2016, of politicians conveniently giving an answer 'sorry our hands are tied by brussels', which you don't really want to hear from elected representatives sitting in one of the oldest parliaments.

See now mack I don't particularly remember any major political debates in the UK ending with a sort of stalemate to the effect of, 'Nothing we can do guv'nor because of Brussels innit'. I do remember all sorts of confected nonsense in certain sections of the press, and of course Johnson's famous series of literal made up nonsense in The Telegraph relating to EU rules that didn't exist.

I also remember Farage and his poisonous UKIP codswallop, that Cameron didn't have the spine to tackle head-on, and instead gave ground to the extent of promising a referendum on EU membership. I guess after a few years of austerity that was grinding everyone down, he was quite pleased to have the opportunity to deflect attention elsewhere.

And here we are in 2022 and guess what, it wasn't the EU's fault after all, because leaving it has made precisely bugger all any better and a load of things a lot worse.

Anyway, I realise we're rather in territory here that belongs over in the Brexit thread so I'll leave it there, the only reason I brought it up here was because I do believe that Brexit has had a corrupting influence on UK politics that it will take years to undo.

When you've got folks like Max Hastings (a lifelong Tory and former editor of The Daily Telegraph) saying stuff like this, you know you're in a rough spot.

 

[dunover]

See now mack I don't particularly remember any major political debates in the UK ending with a sort of stalemate to the effect of, 'Nothing we can do guv'nor because of Brussels innit'. I do remember all sorts of confected nonsense in certain sections of the press, and of course Johnson's famous series of literal made up nonsense in The Telegraph relating to EU rules that didn't exist.

I also remember Farage and his poisonous UKIP codswallop, that Cameron didn't have the spine to tackle head-on, and instead gave ground to the extent of promising a referendum on EU membership. I guess after a few years of austerity that was grinding everyone down, he was quite pleased to have the opportunity to deflect attention elsewhere.

And here we are in 2022 and guess what, it wasn't the EU's fault after all, because leaving it has made precisely bugger all any better and a load of things a lot worse.

Anyway, I realise we're rather in territory here that belongs over in the Brexit thread so I'll leave it there, the only reason I brought it up here was because I do believe that Brexit has had a corrupting influence on UK politics that it will take years to undo.

When you've got folks like Max Hastings (a lifelong Tory and former editor of The Daily Telegraph) saying stuff like this, you know you're in a rough spot.

So the same old UK-Europe comparison shite:
Covid - we did better with vaccine rollout, worse at reactionary lockdowns, better in hospitals, worse in care homes and numerous other 'factual' comparisons but I bet when the final count is done in years to come, you'll find ALL European countries were much of a muchness.
Economy - Inflation 9.9% in UK, 'only' 8.5% in the US, 'only' 8.7% Germany, all borrowing to keep utility prices low, propping up the Euro, propping up the Pound blah..blah... and no doubt when it all calms down you'll find all people in the UK and Europe were fucked to the same degree.

Brexit itself is proving very hard to statistically unravel in exactitude for obvious reasons including Ukraine and Covid, but no doubt the remoaners will keep banging their drum, when even their mate Starmer has taken up the manta 'Make Brexit Work Better' or whatever his latest soundbite is.

As for that infamous Labour treasury note, just cross the signature out, save paper and reuse it signed Khazi Kwarterback and leave it for Labour when they win the next GE. Which they will unless:

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Brexit itself is proving very hard to statistically unravel in exactitude for obvious reasons including Ukraine and Covid, but no doubt the remoaners will keep banging their drum, when even their mate Starmer has taken up the manta 'Make Brexit Work Better' or whatever his latest soundbite is.

Not really, the OBR has Brexit pegged at costing the UK 4% of its GDP on a permanent basis.

And Truss is targeting 2.5% growth as a metric of major economic success. If only there was a way to get there eh?

Anyway, reports from this evening's 1922 Committee meeting are that it's the grimmest any Tory MP can ever remember, there's a decent chance Truss won't make it to Christmas at this rate.

I certainly can't see her fighting the next general election as leader of the party.

 

[goatwack]

Funniest part being that the Conservative party had Rishi Sunak readied to become leader one day, but chose to reject him as he was almost too eager to take the reins.

Perhaps he'd been planning far too long, and his subsequent campaign looking rather too much like a coup, and yes he was an automaton. Yet I suspect he'd have kept the economy somewhat competent for the next couple of years, at least. So ultimately, it looked like no one was Ready 4 Rishi, and the Conservatives have lost the Golden Child.

Are we to believe Sunak will run again after that humiliation? It's politics, so who knows......but I think not.

Truss will probably see out the year, but come 2023 I'd expect the party to draft in someone to save them from potential GE ignominy, and yes, that may well be Boris Johnson, even if just as a short-term appointment.....

 

[mcgameboy]

I honestly think the 'original sin' here, the straight line we can plot back from where we are now, to where we started, is Brexit.

Well, I guess the 6 day Chopley detox this thread enjoyed was nice while it lasted.......

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well, I guess the 6 day Chopley detox this thread enjoyed was nice while it lasted.......

View attachment 174083

The top green box is the Brexit comment.

The bottom green box is the connective tissue to Truss and the current bombsite of a UK government.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Truss will probably see out the year, but come 2023 I'd expect the party to draft in someone to save them from potential GE ignominy, and yes, that may well be Boris Johnson, even if just as a short-term appointment.....

It's important to remember how toxic Johnson was for the Tories before his defenestration, he'd probably provide a bit of a bump in the polls compared to Truss, (although a dead, diseased rat could manage that), but I don't think he'd be anything like the knight in shining armour some are imagining. (If you look at the polling he'd make people who would still vote Tory anyway happier, he wouldn't win many back to the cause.)

His party trick was getting Brexit done*, and he's still kind of running on the falsehood of the UK's 'world beating' vaccine rollout (which if you look at the numbers isn't true, the UK got off to a strong start and then either equalized or fell behind other European countries, but whatever, it's stuck so we'll let him have it).

Either way, there's no world where I can see Johnson leading the Tories to a victory at the next general election.

* Very badly, of course.

 

[megadam]

Gotta disagree with you Chopley as someone that's actually worked in Government (As a contractor) and actually worked on a Brexit project (Yes I clearly sinned in a previous life) I can assure you that the problem isn't the idea of Brexit.

The fundamental problem is the bureaucracy and implementation of Brexit which across all Government bodies wasn't handled in the way of "Let's implement the best solutions for the best cost and best benefit" it became "How much can these big consultancies and companies all come to make obscene amounts of money and do it for the next 10-20 years".

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Indeed, here's someone making the broadly the same point as me but in a single Tweet.

As I said above, without Brexit we wouldn't have got Johnson.

Johnson was always going to be a shit Prime Minister, anyone who'd ever known him in any capacity warned about what a terrible job he'd do, and so it came to pass. But he got in by saying he'd get Brexit done.

Once his flaws became unignorable, and he'd performed his 'function', and was binned off, we then got Truss.

PM Truss would never have happened in the timeline where Brexit didn't happen.

That's the relevance to where we are now. To fix a mistake we first have to acknowledge it. The UK needs to be back in the Single Market and Customs Union (not the EU), without those our economy can never recover.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Gotta disagree with you Chopley as someone that's actually worked in Government (As a contractor) and actually worked on a Brexit project (Yes I clearly sinned in a previous life) I can assure you that the problem isn't the idea of Brexit.

The fundamental problem is the bureaucracy and implementation of Brexit which across all Government bodies wasn't handled in the way of "Let's implement the best solutions for the best cost and best benefit" it became "How much can these big consultancies and companies all come to make obscene amounts of money and do it for the next 10-20 years".

I'm sure that's very much the case, if there's one thing the Tories are good at it's getting their mates' snouts into the trough when there's a lot of government money sloshing around. (See also, Covid and PPE, and suchlike.)

Could Brexit have been done better? Without a doubt. Could it have been made damage-free? Absolutely not. It is damaging by design, that's its core feature.

 

[dunover]

Funniest part being that the Conservative party had Rishi Sunak readied to become leader one day, but chose to reject him as he was almost too eager to take the reins.

Perhaps he'd been planning far too long, and his subsequent campaign looking rather too much like a coup, and yes he was an automaton. Yet I suspect he'd have kept the economy somewhat competent for the next couple of years, at least. So ultimately, it looked like no one was Ready 4 Rishi, and the Conservatives have lost the Golden Child.

Are we to believe Sunak will run again after that humiliation? It's politics, so who knows......but I think not.

Truss will probably see out the year, but come 2023 I'd expect the party to draft in someone to save them from potential GE ignominy, and yes, that may well be Boris Johnson, even if just as a short-term appointment.....

Trouble is, Sunak and his missus' tax affairs and shenanigans are as dodgy as an Arthur Daley second-hand Mini Metro. Boris was fine policy-wise and strategy-wise but his personal laziness and activities were his undoing, providing too much ammunition to his detractors and setting the stage for the July coup. I don't think even BJ would win in 2024, but I expect he'd avoid the massacre that's coming from grey man Starmer who has had the election handed, gift-wrapped on a plate to him. Trouble is, aside from BJ the rest of them are anonymous, no personalities or obvious capability, no Ken Clarke or Tebbit type figures that would take the reins while holding some respect from the public or party.

 

[megadam]

I'm sure that's very much the case, if there's one thing the Tories are good at it's getting their mates' snouts into the trough when there's a lot of government money sloshing around. (See also, Covid and PPE, and suchlike.)

Could Brexit have been done better? Without a doubt. Could it have been made damage-free? Absolutely not. It is damaging by design, that's its core feature.

Hard disagree with you there. It doesn't matter what Government you had in place in charge of Brexit the implementation of it would've always failed because this country is lacking fundamental skills and the right/good enough people in the Public Sector to be equipped to deal with change such as Brexit. As a consequence they have to turn to these companies, that's existed for as long as I've lived, Labour or Conservative. Ironically Conservative probably would've spent less given their mantra and record on public spending.....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Trouble is, Sunak and his missus' tax affairs and shenanigans are as dodgy as an Arthur Daley second-hand Mini Metro. Boris was fine policy-wise and strategy-wise but his personal laziness and activities were his undoing, providing too much ammunition to his detractors and setting the stage for the July coup. I don't think even BJ would win in 2024, but I expect he'd avoid the massacre that's coming from grey man Starmer who has had the election handed, gift-wrapped on a plate to him. Trouble is, aside from BJ the rest of them are anonymous, no personalities or obvious capability, no Ken Clarke or Tebbit type figures that would take the reins while holding some respect from the public or party.

Part of the reason for that is Johnson expunged any vaguely critical elements from his cabinet, and indeed any top positions in the party, so perhaps not so great strategy-wise?

Thatcher famously kept a broad church in her cabinet, and encouraged challenges and dissent, which meant she kept genuine political heavyweights on the front benches at all times. (When Gorbachev came to visit the UK they sat up into the small hours of the morning, debating about their political ideologies, can you imagine Johnson being even remotely arsed to take that much of an interest in anything apart from the next woman he's planning to have an affair with?)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Hard disagree with you there. It doesn't matter what Government you had in place in charge of Brexit the implementation of it would've always failed because this country is lacking fundamental skills and the right/good enough people in the Public Sector to be equipped to deal with change such as Brexit. As a consequence they have to turn to these companies, that's existed for as long as I've lived, Labour or Conservative. Ironically Conservative probably would've spent less given their mantra and record on public spending.....

Sounds like it was always doomed to fail then, probably not such a great idea in the first place then really.

 

[mcgameboy]

The top green box is the Brexit comment.

The bottom green box is the connective tissue to Truss and the current bombsite of a UK government.

View attachment 174090

I seriously hope you are not trying to get me to engage in a serious political discussion with you, Mr Chopley Esq.
Because I AIN'T THAT GUY. And NEVER WILL BE.

I've got way better things to do with my time, like living in blissful ignorance, worrying about the things in my life that I CAN control
and trying to stay happy, instead of wallowing in misery, holding pity parties for one, talking to myself and trying to piss people off while dragging them down to your level of unadulterated misery, pessimism and all-round doom and gloom.

Serious political discussion? Nah, SOD THAT for a game of soldiers. I know which intellectual lane I belong in. And it ain't yours.
More than happy to stay in the slow lane, so I am.

I am just here to provide lame sarcastic wisecracks, most of which are aimed in your direction because you are nothing more than a
moaning (NOT REMOANING, just moaning) Minnie who has the extraordinary ability to completely bore the tits off me.
I'll say this for you, you've got some talent. A truly gifted individual. ?

Anyhow, while I am here, I have to address the elephant in the room.....

How in the name of God did it take you 6 days to find something "worthwhile" for you to post? It usually takes you 6 minutes.
Have all the Toxic Wokesel Libtard Snowflake Remoaner Marxist journos been on holiday?

Or did you actually decide to live a little, while temporarily removing the emotional burden that CONSTANTLY BEING RIGHT ABOUT ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING AT ALL TIMES NOW AND FOREVER MORE (another one of your apparent "gifts" ) inevitably places upon your embittered soul, so that you can FULLY BASK IN YOUR COMPLETE AND TOTAL INTELLECTUAL SUPERIORITY AND AWESOMENESS?

PS Vote Asteroid 2024, because it is marginally less terrifying and destructive than Vote Liebore 2024.

 

[goatwack]

That's the upcoming and legendary 'McGameboy & Chopley's Christmas card exchange' well and truly scuppered

?

 

[mcgameboy]

That's the upcoming and legendary 'McGameboy & Chopley's Christmas card exchange' well and truly scuppered

?

Only because the CWU are "going on strike to achieve maximum effect", my friend

Best hurry over to moonpig.com to check out their Brexit and Remoaner range.

 

[megadam]

Only because the CWU are "going on strike to achieve maximum effect", my friend

Best hurry over to moonpig.com to check out their Brexit and Remoaner range.

I want the MoonPig apocalypse Torie's dressed as the Grinch with Corbyn coming down the chimney with the obligatory "I'll save Christmas and Brexit" flag Chopley feverdream of a Christmas card please.

In all seriousness @ChopleyIOM regardless of Brexit there were gonna be significant changes made after Brexit anyways given the lack of investment made into key systems (I'm talking IT specifically) that needed to be replaced anyways. Brexit just amplified the pain but the pain would've existed either way.

 

[goatwack]

Had an accident at work because of Brexit?

Find Brexit has prevented your goals and dreams?

Has your wife run off with the milkman because of the rising costs brought about to UK farmers, a la Brexit?

Then worry not. Our specialists are here to help, with 0 years of experience in handling economic crises. Just call us:

0800- 1234- Red Wall

We are Keir for YOU*

*Get free kneeling pad for every seat won at next General Election, or useful policy. T&Cs apply

 

[ChopleyIOM]

In all seriousness @ChopleyIOM regardless of Brexit there were gonna be significant changes made after Brexit anyways given the lack of investment made into key systems (I'm talking IT specifically) that needed to be replaced anyways. Brexit just amplified the pain but the pain would've existed either way.

Well on that we agree. What I've been saying all along is Brexit has made many things worse, (and not that Brexit is the root cause of every single thing wrong in the UK now and forever), in some cases things that were already in a pretty poor way and needed improvement, in some cases things that were working perfectly well that Brexit chucked a hand grenade into the middle of.

As such, I am glad to see we have found some common ground.

 

[goatwack]

Oh bloody hell Chopley, make your mind up!

I honestly think the 'original sin' here, the straight line we can plot back from where we are now, to where we started, is Brexit.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Oh bloody hell Chopley, make your mind up!

I honestly think the 'original sin' here, the straight line we can plot back from where we are now, to where we started, is Brexit.

Yes that was specifically referencing how Truss came to be our Prime Minister, which I do not see ever happening in a timeline where Brexit didn't happen (as outlined in previous posts).

That doesn't mean I'm suggesting that everything that's happened between 2016 and now can solely be laid at the door of Brexit, and I've never claimed that to be the case. (I appreciate the Brexit thread is approximately five billion pages long at this point, and I wouldn't wish wading through it upon my worst enemy, but I have tried to lay out the same argument many, many times over.)

Like this post from August of last year, it's all there for anyone to reference if they care to - Brexit - whats the difference..... - Page 171 - Casinomeister Forum

 

[goatwack]

Anyone see the assault on Rees- Mogg on that trash comedy news outlet, Channel 4 News?

In it, we see an emotive blogger, under the guise of being a 'journalist', and complete with "I want to see your manager" haircut, fail to contain her disgust at Mogg's explanation.

Who said civil discourse is dead? I'd imagine she seized this pre-watershed moment because she was all too aware of the host's penchant to let little things like swearing go unnoticed. And why the host nonchalantly 'apologized' with words such as "We're sorry if you were offended" as opposed to something like "We're sorry for the language used" etc

Basically code for "Boo-hoo if it offended your sensibilities you muppets"

But still, slips of the tongue can - and do - occur from time to time. And when Ms Karen has quite finished turning the airwaves blue, I suppose she'd be welcomed with open arms into the Labour party ?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Anyone see the assault on Rees- Mogg on that trash comedy news outlet, Channel 4 News?

In it, we see an emotive blogger, under the guise of being a 'journalist', and complete with "I want to see your manager" haircut, fail to contain her disgust at Mogg's explanation.

Who said civil discourse is dead? I'd imagine she seized this pre-watershed moment because she was all too aware of the host's penchant to let little things like swearing go unnoticed. And why the host nonchalantly 'apologized' with words such as "We're sorry if you were offended" as opposed to something like "We're sorry for the language used" etc

Basically code for "Boo-hoo if it offended your sensibilities you muppets"

But still, slips of the tongue can - and do - occur from time to time. And when Ms Karen has quite finished turning the airwaves blue, I suppose she'd be welcomed with open arms into the Labour party ?

View attachment 174115

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I don't know why you've put journalist in air quotes, Gillian Tett has been a financial journalist and author for decades, and has won numerous awards for her work.

There comes a point when the serial dishonesty of this government needs to be called out for what it is, and the use of the word 'bollocks' to express the depths of mendacity to which this appalling Tory administration has sunk to is entirely appropriate.

Lest we forget, of course, that Channel 4 was established (under a Thatcher administration) specifically to provide an alternative and more challenging television output than BBC1/2 and ITV often did, and this was part of its explicit broadcasting remit.

So y'know, kind of functioning as intended.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm wondering if we're about to witness a near extinction event when it comes to the Conservative Party as we know it. It's happened before (The Liberal Party in the 1920s and 1930s, for example), it would represent a truly seismic shift in UK politics but at this point it is not beyond imagination.

Certainly amongst younger people they are essentially a non-entity, their support at this point in time is increasingly the over 50s, and indeed pensioners, and they won't be around forever.

 

[Siohmy]

Not a healthy situation under any circumstances. You need a competitive alternative in a democracy. Still at least it may indicate the country at large are generally sharing a “fuck this shit, let’s give the other mob a chance” mindset. ?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Not a healthy situation under any circumstances. You need a competitive alternative in a democracy. Still at least it may indicate the country at large are generally sharing a “fuck this shit, let’s give the other mob a chance” mindset. ?

There's nothing to say that the sands won't shift, if the Tories get properly wiped out at the next election, we may well see the rise of other parties such as the Libs and the Greens, although admittedly there isn't much of a sign of it yet, but I think the electorate are indeed in 'kick this fucking shower of shit out' mode at the moment.

Certainly if you look at the politics of the country as a whole, the current government is way to the right of even most Tory voters, there may well be a reorganisation of what we consider to be normal in UK politics.

That said, the Tory party is very good at reinventing itself, so they'll probably try to rebuild themselves as a centre-right proposition following the almost inevitable carnage of the next general election.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Absolute shower of clowns, sacked for literally doing what Truss said she was going to do.

Doubtless a(nother) U-Turn coming later today as well.

A government of incompetent buffoons.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Now confirmed, Kwarteng is sacked, although he has avoided the ignominy of being the shortest ever incumbent in the role, still beaten by Iain Macleod back in 1970, who had the admittedly excellent excuse that he died of a heart attack.

The thing is though, I don't see what this achieves, I mean, Truss can't accuse Kwarteng of doing all this behind her back whilst she wasn't paying attention, this shit was the central plank of her leadership campaign, Kwarteng was basically doing exactly what his boss had said she was going to do, and wanted him to do.

Expect much of the mini-budget to be scrapped this afternoon, the markets have priced in that it's going to happen, she literally has no meaningful choice but to U-turn at this point.

We could still have two more years of this. Government by farce.

 

[slot_zombie]

This is ridiculous now. One disaster to another, starting with useless energy policies running for years, to the scandalous COVID lockdowns and failure to protect the borders- now economic blundering on an industrial scale.

How Truss will explain this away in her news conference later... will be interesting...

Not my Conservative party.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You can watch a live feed on The Daily Star's website to see if Truss will outlast a lettuce.

 

[goatwack]

I don't know why you've put journalist in air quotes, Gillian Tett has been a financial journalist and author for decades, and has won numerous awards for her work.

There comes a point when the serial dishonesty of this government needs to be called out for what it is, and the use of the word 'bollocks' to express the depths of mendacity to which this appalling Tory administration has sunk to is entirely appropriate.

Lest we forget, of course, that Channel 4 was established (under a Thatcher administration) specifically to provide an alternative and more challenging television output than BBC1/2 and ITV often did, and this was part of its explicit broadcasting remit.

So y'know, kind of functioning as intended.

Of course you'd excuse that sort of language, because in your world that's acceptable, because it's against a Tory. And all because the lady loves....not being able to curb her tone.

I mean why stop there? Because it's an alternative and challenging television outpost, we could have Kwarsi exclusively call Guru-Murthy a tosspot if the questions get a bit too much! Or better yet, why not have Opposition MPs stand up in the House of Commons and gesticulate 'wanker!' motions at their rivals?

You are truly blinkered in your selective outrage, because let's face it, had that been Rees- Mogg dropping a pre-watershed B-bomb we'd not hear the end of it

And yes, Channel 4 was established to be alternative to the big boys, albeit this is the News, and that type of discourse would have been frowned upon, as I'm sure they were held to a higher standard at its inception.

But fear not, blogger Tett will be hailed as a hero by her Financial Times buddies, so let's raise a glass for her stunning bravery, shall we?

 

[slot_zombie]

Live press conference at 14:30.

Truss' reply to his resigation letter has Kwarteng's name at the bottom of it by the signature, rather than Truss's

They can't even write a letter.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Live press conference at 14:30.

Truss' reply to his resigation letter has Kwarteng's name at the bottom of it by the signature, rather than Truss's

They can't even write a letter.

That's actually a (very odd) Downing Street convention. I'd be the first to admit it makes little sense.

The Royal Household does it as well.

It's an olde worlde type thing.

 

[goatwack]

Here we go!

 

[goatwack]

No one ask her whether she has a mortgage, please

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think it's safe to say the lettuce is winning.

 

[goatwack]

Definitely no party apology forthcoming!

Corporation Tax set to raise that £18 billion in a £60 billion chasm!

Questions as to why she didn't fall on her sword too, instead opting to sacrifice Kwarteng at the altar of appeasement!

First bit of adversity, opts to not to see her 'original vision' through, sacks her lifelong ally and party's wunderkind, to usher in non-Treasury expert Jeremy Hunt. What leadership!

 

[Siohmy]

This is truly staggering. She got in making the sort of promises the 2-300k Tory members wet themselves over despite 99% of the experts saying it was an utterly reckless economic line to take. Then bins it along with the guy following her leadership pledges.

She is the female version of Boris isn’t she?

 

[goatwack]

The scheming begins in earnest after Robocop's four-question press conference, and talk of a Mordaunt/ Sunak coup brewing.....

 

[Webzcas]

Seriously no words! Well I have as I am writing some down here. Good god! In my near 50 years on this planet, this is the worst by far political situation we have ever faced. We have a cluster whatsit of a govt and an opposition still infested with Corbynites, whilst there is a war going on in mainland Europe involving Russia.

So, even though I would be all for having a General Election, I really do not know which way to turn. We are screwed whichever we look :-(

 

[goatwack]

What a debut by the power couple - on par in popularity with Beelzebub

Reactionary or not, this is the sort of polling that gets a party panicking. Resignation imminent?....