UK Conservative Party Leadership Election

Labour are the only political party with a solid policy proposal on the table to get the people of the UK through the winter, windfall tax on the energy companies to pay to fix everyone's energy bills as they are now, saving the average household thousands of pounds.

Truss is the one banging the ideological 'profits are not evil' drum, even as we go into a winter where people are literally going to freeze to death in the sixth richest economy in the world, as UK energy companies make tens of billions of pounds in profits, extracted directly from the pockets of the people and businesses of the UK.

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I think truss will be more flexible once in the hot seat, realpolitik will take over, if not she'll have a shorter stay or tiny majority to govern with.

If the EU make significant changes it will affect uk energy prices too as it's an international market, so there's that angle to wait for.
 
I think truss will be more flexible once in the hot seat, realpolitik will take over, if not she'll have a shorter stay or tiny majority to govern with.

If the EU make significant changes it will affect uk energy prices too as it's an international market, so there's that angle to wait for.

Have to say I wasn't expecting 'hopefully the EU will fix it' to be an angle you'd go for :)
 
Labour are the only political party with a solid policy proposal on the table to get the people of the UK through the winter, windfall tax on the energy companies to pay to fix everyone's energy bills as they are now, saving the average household thousands of pounds

But if you put a windfall tax on the profits of, say, Centrica then surely you would then have to give them money if they post losses just as they did in 2019 to the tune of £1.1bn

Can't be surely having it both ways

Edit, interesting article in the Guardian where EDF was forced to sell energy at low prices by the French Government, so is suing them:
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But if you put a windfall tax on the profits of, say, Centrica then surely you would then have to give them money if they post losses just as they did in 2019 to the tune of £1.1bn

Can't be surely having it both ways

Edit, interesting article in the Guardian where EDF was forced to sell energy at low prices by the French Government, so is suing them:
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Wot? In an EU country? Never! State intervention in the market really worked well there then...:rolleyes:
 
If a 7 billion subsidy meant energy is affordable to the country then that is not a lot, EU membership alone was costing 10 billion, and the various british govts never moaned once about that annual blackhole.

If you think about the current 'competitive' market setup, how much money do the energy firms spend on marketing and sponsorship [in a normal past year] for a product everyone needs. It's just a waste of money to the end payer, the consumer.

It wasn't such a problem when energy costs were low.
 
Have to say I wasn't expecting 'hopefully the EU will fix it' to be an angle you'd go for :)

I'm very pragmatic on this topic.

Briefly reading about it the other day some EU members have been dragging their feet and objecting to changing the market, don't know if it is the green political lobby not wanting their 'climate change' surcharges removed or something else. If they want to make changes that will affect this winter then they need to get a crack on, and in fact it is probably too late.

I bet the citizens of the EU countries are wondering what will be the EU response, it's a test of their usefulness and benefit to the average person, if they can't make a difference to this european energy issue, keeping homes warm and having electricity that doesn't cost a fortune, then really what can they do which makes a positive difference to quality of lives.
 
I'm very pragmatic on this topic.

Briefly reading about it the other day some EU members have been dragging their feet and objecting to changing the market, don't know if it is the green political lobby not wanting their 'climate change' surcharges removed or something else. If they want to make changes that will affect this winter then they need to get a crack on, and in fact it is probably too late.

I bet the citizens of the EU countries are wondering what will be the EU response, it's a test of their usefulness and benefit to the average person, if they can't make a difference to this european energy issue, keeping homes warm and having electricity that doesn't cost a fortune, then really what can they do which makes a positive difference to quality of lives.

Looks like it might be having the desired effect already.

Just the expectation of co-ordinated EU action on price caps and windfall profit taxes is already bringing down power prices.

Obviously the UK alone is too small of an actor to have that kind of impact, so we are essentially being shielded and protected by the strength of the EU here.

I'm old enough to remember when the UK was a major, and powerful member of the EU, now we're just hiding in its shadows, hoping that the big bad power company bullies won't see us cowering in the corner.

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Nationalising the energy producers who are getting oil and gas from UK fields in the North Sea and thus stopping them from selling it to the international marketplace is the only mid term solution - This will ensure our UK suppliers get the energy at just above cost price rather than the over inflated rates on the international market where they have to import it from.

It is ridiculous, we are pretty much self sufficient as a country, yet import pretty much all our energy requirements, while the likes of Shell and BP make an eye watering fortune from actual UK owned resources.

Starmer's solution in freezing the rise of the price cap is a short term outlook I am afraid, but it is substantially better for the population than all of us running to Argos to get a new kettle, which Johnson has advised LOL.

Long term, we need more nuclear power stations and a substantial amount of investment in renewables.

One other thing, whilst I personally agree with her ( Truss ) decision to raise spending on defence to 3% of GDP by 2030, the free money printing press ran out after furlough. This is going to cost a pretty packet, where we will all feel the pinch.
 
Obviously the UK alone is too small of an actor to have that kind of impact, so we are essentially being shielded and protected by the strength of the EU here.
See my post above. The UK Govt has in its power to have a MASSIVE impact on the prices we UK consumers pay for our energy bills. Other than Norway, we are pretty much the only country in Europe ( minus the Russians ) who are energy self sufficient.

In fact, by nationalising the oil producers and bringing the costs right down in our domestic market as a result, we can harness Brexit by attracting a considerable amount of foreign investment. As manufacturers will be clamouring to relocate here due to the low energy prices. We can do this as we are no longer shackled by EU red tape.
 
See my post above. The UK Govt has in its power to have a MASSIVE impact on the prices we UK consumers pay for our energy bills. Other than Norway, we are pretty much the only country in Europe ( minus the Russians ) who are energy self sufficient.

In fact, by nationalising the oil producers and bringing the costs right down in our domestic market as a result, we can harness Brexit by attracting a considerable amount of foreign investment. As manufacturers will be clamouring to relocate here due to the low energy prices. We can do this as we are no longer shackled by EU red tape.

That's a great plan apart from the bits that will never happen, which is all of it.

1) Truss won't nationalise shit.
2) Manufacturers won't want to come here because the UK deliberately cut itself off from its biggest market, the EU. Cheaper energy won't overcome that, and the EU is taking action on it anyway.
3) Spoiler alert, we are subject to far more red tape when it comes to trading than we were as an EU member.
 
Nationalising the energy producers who are getting oil and gas from UK fields in the North Sea and thus stopping them from selling it to the international marketplace is the only mid term solution - This will ensure our UK suppliers get the energy at just above cost price rather than the over inflated rates on the international market where they have to import it from.

It is ridiculous, we are pretty much self sufficient as a country, yet import pretty much all our energy requirements, while the likes of Shell and BP make an eye watering fortune from actual UK owned resources.

Starmer's solution in freezing the rise of the price cap is a short term outlook I am afraid, but it is substantially better for the population than all of us running to Argos to get a new kettle, which Johnson has advised LOL.

Long term, we need more nuclear power stations and a substantial amount of investment in renewables.

One other thing, whilst I personally agree with her ( Truss ) decision to raise spending on defence to 3% of GDP by 2030, the free money printing press ran out after furlough. This is going to cost a pretty packet, where we will all feel the pinch.

I wonder though if it is a big part of our balance of payments as an export [edit: so the govt don't like the idea of changing things], be interesting to know what norway's domestic energy prices are, and whether they only sell on the surplus they don't need, so their domestic customers benefit first from lower cost energy.
 
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That's a great plan apart from the bits that will never happen, which is all of it.

1) Truss won't nationalise shit.
2) Manufacturers won't want to come here because the UK deliberately cut itself off from its biggest market, the EU. Cheaper energy won't overcome that, and the EU is taking action on it anyway.
3) Spoiler alert, we are subject to far more red tape when it comes to trading than we were as an EU member.
1) She may have no option, if she sees what many of us see coming down the road towards us and I am not being alarmist!
2) Want to bet?
3) Really, I am not convinced. But, this is not a Brexit / EU thread so can we not derail it :)
 
1) She may have no option, if she sees what many of us see coming down the road towards us and I am not being alarmist!
2) Want to bet?
3) Really, I am not convinced. But, this is not a Brexit / EU thread so can we not derail it :)

With respect old chap it was you who started down the not being shackled be EU red tape route :)

Anyway, we will see, nationalising anything is not in Truss's vocabulary and do remember that she'll be in thrall to the ERG nutcases too.

Honestly, I hope I'm wrong on this, because without massive government intervention on a Covid-style scale, this winter is going to be carnage for the people and businesses of the UK.
 
Anyway, we will see, nationalising anything is not in Truss's vocabulary and do remember that she'll be in thrall to the ERG nutcases too.

Honestly, I hope I'm wrong on this, because without massive government intervention on a Covid-style scale, this winter is going to be carnage for the people and businesses of the UK.
Yep, I am inclined to agree with you on both points. There will be a tipping point. We as individual consumers think we have it bad, at least we have a cap of sorts. Businesses are at the mercy of their suppliers.

From a personal viewpoint, already made the conscious decision to not use the central heating during the winter and also restrict the use of the washing machine and the time the cycles are run for. I will also cancel my DD with my energy provider should they decide to increase the monthly payment further. We are £300 in credit currently and paying double what we did in April a month, no more though. I will pay on the nose via card each quarter moving forward for what we exactly owe. Not based on sticking a finger in the air and coming up with an estimated monthly figure.

However, just by gauging the likes of twitter and other social media channels, this is not good, not good at all. Carnage is the right word to use as to what we will see if nothing is done.....
 
Most days including the standing-we'll-rip-you-fuckers-off-daily-regardless-charges we use £2.20-£3.00 worth. Gas very little as that's just hot water and heating which in the warm months (Scotland excepted) we don't use. We are hundreds in credit. It's frustrating knowing we're using almost every energy-reducing trick anyway and have been for years, yet cannot get that meter to go down any more!

I can see a new definition for a 'housewarming party' arriving this winter.

Stand out on the street, invite the next 25 strangers you see going past in for a chat and to watch telly say, then when their breath and body heat have raised the temprature to 20c kick 'em out. In fact, that's such a brilliant dunover idea I can see it being all the rage on antisocial media later this year.
 
Stand out on the street, invite the next 25 strangers you see going past in for a chat and to watch telly say, then when their breath and body heat have raised the temprature to 20c kick 'em out. In fact, that's such a brilliant dunover idea I can see it being all the rage on antisocial media later this year.
We'll all be out in the streets, sat around burning braziers of anything scavengable and combustible. A hungry, wary look in our eyes.
 
We'll all be out in the streets, sat around burning braziers of anything scavengable and combustible. A hungry, wary look in our eyes.
And we can all pretend we are @ChopleyIOM fans and are on strike while we're at it.
 
Most days including the standing-we'll-rip-you-fuckers-off-daily-regardless-charges we use £2.20-£3.00 worth. Gas very little as that's just hot water and heating which in the warm months (Scotland excepted) we don't use. We are hundreds in credit. It's frustrating knowing we're using almost every energy-reducing trick anyway and have been for years, yet cannot get that meter to go down any more!

I can see a new definition for a 'housewarming party' arriving this winter.

Stand out on the street, invite the next 25 strangers you see going past in for a chat and to watch telly say, then when their breath and body heat have raised the temprature to 20c kick 'em out. In fact, that's such a brilliant dunover idea I can see it being all the rage on antisocial media later this year.
Thats not very effective, you are just inviting cold people in to warm themselves up and once they are warm they leave again.
They are stealing heat from your house.

What you want to do is organize orgies.
Have a well insulated room in the basement that is a 24/7 open to the public orgy-room, it would be like a sauna in there at all times.
After that there is really nothing to it, you can now use your hot orgy-air powered AC unit to control exactly what temperature you want in all other rooms of your house.
j.gif
 
Thats not very effective, you are just inviting cold people in to warm themselves up and once they are warm they leave again.
They are stealing heat from your house.

What you want to do is organize orgies.
Have a well insulated room in the basement that is a 24/7 open to the public orgy-room, it would be like a sauna in there at all times.
After that there is really nothing to it, you can now use your hot orgy-air powered AC unit to control exactly what temperature you want in all other rooms of your house.
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You have that the wrong way around. Remember your house is COLD before you invite them in, and they and your room gradually warm up when enough of them are crammed in. Like your freezing bed soon warms up from body heat when someone is in it, even if they and/or the bed felt cold to start with.

Food gives the body energy. Energy is used to keep the body warm. The guests have eaten their own food before coming in. So their warm breath and bodies will heat your house at their expense. They have left their heat in your house. Think of a pub in winter when crammed, freezing outside then sweaty and warm inside.

I'd suggest if your room was cold say 11-12c after a couple of hours it would likely be 19-20c if enough people were present and of course it's a well-insulated property. To avoid letting this heat out when they leave, aim them out of a small window as near to the floor as possible instead to avoid opening the door.
 
You have that the wrong way around. Remember your house is COLD before you invite them in, and they and your room gradually warm up when enough of them are crammed in. Like your freezing bed soon warms up from body heat when someone is in it, even if they and/or the bed felt cold to start with.

Food gives the body energy. Energy is used to keep the body warm. The guests have eaten their own food before coming in. So their warm breath and bodies will heat your house at their expense. They have left their heat in your house. Think of a pub in winter when crammed, freezing outside then sweaty and warm inside.

I'd suggest if your room was cold say 11-12c after a couple of hours it would likely be 19-20c if enough people were present and of course it's a well-insulated property. To avoid letting this heat out when they leave, aim them out of a small window as near to the floor as possible instead to avoid opening the door.
Fair enough, but who wants to have a bunch of people hanging out in their living room/kitchen etc.
Also, in a country where people have to resort to inviting random people to heat their house, its bold to assume the invited people would have any food in their bellies.

The basement orgie is still a much better solution, it generates much more heat and with enough soundproofing its also 'out of sight out of mind'
No need for bellies to be full of food, exercise will cause the body to burn fat&muscle to produce body heat if it has to.
Plus your house will smell like love, or lovemaking i guess.

j.gif

Strangers in your house is the way to go, you are just doing it wrong.
 

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