Roguish Tradition Casino and likely all Rival casinos are Rogue. All Evidence shown here.

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
So, if a player miss the bj because he doesn't know how to play efficiently, payout still stays at 98%, but player would have lost all his money without making BJ at all or just few blackjack. What i'm meaning is that the number of BJ realized depends on the player quality, not on payout only. Did you know that?
Eh! :eek:

Please do not go into this discussion, most of those who reads this thread is VERY aware of how Black Jack is supposed to be played and how it works.

If you get Black Jack at your casino it´s only if your first two cards(which you don´t pick/chose at all) gives you BJ.

You can´t in any way use your skills.

EDIT to add: You can´t chose not to have Black Jack if you know what I mean.
 
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RedAndi

Winter is Coming
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
US
Stop to play with my words! Do you prefer i speak in french? I'm sure not...

When Rival "repaired" the normal blajack, they should have had to check the multi hands one, for sure, but they didn't. I cannot do nothing now against this fact unfortunately.



I never told that someone of my personal team "repaired" BJ : in these two cases Rival made the change and when this post started i ignored that these 2 games have been repaired at different dates : i discovered it when i have had the complete hands list.
Question...
If Traditions trainee is supposedly the one who screwed up the payout number then why did Rival have to step in to repair it?
If you can tamper with it in house why the need to have Big Bro come in and RE-tamper?
Just wondering.....
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
BTW I'd like to add that this request is a lost time because it will never be an objective possibility to calculate anything...

Having a payout about 98% (example) doesn't mean that if you deposit and play $100, you could lose maximum $2. Not at all! It simply means that casino bring you the possibility to lose maximum $2, but you can lose all your money if you won and if you continued to play until to lose all your money.

So, if a player miss the bj because he doesn't know how to play efficiently, payout still stays at 98%, but player would have lost all his money without making BJ at all or just few are blackjacks. What i'm meaning is that the number of BJ realized depends on the player quality, not on payout only. Did you know that?
Hand histories would mean we would not have to CALCULATE anything, we would have the ABSOLUTE TRUE NUMBER of Blackjacks that were dealt to players, and what the software paid out on them. You would then simply check each BJ to see whether or not it paid 3:2. Rival took ONE MONTH to do this:lolup::lolup:

It also seems YOU can do NOTHING, you are refering almost EVERYTHING up to Rival, even minor tasks such as getting player gaming logs out of the "back end".

Who did you say owns this casino?:rolleyes:

Eh! :eek:

Please do not go into this discussion, most of those who reads this thread is VERY aware of how Black Jack is supposed to be played and how it works.

If you get Black Jack at your casino it´s only if your first two cards(which you don´t pick/chose at all) gives you BJ.

You can´t in any way use your skills.

EDIT to add: You can´t chose not to have Black Jack if you know what I mean.
This was quite a blunder for the rep to even CONSIDER explaining away the low number of Blackjacks as being down to the lack of STRATEGY employed by players. Granted, the RTP DOES depend on how close to "perfect strategy" the game is played, BUT the number of Blackjacks dealt is going to be the SAME; lack of skill determines the outcomes of NON Blackjack hands, where the player makes choices based on their cards, and the dealer "up" card.

The perception I now get of the rep/owner is of someone who knows rather little about the "nuts & bolts" of running a casino, but who has money, and has merely invested it with a Rival run casino, hoping for a return on capital. Players would expect the OWNER of a casino to have at least a basic knowledge of the games offered, even if NOT of the software. I am even MORE surprised that in this scenario such operators had the power to tweak a game the owner didn't even fully understand the rules for. Rival have at least (so they tell us), taken away this option, and now require this to be done through Rival.

The perception may not be accurate, but what I am seeing in this thread is what I have to make a judgement from.
 

all4greed

Now we can do business.
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Location
Pacific NW
So, if a player miss the bj because he doesn't know how to play efficiently, payout still stays at 98%, but player would have lost all his money without making BJ at all or just few are blackjacks. What i'm meaning is that the number of BJ realized depends on the player quality, not on payout only. Did you know that?
Holy crap! There should be a 2010 list of the most ignorant things a casino rep can say and this should be number one.

Wow.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Holy crap! There should be a 2010 list of the most ignorant things a casino rep can say and this should be number one.

Wow.
Imagine......


Sit down at table, place chip, and you are dealt A, K. You are so bad at Blackjack that you look up at the dealer, AND SIGNAL FOR ANOTHER CARD:lolup: You just can't make it up:lolup:

Remember, this situation is IMPOSSIBLE in ANY software, since the option for the player to "cock-up" a pat dealt Ace & Face is just not there - the game ends, and the BJ is paid, or pushed if the dealer also gets Ace & Face (other than in a few exotic variants of the game).
 

all4greed

Now we can do business.
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Location
Pacific NW
Imagine......


Sit down at table, place chip, and you are dealt A, K. You are so bad at Blackjack that you look up at the dealer, AND SIGNAL FOR ANOTHER CARD:lolup: You just can't make it up:lolup:

Remember, this situation is IMPOSSIBLE in ANY software, since the option for the player to "cock-up" a pat dealt Ace & Face is just not there - the game ends, and the BJ is paid, or pushed if the dealer also gets Ace & Face (other than in a few exotic variants of the game).
Although this has nothing to do with Rival software, I did this little test at INetBet on pontoon. Why anyone would want to hit on a 21 is beyond me but it is possible. Is this one of the variants you referenced?
 

Jufo

Three-toed sloth
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Location
Finland
Although this has nothing to do with Rival software, I did this little test at INetBet on pontoon. Why anyone would want to hit on a 21 is beyond me but it is possible. Is this one of the variants you referenced?
On Blackjack someone might considering doubling down on pat Blackjack because a blackjack pays 1.5x bet but a successful double down pays 2x bet, so there is an extra 0.5x possible win. It's a bit strange that softwares don't allow this but live Blackjack tables at B&M casinos do.

However, on Pontoon doubling down on Pontoon (two card Soft 21) makes little sense as Pontoon already pays 2x bet. The only way to get a larger payout than 2x bet would be to get 5-card-trick but it is a longshot.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
On Blackjack someone might considering doubling down on pat Blackjack because a blackjack pays 1.5x bet but a successful double down pays 2x bet, so there is an extra 0.5x possible win. It's a bit strange that softwares don't allow this but live Blackjack tables at B&M casinos do.

However, on Pontoon doubling down on Pontoon (two card Soft 21) makes little sense as Pontoon already pays 2x bet. The only way to get a larger payout than 2x bet would be to get 5-card-trick but it is a longshot.
Pontoon is one of the "exotic variants" where you CAN play on after getting 21, and this is because the player might want to go for a 5 card trick. In Blackjack, a Blackjack dealt to the player automatically ends his turn, and the dealer hand is then ONLY played if the up card is either Ace or 10 in value, otherwise the player is paid there & then. Some softwares WILL play out the dealer hand, but this merely "burns" cards from the virtual shoe, it has no bearing on the outcome.

The real test is whether RIVAL software permits play beyond a pat dealt Blackjack, and if it DOES, the software should be considered "rogue" because it is breaking the rules for any "normal" Blackjack game, and the player simply CANNOT improve upon a Blackjack.
 

Jufo

Three-toed sloth
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Location
Finland
The real test is whether RIVAL software permits play beyond a pat dealt Blackjack, and if it DOES, the software should be considered "rogue" because it is breaking the rules for any "normal" Blackjack game, and the player simply CANNOT improve upon a Blackjack.
I haven't played BJ at Rival but in all likelihood a dealt blackjack is an automatic stand for the player.

As for the number of blackjacks given by Tradition rep, the probability of a winning blackjack in six deck game is 0.04526 = roughly 1 in 22 (source:
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). Simple Excel calculation shows that the probability to get only 19 or fewer winning blackjacks in 1954 hands played is zero. This means that there is 100% chance that the number provided by the rep is not correct, or the software is cheating. Even the probability to get 60 or fewer winning blackjacks in 1954 hands played is 0.00069 = 1 in 1455 chance. The should be at least 68 winning blackjacks in 1954 hands played for the result to be even remotely statistically valid.
 

binshakindown

Time sure flys
Joined
May 24, 2008
Location
CO
I noticed all the free chip bonus offers have evaporated

which is not a bad thing. It also appears to be very quiet on Rival's front and from what I can see it was expected this thread died. Any more developments Tradition? Were all the peeps reimbursed?
 

incrediblestuff

SearchingForTheHolyGrail!
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Location
Mostly the Netherlands
The OP was reimbursed, and tradition owner posted he /she reimbursed everyone affected, but that is not proven, only said.
JHV posted he was reimbursed to his surprise, and rivals were taken of the accredited list anyway, thats all thats happened in a nutshell
 

kenneth2816

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Location
North Carolina
This post is merely an *opinion*, and we all know what those are worth. My impression of Rival and its evil twin Top Game is that they saw an open playing field when Microgmaing left the US market, and perhaps they believed that less competition meant less scrutiny. Or does anyone believe Micro did not dominate the US market?

Personally, I've read enough (not just here) that I would not deposit at either brand.

On the other hand RTG sure seems to be adapting........
 

ergopro

Experienced Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
So this era of Tradition Casino ends...they went belly up. Got an affiliate announcement from them.

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT 22th MAY 2010

Dear affiliates,

Foremost, we deeply apologize for this brutal announcement. Rival Gaming, the Tradition casino software provider is responsible for all banking transactions: our company has never had any agreement with any payment processor. Last months activity decreased because of processing problems both in U.S. and Europe that Rival Gaming did not anticipate, nor resolve.

As you know, the game industry is a sector that is both highly competitive and have unstable legal terms: first, our society can not continue to pay winnings players considering that player have received a match bonus on his deposit and that his deposit amount that enabled this winning has been blocked by a bank named X or Y... Until today, we paid all our players.

In addition, if your own players deposited and if these deposits are held by the bank, we are not able to pay you any commission, although, like us, you worked hard. We can not endure this situation.

Last, we can not stand to see dying Tradition casino by lack of support from the majority of our affiliates members. That said, we can not blame you, you expect a financial return as the fruit of your work, exactly as us.

Tradition casino has been created in order to give us the opportunity to prove that an online casino could establish a trusted relationship with players and affiliates, with transparency, and with all the love for this profession that characterized each member of our team. Therefore, given that we do not want to cheat nor "shave" your stats and/or stop pay our winners, we decided to stop the bleeding by stopping now our activity.

However, we waited several months before taking this decision, we also tried to find common ground with Rival. Unfortunately, no agreement and no viable solution has been presented to us, therefore we don't have any other choice but to cease Tradition Casino.

Igaming.pro website will be online until June 5th Igaming.pro, like this you will continue to access to your statistics and we really hope that, in the future, Rival Gaming will honor its commitments with you, better than they have done with us.

Although Tradition casino is already offline, your existing players can still continue to play and you are still cumuling earnings. However, please immediately stop sending any traffic on Tradition Casino website. Rival Gaming has already bought a domain name related to our name "Tradition Casino", so it means that Rival have a clear idea about the strategy they want to adopt with players and affiliates.

Our approach has often seemed unusual, we know this. There was gale of laughter and some conflicts as well; please keep make the most of this situation and do not forget that we did our best. Until 5th June you can still leave us your comments, simply send us an email : affiliates@igaming.pro.

We apologize again for the inconvenience and we wish you continued success in your business affiliation.

Thank you for your trust.

Warmest regards,


Igaming.pro Team
"Better die a beggar, than live a beggar."
 
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dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
First Slotpower walks from Rival accusing Rival of being at fault, now Tradition does.

I thought Rival had solved it's processing issues - apparently not.
 

bb1webs

Webmaster
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
BondedCasinos.com
Hi all,

like other casinos (not all), treat their players with little appreciation or respect
I just wanted to agree with the above and note it again in hopes maybe some casino manager will have it sink in because obviously it is something still not fully understood to as the writer stated, not all, but certainly a share of casinos.


read enough (not just here) that I would not deposit at either brand.

On the other hand RTG sure seems to be adapting........
Nothing to say but agree with top game, however I've had a quality experience with box24 so far, and I think betus is also rival, whom I imagine are pretty decent about their approach.

I can't speak on the blackjack, just that my experience with the slots have been (... sometimes crappy), but other times quite nice so I would play them again .. but I would stick to a select few of rivals.

And that due to ease getting paid by 24 and that all else fails, I have a contact with 24 whom is ever-gaining my confidence.

..........

Agree with RTG, I've always felt they had very good software, and were adaptable , its just that there is always something that comes along and prevents them from being .... a MGS.

Anyway,... I came here to see how everyone liked the new mystery software for the MGS casinos (for US players) , so I'm off to find that.
 

Suave

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
Europe
What happened to this horrible sham tradition casino operation? When you hit download there you get the winpalace application which is rtg software? :confused:
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
The casino still works but Rival is operating it themselves. The former manager obiously owns the webpage and gets affiliate income for sending players to winpalace instead.
 

Suave

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
Europe
Really a sham operations run by amateurs until the end. So if a player goes to the site, checks and likes those silly bonuses, downloads, he'll get a total different casino software and promotions, terms etc? :eek:
They could have done something much more informative, cleaner and not as misleading, as barakacasino have done when closing. Old habits die hard I suppose. :rolleyes:
 

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