Roguish Tradition Casino and likely all Rival casinos are Rogue. All Evidence shown here.

[AussieDave]

Please be advised that our latest TST report has been completed and the certificate is now available on the Ruby Royal site

That lastest audit includes 5 months of game play.

The previous included 3 months of game play.

Anything less than monthly game play audits means nothing. And while here I'll spell out why...

Over a 5 month period the games could very well be tweaked within periods that would yield sub standard deviation in accepted % returns.

Yet these sub standard variations in % game returns could easily be hidden over such a large window in game auditing.

IMHO anyone who thanks Ruby Royal for this audit really needs to look at why they think this is so great.


Cheers



Dave

 

[maphesto]

Anything less than monthly game play audits means nothing. And while here I'll spell out why...

Over a 5 month period the games could very well be tweaked within periods that would yield sub standard deviation in accepted % returns.

Yet these sub standard variations in % game returns could easily be hidden over such a large window in game auditing.

Of course you are right! The best thing to do is having a daily control of every game.

IMHO anyone who thanks Ruby Royal for this audit really needs to look at why they think this is so great.

I really hope you aren´t referring to the "thank you" button which is there to give us the possibility to thank for a useful post?

Because I think the post itself is VERY useful.

I commented it as well.

93.75% payout on slots BEFORE all those crappy "max cashout" bonuses does it´s job is interesting.

If they on most slots claim an estimated RTP of 95-96% there is something wrong.

 

[4 of a kind]

Please be advised that our latest TST report has been completed and the certificate is now available on the Ruby Royal site on the following page:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Wow, thanks RubRoyal for that impertinent information. An audit you get to choose who does it, and voluntarily paid for. I'm gonna empty my savings account and rush over to your site. Please, these audits mean about as much as what ever Tradition has to say. ZERO

I think most of us would rather read about the gaming regulations that allegedly should be enforced on your casino. Where could we read about them? Obviously when you said quote "The reason there was not an audit for the last few months is that it completely feel off the radar on my huge list of priorities" tells us there is no enforcement, since you can do it when you remember to, and you think it might improve business.

Me and many others know that your audit and all others supplied from online casinos should be flushed down the toilet, where it will end up with the rest of the decaying shit, and where our money ended up without a fair chance for trusting you in the first place.

By the way since this thread is about the crooks at Tradition, we're all very much still looking forward to your review results and your next line of bullshit.

 

[4 of a kind]

Tuesday will be three weeks and no response from Tradition. I could only guess their software hard-drives must be bigger then Goggles...

And of course with the crude responses here especially mine, they would have grounds to declare "Abuse" and refusal to respond here, besides why ruin the fade-away thread.

 

[tradition]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

 

[RobWin]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

You better put on your "Fire Suit" now...
____
____

 

[LaurieJim]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

"That We Had To Pay Him!!! WTF ", shouldnt it have been worded, We owed him as a player that we ripped off ? Whats up with putting the personal account numbers , tho they havent the names, except Sams, uncool imo

Laurie

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

So, each and every one of these players were ONLY "ripped off" on ONE Blackjack during their play on this game OVER A MONTH!!

This game also seems VERY unpopular, else there would be a whole string of mispayments.

Maybe we need an INDEPENDENT audit of ALL play on this game. Firstly, to determine when Blackjacks started being underpayed, and secondly to determine the total number of underpayed Blackjacks till the problem was fixed.

I simply cannot believe that SO FEW players/hands were affected without supporting evidence from an independent audit.

 

[RedAndi]

List is probably just people who noticed and complained (and if ya didn't you are shit outta luck).....

 

[LaurieJim]

$124.30 ( if my math is right ) sure wasnt alot to payback, i just wonder how much revenue they(Tradition) lost, was it worth the $124.30 to cheat players ?

Laurie

 

[all4greed]

$124.30 ( if my math is right ) sure wasnt alot to payback, i just wonder how much revenue they(Tradition) lost, was it worth the $124.30 to cheat players ?

Laurie

And by looking at those individual numbers, doesn't appear there were a lot of blackjacks. Or am I missing something?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

And by looking at those individual numbers, doesn't appear there were a lot of blackjacks. Or am I missing something?

Yes, why would one who has even with a minuscle (sp) understanding of Blackjack trust Rival Gaming for Blackjack. I repeat, not that it is worth anything, the OP's post and subsequent posts is old news to a few. Carry On!

 

[KasinoKing]

And by looking at those individual numbers, doesn't appear there were a lot of blackjacks. Or am I missing something?

Don't you think it's quite likely that if you were playing blackjack and only got paid 1:1 for a BJ that you would notice pretty quickly and stop playing?
The figures posted look about right to me - in fact I was a bit surprised that Tradition had that many people playing blackjack in the first place!

KK

 

[bgermain1985]

These days, I just cant help thinking that they lost the plot somewhere along the way and blew the chance to be a serious competitor for MGS and RTG.

Amen to that :notworthy:

 

[Dinahnana]

That lastest audit includes 5 months of game play.

The previous included 3 months of game play.

Anything less than monthly game play audits means nothing. And while here I'll spell out why...

Over a 5 month period the games could very well be tweaked within periods that would yield sub standard deviation in accepted % returns.

Yet these sub standard variations in % game returns could easily be hidden over such a large window in game auditing.

IMHO anyone who thanks Ruby Royal for this audit really needs to look at why they think this is so great.


Cheers



Dave

Well know I know why I can't ever get any decent game play from Ruby Royal.

As Maphesto pointed out most of the slots have an average payout between 96 and 98% with only a couple under that so having less than 96% for a 10 month period (according to Ruby royal's own report) is a little fishy to me. I am not an expert but that does not add up to a fair game in my opinion.

 

[all4greed]

Don't you think it's quite likely that if you were playing blackjack and only got paid 1:1 for a BJ that you would notice pretty quickly and stop playing?

Not necessarily. If I play BJ, it's multihand and I don't check to see what it pays, just move on to the next hand. But I'm assuming it paid correctly. And I tend to play fast. So seeing what was posted, I don't buy into the assumption that people saw it was paying incorrectly and moved on. I am leaning more towards those numbers were made up to make it look lower.

Call me skeptical...

 

[tradition]

I still apologize for what happened but I won't provide players names, sorry : it's private.

But, as requested, here you are detailled hands :

"User", "Trans ID", "Winnings", "Paid", "Difference"

"Hand Description",

1801353,1682815670, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Ah,Jc:2s,4c|1|0|1",

2121210,1730477418, 4.5, 1.5, 3
"3|As,Qs:Ac,3d|1|1.5|1",

2130056,1726990262, 7.5, 5, 2.5
"5|Jc,Ac:Tc,Qd|1|0|1",

2148975,1835561797, 0.5, 0, 0.5
"1,1|6d,Th;Ah,Ts:2s,7h,Th|1,1|0,0|2",

2313340,1729260321, 3, 2, 1
"2|Jh,Ad:3h,Ts|1|0|1",

2627524,1700687893, 15, 10, 5
"10|Td,Ah:9d,Th|1|0|1",

2647271,1791686952, 4, 3, 1
"1,1,1|7h,8d;Jc,Ah;Ad,Th:Th,6d,7h|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1795900273, 1, 0, 1
"2,2,2|Jc,Ah;Ac,7h;Kc,Tc:Jc,Qs|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1799609890, 2.5, 2, 0.5
"1,1|Ad,Js;Td,4d:2c,9d,2d,9c|1,1|0,0|2",

2647271,1804615253, 3.5, 3, 0.5
"1,1,1|Ah,Qs;6c,7c;8s,Js:9c,4c,Kh|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1804770312, 10, 7.5, 2.5
"10,5,5|Js,Kd;As,Tc;Jh,3h:5h,As,Qh,5d|1,1,1|0,0,0|3"

2647271,1804772135, 7.5, 5, 2.5
"5,5,5|Qd,7h;Ah,Qh;7d,Tc:8s,2h,7h|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1807265300, 7, 3.5, 3.5
"7,7,7|5h,Qh;Tc,4c;Qc,Ac:Ts,9d|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2675820,1808126199, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Js,Ac:7h,Jh|1|0|1",

2675820,1809551117, 3, 2, 1
"2|Td,Ad:2c,4s|1|0|1",

2675820,1838092434, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Tc,As:4h,Td|1|0|1",

2675820,1838092972, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Ad,Qd:3h,Kc|1|0|1",

2786655,1839688519, 250, 200, 50
"100,100|Js,Kc;Ah,Ks:5s,Jd,9h|1,1|0,0|2",

2786655,1841311611, 150, 100, 50
"100|As,Ts:Ks,Th|1|0|1",

If SamD seems to have very high amount compared to other players it's only because he played huge hands on this game : he wagered minimum $100 per hand and maximum $400.

So, all other players played with lower amounts and wagered minimum $2 per hand and maximum $15, so their amounts won have nothing to do with SamD winnings.

As you can imagine, in a new casino as Tradition, proportion of chance to have such highroller as SamD is very low, most of our players only play to slots and table games players are very rare. Then, i think we don't have a lot of players whom are playing at table games because most of our bonuses are not valid for table games.

FYI, in March, we have had 1,954 hands played on normal Blackjack and 965 hands played on Multi hands. But in March, we have had 8,925,827 total hands played in our casino (all games included).

So, you can imagine that Tradition didn't have any interest to voluntarily change payouts on Blackjack considering that this game is rarely played, that we use to not give bonuses on it and that we never have had big winners on it. SamD played on slots and blackjack both and even if he played huge hands on blackjack, he earned aproximatively 2.5 times his deposits, so he's not a big winner at all... His winnings came from slots, not from Blackjack.

Last, the only one player whom noticed us about the payout blackjack problem is SamD and we made the change immediately, as SamD can confirm. If an other player than SamD had wrote us regarding the same problem, our reaction would have been the same and we would have make the change immediately : we don't have any interest to have a payout different from our felt and we don't have interest to have low payouts on this game especially, it's stupid.

I don't remember whom said here that Tradition lost more than it earned regarding this payout problem... I would like just confirm that "yes". It's fully true. Tradition is probably the first online casino to be classed rogue about $125...

Gambling licence don't depends on me directly but depends on Rival and i'm paying Rival for having a fair software. If i wanted organise independants audits from software, differents from those provided by Rival itself, i wouldn't have made the choice to choose a white label : i would have taken an independant casino with my own licence, as Slotocash's option, by example.

In conclusion, regarding this whole situation : i cannot do more than i already done. All players have been contacted and recovered incorrect amounts paid, i apologized, payouts have been changed, my casino has been classed rogue on Casinomeister because of these incorrect $125 winnings paid and i provided you full list of players concerned + hands played. And i put my "fire suit"...

 

[Pinababy69]

FYI, in March, we have had 1,954 hands played on normal Blackjack and 965 hands played on Multi hands.

So 2,919 hands altogether....and out of almost 3,000 hands, there were less than twenty blackjacks? Wow...yeah, that seems accurate.

And KK, for you to say that such a small number of BJ's seems accurate and/or right, pretty much blows my mind.

Last, the only one player whom noticed us about the payout blackjack problem is SamD and we made the change immediately, as SamD can confirm. If an other player than SamD had wrote us regarding the same problem, our reaction would have been the same and we would have make the change immediately :

The lies flow so freely, don't they? It wasn't one player, and SamD wasn't the first. And you didn't fix it "immediately", even in his case. Refre/Freddy experienced the "rigged" version, a FULL MONTH prior to SamD....and has the emails/live chats to confirm this. NOTHING was done about it. Lies, lies, lies. And people wonder why I hate Rival with a passion?

I had the exact same problem at Tradition casino the 22. of last month.
Of course I realize now I should have posted here back then.
They claimed "we have made some updates to ensure that this does not occur again". Obviously they didn't.

Freddy

Hiya Pina. I'm afraid the screenshot is lost.
But I do have e-mails / live chats confirming the malfunction.
I'll see if I can find a screenshot of the hand history.

They did send me a few small bonuses to make up for their mistake.
I didn't make a big deal about it since I was playing with a ND bonus in the first palce.

Update:

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Freddy

 

[tradition]

Pinababy, I don't know who is freddy and i even don't know if this player is included in the list provided by rival.

I can only confirm that about 2010-02-22 an update has been made by Rival on normal blackjack and an other update has been made by Rival too about 2010-03-27 on Blackjack Multi-Hand.

So we simply need to know who is Freddy, at what game he played exactly and if he receieved an email from us last 4 days...

If this player is not listed or if he has not been contacted with exact detail of transactions + apologizes, i'd be VERY surprise....

Regarding the fact that you hate Rival, i'm affraid that i cannot help you. Hatred is a very deep feeling.

 

[Nifty29]

So 2,919 hands altogether....and out of almost 3,000 hands, there were less than twenty blackjacks? Wow...yeah, that seems accurate.

And KK, for you to say that such a small number of BJ's seems accurate and/or right, pretty much blows my mind.

Well thats about a 0.006% BJ rate. Pina, you are right - it doesnt sound right to me either.

I dont know the exact chances of hitting a BJ but I know it is more than that - maybe a resident BJ expert could chime in here?

Ive said this before, but I really really wish Tradition would have someone proof read their posts before they are posted. I know French is her first language, and by her own admission her English isnt great, but it is so important to be clear and concise when communicating as a Casino Rep in public. I have seen so many posts where Tradition has been jumped on through no fault of her own, other than poor choice of word/phrase which has conveyed the wrong meaning. In fact, Ive seen some nasty exchanges which started with such an occurrence.

Tradition is to be commended for being here personally as the casino owner, which isnt the norm, and for attempting to answer as many questions as possible......credit where it is due. Personally, I feel it would be so much better if she owned the licence, as many issues cannot be resolved by her as she only has limited control.

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

 

[tradition]

Nifty, hands list i provided you include normal and multi hand blackjack both.

I don't know exact chance to hit blackjack but 2,919 hands played in march concerned normal blackjack and payouts issue was resolved since 2010-02-22. So in march, all hands played at normal blackjacks are ok. Regarding hands played at multi hand blackjack : there were 965 hands played in march, so there is still less hands than normal blackjack.

I didn't found that accounts number were personal due to the fact that there is not possibilitie to retrieve players only with these numbers, excepted for me and my employees, of course. Regarding winnings informations given on SamD, i wanted only bring light about questions on his amounts were very superiors to amounts won by other players.

Last, regarding my english, i'm a bit surprise because sometimes players blamed me because they thought that my english was good enough for reading & understanding all entire posts and now, you are implying that my english is not good. For sure, i can understand that a fluent english will be nicer here and would help your readability, but i made this choice to manage personally problems with players. Even with such decision, i'm not fully aware about all in my own casino, as you could noticed it.... Having intermediar could create more misunderstandings, i'm affraid... Please be sure that i try to do my best about this point.

About gambling licence, for sure, if i were the owner of my licence, things will be differents and i would have probably organized some aditionals audits : unfortunately, it's not the case, licence & reports are provided by Rival and i'm not ready at all for pay twice the same service....

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Well thats about a 0.006% BJ rate. Pina, you are right - it doesnt sound right to me either.

I dont know the exact chances of hitting a BJ but I know it is more than that - maybe a resident BJ expert could chime in here?

Ive said this before, but I really really wish Tradition would have someone proof read their posts before they are posted. I know French is her first language, and by her own admission her English isnt great, but it is so important to be clear and concise when communicating as a Casino Rep in public. I have seen so many posts where Tradition has been jumped on through no fault of her own, other than poor choice of word/phrase which has conveyed the wrong meaning. In fact, Ive seen some nasty exchanges which started with such an occurrence.

Tradition is to be commended for being here personally as the casino owner, which isnt the norm, and for attempting to answer as many questions as possible......credit where it is due. Personally, I feel it would be so much better if she owned the licence, as many issues cannot be resolved by her as she only has limited control.

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

Considering a 3 to 2, 6 to 5, 1 to 1, 0 to -1 ,lol, Blackjack will occur every 1 out of ~ 21 hands or 4.76%, I need to the read recent thread posts to catch up on this obvious inaccurate discrepancy which would be so blatantly obvious to the player, this discrepancy (too many standard deviations) would have made the EH and AP scandals/whatever, qualify for Triple AAA Accreditation. (sarcastic exageration bolded).

And oh the irony of mathematical BJ determinations that can be determined. Nevermind, a higher level of cheating where all mathematical determinations are simply labeled a glitch, malfunction, and/or with an officially accepted KK endorsed apology by a casino rep. (sorry KK but I do not get this apology thing or actually I do), seems to excuse the inexcusable aka double standards.

All the to be ignored above said (you are correct frienemy,),
I culled some BJ stats from my audited play which "as is" certainly indicate the game "at the time" was distributing BJ's as expected.

TOTAL HANDS 50001 TO 97140=47140 TOTAL HANDS

TOTAL DEALER BLACKJACKS=2215
TOTAL DEALER BLACKJACKS EXPECTATION=2244.76

TOTAL PLAYER BLACKJACKS=2226
TOTAL PLAYER BLACKJACKS EXPECTATION=2244.76


Notes: 1. I personally audited so numbers may be off a number or two but not significant, 2. there were some discrepancies between some culled "real time" hands and "non real time" hand histories (3 years and Rival still advertises all hands realtime access but as is provided by Rival simply is incorrect and false so I do not care whether "Pilot" or "Passenger" error., all is simply inexcusable by Rival and if a 'ponderance of evidence applied to this Rival outfit, Rival would have been finished long ago.), 3. DID RIVAL MAKE A CODE CHANGE AT SOME POINT???????????????, regardless, there is no reason to believe this has anything to do with the past or current number of BJ's though as one should be trying to find that needle in a haystack, not a basketball going through the goal!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

Disregard, my bad!

 

[jod5413]

Ive said this before, but I really really wish Tradition would have someone proof read their posts before they are posted. I know French is her first language, and by her own admission her English isnt great, but it is so important to be clear and concise when communicating as a Casino Rep in public. I have seen so many posts where Tradition has been jumped on through no fault of her own, other than poor choice of word/phrase which has conveyed the wrong meaning. In fact, Ive seen some nasty exchanges which started with such an occurrence.

Tradition is to be commended for being here personally as the casino owner, which isnt the norm, and for attempting to answer as many questions as possible......credit where it is due. Personally, I feel it would be so much better if she owned the licence, as many issues cannot be resolved by her as she only has limited control.

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

I have to agree strongly with you, Nifty, on the language issue. I DO believe this woman is trying her best, I DO believe she has gotten in over her head, I DO believe she is getting more than enough flak for her shortcomings. I DO remember other software "problems" with both RTG and MG, and they are still around.

I do not hate Rival, I still believe it is a close third behind MG and RTG. I hope that Tradition can better their reputation as time goes by. If not, so be it.

I can't believe I am saying this. Nash, even though you speak in foreign tongues, I do believe you have had many valid points in all your experiences playing on line, and have done your best to show us.

 

[refre]

Hi there, Casino tradition contacted me yesterday:

Hi,

Unfortunately, one of your blackjack hands has not been paid to you properly.

Transaction ID : 1726990262
Detailled transaction : 5|Jc,Ac:Tc,Qd|1|0|1

This transaction has been paid 5 instead of 07/05/10, so we owe you 02/05/10. Regularization has been made and your winnings are waiting for you in your account.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Warmest regards,

Manager,

€17 was put in my account.

These are the details of the hand (as posted previously)

Attach Removed (Old not found)

Freddy