This is so wrong...

rma20

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Location
Earth
Ok I was looking on another site about online gambling...and came across a guys post talking about neteller, click2pay and firepay. Basically he said he ran up 7500 at neteller...and he did not have the money in his bank account to cover it so he went to close it. And then he is saying he doesn't have to pay neteller? That didn't make sense to me? Then he did the same thing to click2pay he ran up 10000 used a new bank account and then closed the account before the funds tried to come out. He is saying he just doesn't have to pay it now because the bank account was closed. How is this possible? I think that is BS because I use neteller and they have your information and everything. Wouldn't they come after you for the money? He was trying to say he doesn't have to pay them because the bank account is closed. That didn't seem to make sense to me. Wouldn't they send it to a collections agency or worse sue him? I don't really know the whole legal part of things but it would seem like he would not just get off from having to pay these people back. Have any of you ever heard of people running up charges like that and then getting off? I just think that is so wrong!
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
rma20 said:
Ok I was looking on another site about online gambling...and came across a guys post talking about neteller, click2pay and firepay. Basically he said he ran up 7500 at neteller...and he did not have the money in his bank account to cover it so he went to close it. And then he is saying he doesn't have to pay neteller? That didn't make sense to me? Then he did the same thing to click2pay he ran up 10000 used a new bank account and then closed the account before the funds tried to come out. He is saying he just doesn't have to pay it now because the bank account was closed. How is this possible? I think that is BS because I use neteller and they have your information and everything. Wouldn't they come after you for the money? He was trying to say he doesn't have to pay them because the bank account is closed. That didn't seem to make sense to me. Wouldn't they send it to a collections agency or worse sue him? I don't really know the whole legal part of things but it would seem like he would not just get off from having to pay these people back. Have any of you ever heard of people running up charges like that and then getting off? I just think that is so wrong!


If he lives in the USA and isn't just talking BS, he'll be facing felony charges soon and probably getting some years in jail for just what it is....FRAUD (or more detailed, writing checks against a closed account)
 

brianzz

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Location
TN
Re: nawt

The US federal government says gambling debts aren't prosecutable (my own word) and are a civil matter.
 

blubber

Dormant account
Joined
May 12, 2006
Location
Mojave
How can you run up money on Neteller and Click2pay? I didn't know they gave credit. Is it with instacash?
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
They don't give credit.

Neteller, Firepay, click2pay, etc simply take your word that the funds are available. They don't check your bank account to see if the money is actually there before they submit it to the bank.

ps: yes, using InstaCash
 

rma20

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Location
Earth
winbig...thats what I was thinking. I didn't see how he could jsut get away with just closing the bank account before all the transactions hit. I mean they have his info I would guess. And yes I think he is from the USA..

blubber ~I am not sure exactly how it all works. But i think he said he got a good credit limit with those companies. I am not sure how he could do that either that is why I posted here about it because I just didn't see how he could do that.

Well I thought his whole situation sounded odd. And um its a little scary that he thought he could blow 17500 and not be held accountable for it. My guess is they will send his stuff to a collection agency or something...to try to get the debt.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
rma20 said:
blubber ~I am not sure exactly how it all works. But i think he said he got a good credit limit with those companies.

I don't think there's transaction limit(s) for using instacash. I guess click2pay is the same.


rma20 said:
Well I thought his whole situation sounded odd. And um its a little scary that he thought he could blow 17500 and not be held accountable for it. My guess is they will send his stuff to a collection agency or something...to try to get the debt.


Addictions do crazy things to people.
 

Darem1

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Location
Florida
This is so wrong

This fellow needs to go to jail! He will hurt all of us because if you don't use instacash where the casino covers the fee and you have to deposit first to Neteller, there is a substantial service charge. I don't see how he could have run up such a large amount. I use Neteller and when you first start out you are giving a $3,000 deposit limit for a rolling seven days. Now I am talking cash here since I am in the States and they won't take our credit cards.
Once a certain amount has cleared your bank, I can't remember if it is $7,500 or $10,000 you can request a limit increase to $5,000. I don't know how restrictive they are after that, but to get to the level he claims he must have deposited a huge amount with Neteller that did clear his bank account.
Anyway, that's how Neteller works. I hate to hear about the cheats, scammers, and spammers. In the end they only hurt the rest of us who are trying to eck out a bit of spending money and have a good time. And someone so insolent to not only do it but brag about it! It is like saying, look at me, I am a lowlife piece of chit who is out for all I can get and I don't care who I hurt. Scum! :mad:
 

pacers31

Banned Used - Repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Location
Californication
Wow, that's alot of cash. I guess that is where the "trust" factor comes in with online wagering as it stands now. We have to trust that the site we deposit at will pay us when we win, and the site has to trust us that we will pay when we lose! I know that in Illinois gambling debts are not enforceable in court. Trust really is a difficult thing for both parties when it comes to online gambling.
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
Whole thing sounds like nonsense... Only because, had he won, how was he intending to cash out? Or was it just for fun? If so - why not just play with a guest account? Whole thing seems a bit pointless as you can't profit from it as such, and you're not receiving a 'product'.

I'm not sure how you could ever fund (and spend) from a Neteller account until the funds are cleared either - plus a bank won't let you close an account with 'pending' transactions...

Basically - none of it adds up.
 

unicorn40

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Location
Ontario, Canada....
I'm not sure how you could ever fund (and spend) from a Neteller account until the funds are cleared either - plus a bank won't let you close an account with 'pending' transactions...


Neteller has "InstaCash".You can spend it right away.You can get instant cash up to a certain amount.Once you have reached your Neteller limit, you need to wait till some funds clear.....to get more.If you take your limit out in one day, Neteller won't know it's NSF for a few days.....

It must be the same kind of thing with the bank.He opened an account one day,just for the scam.Then closed it again before the bank new there was any transactions going to go through?I've never done that so i don't know.
 

winbig

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Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I really don't see how this could have happened myself, after thinking about it.

With the Neteller limits, after the first (let's say $3k) came back as NSF from the bank, there's NO WAY he could have made any more transactions above this.

In Re: Being criminally liable for gambling debt against a closed checking account:

If the account was already closed, or if you closed the account before the transactions went through, I believe you can be prosecuted for it, no matter what the checks were for. Neteller would have to pursue that line of action if they felt like it. Whether they would or not, who knows. I'm sure it'd be better PR for them if they didn't, so if this in fact did happen, he's lucky.
 

winbig

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Joined
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Location
Pennsylvania
unicorn40 said:
Neteller has "InstaCash".You can spend it right away.You can get instant cash up to a certain amount.Once you have reached your Neteller limit, you need to wait till some funds clear.....to get more.If you take your limit out in one day, Neteller won't know it's NSF for a few days.....

It must be the same kind of thing with the bank.He opened an account one day,just for the scam.Then closed it again before the bank new there was any transactions going to go through?I've never done that so i don't know.

I think they were talking about actually *getting* the money from Neteller (if they actually tried to cashout from the casino) before the deposits to the casino cleared the bank (still showing up as 'pending'). If so, this is 100% true....it can't be done.
 

Renegade

Dormant account
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
USA
That guy needs to go to jail for a very, very long time!!!!:mad:

What a piece of chit!!!!!

It's idiots like that that make it so hard for us in this business.:mad:

This person needs to be taken out back for a nice state wide stoning...And I mean Stoning like in the old days!!
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
I don't think there's transaction limit(s) for using instacash.
Actually there is a limit that is set by Neteller from the initial opening the account to how long a member and when an increase can be made to the account to use as "instacash".

I have had Neteller for a few years now and just recently they allowed me to "up" my weekly funding for "instacash" by $500.
They don't check your bank account to see if the money is actually there before they submit it to the bank.
This is not true to a point.

The initial process as most know that use this feature and use "instacash" is that you must have 3 deposits go through the account normally (3 day wait before you can use the funds you sent in to Neteller) then you are allowed to use the "instacash" feature.

They have a limit as to what you can us for instant funding until you have proven yourself and just like a credit card...a ways down the road they ask if you like to up the limit available for funding. They would never allow funds this large to be wagered unless the account was an established one for a long time.IMHO>
 

winbig

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Location
Pennsylvania
silcnlayc said:
The initial process as most know that use this feature and use "instacash" is that you must have 3 deposits go through the account normally (3 day wait before you can use the funds you sent in to Neteller) then you are allowed to use the "instacash" feature.


??? Did they just change this? I never ran into a 3 day wait period to access funds in the beginning, and if I remember right, they had actually said on the site that you can use instacash before your account was verified....
 

silcnlayc

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??? Did they just change this? I never ran into a 3 day wait period to access funds in the beginning
Nope, always been there...see an excerpt of conditions below:

instaCASH
Use instaCASH to transfer funds from your checking account to your NETELLER Account. Instantly. First, Register your checking account with NETELLER. You can transfer funds as soon as we verify your bank account. In many cases, this will occur immediately; in some cases, it may take up to 2 working days. As soon as instaCASH becomes available to you, you can access up to $750 US (or equivalent). The more instaCASH transactions you clear with us, the higher the instaCASH limit you qualify for.

Verification
If NETELLER cannot verify your identity, we will make a small deposit to your bank account (deposits will arrive in 1-5 working days). When you learn what this amount is, sign into your NETELLER Account, click on Verify Your Bank Account, and enter the amount as prompted. You can access instaCASH as soon as you enter the correct amount.
 

rma20

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Location
Earth
Ok maybe I can explain a little more. Basically yes he used click2pay and neteller for awhile. Well after using it for a while he got a credit limit through instacash up towards 7500 and I am assuming the same thing happened at click2pay. Ok so he knew the transactions were going to hit his bank but it usually takes a day or two for them to come out. Well he went and closed the bank account before they even tried to come out of the bank account. And I am assuming it was sent back to his bank saying the bank account was closed. But my whole point was no matter if his bank account was closed or not he would still owe neteller/click2pay whoever the money. thats why I don't understand how he says he doesn't have to pay them a dime? Like I said when you sign up they have your address your info etc. Well then another guy posted on his thread that a similar thing happened to him he overspent a lot basically wrote 5000 worth of bad checks. But he took actions and wanted to pay it. So they sent it to a collections agency and he is paying monthly. But what I don't understand is how the first guy thinks he will just get off? It doesn't matter if you close the bank account or not you are still responsible for the debt. I just thought this was so crazy! Honestly I think he should just be in trouble in the first place for lying to the bank about his checkbook being stolen. Isn't this whole thing called fraud?...scary :eek2:
 

cipher

Banned member - being a jerk
Joined
May 15, 2002
Location
Visalia, California
brianzz said:
The US federal government says gambling debts aren't prosecutable (my own word) and are a civil matter.

Hi brianzz:

I think you might want to check that out, because the statement is patently false and you can take that to the bank.

Have a good one.
 

venetian

Full Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Oklahoma
Not to mention, wouldn't Neteller contact the mercahant (the casino) and have his account frozen? That way any winnings that he had in his account would go to them first. Pointless to screw your lender.
 

LisasLuck

Dormant Account
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Location
southern california
If this person closed his bank account to avoid paying any outstanding checks or uncleared debits ...he has commited fraud ....same as writing checks against a closed account .... its a federal offense I believe.

does he say he plans to claim he never authroized these charges or something ???

neteller has a way to track the exact location from which the purchases originated so that wont work either....

he is dreamin if he thinks he is not going to have to PAY...one way or another he will pay ....

I wonder if he sleeps well at night? :mad:
 

winbig

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Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
More than likely Neteller will just eat the money if this guy never intends to pay, instead of spending just as much, if not more, than what they're owed to prosecute.

One reason being the controversial PR they'd recieve over it, second being the backlash over HR4777, thus adding fuel to that fire.
 

maaster

Dormant Account
webmeister
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Location
utrecht, netherlands
Neteller will probably get their money cause the guy is living in the US..
Thats why they dont allow users from other countrys to use Instacash.

For me it is impossible to use instacash because i am living in Holland (i upgraded neteller to Premier but the instacash function isn't available)

Even after begging neteller support ;)
 

oldmanhank

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Location
USA
Neteller will get their money. Bank fraud is a very serious crime. It doesn't matter that the money was used for gambling; That would be a non-issue in court. Neteller is a financial institution, not a casino.

The costs to neteller would be minimal and they would be able to get those costs back in judgement from the fraudster anyway. It isn't that expensive to take someone to court for NSF checks. I believe the US bank that he used will also file fraud charges against him as well.

The person may or may not serve jail time depending on history/plea. They will probably garnish paychecks/tax refunds and could even raid other US bank accounts and secure payment through other assets of the fraudster depending on how/where it is prosecuted.

Our laws are set up to ensure the integrity of the banking system. The bank is going to get paid their money, one way or another.
 

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