Think slots are rigged? Read this first...

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Please send me the YouTube link.

Just sent you link

 

[trancemonkey]

If you read my post again I stated I know of a company that used it in the past. I never said at this moment in time. Therefore I can’t state for sure that they do now. Only surmise that it’s highly likely. The reason I won’t go into more depth publicly is that due to the complexity of how I got this information they would immediately know who I am. I like to sleep at night if you know what I mean. You obviously don’t have to believe a word I say. Why would you? There does seem to be a little bit of double standards here though @trancemonkey as in we are expected to believe everything you say (and I believe you are genuine) but you make statements defending the randomness of slots as if you are speaking on behalf of the entire industry then by your own admission state that there is rigged software out there and you can’t speak for everyone. The problem for us then is we don’t know who’s “at it” and who isn’t. Still waiting for a reply on the millionaire question.

I think you'll find that I've always stated that I can only speak for companies I've worked for, or those that I know of or know employees of. Which is a lot of companies. I have never, ever stated that every single company in the world is whiter than white. What I can say though is that all the points in this thread (first post) are facts and questions you should consider.

Also, you state you know of one company that did. But most of the threads on here state that ALL slots are rigged and we all somehow work together to rig everything. So even if you could prove one did (and I have knowledge of stuff in the past too... before we became highly regulated), it doesn't mean all are.

 

[snorky510238]

I think you'll find that I've always stated that I can only speak for companies I've worked for, or those that I know of or know employees of. Which is a lot of companies. I have never, ever stated that every single company in the world is whiter than white. What I can say though is that all the points in this thread (first post) are facts and questions you should consider.

Also, you state you know of one company that did. But most of the threads on here state that ALL slots are rigged and we all somehow work together to rig everything. So even if you could prove one did (and I have knowledge of stuff in the past too... before we became highly regulated), it doesn't mean all are.

So you are as good as saying before it became highly regulated there may have been a lot more providers “at it”. At least that how it reads. I still await the answer to the millionaire question if you could shed any light please.

 

[Gaz237]

By the way trance any explanation for the randomness of the answer always being the highest percentage when you choose to walk away on millionaire?

It would be great if you could shed some light on this please TM.

I guess it's allowed, but it should not be.

 

[CasinoNinja]

It would be great if you could shed some light on this please TM.

I guess it's allowed, but it should not be.

I am pretty sure I have walked away, and it was not the highest percentage answer that was correct. So I highly doubt that this is the case everytime. But ofcourse it should be most likely, as you have the highest percentage.

I like to think of the millionaire gamble like a pie gamble. Say it was 80% chance of winning, the wheel would spin in the background and either hit green which would be the majority of the pie, or red which would be 20% of it. 60% win chance is equal to extra chili on the higher levels. You can still lose easily.

 

[Siohmy]

With WWTBAM I’d suspect that when you walk away it doesn’t bother playing out the gamble as if you’d carried on. Would explain the high level, if not 100%, highest %age is correct when you do. If this is the case, it is a bit shady as it does imply you should have gone with the highest %age answer. Maybe BTG could clarify. Not played it enough, or maybe walked away enough , to know how prevelant this is.

 

[trancemonkey]

So you are as good as saying before it became highly regulated there may have been a lot more providers “at it”. At least that how it reads. I still await the answer to the millionaire question if you could shed any light please.

You can read it how you want...

And as for millionaire, I've seen ones that aren't the top one be the answer. But seeing as the biggest percentage is the most likely, it's not surprising really is it.

 

[snorky510238]

I have walked away dozens of times and it has always without fail been the highest percentage even when it’s marginal like 28%. This is of course nowhere near in line with the dreaded 83% which is wrong most of the time.

 

[xexe]

IF they were rigged, it wouldn't be in a lower-the-RTP way, it would be in a keep-customers-playing way. Like making them very streaky to make it more possible to win and lose rather than just slowly bleeding away. On a loss streak? Luck's due any time now. On a win streak? This slot is awesome, I gotta keep playing it. On a loss streak after the win streak on that slot? I just gotta hit that sick bonus streak I got last time, it'll make up for everything! Any second now..

Do I think it's like this? Not really (except for quickspin jk). I'm aware that randomness would cause streakiness naturally. But IF they were to be rigged, I think it would be in a way that could literally not possibly be traced; not by straight up lowering the RTP in the age of slottrackers. I also don't buy the disgruntled employee argument, it's not like there are millions of slot-programmers out there. And out of the few there are, even fewer would probably specialize in rigging them. And they'd probably have to sign NDAs. I'll emphasize once more though that I don't really believe they are rigged in any way, but I also don't exclude the idea that some of them could be.

 

[trancemonkey]

IF they were rigged, it wouldn't be in a lower-the-RTP way, it would be in a keep-customers-playing way. Like making them very streaky to make it more possible to win and lose rather than just slowly bleeding away. On a loss streak? Luck's due any time now. On a win streak? This slot is awesome, I gotta keep playing it. On a loss streak after the win streak on that slot? I just gotta hit that sick bonus streak I got last time, it'll make up for everything! Any second now..

Do I think it's like this? Not really (except for quickspin jk). I'm aware that randomness would cause streakiness naturally. But IF they were to be rigged, I think it would be in a way that could literally not possibly be traced; not by straight up lowering the RTP in the age of slottrackers. I also don't buy the disgruntled employee argument, it's not like there are millions of slot-programmers out there. And out of the few there are, even fewer would probably specialize in rigging them. And they'd probably have to sign NDAs. I'll emphasize once more though that I don't really believe they are rigged in any way, but I also don't exclude the idea that some of them could be.

You can't sign an NDA that stops you whistleblowing someone breaking the law... so that's just not a valid argument. Do you think that would stand up in court? "Yes Judge, i knew what they were doing was illegal, but i'd signed an NDA so i couldn't tell the UKGC or the police". It still amazes me that people honestly believe that a contract can overrule law.

Also, clearly you don't understand how many software engineers are employed in our industry - the gambling industry is huge.

 

[xexe]

You can't sign an NDA that stops you whistleblowing someone breaking the law... so that's just not a valid argument. Do you think that would stand up in court? "Yes Judge, i knew what they were doing was illegal, but i'd signed an NDA so i couldn't tell the UKGC or the police". It still amazes me that people honestly believe that a contract can overrule law.

Tell that to Manning, Assange or Snowden. Jokes aside, scratch the NDA part then. Replace it with the fact that they would've been breaking the law themselves by programming rigged slots and wouldn't want to destroy their own life due to being... disgruntled?

Also, clearly you don't understand how many software engineers are employed in our industry - the gambling industry is huge.

Yeah but not very many of them would work specifically with slot RNG. And out of the ones that do, an even smaller part would in that case work with rigging them.

Why are you so aggressive & defensive about this anyway? It's not like either of us know for sure so chill out.

 

[trancemonkey]

Yeah but not very many of them would work specifically with slot RNG. And out of the ones that do, an even smaller part would in that case work with rigging them.

Why are you so aggressive & defensive about this anyway? It's not like either of us know for sure so chill out.

Again, your statement shows how little you know about the industry, the roles people play, the homologation processes or the PML responsibilities.

And in some cases, yes I do know for sure

 

[xexe]

Again, your statement shows how little you know about the industry, the roles people play, the homologation processes or the PML responsibilities.

And in some cases, yes I do know for sure

Right now you've got nothing to come with other than ad hominems. "Oh you don't know the industry" Why even create a thread if you're going to resort ad hominems every time somebody even remotely disagrees? I emphasized like thrice that I don't believe they're rigged, but that nobody knows for sure if some of them are rigged in some way. And guess what? I'm objectively correct, we don't know for sure whether some of them are rigged in some way or not.

Sometimes you just gotta take a couple of deep breaths, bite the bullet, and admit when you're wrong bud. No hard feelings

Peace ♥

 

[Gaz237]

Right now you've got nothing to come with other than ad hominems. "Oh you don't know the industry" Why even create a thread if you're going to resort ad hominems every time somebody even remotely disagrees? I emphasized like thrice that I don't believe they're rigged, but that nobody knows for sure if some of them are rigged in some way. And guess what? I'm objectively correct, we don't know for sure whether some of them are rigged in some way or not.

Sometimes you just gotta take a couple of deep breaths, bite the bullet, and admit when you're wrong bud. No hard feelings

Peace ♥

Just WOW.

Looks like your new to the forum.

Perhaps you should do a bit more reading, more so on the AMA thread.

TM has nothing to gain by lying and chooses to share his experience with us members.

There is rigged slots out there, but not on any decent licensed casinos.

As for people not whistle blowing because of their careers. Of course they would, TM being an example that he has worked for different companies and moved on.

 

[mack341]

Trance me ol mucka here's some bits I've been pondering..... If you took the random number generator used by wms/sg and switched it with the one used by netent, igt etc... would there be any difference to how the game played or 'felt' as it were?

And do the smaller slot developers use their own proprietary RNG or something generic they can buy in? Why isn't there just one RNG program for all slot developers to use? [ or maybe there is ] Is it a security concern to have just one or are some viewed as more random than others?

Lastly is the RNG program that a developer uses the same across all their titles, like netent, would twinspin use the same RNG program as vikings, but obviously with different values/results attached to the numbers pulled out.

PS. I know next to bugger all about the making of slots, so the above may be so far off the mark as to reality

 

[trancemonkey]

Here is the code for a Mersenne Twitter Pseudo-RNG .... many companies will use something like this.

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As you can see, it's not very big...

And yes any game will play the same on any RNG.

 

[trancemonkey]

Right now you've got nothing to come with other than ad hominems. "Oh you don't know the industry" Why even create a thread if you're going to resort ad hominems every time somebody even remotely disagrees? I emphasized like thrice that I don't believe they're rigged, but that nobody knows for sure if some of them are rigged in some way. And guess what? I'm objectively correct, we don't know for sure whether some of them are rigged in some way or not.

Sometimes you just gotta take a couple of deep breaths, bite the bullet, and admit when you're wrong bud. No hard feelings

Peace ♥

I'm not attacking you with ad hominems. I'm telling you the truth... you clearly don't understand the development process to say ""only a few are involved in the RNG" which is demonstrably false. Whereas I lead multiple teams through the development process, so I know exactly how it works

The RNG (as I've posted above) is a bit of software that 1. Has to be certified in its own right by the test labs as passing all the tests that RNGs have to go through (check out the GLI website or just Google RNG tests). 2. The coding of the maths is not done in isolation. And it's all tested and retested by in house peer review, stats tests, simulations, and then by the test labs such as GLI or BMM. So no... there aren't only a few people who "work on the RNG" because the rng isn't the maths.

 

[mack341]

Here is the code for a Mersenne Twitter Pseudo-RNG .... many companies will use something like this.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As you can see, it's not very big...

And yes any game will play the same on any RNG.

Thank you for the link, it looks far too complicated though for my tiny brain It's amazing how clever mathematicians and programmers are, what in the name of old mother riley does it all mean:

"y = (mt[kk] & UPPER_MASK) | (mt[kk + 1] & LOWER_MASK);"



ps. That was only a rhetorical question, any explanations are wasted on me as I never got to grips with algebra, letters appearing in the maths lesson dumbfounded me as I'd only just got used to calculating numbers

 

[trancemonkey]

Thank you for the link, it looks far too complicated though for my tiny brain It's amazing how clever mathematicians and programmers are, what in the name of old mother riley does it all mean:

"y = (mt[kk] & UPPER_MASK) | (mt[kk + 1] & LOWER_MASK);"



ps. That was only a rhetorical question, any explanations are wasted on me as I never got to grips with algebra, letters appearing in the maths lesson dumbfounded me as I'd only just got used to calculating numbers

It's what we programmers call "bit twiddling"

 

[dunover]

Right now you've got nothing to come with other than ad hominems. "Oh you don't know the industry" Why even create a thread if you're going to resort ad hominems every time somebody even remotely disagrees? I emphasized like thrice that I don't believe they're rigged, but that nobody knows for sure if some of them are rigged in some way. And guess what? I'm objectively correct, we don't know for sure whether some of them are rigged in some way or not.

Sometimes you just gotta take a couple of deep breaths, bite the bullet, and admit when you're wrong bud. No hard feelings

Peace ♥

Well let's see the evidence you have that he is wrong?

So far we've had historic instances of poker software and hi-lo gambles which are very basic programmes and nothing like slots, and were very likely not audited in a decent jurisdiction from the start.

We have the GameArt demo scandal, but this was a developer maths model released in error via demo links instead of the compliant real-play version.

Think those demo videos I do sometimes where I have access to a menu to trigger things for purposes of demonstration.

So I am asking you to show me evidence of any slots games licensed and audited in the UK or Europe that have subsequently been proven to be rigged?

This of course would be in conjunction with records of the colossal fines and sanctions the licensed developers and operators would get for providing them in the first place.

You know, 'let's skim the players of a few % RTP over hundreds of thousands of spins and make us and the operator an extra 2k in profit to enjoy before the £5m fine hits us'

 

[goatwack]

I don't know what this thread proves really. There'll be those that believe that slots are bent and others who believe it to be holier than Mother Theresa's chu-

Neither 'camp' is going to be swayed. We'd get more out of a 'Are vegans normal?' discussion

 

[snorky510238]

It has been explained plausibly that slots can come with different rtp settings and that casinos have to display which one they are using. As I understand it this is done by removing certain symbols and therefore lessening the amount of winning combinations. That seems logical and wouldn’t need any other form of “interference”. My point here is that when you have a game like roulette that has a fixed house edge of around 2.7% (European roulette) the programming I would have thought would be relatively straight forward. As in there are 37 numbers and the rng spits one of those out for every spin. I know for a fact that the provider who I didn’t name were running their roulette at a shockingly low 75%. Anything lower than 97.3% can only be achieved if they were using dodgy software or rngs. Which tells you when they were audited/tested whatever you want to call it there are either ways of doing it that can’t be detected or the testing is not sufficient.

 

[goatwack]

It has been explained plausibly that slots can come with different rtp settings and that casinos have to display which one they are using. As I understand it this is done by removing certain symbols and therefore lessening the amount of winning combinations. That seems logical and wouldn’t need any other form of “interference”. My point here is that when you have a game like roulette that has a fixed house edge of around 2.7% (European roulette) the programming I would have thought would be relatively straight forward. As in there are 37 numbers and the rng spits one of those out for every spin. I know for a fact that the provider who I didn’t name were running their roulette at a shockingly low 75%. Anything lower than 97.3% can only be achieved if they were using dodgy software or rngs. Which tells you when they were audited/tested whatever you want to call it there are either ways of doing it that can’t be detected or the testing is not sufficient.

Or how games go stone-cold dead a la 'the switch', when scatters and other top symbols go AWOL. So the RNG still picks random symbols......from a pool of five

 

[lockinlove]

I don't know what this thread proves really. There'll be those that believe that slots are bent and others who believe it to be holier than Mother Theresa's chu-

Neither 'camp' is going to be swayed. We'd get more out a 'Are vegans normal?' discussion

Welcome to the trump thread of slots. At some point you have to realize you can argue til youre orange in the face but this thread or any thread will not change anyones minds. But maybe it's good info for some/lurkers I dunno.

 

[spiker1977]

 

[trancemonkey]

It has been explained plausibly that slots can come with different rtp settings and that casinos have to display which one they are using. As I understand it this is done by removing certain symbols and therefore lessening the amount of winning combinations. That seems logical and wouldn’t need any other form of “interference”. My point here is that when you have a game like roulette that has a fixed house edge of around 2.7% (European roulette) the programming I would have thought would be relatively straight forward. As in there are 37 numbers and the rng spits one of those out for every spin. I know for a fact that the provider who I didn’t name were running their roulette at a shockingly low 75%. Anything lower than 97.3% can only be achieved if they were using dodgy software or rngs. Which tells you when they were audited/tested whatever you want to call it there are either ways of doing it that can’t be detected or the testing is not sufficient.

They clearly weren't tested

 

[LordSilver]

People believed the earth was flat, because they didn't have the knowledge, same goes for slots, if you have knowledge about them then you understand how they work and that they are not rigged (not counting rogue casinos and dodgy jurisdictions). But when people get emotional (and people do get emotional when it's about their own money!) they are driven by feelings rather than common sense.

 

[goatwack]

People believed the earth was flat, because they didn't have the knowledge, same goes for slots, if you have knowledge about them then you understand how they work and that they are not rigged (not counting rogue casinos and dodgy jurisdictions). But when people get emotional (and people do get emotional when it's about their own money!) they are driven by feelings rather than common sense.

People believe the earth is flat in 2019. I liken them to the 'Not Rigged' side

 

[snorky510238]

They clearly weren't tested

When was testing introduced?

 

[xexe]

Well let's see the evidence you have that he is wrong?

So far we've had historic instances of poker software and hi-lo gambles which are very basic programmes and nothing like slots, and were very likely not audited in a decent jurisdiction from the start.

We have the GameArt demo scandal, but this was a developer maths model released in error via demo links instead of the compliant real-play version.

Think those demo videos I do sometimes where I have access to a menu to trigger things for purposes of demonstration.

So I am asking you to show me evidence of any slots games licensed and audited in the UK or Europe that have subsequently been proven to be rigged?

This of course would be in conjunction with records of the colossal fines and sanctions the licensed developers and operators would get for providing them in the first place.

You know, 'let's skim the players of a few % RTP over hundreds of thousands of spins and make us and the operator an extra 2k in profit to enjoy before the £5m fine hits us'

I never said they were rigged, I even specifically said that I don't think they're rigged. I also specified that if they were rigged, it has nothing to do with lowering the RTP so perhaps read my previous comments before you reply again because we're in agreement and you're literally arguing against a strawman. All I said is that nobody can know for sure if none of them are rigged in a way that for example makes them more streaky because there's literally no way to prove that. I'll emphasize for a 5th time now that I don't believe that to be the case.

I'm trying my best to get out of this conversation because it's not leading anywhere when I'm the only one here of the philosophy "agree to disagree", but I just felt I had to reply to the literal strawman that implies me saying slots are rigged to lower RTP when the main point in my first post was the literal opposite of just that.

 

[Siohmy]

I don't know what this thread proves really. There'll be those that believe that slots are bent and others who believe it to be holier than Mother Theresa's chu-

Neither 'camp' is going to be swayed. We'd get more out a 'Are vegans normal?' discussion

Don’t be ridiculous, no way vegans are “normal”.

 

[snorky510238]

I think a big problem occurs with the context in which we use and interpret the word “rigged”. There is a big difference between rigged to cheat a player and rigged to make them more streaky. I would say that the reputable casinos are “fair” some of the less reputable ones I would have major doubts. The one thing I would conclude across the board is that whether it’s fair or not there is some way that providers are able to create hot and cold streaks on slots.

 

[trancemonkey]

When was testing introduced?

For UKGC licenced games, i believe it was the 2009 Gaming Act that required all games to be laboratory tested. Before that, the industry "self-policed".

 

[trancemonkey]

I never said they were rigged, I even specifically said that I don't think they're rigged. I also specified that if they were rigged, it has nothing to do with lowering the RTP so perhaps read my previous comments before you reply again because we're in agreement and you're literally arguing against a strawman. All I said is that nobody can know for sure if none of them are rigged in a way that for example makes them more streaky because there's literally no way to prove that. I'll emphasize for a 5th time now that I don't believe that to be the case.

I'm trying my best to get out of this conversation because it's not leading anywhere when I'm the only one here of the philosophy "agree to disagree", but I just felt I had to reply to the literal strawman that implies me saying slots are rigged to lower RTP when the main point in my first post was the literal opposite of just that.

To be fair, i had no issue with most of what you said. But you inferred i had no idea what i was talking about, and was guessing... which is quite clearly untrue. Apologies if that's not what you meant.

 

[snorky510238]

For UKGC licenced games, i believe it was the 2009 Gaming Act that required all games to be laboratory tested. Before that, the industry "self-policed".

“License to kill” then before 2009.

 

[TheAddict]

TACH=full]104293[/ATTACH] ....

 

[trancemonkey]

“License to kill” then before 2009.

I have no idea... I wasn't involved in online back then. But whether it was or wasn't has no bearing on the situation now, some 14 years later.

And my apologies, it was the 2005 Gambling Act...

 

[ev4me]

Joker Pro from NetEnt gives the impression that wilds are easier to come by when you reach the bonus room, but visually it is a bit deceptive because the wild to create the "hotspot" is so much harder to come by than the wilds in any other position. So here again we have the "scratchcard" type scenario. Other than this, I generally find NetEnt games to give a visually accurate representation of the true odds and not have fillers like some of the other providers.

 

[brianmon]

Joker Pro from NetEnt gives the impression that wilds are easier to come by when you reach the bonus room, but visually it is a bit deceptive because the wild to create the "hotspot" is so much harder to come by than the wilds in any other position. So here again we have the "scratchcard" type scenario. Other than this, I generally find NetEnt games to give a visually accurate representation of the true odds and not have fillers like some of the other providers.

Apart from Secret of the stones, where you constantly get wilds on reels 4 and 5, which are always in exactly the wrong position to make a win

 

[brianmon]

For those of you that think slots (and roulette, and the rest) are rigged / compensated, consider the following questions first.

1. Can you prove beyond doubt using statistical evidence that games are rigged / compensated? Or is it just purely based on a "feeling"?
2. It is illegal (in regulated markets) and the software providers risk losing their licence, and compensating or rigging would be fraud, and therefore a criminal offence. The directors, or the software developers, or both, could go to prison for quite a long time. Is it really worth it - i would seriously doubt many people would say yes.
3. Given that casinos can make more money by running lower RTP versions of the games, why do they need to "rig" games when they already have the edge? They already have the ability to increase that edge should they so choose by running games at a lower RTP where games providers supply them.
4. Nearly all games providers are in competition with each other - so why would they then work together on complex and illegal software?
5. If i was going to compensate a game (and i've done compensated Cat C, B4 and some old B3 games) why would we compensate in such a way to make it OBVIOUS that it's ripping your arms off. The whole point of compensation is control - so if we CAN control the games, why make it so obvious and make them play so badly. Pissing players off does nothing other than lose customers, so your reasoning makes no sense.
6. Why has not one single pissed off disgruntled or sacked employee come out and spilled the beans. Ever.
7. Have you heard of Apophenia - it refers to a universal human tendency to seek patterns in random information, such as gambling. It's also called the "Gambler's Fallacy" -

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- this describes exactly the feeling that you (and most of us on here) have when gambling. Except only a few make the jump to rigged. And yes this is a provable phenomenon. The POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS section might give you some insight, but all of it is worth a read - here's an excerpt:
The gambler's fallacy is a deep-seated cognitive bias and can be very hard to overcome. Educating individuals about the nature of randomness has not always proven effective in reducing or eliminating any manifestation of the fallacy. Participants in a study by Beach and Swensson in 1967 were shown a shuffled deck of index cards with shapes on them, and were instructed to guess which shape would come next in a sequence. The experimental group of participants was informed about the nature and existence of the gambler's fallacy, and were explicitly instructed not to rely on run dependency to make their guesses. The control group was not given this information. The response styles of the two groups were similar, indicating that the experimental group still based their choices on the length of the run sequence. This led to the conclusion that instructing individuals about randomness is not sufficient in lessening the gambler's fallacy
8. If you are still adamant we are a lying bunch of crooks, i'm a liar and just here to further the misdirection, then honestly - why play at all?

TM

As a player, as well as working in the industry. Do you ever have to remind yourself of any of these points, when you're playing?

 

[trancemonkey]

As a player, as well as working in the industry. Do you ever have to remind yourself of any of these points, when you're playing?

Absolutely... even when playing my own games during development it can feel like the game has "gone on the take" or is "in a hot streak". It's amazing how "not random" ransom games can be...

 

[dunover]

Absolutely... even when playing my own games during development it can feel like the game has "gone on the take" or is "in a hot streak". It's amazing how "not random" ransom games can be...

A freudian slip there - yep, your balance is cetainly held to ransom.

 

[trancemonkey]

A freudian slip there - yep, your balance is cetainly held to ransom.

Rumbled...

 

[BrianGhattas]

After seeing Kim’s latest fake money stream, I think they’re rigged.

 

[Sasukdcf]

As someone has already said it’s not a question of being rigged it’s more a question of how they are designed and how you are told they are designed....

Every casino will tell you the stakes are irrelevant to the outcome...

Well 15 years of playing suggests otherwise!

I am a high stakes player and although I have had lots of fairly large wins I have never had one that comes close while playing larger stakes to the countless pro rata massive wins on lower stakes....

Although the percentage of my play maybe slightly higher on the lower stakes end of the scale ( but not that much)

I would have no clue how many times I have hit 1000x payouts on £1 and £2 stakes...

Hundreds of times over the years with many way higher than that....

And how many times have I hit the same sortnof return playing £10 stakes and upwards....

Hold on I’ll get my calculator....


Once!

And moreover the game play blatantly changes as you increase stakes and I have brought this up countless times with casinos...

I have even offered to prove it by offering to sit and watch a session with the stakes and returns hidden and I’ll tell you whether it’s being played on low or high stakes just by the way it plays.... ( on certain games )

The most blatant that I know is 6 appeal where you can see the difference instantly..

Get up to £6 stakes and over and dice disappear and if you do hit 3 or more you can be fairly sure at least one of the blues will be a 1!!!

So rigged may not be the right word
But I would put my life on the fact there is a definitive correlation ( negative ) between stake and feature return.

But that doesn’t break and laws even if there is cos the laws are a joke and the GC is a joke that’s so far behind the casinos it’s almost funny!!

 

[sledge13]

^^^^ 100% correct on increasing stake, we all know that as players right back to DOA arriving on the scene, you aint gonna get the 8000x hot on £2 stakes...TRANCEMONKEY?!?!?!?

 

[trancemonkey]

^^^^ 100% correct on increasing stake, we all know that as players right back to DOA arriving on the scene, you aint gonna get the 8000x hot on £2 stakes...TRANCEMONKEY?!?!?!?

^^^ 100% incorrect on increasing stake - on most games (i say most because there may be some - The Sky's The Limit is one i can think of that does change as you stake up) the stake is irrelevant.

 

[eizei]

I've said this before but here I go again. Over the years I've heard this theory about higher stakes paying less countless times but a funny detail is that depending on who's telling the story the stakes are always different. Someone who usually plays on 20p stakes might be saying they never ever hit anything big on 80p-1€ bets and another one who's usually playing those stakes will complain how they never hit anything when playing above 2€ bet. Then you have the people playing with 5€ bets complaining about the same thing when choosing to go with 10-20€ bets. So what's the magic stake where the games still payout big and what's the cutoff for when it rarely happens anymore? If the answer is different based on who you ask then the quite obvious answer is there is none. Most people have a range of bets they usually stick to while occasionally going for higher bets. How is it in any way surprising that you will see less if any big wins on those higher stakes that you play less often and probably for a smaller amount of spins? Even if you don't the odds for those massive wins are so incredibly low it's pretty stupid to draw any conclusions from the circumstances of those wins. Might be for example you hit all your big wins when playing around midnight and never when you play in the morning. Does that mean the slots are more likely to pay in the evening? Probably not.

 

[xexe]

I read lockedinlove's project to play 1 million vikings go berserk spins and she noticed that every time she tried higher stakes, her RTP went to shit. So I went on slot tracker and it proved to be true, over like hundreds of thousands of spins. Then I went on other games and yggdrasil in specific were impeccable. Almost literally every single game of theirs had the normal ~95% SRP, but the actual RTP was always hovering around 80-85% for every single game. I was going to link to them just now but yggdrasil and all their games appear to be gone from my slot tracker. Can others see their games still?

We're not talking a statistical normality, we're talking winning the power ball with 1 ticket every day for 10 years- kind of statistics, like literally impossible statistics.

BTW I'm not saying it's rigged, it could just be the slot tracker being buggy or something. But on the other hand, I doubt the RNG-testers would test what'd happen if you sit on one stake for a while and then raise it.

 

[mack341]

I read lockedinlove's project to play 1 million vikings go berserk spins and he noticed that every time he tried higher stakes, his RTP went to shit. So I went on slot tracker and it proved to be true, over like hundreds of thousands of spins. Then I went on other games and yggdrasil in specific were impeccable. Almost literally every single game of theirs had the normal ~95% SRP, but the actual RTP was always hovering around 80-85% for every single game. I was going to link to them just now but yggdrasil and all their games appear to be gone from my slot tracker. Can others see their games still?

We're not talking a statistical normality, we're talking winning the power ball with 1 ticker every day for 10 years kind of statistics, like literally impossible statistics.

BTW I'm not saying it's rigged, it could just be the slot tracker being buggy or something. But on the other hand, I doubt the RNG-testers would test what'd happen if you sit on one stake for a while and then raise it.

just a heads up xexe but lockedinlove is of the female persuasion