The Palace group Jackpotinaflash: resolved

[tepux]

Unbelievable....
Jackpot in a flash wouldn't pay 5660Gbp
i received a bonus from the casino ,in GBP,i checked the terms
and it stated that you can open an account in gbp ,but your bonus can be voided,"The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses"
they credit my account with the bonus ,i played and won ,i tried to cash out and then to my surprise i received an email that lets me know that my winnings are voided and the deposit was credited to my neteller account.
after this i went in again to the web site and i discovered that they change the T&C "during the night",
in the new terms they added that the bonus and the winning can be voided
"The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings"
the way i see it if they credit my account with the bonus they should pay me my winings,if they didnt want me to get a bonus in Gbp they should have
voided the bonus.
i didn't lie to them in the registration i live in france,they should have prevented me from getting the bonus
in case i would lose they wouldnt credit my deposit back to my neteller account
for the casino it's a win win situation if you lost its ok but if you win your winnings will be voided
furthermore i registered at this casino after it was recommended to me by a Friend ,that won and got paid (in GBP) ,and still he gets promotional offers in Gbp.
if this is not an evil casino so what is?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Casinos

It is never a good idea to rely solely on a friends recommendation of a casino, especially as to what is, or is not, allowed.
Terms change regularly, and what was allowed when a friend registered may no longer be now.
This particular rule on currency is something that few casinos really worried about in the past, but recently it has become a massive issue with many. Being non-UK resident and choosing GBP is never a good idea without getting personal agreement from the casino, do not rely on the fact a friend got away with it - it could be the friend has never made a big enough cash-in for a proper audit, and will come a cropper eventually, or they signed up when it WAS allowed, and will naturally still be receiving promotions in the currency of their account irrespective of recent rule changes.
Currency terms are now so widespread that they should be assumed to exist unless specifically told otherwise in writing. If a players own currency does not get offered, play should be in USD, again unless otherwise stated or by written agreement.

There is a strong need for software to be upgraded to cope with this, it should not be that hard to show an amended currency selection screen after the registrant has filled in their residence details. Certainly, if you tick "NO" when asked if you are of legal age you are given an amended completion screen based on that previous response.
Instead of 7 new games each month, how about 4 or 5, and then 2 "back office" type upgrades to address some of these other issues.

Other than the above, an upgrade to Playcheck & Cashcheck is needed so we can download our own logs into a spreadsheet and/or calculate total wagering on individual games over a session.
Having to cut & paste every 25 or 50 lines of playlogs at a time, and then reformat because the spreadsheet does not understand the tabs, does NOT constitute such a facility

 

[The Dude]

It is never a good idea to rely solely on a friends recommendation of a casino, especially as to what is, or is not, allowed.

Especially when this is in their terms and conditions:


13. The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition. An exception is made for USD and CAD to this clause.

You read this when you signed up, right? You should have deposited in Euros. Why didn't you contact their support to make sure that French players could use British Pounds? You broke their terms and conditions - so why are you complaining?

 

[Macgyver]

You read this when you signed up, right? You should have deposited in Euros. Why didn't you contact their support to make sure that French players could use British Pounds? You broke their terms and conditions - so why are you complaining?

[sarcasm]Because the argument of "Well, someone else did it and you didn't catch them!" is now supposed to be a valid one.[/sarcasm]

Commonly used by kids caught with their hands in the cookie jar and / or people about to get a speeding (or any other moving violation) ticket from the police.

 

[leszeksch]

[sarcasm]Because the argument of "Well, someone else did it and you didn't catch them!" is now supposed to be a valid one.[/sarcasm]

Commonly used by kids caught with their hands in the cookie jar and / or people about to get a speeding (or any other moving violation) ticket from the police.

Especially when this is in their terms and conditions:


13. The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition. An exception is made for USD and CAD to this clause.

You read this when you signed up, right? You should have deposited in Euros. Why didn't you contact their support to make sure that French players could use British Pounds? You broke their terms and conditions - so why are you complaining?

Today i spoken via live chat and Sam told :This is rule for new players.

 

[The Dude]

Today i spoken via live chat and Sam told :This is rule for new players.

Far enough. Need I stress more that players must read the terms and conditions when signing up ANYWHERE!

Also, if you are doing something out of the ordinary (like depositing in British pounds when you are living in France) CONTACT THEIR CUSTOMER SUPPORT TO MAKE SURE IT IS OKAY!!

 

[tepux]

Especially when this is in their terms and conditions:


13. The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition. An exception is made for USD and CAD to this clause.

You read this when you signed up, right? You should have deposited in Euros. Why didn't you contact their support to make sure that French players could use British Pounds? You broke their terms and conditions - so why are you complaining?

Thank you for your little lesson, honey, but we all know that it was allowed to use other currencies
Anyway, I'm not that stupid, i did read the Terms & Conditions before and i even have a screen shot of it and it's why i complained. Because i have a proof that they did change it after my winning.
So instead of playing the smart guy you better show more respect and interest to what people write. You should also stop askink why i opened in GBP when you surely know the interest of playing in higher currency.

 

[spearmaster]

Thank you for your little lesson, honey, but we all know that it was allowed to use other currencies

Honey?

This oughta be good...

Tepux, you should be glad you can even deposit in Euros... you could've been stuck with francs... and you better read the rules AGAIN.

 

[The Dude]

Thank you for your little lesson, honey, but we all know that it was allowed to use other currencies ...

Okay sweetie, I tell you what. I'll check into this for you.

Kisses.

Bryan

 

[Macgyver]

So instead of playing the smart guy you better show more respect and interest to what people write. You should also stop askink why i opened in GBP when you surely know the interest of playing in higher currency.

I would have thought that the above would have received an entirely different response than "sweetie".

 

[shawnh]

In the topic's title, it says it's been 'resolved'. Has this been resolved??

Shawn

 

[Pinababy69]

Okay sweetie, I tell you what. I'll check into this for you.

Kisses.

Bryan

What....no hugs Bryan??

All I can say to the OP's response is.......WOWZA!!!

 

[The Dude]

Thank you for your little lesson, honey, but we all know that it was allowed to use other currencies
Anyway, I'm not that stupid, i did read the Terms & Conditions before and i even have a screen shot of it and it's why i complained. Because i have a proof that they did change it after my winning.
So instead of playing the smart guy you better show more respect and interest to what people write. You should also stop askink why i opened in GBP when you surely know the interest of playing in higher currency.

I spoke to them over the phone, and the casino said they changed the terms in September. Screenshots? When were they taken? And why take screenshots of something you thought might be out of line, and not contact support to find out whether or not depositing GBP from France was okay?

Please don't waste my time, babe.

 

[shawnh]

As I mentioned before, my friend DID contact support for Mummysgold (also Palace Group) and was told GBP was okay for Canadians. But then when I went and deposited and played and GBP, I was denied my winnings.

So personally contacting customer support is not worth anything either.

So if you can't get the story by either contacting customer support or taking screenshots of T's & C's, what's a player to do then??

Shawn

 

[eranluv]

jackpot in flash T&C

I checked jaskpot in flash terms few weeks ago.

I think they said something about withholding the bonuses from player that use other currencies but mentioned nothing about confiscation of the winnings.
I checked it a few days ago and they changed it to a confiscation of the winnings but that was not the situation before.

maybe someone here has the answer for the following question -

who can we find out what were the terms on the web site as of the date when the players played?
trusting the casino on this is not an option.

 

[leszeksch]

Pal;ce Group

What about players who registered their GBP accounts back in 2005 year?
I`m from Europe and i have all The Palace group casinos acc. in GBP.
GBP currency has been allowed for all players.What now?This month i played with bonus(MummysGoldcasino) and won about 500GBP.They paid me without any problems,but i`m not sure if i won for example 5000GBP.What about old accounts registered with GBP currency?My all account has registered from your site Bryan.I`m Vip player In Spin Palce and Ruby Fortune.Only this year i have lost about 1500GBP in Ruby Fortune.Please explain what about accounts registered one or two years ago.

 

[shawnh]

Eranluv - I noticed the same thing. I think they changed their T&C 'after the fact'. How do we know for sure? Tepux (the thread starter) said she she took screenshots of 'before'. Let her present these screenshots. There is our proof. With all due respect, I think Casinomeister is dismissing this case too quickly. PalaceGroup is exhibiting some fishy behaviour here.

Furthermore, Lezkesch from Poland just said he has been playing in GBP for some time, and still is. Lately he says he has lost 1500GBP. PalaceGroup seems to have no problem keeping that money, do they!!

This whole thing really stinks.

Shawn

 

[The Dude]

What is clear to me is that the Palace Group didn't care who opened accounts in GBPs in the past, but then they changed their terms and conditions which are what they are now. If you don't live in the UK - don't use British Pounds.

It's irrelevant whether or not other players or "friends" were doing this in the past. It's irrelevant that friends said that it was ok to deposit in this manner. What's relevant is that this player deposited after the terms and conditions were changed. I'm sure the casino can verify when these terms and conditions were changed. I'll check into this early next week.

 

[cegep]

Other Currency

Why not opening your account into $ or $CDN?

 

[SKUNX]

The whole issue is when the player actually deposited , once that question is answered its just a one path road.

I really dont want to be rude but I read posts and new threads every day of people that DO NOT read the terms and conditions and then turn to silly arguements on the casinos terms and conidtions years ago , or a friends ride on a casino .

I dont want to come off like I am giving the casino the reason but I knwo first hand that there are alot of players that DO NOT read the terms and then make a huge fuss about it .

Read the terms ... read the conditions and it never hurts to ask the live chat operator or even send an email and wait for confirmation from the accounting department when one is dealing with foreign money I know I do that when I play since I am in Costa Rica.

 

[tepux]

What is clear to me is that the Palace Group didn't care who opened accounts in GBPs in the past, but then they changed their terms and conditions which are what they are now. If you don't live in the UK - don't use British Pounds.

It's irrelevant whether or not other players or "friends" were doing this in the past. It's irrelevant that friends said that it was ok to deposit in this manner. What's relevant is that this player deposited after the terms and conditions were changed. I'm sure the casino can verify when these terms and conditions were changed. I'll check into this early next week.

I didn't ask the customer service because the terms and conditions were clear enough : They won't give the bonus. But they did...
I did screen shot of it based on my experience with casinos and their loyalty. So I attached it this time. I think the casino shouldn't have give the bonus if they wouldn't accept my account in GBP. Once it's done it's not fair to step back. I don't beleive they will have return deposit if i would lose. That's all i ask, that Jackpot in a flash will be fair and pay me as they accept my account in GBP. It cannot be all the time a win-win situation for the casino.

 

[The Dude]

This is your original complaint that was submitted to the casino:


Forum User Name tepux
First Name
Last Name
Casino Name jackpot in a flash
Casino url Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Username or Account
Who has been contacted: [email protected]
The problem: opened in GBP because I did not know I had to play in euro. as far as I remember this clause is new at the casino. it is the casino fault because of 3 things:

1 - they should see that I choose France as my country. I did not lie about that and they should unable me to open in GBP if they do not want me to play in GBP

2 - they did not have to give me the bonus but once they gave it they can not say that if I lose they keep the money and if I win they take it all.the casino is playing safe here. deposited in GBP very good if you win we keep the money if you lose we also keep the money.

3 - even according to the terms and condition they are not allowed to do it

13. The Player acknowledges ... playing with the primary currency used in the country .... The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition.

now, the casino has changed the terms and conditions to:

The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency

but when I played the terms were different withhold the bonus but not the winnings.

I registered an account betwin 31/10/06 and 01/11/06 , i think they changed the terms at the 01/11/06 after i registered.

I think the casino is does not play fair, they should void the bonus ,and if they didn't,they have to pay the winnings.

I didn't ask the customer service because the terms and conditions were clear enough .

Your screenshot shows that it states "The player acknowledges that in order for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from...

Your entire play was voided - that's why you received your deposit back. If you had lost....I can't answer that. But you didn't.

But I bet if you had deposited in GBP and DIDN'T accept a bonus, you would have been able to collect your winnings.

I still don't understand why you deposited in GBP - KNOWINGLY IN THE WRONG - and NOT contact the customer support. Instead you waste my time with this crap - trying to split hairs and presenting the casino and me with "what ifs".

opened in GBP because I did not know I had to play in euro

WTF?

You my friend are a time vampire - you suck time right out of my hands while I should be concerning myself with players who have real problems. Or taking a break and playing games with my kids.

This is resolved in my opinion. Player knowingly failed to abide by posted terms and conditions.

 

[Vesuvio]

While I appreciate it's no fun spending your time on this, Bryan, I'd side with the player here.

Whether he knew what he was doing or not, after a casino accepts a deposit, allows you to play in a currency and gives you a bonus they have to pay out if you meet the terms of that bonus and win.

Otherwise we're in a situation where disreputable casinos have a green light to trap players into no-win situations (the speciality of Virtual and all those clip joints). They're delighted for players to play and break a term or two because they know that if the player wins they can void play, and if he loses they pocket the deposit. Not to mention that if the average player plays in a more valuable currency it earns the casino more money.

A reputable casino simply has to, 1) prevent the player playing in a disallowed currency (everyone has to register where they're from), or if that fails, 2) deny a bonus when the player makes a claim.

If they fail to do both of those through their own negligence then the only reputable response is to acknowledge their mistake and allow the player to play under the normal conditions of the bonus.

 

[The Dude]

Sorry, I don't buy it. I do not agree that players can disregard the posted rules and say "well I slid under the radar, deposited and got a bonus - pay me".

No one invited him to play in GBP - it explicitly states this was not allowed. That's totally different then some shady operation. A crap joint wouldn't have a rule; they would make one up after the fact.

I'm not wasting any further time with this. Sorry.

 

[eranluv]

my opinion

this is something!

not only the casino is trying to enter a win-win situation but they do not stand up for thier own T&C!!

the T&C tapux sent are saying that "casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses resulting from ..."
in other words, no withholding of the winnings is permitted even according to the casino!!
I think also the casino knows that and this is why they changed the T&C.

about the screen shot - I think it was taken after he made the winning. we should ask him about that but it does not make sence he is taking screen shots of all casinos where he plays. so, I tend to belive him he did not know that GBP was not allowed.

one last thing about the casinomeister, I really appreciate your work but I think you are attacking tapux personally.
you might disagree with him but he is trying to get what he thinks to be his. a lot of money is pending here, more than 5,000GBP, I completly understands the way he acts and to call him a time vampire is a little out of line.

my opinion.

 

[The Dude]

so, I tend to belive him he did not know that GBP was not allowed.
.

When did France suddenly become part of the UK?

one last thing about the casinomeister, I really appreciate your work but I think you are attacking tapux personally...

Calling someone a Time Vampire is not a personal attack. It's describing someone or something that is a total waste of time. How is this not a waste of time?

 

[eranluv]

When did France suddenly become part of the UK?

come on! players can use different currencies at many casinos. I played at several micro gaming with euro and GBP although I am from Asia.
some of them have no problem you are doing it (I wonder why should they)
some of them do not allow you to open the account or prevent you from getting bonuses which is also fine with me.
and some of them are waiting for your win and then comeout with this clause.

but even if the player did know that GBP was not allowed. under what right the casino is withholding the winnings? does every branch of the contract mean the player is doomed? what if even the casino itself said that only bonuses will be withholded and not winnings? even in that situation they confiscate all winnings?

Calling someone a Time Vampire is not a personal attack. It's describing someone or something that is a total waste of time. How is this not a waste of time?

maybe it's a waste of time but this is not the guy/lady intention. that's all I was saying.

 

[SKUNX]

I would like to apologize to all for double posting .. BUT if you would read my previous post in this thread you you will get the point.

Players think like the casino is the enemy and that all they want is to stiff them . Players break casino rules EVERY day and HUNDREDS of players DO NOT read the terms of conditions of the casino and promotions before depositng or using a promo GUYS.. an email to the CS people will only take 5 minutes of your time , so will reading the rules of the casino.

But God forbid a player EVER to be wrong , its called responsible gaming and you know what if you are old enough and what to risk your money then people should be more careful... It is getting old reading posts of players that feel " RIPPED OFF " just because they didnt take the time to reads the terms , this is not always the case since I do agree that there are alot of shady oprations right now, bit it wont hurt anybody to research a bit more before risking your money

 

[mikepipe]

everything is said, but not by anyone - so let me add this:
for me the decisive point is that the player knew that it was wrong to choose GBP - he or she admits that the casino could have rejected.
So he or she knew that accepting the currency was an error.
And this is not the base to risk money on.
In germany there is an idiom of "Treu und Glauben" translated mybe faith/trust and believe. And that is what the player violated by not only accepting the bonus, but claiming to be ripped.

 

[chuchu59]

The rules were there but the player missed them. IMO I think this is an honest mistake. The casino should not be using this clause to void his winnings. So, I would suggest that since the player should have been playing in Euros and getting his bonus in Euros as well, just give him his winnings in Euros instead of Pounds. Wouldnt that be a fairer solution?

 

[SKUNX]

Chuchu .. I honestly dont think the player missed them if you are going to deposit in foreign monies then you should always double check.

" Learn the hard way and you never forget "

 

[Vesuvio]

No one invited him to play in GBP - it explicitly states this was not allowed. That's totally different then some shady operation. A crap joint wouldn't have a rule; they would make one up after the fact.

I'd disagree, though. Crap joints usually do have rules, the more obscure and easily broken the better, and operate in about the same way as here.

The casino is negligent in not dealing with something they could easily handle automatically. How difficult can it be to check if the player is from the UK before allowing them to deposit or receive a bonus in GBP? The only explanation I can see for it is that the casino is happy to trap deposits and make more money out of losers.

I don't have any particular sympathy for this player as he does seem to have known what he might be getting himself into, but others no doubt do the same unwittingly (a gambler, just as much as a bonus hunter, can see that playing in GBP will give you more of a bonus - or what about countries whose currency isn't supported at on-line casinos?).

Yep, there are terms, but it's worth remembering that unreasonable terms are legally unenforceable - not that on-line casinos tend to bother with the law

 

[chuchu59]

Chuchu .. I honestly dont think the player missed them if you are going to deposit in foreign monies then you should always double check.

" Learn the hard way and you never forget "

Hi Skunx,

Even if the player had deposited in another currency deliberately, as long as the casino is only going to pay in euros, the disadvantage will be on the side of the player. He deposits in a higher-value currency but gets returns/winnings in the lower-value currency. Actually, I think casinos, except the shady ones who will practically do anything to screw players of a buck or two, should explicitly state that players who deposit in a currency other than their own stand to receive payouts in their own currency (1:1) where the depositing currency is greater in value than their own currency. For example, some players who should be depositing in US Dollars but actually deposit in British Pounds will risk approximately $2 to win $1 in an even-money game. This increases the house edge enormously (maybe grandmaster can calculate it) and new players will think twice before doing anything so stupid.

Right now, I still think the player should be paid his due in Euros as this would be exactly what he would have gotten if he had deposited in euros. If he had lost, it would be in pounds so the casino actually does stand to gain unless it thinks of itslef as a court and the player should be punished by having the winnings confiscated.

 

[SKUNX]

Hey Chuchu

I agree with you in more than one thing . But the whole point of the dispute is that the casino does state that in their terms and conditions . Its the players fault for not double checking specially when we now Casinos will find every clause possible to confiscate a win , this is when I just suggest that players should be more careful when they deposit under ANY circumstances .

Its only responsible gaming if you ask me .

It comes down to this..

If the player would have bothered and asked before depositing this post would not even be here .

Again this is just my opinion and to the player that ran into this problem I wish you luck and I would advice next to ask , I hope I wasnt rude at any point I was just expressing my point of view since I undergo similar circumstances when I play since I play from a Third World Country.

Thanks

 

[spearmaster]

The player did not follow posted terms and conditions - and thus he is not entitled to his winnings. It's plain and simple.

Just because he chose a different currency and was able to deposit means nothing. And it isn't so straightforward that the currency can be automated. For example, if I am an American living in the UK, or a Brit living in the US, which currency should I be forced to play in? Does it matter where my banks are?

When you're driving, and see a stop sign, do you ignore it and drive right through the intersection, or do you stop like you're told?

If you drive through the stop sign and get pulled over, don't expect to get away with some excuse about "But that stop sign doesn't apply to Ferraris, does it?" or "That sign is not in (insert language)".

 

[winbig]

The player did not follow posted terms and conditions - and thus he is not entitled to his winnings. It's plain and simple.

Just because he chose a different currency and was able to deposit means nothing. And it isn't so straightforward that the currency can be automated. For example, if I am an American living in the UK, or a Brit living in the US, which currency should I be forced to play in? Does it matter where my banks are?

When you're driving, and see a stop sign, do you ignore it and drive right through the intersection, or do you stop like you're told?

If you drive through the stop sign and get pulled over, don't expect to get away with some excuse about "But that stop sign doesn't apply to Ferraris, does it?" or "That sign is not in (insert language)".

But, the $64 Million question here is: If the player would have lost his deposit, would he get it returned? Going by their T&C, all play would be void.

 

[chuchu59]

What differntiates a good casino from a shady operation is that the former will not take advantage of the player through ill-thought out Terms and Conditions. This is similar to the King Neptune case and favours the casino just too much to be true. The Terms and Conditions are there to prevent casinos from player abuse not to screw them. May I ask where the casino has suffered a loss in this instance if they paid in euros instead of pounds. We are simply reverting to the situation where whatever currency the player deposited in, he could only win what he could have won in his own country's currency. The casino should state this in the Ts and Cs and if players are stupid enough to deposit in a higher currency they face a far higher risk than depositing in their own currency.

I think casinos should stop from using such poorly thought-out Ts and Cs to rob players of legitimate winnings. Simply stating that the player had agreed to them before making a deposit is simply not good enough.

 

[kreome]

Spearmaster and Casinomeister

You all keep saying that the terms were breached.

You forget one important thing that the player explicitly said

THE TERMS SAID THAT THE BONUS WILL BE REMOVED IF HE OPEN IN THE WRONG CURRENCY

Those were the terms, only the bonus and not the entire winnings.

Why to revoke his winnings , did he commit a fraud ? only when a player commit a fraud it is a reason to cancel winnings.

If the terms said can't get your bonus, then remove the bonus and pay or atleast pay in Euro.

I personally think the casino should pay at the supported currency.

This is also plain and simple.

 

[Palace Group]

Hi All,

Just to answer a few comments:

1) we are looking into a system that stops incorrect currency but as mentioned this is not an easy thing to do.

2) paying someone in a different currecy is not the way to resolve this issue. The terms and conditions are clear and the player broke the conditions. We refunded the initial deposit so have not done the player any injustice.

3) there has been a lot of talk about honest and dishonest casinos. I am sure you know that over the last few years our group has been above board with everything and always looked after our players.

4) the complete terms are listed below which do state bonuses and winnings will be withheld:
--The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition. An exception is made for USD and CAD to this clause

I hope this clarifies things!

Have a great festive season all.

Kind regards,

Darran
The Palace Group

 

[kreome]

The player mentioned different facts

The player, can u show any screenshot of the term that said only bonus was allowed.

You can add a screenshot to this forum, do you know that ?

 

[spearmaster]

THE TERMS SAID THAT THE BONUS WILL BE REMOVED IF HE OPEN IN THE WRONG CURRENCY

Play from the time the bonus was added until the bonus was removed for a breach would also be voided. It is simply not reasonable to allow winnings derived from use of a bonus in part or whole (under the assumption that money played is at the same ratio as bonus to deposit - ie if 200 bonus for 100 deposit, then 2/3 of every bet would be using bonus funds).

It is not possible for anyone to claim that they won money without using the bonus, even under the extreme circumstances as chuchu referred to (and in that case the casino was going out of their way to give the player the benefit of the doubt when it was absolutely unnecessary). You would have known the bonus was there - if you didn't want it you could have it removed.

As much as I think players should get treated fairly by casinos, and as much as Meister and I will stick up for players who get ripped off - I think it's high time that the players treat the casinos fairly as well.

But, the $64 Million question here is: If the player would have lost his deposit, would he get it returned? Going by their T&C, all play would be void.

By now it's probably a $32 million question... LOL...

Until such time as a player loses his deposit after depositing in the wrong currency, or otherwise abusing the terms and conditions, and makes it known to us here, I believe we simply can't answer that question.

 

[kreome]

Spearmaster, terms and condition are terms and condition

What you read is what you get , no thoughts, no I believe , no common sense and no it is not possible

When we come to judge we have to ask what did the term say ?

By the way if it was not possible as you say WHY DID THEY CHANGE THE TERMS RIGHT AFTER HE SENT HIS EMAIL, why did they correct it ?

They corrected it because of one reason: They wanted to confiscate ALL of his winnings and not only the bonus as the OLD TERMS SAID

I think you should admit that since the casino stated that only the bonus will be removed this is the max they can do and pay the winnings.

 

[chuchu59]

What I have trying to say all along is that if the player had deposited in euros he would still have gotten the bonus. The difference is the currency now. Now we have a case of extremities here. The bonus was given and the casino did not remove it in time and then it is argued that the winnings are derived from the bonus. How would anyone know? If we use the scenario in the King Neptune case, as long as the bets placed did not dip into the use of funds from the bonus then it can be argued that the winnings are derived from the deposit only. In the KN case, the player had at one stage lost his deposit balance and used the bonus funds and so he does not have a case to pursue but if the player here had never used the bonus funds why arent the winnings legitimate?

Actually, I fail to see how the casino was disadvantaged if they had deemed the player to have deposited in euros. He deposits in pounds and gets winnings in euros. Casinos should welcome these players with open arms because they would lose their deposits in pounds. Of course, it's even better now to confiscate all winnings. And come off it, I doubt whether it is possible that no player has lost his deposit under similar circumstances and even if so, its highly likely so why Jackpots in a Flash and for that matter, King Neptune answer this simple question or would they rather wait because they havent thought of this before. Just trying to take advantage of the situation IMO.

 

[tepux]

Hi All,

Just to answer a few comments:

1) we are looking into a system that stops incorrect currency but as mentioned this is not an easy thing to do.

2) paying someone in a different currecy is not the way to resolve this issue. The terms and conditions are clear and the player broke the conditions. We refunded the initial deposit so have not done the player any injustice.

3) there has been a lot of talk about honest and dishonest casinos. I am sure you know that over the last few years our group has been above board with everything and always looked after our players.

4) the complete terms are listed below which do state bonuses and winnings will be withheld:
--The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition. An exception is made for USD and CAD to this clause

I hope this clarifies things!

Have a great festive season all.

Kind regards,

Darran
The Palace Group

I do not belive it. the casino representative is not saying the truth!!
The terms stated by the casino representative are not the one valid when I played.
My screen shot proves otherwise. it shows that only bonuses and not winnings can be withhold.

read it yourself !!

 

[spearmaster]

If we use the scenario in the King Neptune case, as long as the bets placed did not dip into the use of funds from the bonus then it can be argued that the winnings are derived from the deposit only.

As I said, KN went out of their way to show that even under the best possible scenario for the player, the player did not meet any conditions.

The issue here is whether or not you are using your deposit BEFORE your bonus - I believe that this whole concept is misunderstood by both players and casinos alike.

First of all, in a land-based casino, you will ALWAYS be using a bonus coupon at the same time as a real bet (for example, "This coupon entitles you to 2x payout on any single play). I have never ever seen a circumstance where any type of bonus can be played without real funds being present.

Let's take a land-based slot club scenario - you get cashback or bonus points on your card, and activate the card. You are asked whether you wish to play your bonus money or NOT. Some people actually prefer to accrue it until it reaches a certain level. Some people immediately play with the bonus money, which is then used BEFORE real money.

Nowhere have I seen a scenario where real money comes into play first before a bonus except in the sole case where you are talking about two different accounts/wallets/whatever. The slot club card is one wallet - you cannot put real funds on that card. Your wallet is one wallet - you cannot put bonus funds into that wallet unless it is able to be turned directly into real funds.

In an online scenario, the two account system has already proven unpopular. So throw out that idea, even if it DOES make sense.

The only reasonable way to consider these online situations is as if the bonus is being played at the same time as the real funds in the appropriate proportion as I have described above. You cannot be playing with real funds before bonus funds, it makes absolutely no sense, unless you REJECT the bonus funds.

Actually, I fail to see how the casino was disadvantaged if they had deemed the player to have deposited in euros. He deposits in pounds and gets winnings in euros. Casinos should welcome these players with open arms because they would lose their deposits in pounds.

Unfortunately, that's nonsensical. No one in their right mind deposits pounds with the INTENTION of winning Euros.

Just trying to take advantage of the situation IMO.

I will again vouch for KN in saying that they had absolutely no intention of taking advantage of the situation. I cannot speak for Palace Group because I do not know the circumstances as well - but I think that, except for the unclear wording which has since been modified, it's quite clear that the player attempted to take an unfair advantage by ignoring a term which was already present in the first place - that is to deposit in the currency of his residence.

 

[The Dude]

...My screen shot proves otherwise. it shows that only bonuses and not winnings can be withhold...

I think you may not understand is that the winnings that were derived from the bonus were voided (thus bonus and winnings are forfeited). I'm sure if you redeposit in Euros (like you should have done), they would give you your bonus based on the new deposit, and you can try it again. Reread what Spearmaster wrote. I think he explained it the best.

Again, you should have confirmed with support when you made that deposit in GBP that everything was cool. I still don't understand why this wasn't done. You read the T&Cs, but you chose not to follow them. Bummer for you.

Funny how whenever I say I'm not going to waste my time on something, I find myself returning to the problem.

 

[spearmaster]

I have never ever seen a circumstance where any type of bonus can be played without real funds being present.

Actually, I lie.

There *are* bonus coupons which entitle you to a free pull on "Easy Money" slot or whatever - you could win a million dollars... blah blah blah...

What they don't tell you is that you win a million or nothing - and that the odds of you winning the million are probably 100 million to one... LOL... and besides every visitor should already KNOW and EXPECT that this is nothing but a gimmick and that they shouldn't even waste their time... but practically every visitor, being an optimist (who walks in with a pessimistic attitude?) will still pull the handle...

But that's beside the point - you aren't given money coupons which can be used to gamble without the presence of real funds. Imagine the line of people waiting to get their free bonus money so they can take a shot at the casino... then they lose... then they get back in line...

The same goes with an online bonus - it has conditions attached (cannot be used at this game, that game, must be played through 8x, etc.) and you cannot really expect the casino to treat your real funds as being in play BEFORE the bonus money. But, being the optimist, you can always try...

 

[kreome]

Her are the facts, I don't understand why you need to be so complicated

1. the player opened his account in GBP

2. he won

3. the terms and conditioned said that if a player open his account in the wrong currency the casino reserve the right to remove the bonus from the account upon cashout

4. the casino refuses to pay the player any winnings

5. the player send an email "but your terms mentioned only removing of the bonus and not confiscating the whole winnings"

5. the casino figure out the mistake, chaneg the terms, and continue to refuse to pay.

6. the player is being accused for braching the terms

This is nonesense, the player should get paid

 

[The Dude]

Her are the facts, I don't understand why you need to be so complicated

1. the player opened his account in GBP

2. he won

3. the terms and conditioned said that if a player open his account in the wrong currency the casino reserve the right to remove the bonus from the account upon cashout

4. the casino refuses to pay the player any winnings

5. the player send an email "but your terms mentioned only removing of the bonus and not confiscating the whole winnings"

5. the casino figure out the mistake, chaneg the terms, and continue to refuse to pay.

6. the player is being accused for braching the terms

This is nonesense, the player should get paid

Okay, I think I know what you are trying to say. You are saying that this should be treated like a "sticky bonus". Correct?

But I believe the way this is structured, all bonus play is void - thus the winnings are forfeited.

 

[kreome]

Casinomeister, there is one fact that you ignore.

The fact the casino changed the terms after the player sent an email.

The player made a mistake by not checking the terms and condition before he opened his account.

If the player had known the terms he would not have opened it in GBP giving the casino a reason not to pay.

But then he found out,hmmm....., the casino also made a mistake...

They wrote only bonus will be forfeited.

Now, if the situation was that the player is a fraudster, someone that did not come to risk his funds and play. If the situation was just trying to take advantage of the casino I would say leave it, the casino made a honest mistake in the terms.


Here the situation is totally different. The casino put a problematic term at the first place and not only that they made a mistake and mentioned only bonus to be forfeited and not entire winnings, therefore the player should be paid.

Jackpot Factory group also added a rule that you can't open in GBP

I made a mistake and opened in GBP but before they put the bonus they closed the account and told me that I should open an account in USD

This is how it should be, not to put the bonus let him play win and then correct terms after he begs for his money.

this is not the way to treat a player.You approvsed this casino and u must see something is wrong with this casino , not talking about the other case with gamblingman.