Techical error could cost me ??

[hadeel]

Dear members

I have been around for a while and made some very big wins as I showed on the winner screenshots forum. Now I have a difficult situation on my hand I don't know what to do exactly so I would like to ask for your professional opinion, this is what happened:

I was playing add a playtech casino wich i reveal the name later from, if I come to a solution (it's a reliable playtech casino).
I was playing cops and robbers with over a 1000 euro of balance I was tilting allot of the almost free spins and bonus games they gave me ( did not hit!) I was tilting a little bit from that. And I raised my bet size to 60 euro a spin! I must be the luckiest man alive I tought I won the FREE GAMES in 2 spins !!

Then a big disapointment came up, the game got stuck when I had to choose one of the badges to reveal how much free games I have.



I couldn't click start the freespins anymore or anything like you see on the picture I tried the instant casino had the same technical error. After mailing back an forward with the support to fix the problem they just reset my game. and gave me a 1960 euro balance. This is the email they send me:

" Dear xxx,

I am contacting you in regards to your account with us and the technical issue that you reported.
Let me inform you that our technical department cleared the game that was stuck and added the relevant winnings from that game - €1,960.00.
The funds are already available in your account and you can log in and play.
In case you have further questions, we will be more than happy to assist you. We are available 24/7."

Well IMO this is a really poor pay out from such a high variance slot I played this slot allot and to get the free spins it's a rare thing! And everytime I had them i got like a 70x or 100x bet well everything is possible I have peace with it so I send an email back that I will agree with there arrangement if they could provide me with the game history and the screenshots from the free games so I could see with my own eyes what has happened, after that email they contacted me 2 days later with this email:

" Dear XXX,

Thank you for contacting Customer Service.
Please note that we have checked the matter in regards to your requested screenshots with our technical team.
Unfortunately it is technically not possible for us to send the requested screenshots. However the outcome of your spins checked by our server specialists and they can confirm that the amount of your winnings is the same as discussed previously and as already credited to your account.
If you have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us. Our Customer Service Support is available to you 24/7. "

So I looked in the casino ad my balance and game history and could'nt find anything about the history on my game only that the casino put a bonus amount of 1960 euro in my account underneath is a screenshot



Then I looked add the play history of my game and I only see my first bet of 60 euro, the second one I had the freespins it looks I never had any freegames :




So in the picture of my history it looks like there never had been any free games the casino, just put manual 1960 euro in my account I don't know if I want to agree to this because they said they checked the outcome with a server specialist how is this possible if you have to choose 3 options for the freegames. And how can this server specialist can be trusted when I don't see any proof add all. For all I care it could be a 1000x(60k) bet win and they only give like a 32x bet win, wich is very low for this game

So shortly asked, do I need to aggree with there terms and just take them from there word or is there anything else I could do here? I would really like some opnions from this well respected gambling community.

Thank you.

Regards

Hadeel

 

[Balthazar]

So they knew the result of the free spins even if they weren't played yet. I believe them.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I would expect the casino to be able to get the game records from Playtech themselves, the central game server should have a record of the transaction - either the transaction was completed or it wasn't.

This is a nightmare scenario for a player, a very big bet has been made and a technical glitch has occurred. OK fair enough these things can happen, but what concerns me here is the complete failure of the software to cope with it, and the failure of the casino in producing a log of what happened.

I presume hadeel that the €60 for the wager was definitely deducted from your balance at the time? If this happened then it should appear on your playlog.

 

[lnspin]

Once you click the spin button how much you win is already known.. The pick em is only eye candy

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Once you click the spin button how much you win is already known.. The pick em is only eye candy

Well yes, that's the entire point, why is there no record of the bet in the player's history?

I would expect the game to resume after a reload, and/or for it to show in the player's history, and certainly for the casino to be able to produce a log of the transaction.

 

[dunover]

Well yes, that's the entire point, why is there no record of the bet in the player's history?

I would expect the game to resume after a reload, and/or for it to show in the player's history, and certainly for the casino to be able to produce a log of the transaction.

And I notice the 1960 is credited under 'bonus' - I hope it's cash and no WR!

 

[suomikala87]

I had a similiar problem earlier this year with a playtech game called Atlantis Queen. I triggered the freespins and after seven spins the game kicked me out and paid 300€ to me with a screen saying something about exceeding a limit per a winning spin. I contacted the support (played at Omni casino) and within 48hours I had a complete log of the freespins in my email (including screenshots of every spin which there were 14 total). Paid just under 700€ afterall. So in my experience they should be able to provide you with every detail of those spins you never saw, hopefully you'll get it sorted out alright and your mind set at ease

 

[chayton]

And I notice the 1960 is credited under 'bonus' - I hope it's cash and no WR!

Good catch.

In this game (as with all Playtech games) it's possible to have a really good or a really bad FS round. And the player may have gotten the minimum amount of spins too - lol, that's normally what happens when you're betting high!

I don't know how possible it is or not to get the screen shots for the spins, but IMO it isn't necessary since the outcome is already known at the trigger. And from the OP's screenshots it looks like the last bet was for 60 and was deducted.

 

[sparkz]

I don't see the problem.

Free spin results are always determined before the free spins start. I wouldnt say every casino logs each free spin outcome. It chooses an amount for the player to win before the spins start then pays that amount across the spins. Just like a "pick me" style bonus, free spins are just a bit more eye candy (A longer video if you like).

The thread title is misleading... no way did a technical error cost you 60k. They paid what the free spin winnings were picked as, you just missed the eye candy of the spins.

Its not unusual for high bets to pay sod all.

I know of people who bet around 60 euros a spin for 1000's of euros, hit numerous bonuses which paid sod all. Whereas when betting 1 euro they have often got more from the bonus.

I know in my experience when I used to bet £20 a spin on a few slots I hit quite a few bonus rounds, however the wins were poor and little over a few £100. Whereas iv hit more than that amount on a bonus round that cost just a few quid.

 

[Slotster!]

It is annoying when the software doesn't let you do the fun bits! I think Microgaming are probably the best/most reliable in that whenever I've had a disconnection issue - the software has always dropped me right back in where I left off.

As others have eluded to, once you hit spin - the server decides the financial outcome and spits it back at you. This could be a single spin, a free spin session, a bonus round or whatever - it doesn't matter. The outcome of your transaction is always going to be whatever the server says it is. In this case, it was 32x your bet. Which is a nice result.

Congratulations on a great win!

 

[bigjohn]

Is the idea that the freespins total is determined at the triggering point a 'Playtech only' thing?

The only time I've ever read on this forum about how that works from someone who would know was from Enzo at 3Dice and he said on their slots the freespins work like any other spins. The number of freespins may be determined at the trigger but the amounts should not be.

 

[dionysus]

I'd think the amount would be, as when you trigger the free spins, the system 'grabs' the free spins and sends them to your computer; and would know the total of what would be won when it sends them..doesnt mean the free spins are any less random by what are grabbed

 

[Slotster!]

On the old Microgaming software - you could sometimes see your 'end' balance before the free spins finished. I reckon that's pretty conclusive...

 

[Jasminebed]

Even if you didn't get to see the freespins on your end, the result was generated on their end, and failed to transmit to your end. It's hard to take these things on faith, but I don't think there's really another choice in your case. I had a problem a while ago at Omni with a Playtech slot (Rocky) had to wait over a weekend for results. When they were unable to get the freespins to reload and play, I was told I probably would just be credited the amount it would have paid, that it was not always possible to reproduce it. In my case, they did manage to unstick it so I could play it, but it looks like at times they can't.

When Aztec first came out at 3Dice I had an issue with hitting both bonus rounds at once, and couldn't play it out properly (other players too). They spent a long time with me, more than a few inconvenience bonuses, and finally had to give up and just tell me what it paid.

I think that 30x bonus rounds are pretty normal, if the casino was out to cheat you they probably wouldn't have paid out almost 2K.

 

[petr1]

I don't think 30x bet is too uncommon in this slot. It rarely gives freespins, and last time I won 50e with over 30 freespins and 1e bet.

 

[mrmark21]

I'm confused where did the Op get 60K from?

 

[stokes]

I'm confused where did the Op get 60K from?

It is the best payout the OP could have got according to them.

From the opening post:

"For all I care it could be a 1000x(60k) bet win and they only give like a 32x bet win, wich is very low for this game"

 

[Nifty29]

I'm confused where did the Op get 60K from?

The answer is......out of thin air.

Its like getting booted out when you hit the wild desire on IR, and coming back to a 30xbet win, and then complaining that you'd been ripped off 3mil+ coins because you reckon it should have been 5 wilds I.e. it is ridiculous.

Thread title is quite misleading.

 

[mrmark21]

The answer is......out of thin air.

Its like getting booted out when you hit the wild desire on IR, and coming back to a 30xbet win, and then complaining that you'd been ripped off 3mil+ coins because you reckon it should have been 5 wilds I.e. it is ridiculous.

Thread title is quite misleading.

Yeah I thought so... I'm just interested to hear whatever in the world made the Op think they had lost 60K? I mean why 60K? Why not even as you said 3mil? Whatever gave the Op the impression they had lost 60K?

That's misleading and I'm interested to hear the Op's explanation.

 

[KasinoKing]

Yeah I thought so... I'm just interested to hear whatever in the world made the Op think they had lost 60K? I mean why 60K? Why not even as you said 3mil? Whatever gave the Op the impression they had lost 60K?

That's misleading and I'm interested to hear the Op's explanation.

To be fair he never said he HAD lost 60K; the title reads "Technical error could cost me 60K?"
All he was saying is that he believe the maximum one can expect to with during the free-spins is about 1000 x bet, which would have been 60K if he had been very lucky.
But due to the technical "glitch" he didn't get to see the free-spins play out.

This is a bit of a nonsense thread, though I can understand the OP's frustration that the software does not behave the way one would hope all softwares should, and replay the bonus round in full when an error like this occurs.

KK

 

[chayton]

I was playing once at 3Dice and got disconnected during free spins, I had retriggered a couple of times and when it booted me I got the message to replay the game - it started again at the beginning and I had to do the whole thing over again. I can't remember if it was on real play or tourney play though.

 

[Marie2473]

Like someone said before they should be able to retrive this from Playtech - HOWEVER I do not think that they have tricked you. This game is possible to have "low" wins on as well, and the freespins are pre-determained before u even press spin.

If this is a reputable (accreddited casino) I am sure it is all in order - BUT make sure that it is not a Bonsu with WR that they gave u!

 

[hadeel]

Thank you for the great replies, Sorry if it was misleading for some people the 60k win, I was trying to draw some attention for this topic

Didn't had time to resolve the problem yet , I have send an email today or they still cannot retrieve the screenshot of my Free Games,and that is quite normal procedure in this scenario.( as I can read in this thread) The casino is quite reputable I have been a long time customers and had some great pay outs from this casino. So if they cannot provide me with the screenshot I will just leave it at that as I have been treated well in the past.

I will give an further update when the casino replies...

Regards

Hadeel.

 

[KasinoKing]

Thank you for the great replies, Sorry if it was misleading for some people the 60k win, I was trying to draw some attention for this topic

What about misleading us about your location?
When you started this thread your location said "South Africa", now it says "Netherlands".
So where are you exactly???

Also, please can you confirm which currency your casino account is in?

Thanks,
KK

 

[bigjohn]

Thank you for the great replies, Sorry if it was misleading for some people the 60k win, I was trying to draw some attention for this topic

Didn't had time to resolve the problem yet , I have send an email today or they still cannot retrieve the screenshot of my Free Games,and that is quite normal procedure in this scenario.( as I can read in this thread) The casino is quite reputable I have been a long time customers and had some great pay outs from this casino. So if they cannot provide me with the screenshot I will just leave it at that as I have been treated well in the past.

I will give an further update when the casino replies...

Regards

Hadeel.

Well, you certainly did draw attention to it. Next time you post with a problem you may have a difficult time getting any attention at all. Most of the members here don't like getting played.

 

[hadeel]

What about misleading us about your location?
When you started this thread your location said "South Africa", now it says "Netherlands".
So where are you exactly???

Also, please can you confirm which currency your casino account is in?

Thanks,
KK

I am from the Netherlands I don't know why it did say South Africa not from my knowledge. Currency was euro

 

[hadeel]

Hello Everybody,

This is my latest responds from the casino

" Regarding your query, please note that the reason why we are unable to provide you with the screen shots you had requested is that the game was in an error state. The outcome was checked by our server specialists from logs.
We kindly ask for your understanding on this matter."

I think there is nothing much to do more to get the screenshots from the casino I will continue my play, it is going to be another slot I don't want such an error again, what is the fun of playing slots when you can't see the graphics.

Would like to thank everybody again for his/her great services. If i win another 5 figures amount I will post in the winner screenshots!

Regards

Hadeel

 

[Simmo!]

I fixed the thread title as it's a bit misleading.

 

[KasinoKing]

I am from the Netherlands I don't know why it did say South Africa not from my knowledge. Currency was euro

My bad, it never said SA - I got this thread confused with another one - bit of a brain-fart there!
Sorry 'bout that

KK

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hello Everybody,

This is my latest responds from the casino

" Regarding your query, please note that the reason why we are unable to provide you with the screen shots you had requested is that the game was in an error state. The outcome was checked by our server specialists from logs.We kindly ask for your understanding on this matter."

I think there is nothing much to do more to get the screenshots from the casino I will continue my play, it is going to be another slot I don't want such an error again, what is the fun of playing slots when you can't see the graphics.

Would like to thank everybody again for his/her great services. If i win another 5 figures amount I will post in the winner screenshots!

Regards

Hadeel

THIS is the worrying bit. Have they REALLY checked the outcome from the server transactions or have they fudged the amount statistically. The problem is that they flatly refuse to provide these logs to the player, claiming it is "technically impossible". This is bullshit, if their server specialist can get the actual results, then they can be sent as data to the player, and indeed reconstructed into the "eye candy" of screenshots if so desired (not that this last step would make much difference).

What is even more worrying is the fact that this kind of thing can happen in the first place, and there not being a procedure available to simply "unstick" the game so that the player can play from where they left off.

This kind of thing makes us question what the REAL game is that we are playing. We expect that the outcomes will be both random and fair, having a "natural" distribution of outcomes based on the elements being represented by the "eye candy" output. In this case, the game got stuck at the pick stage, and only the number of free spins should have been determined at this stage. To get the result, the server would then have to execute those spins as separate random events in the same way that normal spins are executed. Instead, they have determined the outcome from the number of free spins, and are resisting the production of any logs that demonstrate that the server has actually played the spins. If the server CANNOT play the spins because of this technical failure, and they have been forced to make an estimate, they should say so.

Cases like this where an amount is paid to the player, but what actually happened is kept behind a wall of secrecy, only serve to fuel the idea that we are being had, and that these technical errors are the result of the non random "rigging" element going wrong when producing the game result.

We have enough ACTUAL cases of operators and software providers using "gaffed" games that they have gotten away with for years before being caught out that we now KNOW that there is a good chance that other "gaffed" games are out there, but have yet to be found out.

If the total outcome of a set of free spins comes from a probability table rather than the execution of actual spins via the usual process used in normal play, then this is a "gaffed" game, not an honest one.

 

[hadeel]

Same error casino omni new slot Highway kings pro

Dear Members again issues with a new playtech slots, for me personal it's the best slots there is, only with these errors it is hard to play on them. Game got stuck before entering the free games again I won 22 free games with 3 multiplier.It got stuck while loading them see screenshot




The responds from the casino was : We have checked your games and can confirm that you have an unfinished broken game from 2013-06-08.

Please clear your Internet Explorer cache and re-launch the game. Alternatively we can reverse the game manually however, all possible winnings will be lost and only the initial bet returned (in this case 0, as this is the bonus round).

Please let us know if you require us to reverse the games.

It's a shame I am thinking about switching to another SW.
Anybody else has issues with the new playtech slots?

Regards

Hadeel.


P.s everything is up to date with my computer flash java latest IE

 

[hadeel]

Once you click the spin button how much you win is already known.. The pick em is only eye candy

So there is no difference in what you have to choose for triggering the free spins?
For example if you have to click on 1 of the 3 scatters to trigger your freespins the outcome would be the same.
scatter1 15 freegames
scatter2 30 freegames
scatter3 40 freegames.

Doesn't matter what scatter I click the outcome will always be the same?

 

[Jasminebed]

For Highway Kings, you pick a truck, and I'm pretty confident doesn't matter which truck you pick, you will get whatever you are meant to get when it's revealed.

If you have a game like MG's Loaded, or Net Ent's Piggy Riches where you get to choose freespins and multipler, it probably does make a difference, but once you've made your pick, your results are generated.

Obviously to void your bet (and seriously, you made a bet to trigger those freespins, you should not get 0, you should get your bet back) is not a good choice.

You have a screenshot, the casino agrees the game was interrupted, try their advice to relaunch it. I've had lots of those at different platforms and it usually works. The two occasions where it didn't I talked about earlier in this thread.

Also, if you don't have success with restarting the game, wait for Monday and the tech team. Don't forget to try a reboot of your computer, not just clearing cache.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Dear Members again issues with a new playtech slots, for me personal it's the best slots there is, only with these errors it is hard to play on them. Game got stuck before entering the free games again I won 22 free games with 3 multiplier.It got stuck while loading them see screenshot


View attachment 40308

The responds from the casino was : We have checked your games and can confirm that you have an unfinished broken game from 2013-06-08.

Please clear your Internet Explorer cache and re-launch the game. Alternatively we can reverse the game manually however, all possible winnings will be lost and only the initial bet returned (in this case 0, as this is the bonus round).

Please let us know if you require us to reverse the games.

It's a shame I am thinking about switching to another SW.
Anybody else has issues with the new playtech slots?

Regards

Hadeel.


P.s everything is up to date with my computer flash java latest IE

Is this some kind of joke!

Something on the CLIENT side can break a game so that even "server side" the issue can't be fixed

If this is so, this is a massive backward step to the days when hackers could simply tamper with the web pages shown in the browser and milk the casino for money.

If this could break the game, a browser error (or page hack) could just as easily "make the game", for example, letting the player replay a bonus round he had already played, getting paid twice over.

It also casts suspicion on the other case where apparently the casino was able to get a "specialist" in who could pull the logs from the server to determine the outcome of a similarly stuck game and credit this to the player, yet at the same time be unable to produce these logs to the player on request.

This is the best illustration yet as to why I don't really trust browser based casinos over bespoke download clients. The browser merely "views" stuff, and this is like saying I broke a house just by taking a picture of it with an incompatible camera.

There have been a number of cases where browser based games have "broken", with the player being left out of pocket, or believing so.

 

[hadeel]

Dear Members

I just had contact with Omni casino they had to reset my account they not gave me my outcome of the freespins I had a 9 euro bet on the machine.

The support wrote this :

" I am writing to you regarding your recent free spins technical error on Highway Kings Pro Slot. I have reviewed the matter with our tech team and I have read all of the e-mails between yourself and our customer support teams.

Allow me to apologize for this technical error. While we wish to strive for perfection with all of our games, from time to time games do get interrupted in the online gaming environment. We do have a technical procedure in place that should a game be disrupted, that the system will regenerate that game back to it's original state so that you may finish the game to completion.

However, in some cases the error creating the broken game cannot be overcome and the game cannot be regenerated to completion. In your case, the game could not be completed and the game needed to be ended so that you could continue playing on the account as was detailed to you from our support team.

In these cases, we always issue back the original wager placed.
The very upsetting matter here for each of us is of course that this error occurred as you were entering into a bonus round. These are upsetting and frustrating cases. None of knows what could have resulted in the bonus round as the results are random. Therefore, we cannot predicted what you could have won and therefore it is not possible to issue you assumptive winnings as none of the free spins were played.

We do apologize for this unfortunate game error, however the game state could not be recovered."

They gave me a 20 euro bonus to make it up, what is peanuts of course to the amount you COULD be winning. I even doubt if the other casino, where I had 60 euro bet on a much more high variance slot. Could predict the outcome of my spins. Some of the members are taking this to light, it's a serious matter and a great disappointment for online gambling. It's also a software issue maybe it's time for Playtech to take a look into this matter and start making there slots more stable.

Regards

Hadeel

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This would only ever happen to me ONCE, and ONCE ONLY.

If a round can not be repeated from the server side then something is very badly wrong with the software, and I would never play that software again.

Besides which it'd set my tinfoil hat twitching, after all, what's to say that the server doesn't just suddenly decide to experience a 'technical error' if the RNG returns 2000x stake or more on a big bet?

After all, we had a bent and rigged card game running undetected for years at Betfred, and that was a case where it was pretty easy to prove that the game was fraudulent. You'd never be able to prove the scenario I just outlined above in a million years.

Vote with your wallet.

Casinos and software providers get away with this shit because they can. And because we keep giving them our money.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Dear Members

I just had contact with Omni casino they had to reset my account they not gave me my outcome of the freespins I had a 9 euro bet on the machine.

The support wrote this :

" I am writing to you regarding your recent free spins technical error on Highway Kings Pro Slot. I have reviewed the matter with our tech team and I have read all of the e-mails between yourself and our customer support teams.

Allow me to apologize for this technical error. While we wish to strive for perfection with all of our games, from time to time games do get interrupted in the online gaming environment. We do have a technical procedure in place that should a game be disrupted, that the system will regenerate that game back to it's original state so that you may finish the game to completion.

However, in some cases the error creating the broken game cannot be overcome and the game cannot be regenerated to completion. In your case, the game could not be completed and the game needed to be ended so that you could continue playing on the account as was detailed to you from our support team.

In these cases, we always issue back the original wager placed.
The very upsetting matter here for each of us is of course that this error occurred as you were entering into a bonus round. These are upsetting and frustrating cases. None of knows what could have resulted in the bonus round as the results are random. Therefore, we cannot predicted what you could have won and therefore it is not possible to issue you assumptive winnings as none of the free spins were played.

We do apologize for this unfortunate game error, however the game state could not be recovered."

They gave me a 20 euro bonus to make it up, what is peanuts of course to the amount you COULD be winning. I even doubt if the other casino, where I had 60 euro bet on a much more high variance slot. Could predict the outcome of my spins. Some of the members are taking this to light, it's a serious matter and a great disappointment for online gambling. It's also a software issue maybe it's time for Playtech to take a look into this matter and start making there slots more stable.

Regards

Hadeel

It looks like this is not the usual kind of error down to an interruption of the internet connection, but a more fundamental error with the game server itself. There IS a way around this though that is better than the settlement, and that is to credit the players' account with the cash value that represents the notional stake of the free spins awarded, multiplied by the multiplier of said free spins. For example, if it was 10 free spins with a 2x multiplier, and at a stake of €9, then compensation would be 9x10x2, which is €180. This is sufficient for the player to recreate the free spins they lost out on, and with a random chance of either being ahead or down. It may cost the casino €180, but I am sure they will agree that this error is so rare that this would not expose them to any significant liabilities. If this error is too common for them to make such a settlement, then Playtech has a SERIOUS issue that needs addressing.

It could be even worse if it is entering the bonus round that tends to trigger this error, or players get the impression that this error will only strike them when they are potentially in line for a big bonus round payout.

If the casino doesn't like this idea, then they should be reminded that without this error, the player would have had this much worth of free spins in any case, so the end result would be no more or less favourable than had the game completed correctly.

If a client side error created this problem, they have a serious issue too. This should be impossible.