Swedish license - Should I stay or should I go?

[Matti]

You left out the most significant cost to casinos which is going to be the new 18% tax they have to pay

The 18% is a given and the same no matter how many licenses you have.

The regulation states in general that casinos are not allowed to reward players in return for extending their game play.
For example, they cannot give bonuses, FS or anything else based on doing more wagering or completing a task involving depositing more to earn a prize

Agree on that the WR will disappear so no more deposit bonuses or FS with WR. However other incentives are somewhat unclear how these are to be regarded. The regulation don't say this clear enough. There are room for interpretation.

It also states that you are not allowed to give any discounts/financial incentives in connection with the Game. I believe some casinos will focus on the words "in connection with the Game" and give their player incentives based on that and say that "sure it is a financial incentive BUT not in connection with the Game.

I believe many casinos will have interpreted this so it will be most flexible/favorable for themselves but the fact remains that Spelinspektionen haven't told how the word bonus is to be interpreted and from what they say themselves has no intention doing so at this point.

Exciting times ahead

 

[EGO]

yes , we are definitely in this together

If I feel confused then I can imagine how it feels for you I better wait a few weeks and see what is happening.

True I didn't think of the cost for taxes, since you must have players depositing before you need to pay anything.

 

[deucebag]

This no bonus/free spins/rewards policy should ensure that there will remain a lucrative market in Sweden for unlicensed casinos. Players like bonuses, and will act accordingly.

 

[zap987]

Well, not so much unlicensed as licensed somewhere else in EU. I can't really see what a casino has to gain from getting a swedish license, when players can just continue playing on other sites where they can get bonuses and such, as long as they don't play in SEK and the site isn't in swedish.

 

[Tirilej]

Well, not so much unlicensed as licensed somewhere else in EU. I can't really see what a casino has to gain from getting a swedish license, when players can just continue playing on other sites where they can get bonuses and such, as long as they don't play in SEK and the site isn't in swedish.

Some that are licensed somewhere else in EU claims that we can keep on playing but will not receive any bonuses or free spins. What EU casino have you heard will be offering bonuses?

 

[dunover]

Dunder have a license for Sweden now and will be remaining there.

 

[Tirilej]

Dunder have a license for Sweden now and will be remaining there.

Yes I did mention that it was 8 besides the gig group at MT Secure Trade that was going to use the license. I just didn't specify them

 

[dunover]

Yes I did mention that it was 8 besides the gig group at MT Secure Trade that was going to use the license. I just didn't specify them

Yeah, fair enough I'm just updating the thread every time I hear confirmation from a casino's affy programme that they have, or are getting a Sweden licence.

 

[Matti]

Well, not so much unlicensed as licensed somewhere else in EU. I can't really see what a casino has to gain from getting a swedish license, when players can just continue playing on other sites where they can get bonuses and such, as long as they don't play in SEK and the site isn't in swedish.

Sweden goes from having been a so called "Grey" market to becoming a "Black" market. This will basically mean that all serious casinos, game providers and payment providers will stop offering their services if the operating casino don't have a license.

You still will be able to play, and get traditional bonuses, at some Curacao licensed casinos with everything that comes with that, and be satisfied with RTG, Rival etc.

 

[Matti]

Mobilebet.com has informed me that they will continue accepting Swedish players. They believe that changing language on the site and in the support and only accepting Euros will be sufficient.

 

[Tirilej]

Mobilebet.com has informed me that they will continue accepting Swedish players. They believe that changing language on the site and in the support and only accepting Euros will be sufficient.

Would they also give out bonuses to Swedes or stop doing that?

I know a few too, but who will stop giving out bonus or free spins. I guess we will have a few to report, and see if anything will happen.

 

[Matti]

Would they also give out bonuses to Swedes or stop doing that?

I know a few too, but who will stop giving out bonus or free spins. I guess we will have a few to report, and see if anything will happen.

This is from a chat with them:
"Due to the new license changes we are currently going to operate under the MGA license where we can still grant out bonuses and offer our shop view, to comply with this we would need to offer our site in English and offer our support in English as well under the new change"

 

[Tirilej]

This is from a chat with them:
"Due to the new license changes we are currently going to operate under the MGA license where we can still grant out bonuses and offer our shop view, to comply with this we would need to offer our site in English and offer our support in English as well under the new change"

Wow, well this seem to get interesting

 

[Borgie]

This is from a chat with them:
"Due to the new license changes we are currently going to operate under the MGA license where we can still grant out bonuses and offer our shop view, to comply with this we would need to offer our site in English and offer our support in English as well under the new change"

This is from a chat with them:
"Due to the new license changes we are currently going to operate under the MGA license where we can still grant out bonuses and offer our shop view, to comply with this we would need to offer our site in English and offer our support in English as well under the new change"

Are the casinos who are paying for a license and adhering to rules not going to kick up about this ??

 

[Matti]

Are the casinos who are paying for a license and adhering to rules not going to kick up about this ??

For sure.

There is something more to this than meets the eye though. Mobilebet is part of The Cherry group who has received 6 separate licenses, for 8 different brands to operate in Sweden. Yet they choose to let two of their brands (it seems they have the same approach with their GetLucky brand) go down this route. Interesting to say the least.

 

[zap987]

Yeah, CO-gaming was the one I noticed so far, they have a couple sites with swedish license, then plenty more with MGA license, so not exactly Curacao, should be fine for players. As I understand it they can't really do anything to stop people playing at casinos regulated in EU. The only thing is that if the casino is aimed at the swedish market and doesn't have a license winnings are taxable, which is why they changed the currency away from SEK to Euros for swedish players. You also can't choose swedish as language anymore for the same reason.

 

[Matti]

Yeah, CO-gaming was the one I noticed so far, they have a couple sites with swedish license, then plenty more with MGA license, so not exactly Curacao, should be fine for players. As I understand it they can't really do anything to stop people playing at casinos regulated in EU. The only thing is that if the casino is aimed at the swedish market and doesn't have a license winnings are taxable, which is why they changed the currency away from SEK to Euros for swedish players. You also can't choose swedish as language anymore for the same reason.

If they can claim that they are not targeting Swedish players they actually might be in the clear. The Swedish legislation seems weaker than for example UK in this respect. I guess they will get a pop-up from the ISP eventually but that will not prevent that much.

Winnings from "games of chance" from anywhere in the EU are, and have been tax exempt, and if they originate from outside of the EU they are taxed as income. There is no difference than before the new law. Not sure how sports bet works though.

I guess all this ads up to that people who likes the old bonus structures(deposit bonus etc) will find good reliable alternatives outside of Sweden, within the EU, and play those.

 

[Tirilej]

I just set my first limits at a casino. I've never had a deposit limit or any kind of limit anywhere ever.

So after 10 years of playing online is it now I need to become responsible?

 

[ternur]

I just set my first limits at a casino. I've never had a deposit limit or any kind of limit anywhere ever.

So after 10 years of playing online is it now I need to become responsible?

Same thing in FI with our local monopoly. I think we even had to take a self assessment test and thoroughly contemplate about gambling in general before getting to the page to set deposit and loss limits in their casino. But the player's responsibility here just means that the player is aware of the fact that the games have awful RTP (well actually that is not mentioned) and you are going to lose a lot easier than in those "evil" foreign casinos.

The same monopoly robs people blind with their so called slots in every supermarket, gas station and bar with a RTP around 90% max (if you're lucky, usually a lot less). They even have the audacity to advertise these very nice RTP's in the tv (since no other operator can do that).

Talk about hypocracity. I really hope we don't get "a regulated model" of doing things here. I'm happy with MGA casinos. Even with some UKGC ones.

 

[Tirilej]

So from today casinos are supposed to be licensed. Suddenly I just had three casinos left
Videoslots which doesn't seem to be ready yet, Casumo and Funcasino. The rest was poff gone closed. Not by me though but ok.

I have so far just been able to try Play'n Go in free battles but what a horrible experience. That's usually fast games, and it still is, except that it's now either a few seconds of lagging before the spin is made, or if you use quickspin the button is black a few seconds before you can spin. So it seems like Play'n Go have put no thought in our experience but took the easy way out.
I know NetEnt will be boring too since they are so extremely slow in normal play.

I hope other providers have done a better job. I can understand the reason for slower spins and I'm fine with it if it's done in a good way.

Have anyone else tried yet?

 

[L&L-Jan]

So from today casinos are supposed to be licensed. Suddenly I just had three casinos left
Videoslots which doesn't seem to be ready yet, Casumo and Funcasino.

Fun Casino = always ready
Being part of L&L of course, the creme de la creme of online gaming companies

I have to admit, we are not 100% in shape, but 98% we are.
Novomatic and Amatic games are still pending.
New bonus system + one bonus per individual on the platform is still pending.
And - to exclude yourself from "a game"!

But thats about it and that will be live tomorrow / the day after.

May the Swedes gamble responsible and with fun, at: L&L Europe.
And in the event you are Swedish and you forgot about a place to try your luck: Karl Casino - Remember that name: Karl Casino!

 

[Tirilej]

Fun Casino = always ready
Being part of L&L of course, the creme de la creme of online gaming companies

I have to admit, we are not 100% in shape, but 98% we are.
Novomatic and Amatic games are still pending.
New bonus system + one bonus per individual on the platform is still pending.
And - to exclude yourself from "a game"!

But thats about it and that will be live tomorrow / the day after.

May the Swedes gamble responsible and with fun, at: L&L Europe.
And in the event you are Swedish and you forgot about a place to try your luck: Karl Casino - Remember that name: Karl Casino!

So if anyone wants to use a bonus on all your casinos then this is the day, or it didn't work at all maybe

I will try and remember Karl but you know I'm slow with new casinos. It can take a few years

 

[Tirilej]

@Guts I read in your information that if I set deposit limits at one of your casinos then they will be the same on the others.

Does that mean if someone set $50 a day and play that on Guts they won't be able to play at any of the others or does it mean they can play for $50 a day on each of them? Rizk, Thrills, Highroller, Kaboo and GutsXpress. You didn't specify.
Also I can't remember reading that information on Rizk or Highroller.

 

[Guts]

Hello Tirilej,

You're correct, this is across all of our brands.

Example: if you set a deposit limit of 1000SEK on Thrills and deposits 500SEK, you will only be able to deposit another 500SEK on any other casino for that limit.

That's now how the limits will work across all our brands for all our licenses.

 

[Tirilej]

Hello Tirilej,

You're correct, this is across all of our brands.

Example: if you set a deposit limit of 1000SEK on Thrills and deposits 500SEK, you will only be able to deposit another 500SEK on any other casino for that limit.

That's now how the limits will work across all our brands for all our licenses.

Is that done by choice or something you had to do? I wonder because there are some companies that have 30 casinos and bingo sites under one license.

Unfortunately I think it's the casinos that will lose out on this set up and in case we don't set a high limit we have to go somewhere else.
Maybe I'm confusing myself too. I've never had a limit anywhere so I don't know if it will effect me in any way.

 

[Borgie]

Is that done by choice or something you had to do? I wonder because there are some companies that have 30 casinos and bingo sites under one license.

Unfortunately I think it's the casinos that will lose out on this set up and in case we don't set a high limit we have to go somewhere else.
Maybe I'm confusing myself too. I've never had a limit anywhere so I don't know if it will effect me in any way.

I agree. Casinos could lose out. If they don't have to do this not sure why they would.

Also could it put people off setting limits as they end up with nowhere to play as they may not realise that say a 100 limit is across all linked casinos .

 

[Guts]

These limits are something you're obligated to set issued by the regulation in Sweden so you can not get around them in any way.

There will be limit pop-ups, when you login to the website itself for the first time after this year, there should be pop-up windows for you that informs you which limits you need to set.

Unfortunately, yes that is something that would happen Borgie, there will sadly be people who don't know that the limit will be across all brands in the group, however, it will not affect the "white labels" under the same licenses though.

 

[casdegen]

Fun Casino = always ready
Being part of L&L of course, the creme de la creme of online gaming companies

I have to admit, we are not 100% in shape, but 98% we are.
Novomatic and Amatic games are still pending.
New bonus system + one bonus per individual on the platform is still pending.
And - to exclude yourself from "a game"!

But thats about it and that will be live tomorrow / the day after.

May the Swedes gamble responsible and with fun, at: L&L Europe.
And in the event you are Swedish and you forgot about a place to try your luck: Karl Casino - Remember that name: Karl Casino!

up to 100% yet?? or still some bugs?

 

[Tirilej]

These limits are something you're obligated to set issued by the regulation in Sweden so you can not get around them in any way.

There will be limit pop-ups, when you login to the website itself for the first time after this year, there should be pop-up windows for you that informs you which limits you need to set.

Unfortunately, yes that is something that would happen Borgie, there will sadly be people who don't know that the limit will be across all brands in the group, however, it will not affect the "white labels" under the same licenses though.

I know you have to set them. So you are forced to use the same limit for all your casinos as if it was one then.

You have no plans to inform the customers that can be effected by this? You did in the information you sent out but why not write it in the pop-up since you will get more customers and the information didn't go out from all of you?

Now how stupid I am. That would maybe prevent you from getting new customers

 

[L&L-Jan]

up to 100% yet?? or still some bugs?

There should be no bug, just the bonuses we need to organize and fix accordingly.
Terms and bonus has been updated on KarlCasino today, the rest will follow tomorrow.
And we need to give you guys the option to block " a game " - goes live Friday.

If you experience issues, plz plz plz plz let me know!

 

[Tirilej]

There should be no bug, just the bonuses we need to organize and fix accordingly.
Terms and bonus has been updated on KarlCasino today, the rest will follow tomorrow.
And we need to give you guys the option to block " a game " - goes live Friday.

If you experience issues, plz plz plz plz let me know!

I guess you have the same as Guts, that any limit I set on Fun casino will be counted in the limit I set for other casinos in your group too?

You were the only group honest enough to tell about game restrictions when you sent out information. Will you tell about this also?

 

[Guts]

I know you have to set them. So you are forced to use the same limit for all your casinos as if it was one then.

You have no plans to inform the customers that can be effected by this? You did in the information you sent out but why not write it in the pop-up since you will get more customers and the information didn't go out from all of you?

Now how stupid I am. That would maybe prevent you from getting new customers

I can only inform you all the information that is in the email that was sent out, it was done by our legal team. I'll forward the feedback to our responsible gaming team to see what they'll do.

 

[L&L-Jan]

I guess you have the same as Guts, that any limit I set on Fun casino will be counted in the limit I set for other casinos in your group too?

You were the only group honest enough to tell about game restrictions when you sent out information. Will you tell about this also?

Yes. We shall appy the same limits and/or SE on all your accounts.
Self exclusion goes live today, script is already running and crosschecking accounts and applying the same SE on all.
Limits shall be done tomorrow.

 

[Tirilej]

So it seems like there is no point for anyone to have more than one account per casino group then.
One bonus, one limit.

I do understand the reason for you to have them all out there though, and since it doesn't cost more then it doesn't matter for the groups.
Personally right now I feel I will cut down my playing to a minimum. Maybe even stop totally. The fun of it is more or less gone with all the control and worse game experience.
Maybe that was the purpose

 

[SizzlingSteak]

Hi,

Saw this thread and got a bit curious about the forced limits. Yesterday i signed up at Ninja Casino, who has a Swedish license, but i was never asked to fill in any limit credentials. From what i understand after reading up on this it goes against the new legislations, so what i am thinking of doing is to demand a full refund of my money! Ninja surely can't say no since they would risk loosing their license and they are clearly not in line with the legislation in this case?

 

[Tirilej]

Hi,

Saw this thread and got a bit curious about the forced limits. Yesterday i signed up at Ninja Casino, who has a Swedish license, but i was never asked to fill in any limit credentials. From what i understand after reading up on this it goes against the new legislations, so what i am thinking of doing is to demand a full refund of my money! Ninja surely can't say no since they would risk loosing their license and they are clearly not in line with the legislation in this case?

Why would you do that? Did you not play? Had you returned the money if you won? Please explain a bit more.

Most casinos aren't ready with everything yet, but I'm sure they are doing the best they can.

 

[SizzlingSteak]

Hi Tirilej!

I haven't done it, i just noticed the opportunity since they are obviously breaking the law and wanted to hear the threads thoughts about it? I mean hypothetically this is something i could do and get on the plus side with right?

 

[L&L-Jan]

Hi,

Saw this thread and got a bit curious about the forced limits. Yesterday i signed up at Ninja Casino, who has a Swedish license, but i was never asked to fill in any limit credentials. From what i understand after reading up on this it goes against the new legislations, so what i am thinking of doing is to demand a full refund of my money! Ninja surely can't say no since they would risk loosing their license and they are clearly not in line with the legislation in this case?

Isnt that an instantplay casino and thus your bank has limits imposed? Please check that carefully, otherwise they just might close your account for trying to get the money back without full know how of the law.
Although we as a Casino ask to set limits, we could also apply reasonable system limits. So there is more behind "the limits" story.

 

[Matti]

Hi Tirilej!

I haven't done it, i just noticed the opportunity since they are obviously breaking the law and wanted to hear the threads thoughts about it? I mean hypothetically this is something i could do and get on the plus side with right?

Just because someone breaks the law doesn't make it ok for you to commit an offence without any consequences, since this is basically a fraud your a "hypothetically" writing about.

Please also note the Forum Rule:
1.12 - Postings that incite fraudulent player activity are not welcome and will probably be deleted. Members who encourage fraud will probably be kicked to the curb.

 

[Tirilej]

Just because someone breaks the law doesn't make it ok for you to commit an offence without any consequences, since this is basically a fraud your a "hypothetically" writing about.

Please also note the Forum Rule:
1.12 - Postings that incite fraudulent player activity are not welcome and will probably be deleted. Members who encourage fraud will probably be kicked to the curb.

Wow, I thought you were talking to me. I saw my name but I had missed his post.

Thanks! You say everything so much better and nicer than I do

 

[L&L-Jan]

Hi Tirilej!

I haven't done it, i just noticed the opportunity since they are obviously breaking the law and wanted to hear the threads thoughts about it? I mean hypothetically this is something i could do and get on the plus side with right?

The "opportunity" is a very lame excuse. If you are looking for those kind of events, you shouldnt be gambling at ALL!

Please take your own responsibilities ASAP! Not trying to be clever on the 4th day the legislation kicked in.

And if I find out who you are, I will ban you on all our products. As I'm pretty comfortable you shouldnt be gambling in general at ALL and you should sing up, ASAP at spelpaus.se.

This is just really, really sad what you are trying to accomplish now. Trust me, try to get your money back and no Swedish operator will accept your customs from that day onwards!

And CM admin, you can close my account for making this bold statement. Thats fine!

Kr. Jan

 

[homerbert]

Hey @SizzlingSteak

Tbh, I can sign what Jan wrote to you. It is just incredible and sad. Earlier today I already sent your post to my other colleague and we both understood that people like this...Make industry much more worse.

Yep, there are bad operators. But I guess(well basically I KNOW it ) there are bad players too.

Quit gambling and enjoy life, seriously.

Br,

V.

 

[Tirilej]

The "opportunity" is a very lame excuse. If you are looking for those kind of events, you shouldnt be gambling at ALL!

Please take your own responsibilities ASAP! Not trying to be clever on the 4th day the legislation kicked in.

And if I find out who you are, I will ban you on all our products. As I'm pretty comfortable you shouldnt be gambling in general at ALL and you should sing up, ASAP at spelpaus.se.

This is just really, really sad what you are trying to accomplish now. Trust me, try to get your money back and no Swedish operator will accept your customs from that day onwards!

And CM admin, you can close my account for making this bold statement. Thats fine!

Kr. Jan

Normally I'm the angry person. What have getting in to you both...or three now

I understand the feeling. There are so many out there just trying to fool the system. They do anything and believe it's fine.
I've seen a few groups on the net where they teach each other, and I guess you've dealt with a few.

Good that he posted though and I hope he will read the responses too.

 

[homerbert]

Normally I'm the angry person. What have getting in to you both...or three now

I understand the feeling. There are so many out there just trying to fool the system. They do anything and believe it's fine.
I've seen a few groups on the net where they teach each other, and I guess you've dealt with a few.

Good that he posted though and I hope he will read the responses too.

Because both our team and I'm 99% sure Jan team spent hundreds of hours getting all documents prepared, getting system prepared, getting everything ready to be compliant with SGA. And obviously it was done without bad intention, we did not tried to find a way to cheat rules or make some tricks. So while we are doing everything what is possible to be compliant, there are always people who will try to ruin everything just because...Just because they think casino owe them just because they made deposit maybe. I do not know. Or because some people not good. Did not wish to dig more into it atm, not funny at all.

I wish everyone who read this post outstanding weekend! Let's be positive

Br,

V.

 

[L&L-Jan]

I've seen a few groups on the.

That part of your comment, would make the industry much more better, trust me !
Thats the reason why all casino's impose crazy rules.
Question and demand, thats it. But really unfortunate for "normal" players who have no clue they breached rules.

Thats also the reason why I'm really leaning to: No bonuses or incentives in general. For the whole industry.

You play at a casino that takes care of you accordingly. Processes your deposits and withdrawals and adds a compensation if you were unlucky.
Thats my vision of future gambling to be honest.

Will never work im afraid

Kr. Jan

 

[Tirilej]

I guess I shouldn't tell you how I started my career as a bonus hunter/abuser 10 years ago then.....

 

[L&L-Jan]

Thats also the reason why I'm really leaning to: No bonuses or incentives in general. For the whole industry.

You play at a casino that takes care of you accordingly. Processes your deposits and withdrawals and adds a compensation if you were unlucky.
Thats my vision of future gambling to be honest.

Will never work im afraid

Kr. Jan

Marketing alert:

You can find this approach (for Swedish players) at:
NoBonusCasino
KarlCasino
CasinoCasino
Yeticasino (live by Tuesday ish )

All British Casino also went live with 10% cashback, for the non Swedish players.

And there is NoBonusCasino - although no welcome bonus like the others, there is always cashback.

And yes, this is my vision regardign online gambling.
It doesnt mean there no other offers ! Tournaments, Free Spins, Challanges!

Kr. Jan

 

[dionysus]

I guess I shouldn't tell you how I started my career as a bonus hunter/abuser 10 years ago then.....

there's actually a fair few members here
And once upon a time, I'd sign up to every casino and their cousin (lifetimes ago)

 

[L&L-Jan]

I guess I shouldn't tell you how I started my career as a bonus hunter/abuser 10 years ago then.....

Dont get my comment wrong:

YOU HAD ALL THE RIGHT TO DO SO!

But serious, and you still have. But that is the reason why casinos impose weird rules.
So it back fired... this is a neve ending story.

There is an offer and a demand. Some abuse the offer. Some abuse the demand.
Abuse of the demand has been changed due to crazy rules. And to be honest. I never wanted to go that way. Untill I joined L&L in 2013. After reviewing activity, we had to do so

I wish it was never that case.

We had bonus wagering of 20x bonus! Just to give the player a proper chance to win.

Read that again please:

"Just to give the player a proper chance to win"

And that concept/idea has totally dropped, due to the opposite approach from the player perspective.

But yes I know, we are retarted

 

[Tirilej]

Dont get my comment wrong:

YOU HAD ALL THE RIGHT TO DO SO!

But serious, and you still have. But that is the reason why casinos impose weird rules.
So it back fired... this is a neve ending story.

There is an offer and a demand. Some abuse the offer. Some abuse the demand.
Abuse of the demand has been changed due to crazy rules. And to be honest. I never wanted to go that way. Untill I joined L&L in 2013. After reviewing activity, we had to do so

I wish it was never that case.

We had bonus wagering of 20x bonus! Just to give the player a proper chance to win.

Read that again please:

"Just to give the player a proper chance to win"

And that concept/idea has totally dropped, due to the opposite approach from the player perspective.

But yes I know, we are retarted

I probably had because I couldn't understand English that much, and the rules was and still is mostly in English.
I didn't know how the internet worked almost. I was new on that too. Then the bonus rules. Wow...

So it wasn't really on purpose and as soon as I had learnt a bit more I never did anything stupid again.

So what I want to say is that I believe that many simply don't realize they are that bad. They think it's fine and that casinos have so much money that they won't suffer anyway