Suspicious Matching Hands at Player's Vegas

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
I've attached some screen shots from Pai Gow Poker at Player's Vegas. Note that the dealer has straights with the same range of cards as I do. In one case, all 7 cards are the same value. Tie's go to the dealer, so this prevents the dealer from losing or causes him to win. This has been happening to me far more than statiscally expected. At one point, the dealer tied 4 hands in a row, each one preventing me from getting a win.
 

tennis_balls

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Location
Albuquerque, NM
these hands seem pretty normal for pai gow.....i have no idea of the reputation of wager21 software.....you might do a search here and see what comes up

i just checked and casinomeister has wager21 listed as "under observation" which to me translates as "dodgy"
 
Last edited:

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
tennis_balls said:
these hands seem pretty normal for pai gow.....i have no idea of the reputation of wager21 software.....you might do a search here and see what comes up
In one of the two hands all 7 cards were the same value. I believe the odds of that in an infinite deck without a joker are:

1/13^7 / 7P7 = 1 in 12,450 . Even with the joker, it is not "pretty normal."
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
It happened again ~30 seconds after typing the previos post... all 7 cards the same value with a straight.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
I'm no math head, but I do play Pai Gow at B&M casinos and if I saw that same weirdity more than once in one session, I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Mousey said:
I'm no math head, but I do play Pai Gow at B&M casinos and if I saw that same weirdity more than once in one session, I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.
I playing through a wagering requirement. Even with the extra loss from matching hands, I still have an expected return of ~$125 after the bonus.

I've attached another one without jokers. I haven't seen matching suits, so they may be using single deck, making this even less likely than the numbers above.
 

soflat

Dormant Account
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
It happened 4 times? That is totally amazing.

Could they have accidentally loaded up a new bonus game they were working on???
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Location
Haverhill
I don't know anything about Wager21's pai gow game.

I do know that I saw some oddities in their video poker. I ran some binomial distribution calculations based on what I saw, and determined that there's a 1 in 23,000,000,000 chance that they are dealing a fair video poker game. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're cheating like dogs at the pai gow as well.

NB - I don't have the notes on my video poker observations. But if you'd like to check for yourself, observe how often you draw a pair in their 10s or better game when you hold 1 or 2 high cards. A few dozen trials on their 5-play game should be enough to show a statistical anomaly in several million to 1 range.
 

Annorax

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Location
Iowa
aka23 said:
In one of the two hands all 7 cards were the same value. I believe the odds of that in an infinite deck without a joker are:

1/13^7 / 7P7 = 1 in 12,450 . Even with the joker, it is not "pretty normal."

Is that calculation for a single deck or an infinite deck? Paigow is a single deck game.

Still, this is pretty insane.

@the OP: Have you had one of thse screwy hands where you could use the joker to put an ace high 2 card hand up and force a push? That might be a decent workaround as long as they're not always giving you the straight and two random rags that leave you no options.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
Run, don't walk.

One time with the same value cards is possible but quite rare. Three or four hands is ridiculous.

Three or four hands in a row - I'd ask you to show proof but you've already shown a few screenshots.

No bonus game could possibly cause this to happen - not very funny, Soflat.
 

carramrod

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Location
West coast
How bizarre.

If they're trying to cheat - what a blatently obvious way to do so! Even the least attentive player would notice this kind of anomaly repeating itself over and over again...
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Annorax said:
Is that calculation for a single deck or an infinite deck? Paigow is a single deck game.

Still, this is pretty insane.
For single deck, I get 1 in 92,270

(3/52)^7 * 7P7 = 2.13x10^-9 * 5040 = 1.072x10^-5 = 1 in 92,270
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
It doesn't look like an actual card game is being dealt by the computer ... it looks like it's some sort of bizarre slot machine.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
I sent support & tech an email on Sunday with screenshots. I have not received a reply yet. In the past they have replied to emails within a few hours.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Seems pretty outrageous... Keep us posted on the outcome.
The outcome was all support reps and the manager ignored my emails.

I foolishly tried another wager21 casino today. A 200% bonus with 10xB wagering sounds very promising. Unfortunately, I only won 6% of $10+ hands in Pai Gow poker. I'm definitely not going to clear the bonus on this game! At least I didn't draw any matching hands this time.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
The outcome was all support reps and the manager ignored my emails.

I foolishly tried another wager21 casino today.

I just don't get it...You start a thread about casino software that you feel is dodgy, you get feedback that shows the long and short of things, then you go and deposit into another casino using the same software...:eek:
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
I just don't get it...You start a thread about casino software that you feel is dodgy, you get feedback that shows the long and short of things, then you go and deposit into another casino using the same software...:eek:
Last time I came out ahead, in spite of the dodgy SW. With random SW, the bonus has an average return of ~+$400 using optimal strategy. Even with some non-random elements, there is a good chance I can come out ahead again.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Last time I came out ahead, in spite of the dodgy SW. With random SW, the bonus has an average return of ~+$400 using optimal strategy. Even with some non-random elements, there is a good chance I can come out ahead again.

I see what your say (not to be confused with understanding). What I'm having a hard time rationalising is why you'd bother starting a thread asking if people think the card out comes were iffy?

You get the answers from people including Spearmaster who knows a thing or two and then you go drop more cash at a casino that uses the same software.

Reminds me of a Homer Simpson episode where Homer touches the stove, gets his hand burnt and keeps touching the thing wondering why his hand gets burnt :rolleyes:
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
I see what your say (not to be confused with understanding). What I'm having a hard time rationalising is why you'd bother starting a thread asking if people think the card out comes were iffy?

You get the answers from people including Spearmaster who knows a thing or two and then you go drop more cash at a casino that uses the same software.

Reminds me of a Homer Simpson episode where Homer touches the stove, gets his hand burnt and keeps touching the thing wondering why his hand gets burnt :rolleyes:
Having a good chance of gaining several hundred dollars was worth the risk of dealing wth the SW to me. I might gain $200 with the non-random SW instead of the expected $400 with random SW, but I still am likely to come out ahead.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I just don't get it...You start a thread about casino software that you feel is dodgy, you get feedback that shows the long and short of things, then you go and deposit into another casino using the same software...:eek:

Why deposit? The stuff compulsive gamblers(including me) are made up of.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
Nice to see your posting Spearmaster, haven't seen you round for a while or I've not been where your posting.

:)

Hey Trezz -

Been damn busy lately - and just in the middle of a trip now, was with the Meister the other day in Vegas.

Keeping the posting to a minimum now as my time is much more limited, but still around nearly every day.
 
Top