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Suspicious Matching Hands at Player's Vegas

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by aka23, Jul 17, 2006.

    Jul 17, 2006
  1. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I've attached some screen shots from Pai Gow Poker at Player's Vegas. Note that the dealer has straights with the same range of cards as I do. In one case, all 7 cards are the same value. Tie's go to the dealer, so this prevents the dealer from losing or causes him to win. This has been happening to me far more than statiscally expected. At one point, the dealer tied 4 hands in a row, each one preventing me from getting a win.
     
  2. Jul 17, 2006
  3. tennis_balls

    tennis_balls Dormant account

    Occupation:
    fish n chips promoter
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    these hands seem pretty normal for pai gow.....i have no idea of the reputation of wager21 software.....you might do a search here and see what comes up

    i just checked and casinomeister has wager21 listed as "under observation" which to me translates as "dodgy"
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  4. Jul 17, 2006
  5. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    In one of the two hands all 7 cards were the same value. I believe the odds of that in an infinite deck without a joker are:

    1/13^7 / 7P7 = 1 in 12,450 . Even with the joker, it is not "pretty normal."
     
  6. Jul 17, 2006
  7. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    It happened again ~30 seconds after typing the previos post... all 7 cards the same value with a straight.
     
  8. Jul 17, 2006
  9. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    I'm no math head, but I do play Pai Gow at B&M casinos and if I saw that same weirdity more than once in one session, I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.
     
  10. Jul 17, 2006
  11. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I playing through a wagering requirement. Even with the extra loss from matching hands, I still have an expected return of ~$125 after the bonus.

    I've attached another one without jokers. I haven't seen matching suits, so they may be using single deck, making this even less likely than the numbers above.
     
  12. Jul 17, 2006
  13. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    It happened 4 times? That is totally amazing.

    Could they have accidentally loaded up a new bonus game they were working on???
     
    3 people like this.
  14. Jul 17, 2006
  15. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    I don't know anything about Wager21's pai gow game.

    I do know that I saw some oddities in their video poker. I ran some binomial distribution calculations based on what I saw, and determined that there's a 1 in 23,000,000,000 chance that they are dealing a fair video poker game. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're cheating like dogs at the pai gow as well.

    NB - I don't have the notes on my video poker observations. But if you'd like to check for yourself, observe how often you draw a pair in their 10s or better game when you hold 1 or 2 high cards. A few dozen trials on their 5-play game should be enough to show a statistical anomaly in several million to 1 range.
     
  16. Jul 17, 2006
  17. Annorax

    Annorax Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Poker
    Location:
    Iowa
    Is that calculation for a single deck or an infinite deck? Paigow is a single deck game.

    Still, this is pretty insane.

    @the OP: Have you had one of thse screwy hands where you could use the joker to put an ace high 2 card hand up and force a push? That might be a decent workaround as long as they're not always giving you the straight and two random rags that leave you no options.
     
  18. Jul 17, 2006
  19. truevogue

    truevogue Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    Overland Park
    Totally Awesome:lolup:
     
  20. Jul 17, 2006
  21. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Run, don't walk.

    One time with the same value cards is possible but quite rare. Three or four hands is ridiculous.

    Three or four hands in a row - I'd ask you to show proof but you've already shown a few screenshots.

    No bonus game could possibly cause this to happen - not very funny, Soflat.
     
  22. Jul 17, 2006
  23. carramrod

    carramrod Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    West coast
    How bizarre.

    If they're trying to cheat - what a blatently obvious way to do so! Even the least attentive player would notice this kind of anomaly repeating itself over and over again...
     
  24. Jul 17, 2006
  25. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    For single deck, I get 1 in 92,270

    (3/52)^7 * 7P7 = 2.13x10^-9 * 5040 = 1.072x10^-5 = 1 in 92,270
     
  26. Jul 17, 2006
  27. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    It doesn't look like an actual card game is being dealt by the computer ... it looks like it's some sort of bizarre slot machine.
     
  28. Jul 20, 2006
  29. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I sent support & tech an email on Sunday with screenshots. I have not received a reply yet. In the past they have replied to emails within a few hours.
     
  30. Jul 20, 2006
  31. doober

    doober Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    New York
    Seems pretty outrageous... Keep us posted on the outcome.
     
  32. Jul 20, 2006
  33. henryVIII

    henryVIII Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    UK
    Not again !!! :lolup: :lolup: :lolup:
     
  34. Sep 16, 2006
  35. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    The outcome was all support reps and the manager ignored my emails.

    I foolishly tried another wager21 casino today. A 200% bonus with 10xB wagering sounds very promising. Unfortunately, I only won 6% of $10+ hands in Pai Gow poker. I'm definitely not going to clear the bonus on this game! At least I didn't draw any matching hands this time.
     
  36. Sep 16, 2006
  37. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Nice to see your posting Spearmaster, haven't seen you round for a while or I've not been where your posting.

    :)
     
  38. Sep 16, 2006
  39. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    I just don't get it...You start a thread about casino software that you feel is dodgy, you get feedback that shows the long and short of things, then you go and deposit into another casino using the same software...:eek:
     

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