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Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

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I just don't get why it's so hard to understand that random does not mean equal chance.
It's been explained over and over again in this thread by several people.

As mentioned, if you put your hand in a bag and pull out a ball without looking, what ball you would get is random right? So it does not matter if 8 of them a green and 2 of them are white, it's still random. But your chances of getting a white ball is only 20%.

Don't confuse chance/odds with random.
In it's simplest form, thats how a slot determines if you win or lose. It picks a random number and display the results, most of these numbers are gonna be loses. But it's still random.
 
Bloatgoat said:
I'm still curious about everyone's avg session out of 10.
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I long stopped keeping detailed records. As long as I have fun and the money lasts a reasonable amount of time, I am good.

For what it is worth, I am currently a few £1000 up this year.

I am going to a B&M casino later today and I know that the money will be gone so much faster than if I played it online.
 
Bloatgoat said:
I'm still curious about everyone's avg session out of 10.
Click to expand...
9 will be losing ones, with maybe one being worthwhile to cash out.

In about seven of them I will be up at some point though, even if just briefly :cool:
 
CasinoNinja said:
I just don't get why it's so hard to understand that random does not mean equal chance.
It's been explained over and over again in this thread by several people.

As mentioned, if you put your hand in a bag and pull out a ball without looking, what ball you would get is random right? So it does not matter if 8 of them a green and 2 of them are white, it's still random. But your chances of getting a white ball is only 20%.

Don't confuse chance/odds with random.
In it's simplest form, thats how a slot determines if you win or lose. It picks a random number and display the results, most of these numbers are gonna be loses. But it's still random.
Click to expand...

now change the number of losing balls same game???slots can change the winning and losing spins,still random?
 
suchfun said:
now change the number of losing balls same game???slots can change the winning and losing spins,still random?
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If you change the number of balls your pick is still random... How can you not see that?
 
trancemonkey said:
If you change the number of balls your pick is still random... How can you not see that?
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oh good lord,find another frigging word to use besides Random,when your controlling the spins for loses, payouts and where the percentages of payouts go, how is that random "How Can You Not See That"

then you decide this Random slot is not winning enough so you change the RTP lol yep seems "Random"
the only thing Random about a slot is when I click
 
Rolls eyes
as though random is trances word and not industry wide. Perhaps you should be petitioning the regulatory bodies.
Might want to hit the dictionaries and publishers while you're at it for RNG ...you know where the R stands for random. Then Bryan here in the forum too and then the conferences so everyone can get on board with your definition of random.


and has been explained...to death...casinos can't merely 'change' the rtp. And it's also been explained to death how rhe nature of slots work and the difference in outcome distribution
I don't see why trance..or me..or the membership shouldn't follow the accepted industry standard
But if you beleive so adamantly go out and change the world :)
 
suchfun said:
oh good lord,find another frigging word to use besides Random,when your controlling the spins for loses, payouts and where the percentages of payouts go, how is that random "How Can You Not See That"

then you decide this Random slot is not winning enough so you change the RTP lol yep seems "Random"
the only thing Random about a slot is when I click
Click to expand...


So, what your issue is, if a slot say has 96% RTP, and then the casino lowers it to say.. 95% your odds worsen? Sure it does. But you can still view the RTP in the helpfile at all times, and it's not something a well established casino would do. Videoslots as an example, they always pick the highest RTP possible.
No casino would do what you think you are saying, they don't "flick a switch" when someone is winning on a slot, they don't need to do that, as they have a 4% advantage over the player when the RTP is 96% in the long term they will make money regardless because of the numbers are there for them.

A player may win 20 times in a row, but over 100 millions of spins, the likelyness of that happening to alot of people is not great and the slot will have close to the 96% payout.

When you click the spin button, the outcome is random, it's just more likely to result in a loss then a win.
 
CasinoNinja said:
So, what your issue is, if a slot say has 96% RTP, and then the casino lowers it to say.. 95% your odds worsen? Sure it does. But you can still view the RTP in the helpfile at all times, and it's not something a well established casino would do. Videoslots as an example, they always pick the highest RTP possible.
No casino would do what you think you are saying, they don't "flick a switch" when someone is winning on a slot, they don't need to do that, as they have a 4% advantage over the player when the RTP is 96% in the long term they will make money regardless because of the numbers are there for them.

A player may win 20 times in a row, but over 100 millions of spins, the likelyness of that happening to alot of people is not great and the slot will have close to the 96% payout.

When you click the spin button, the outcome is random, it's just more likely to result in a loss then a win.
Click to expand...

youg uys probably beleave all the hipe and sparkles when some new person wins the 2 million jackpot on his second spin ever on slots at min bet we see every month
 
dionysus said:
if you don't beleive what people explain to you nor the random nature of slots WHY do you play them and participate in a gambling forum? Seems an awful lot of work for something you don't trust in.
Click to expand...

Because people want some sort of confirmation of being screwed all over the place. How hard is that for you to understand?

Really, i'd like to see a POLL on this forum on out of 10 times, the amount of real wins someone is getting on online slots. I think that is LESS then 4 out of 10 times, which is awefully, low.

As a somehow experienced gambler i set my target and usually get as close as possible to it. 7 out of 10 times winning in LANDBASED. Now people in here say yeah landbased blabla 85% this and that and internet is better etc.. Well i have'nt won anything so far so good lately and i played for a lot of money. Proberly more then some people here could afford in 3 months. :D
 
dionysus said:
if you don't beleive what people explain to you nor the random nature of slots WHY do you play them and participate in a gambling forum? Seems an awful lot of work for something you don't trust in.
Click to expand...

I'm up at least 20k a year on slots,does not mean I have to get in line and kiss the industries ass and take everything they say as gospel
 
dionysus said:
re-'then you decide this Random slot is not winning enough so you change the RTP'

my bad. was I to read this as theyre showering you in beneficence?
Click to expand...

speaking of selective reading lol,maybe I'm a streamer that gets those magic wins for more signups,all random for sure

I could be a house player scooping up the big wins and jackpots every week,but no they would never do that,not when they could make 3 percent,frigging operating costs are more than 3 percent
 
dionysus said:
so you're up at least 20k a year on one hand
and on the other the casino is adjusting rhe rtp so you lose.

gosh I almost hope you're right. I'd love to have the casino lower my rtp if I come out ahead 20k each year :)
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where did I say they adjust the rtp so I lose??? are you even on the same thread??
 
suchfun said:
oh good lord,find another frigging word to use besides Random,when your controlling the spins for loses, payouts and where the percentages of payouts go, how is that random "How Can You Not See That"

then you decide this Random slot is not winning enough so you change the RTP lol yep seems "Random"
the only thing Random about a slot is when I click
Click to expand...

We don't change the RTP at all... once the software is loaded on to the machine and the rtp is chosen by the casino, nothing changes. The maths stays the same ad infinitum. Whether you win or lose.
 
trancemonkey said:
We don't change the RTP at all... once the software is loaded on to the machine and the rtp is chosen by the casino, nothing changes. The maths stays the same ad infinitum. Whether you win or lose.
Click to expand...

not gonna look back but i beleave you said they just have to give 24hr notice to change rtp and a bit of googling shows they can and do change the rtp anytime they wish
 
The numbers produced by the Random Number Generator in a slot machine are not truly random because they are the result of a mathematical process. If you knew the formula used and the value of the last random number generated, you would be able to calculate the next random number that would be generated.

The Random Number Generator is more correctly called a "Pseudo"-Random Number Generator. The numbers appear to be random, have many of the properties of random numbers and satisfy many of the tests for randomness, but are not in fact generated by a random process.

pseu·do
ˈso͞odō/
adjective
  1. not genuine; sham.
    "we are talking about real journalists and not the pseudo kind"
    synonyms: bogus, sham, phony, artificial, mock, ersatz, quasi-, fake, false, spurious, deceptive, misleading, assumed, contrived, affected, insincere;
 
I think it's time we realised that where slots are concerned programmed and rigged essentially mean the same thing.We know it's programmed/rigged otherwise the rtp would be unknown.This is how the slot world works and we know it.You either accept it and play or you walk away. My issue is that the word random is allowed to be used to describe the outcome of a spin. Once again definition of random= Proceeding,made, or occurring without definite aim, reason or pattern. Statistics of or characterising a process of selection in which each item has an equal probability of being chosen. Given what is stated above how can slots even remotely be considered random?
 
suchfun said:
The numbers produced by the Random Number Generator in a slot machine are not truly random because they are the result of a mathematical process. If you knew the formula used and the value of the last random number generated, you would be able to calculate the next random number that would be generated.

The Random Number Generator is more correctly called a "Pseudo"-Random Number Generator. The numbers appear to be random, have many of the properties of random numbers and satisfy many of the tests for randomness, but are not in fact generated by a random process.

pseu·do
ˈso͞odō/
adjective
  1. not genuine; sham.
    "we are talking about real journalists and not the pseudo kind"
    synonyms: bogus, sham, phony, artificial, mock, ersatz, quasi-, fake, false, spurious, deceptive, misleading, assumed, contrived, affected, insincere;
Click to expand...
You mean the slots are rigged
 
snorky510238 said:
I think it's time we realised that where slots are concerned programmed and rigged essentially mean the same thing.We know it's programmed/rigged otherwise the rtp would be unknown.This is how the slot world works and we know it.You either accept it and play or you walk away. My issue is that the word random is allowed to be used to describe the outcome of a spin. Once again definition of random= Proceeding,made, or occurring without definite aim, reason or pattern. Statistics of or characterising a process of selection in which each item has an equal probability of being chosen. Given what is stated above how can slots even remotely be considered random?
Click to expand...
because as has been explained often is the distribution isn't even. Noone has ever denied that. You aren't ever as likely to win a large win as a small one or loss. There aren't as many large win outcomes as small ones or nils.
What is random is what the RNG grabs from the pool of all possible outcomes
 
trancemonkey said:
I give up... this time I'm really outta this thread! Time for the Meister Meet :)
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well on the plus side bloat and suchfun can at least share tips and tricks. Bloat can't win online and suchfun is winning hand over fist.

have a beer..or 6..for me
 
ferminkuipers said:
well,well, weighted,I knew it
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well it's always been public knowledge the reels are weighted. It's why everything on the payable doesn't pay the same return :)
less big wins more smaller wins
 
dionysus said:
well it's always been public knowledge the reels are weighted. It's why everything on the payable doesn't pay the same return :)
less big wins more smaller wins
Click to expand...
that is bothering me already
 
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