Sky Vegas Confiscates big wins on their new slot???

[PaaskeDenmark]

Hi guys

This is shocking

We are sorry to inform customers that due to a fundamental technical malfunction with our Treasure Island game, winning pay outs were made in error to accounts playing in Euros on the 2nd and 3rd of February. Following the malfunction, we have suspended access to the Treasure Island game and are conducting a full investigation to understand what went wrong and why erroneous payments were made. We are contacting all affected customers. All other Sky Vegas games are unaffected.

Not only this. But they are also misleading with their promotions. I was one on of those who though i was up for 10% cashback. But no terms and conditions not followed. Have to play 6 days in a row.
This term is not in their Terms and Condition. If have later after studying found it ONLY on their banner/picture of this promo.

But they gave me different explanation >>

Thanks for your email.



The first thing I need to clarify, is that this promotion is not based around deposits alone, it is on stakes.



The second thing I need to make you aware of is that it is also based on 'net losses', i.e. the difference between what you have staked and what you have won. If you win more than you stake, or the difference is less than £1, then you would not incur any net losses, and therefore are not due cashback.



This procedure was made available in the terms and conditions of the offer, and it is considered your responsibility to ensure you are fully aware of what you are partaking in.



I need to stress that regardless of using your spins towards this promotion, they are all valid spins in themselves with the same chance of winning, promotion or not.



I have checked your account, and also the associated data, and it is indeed correct, you are not due anything I'm afraid. As far as I'm aware, we have not messed this promotion up in any way.



I hope that this clarifies the matter.



Kind Regards,


I can live with not getting my 10% i made deposits of just under £200 which I lost. But feel terrible for other players where it is a lot more. Also in regards to winnings on that new slot

What are people's view on this. Maybe I have just totally misunderstood this Promo. But If I made deposit and played slot. And lost total, is that not a Net Loss??

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Here are Terms and Condition from site for this Moneyback promotion >>

Terms & Conditions

Promotion is available to over 18's only.
One offer per customer, household and IP address.
Promotional period runs from 00:00:01 on the 10th January to 23:59:59 on the 31st January 2012.
Enter code MONEYBACK before you play to be eligible for Moneyback.
Entering this promotion makes you automatically eligible to receive News and Offers.
Your Moneyback is non-withdrawable and must be used in its entirety at least once before it can be withdrawn.
The 10% Moneyback will be calculated as 10% of your real play net losses on all eligible games within the promotional period only.
Minimum Moneyback payout is £1 or currency equivalent.
Maximum Moneyback payout over period is £500 or currency equivalent.
Net losses on all mobile games and live dealer games will not be considered when calculating Moneyback.
Qualifying accounts will be credited on or before midnight on 1st February 2012.
Your Moneyback bonus must be used within 7 days, after this time unused Moneyback will be removed from accounts.
Any attempts to manipulate or abuse the bonus will not be tolerated and will lead to immediate exclusion from this and future Sky Vegas promotions.
Any accounts that are identified to be linked to an account already claiming this promotion will not be eligible.
In the case of any breach of these terms and conditions, at the sole discretion of Sky Vegas, we reserve the right to withhold payment of any bonus amount.
In the case of any dispute, Sky Vegas' decision will be final and no correspondence will be entered into.
Sky Vegas reserves the right to amend or withdraw the bonus and/or these terms and conditions at any time.
Entrants will be deemed to have accepted these terms and conditions and agreed to be bound by them when entering this promotion.
This promotion, and any dispute or claim arising out of or in connection with it, shall be governed by and construed in accordance with English law.
You irrevocably agree that the courts of England and Wales shall have exclusive jurisdiction to settle any dispute or claim that arises out of or in connection with this promotion.
Bonne Terre Limited (trading as Sky Vegas) with a registered office address of 41 Victoria Street, Alderney, GY9 3TA) is the promoter of this offer
Sky Betting and Gaming (the Promoter) - 2 Wellington Place, Leeds, LS1 4AP
Gamble responsibly. For more info visit

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

or telephone 0845 6000 133.


Does not state anything about having to play at least 6 days??
Only on that banner/picture in top. I would call it misleading?

And here is link to it >>

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Jennifer]

how disgusting. Its already hard enough to hit a score in a casino, now this? Its not the players fault, its theirs. Pay them their winnings and hopefully we see some lawsuits out of this!

I wonder how many times this happened when players went on extreme losing streaks and the ever so honest casinos contacted their customers saying "we found out you shouldnt be losing so much there is a malfunction here is a refund"!

 

[vinylweatherman]

These cashback promos generally pay on net losses.

If you deposited 200 and played till your balance was zero, you have lost 200. This would also be a "net loss", and due 20 back from this promo. If you lost 200, but then deposited another 200 and got your balance back to 400, then your net loss would be zero, and you would be due nothing from the promo. This is how these promos are understood to work.

The confusion lies in the fact that some casinos advertise deposit bonuses as a "cashback", usually where a bonus is given at the end of a promotional period based on all deposits made in said period. This is how the Jackpot Factory "10% cashback on deposits" promo works. This bonus is credited twice a week based on deposits, and is given regardless of whether there has been a net loss or net win during the period. The only thing that voids the cashback is making a withdrawal before the bonus is credited.

It does seem that Sky Vegas has gotten itself into a mess, and what I find rather worrying is that the slot played differently depending on the currency of the account, and malfunctioned only for those players using Euros. This should NOT be possible if the game is random, and not "compensated" or otherwise "weighted". It suggests that the "Euro version" had a bug that the other versions didn't, which suggests the games are not the same for all currencies.

An honest explanation of the bug, and how it came to affect only Euro accounts, is needed.

I have never seen this slot, so have not experienced how it played, and how it might have gone wrong.

Funny how when games malfunction in favour of the casino there does not seem to be the same rush to put things right; in fact, the main hurdle is to break down the denial of there being any way the game could have malfunctioned, and this has to be done before the casino will even take the complaint seriously.

By confiscating payouts, the casino will have shaken the confidence of players, so I have to presume letting the wins stand and merely disabling the game was not an option because of the extent of the overpayments.

Most players would have probably kept quiet rather than complain they were being too lucky, after all, when players swear a game has malfunctioned because it has eaten deposit after deposit with an RTP of under 50%, the casino will brush aside any concerns and put it down to bad luck. This is going to anger players who saw nothing other than a spell of good luck, and who expected the casino to take THEIR run of bad luck in the same manner expected of players. Instead, they cry "malfunction!", so now need to prove that it WAS a malfunction, and not just an unusual run of luck. A few players probably suspected something was wrong, and may have hammered the game for all it was worth. Such players are likely to pretend they saw nothing other than a run of good luck, but by hammering the game so hard, they made it obvious to the casino that an investigation was needed.

 

[Seventh777]

WoW, this is something that you would not expect from a site that regularly pays out more than £19million a week, also like VWM i`m very interested in how this anomaly only affected those playing in Euro`s , is this is a case of hacking?, as far as the bonus is concerned it does appear to have different T&C`s to normal cash-back promos, anyone thinking of taking legal action against Sky - Good luck in taking Rupert Murdoch to court .

 

[Surasanji]

WoW, this is something that you would not expect from a site that regularly pays out more than £19million a week, also like VWM i`m very interested in how this anomaly only affected those playing in Euro`s , is this is a case of hacking?, as far as the bonus is concerned it does appear to have different T&C`s to normal cash-back promos, anyone thinking of taking legal action against Sky - Good luck in taking Rupert Murdoch to court .

Its hard to get a lawyer to represent you against the Devil.

Seriously though? Just Euros?

I doubt its a case of hacking- I'd like to know more about the game in question.

If its new, and its messing up like this- and this is a /major/ screw up- why wasn't this caught in a testing phase?

Just a lot of questions. I mean- this isn't like putting out a word-processor that doesn't work quite right. This is people's money you're playing with.

I've been practicing my British English: I think the above is what we call bullocks'.

 

[jetset]

I sent SkyVegas a list of specific questions regarding this worrying issue yesterday, and they have responded.

Unfortuntaely the response is none too helpful and disappointing, coming from a major operator like this. It doesn't take us too much further, I'm afraid, and for me conveys an impression of uncaring arrogance.

QUOTE

Thank you for your enquiry. We have communicated with all affected customers and a full investigation is being carried out into the cause of the problem.


Please see below to a link to Sky Betting and Gaming terms and conditions:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

UNQUOTE

 

[Rick Deckard]

WoW, this is something that you would not expect from a site that regularly pays out more than £19million a week.

I wouldn't have thought that they actually pay out that much money in weekly withdrawals. I'd imagine it's just how much is won (though most of the cash won is played back in) in the casino over the course of a year and averaged out.

 

[Reefer]

Its hard to get a lawyer to represent you against the Devil.

Seriously though? Just Euros?

I doubt its a case of hacking- I'd like to know more about the game in question.

If its new, and its messing up like this- and this is a /major/ screw up- why wasn't this caught in a testing phase?

Just a lot of questions. I mean- this isn't like putting out a word-processor that doesn't work quite right. This is people's money you're playing with.

I've been practicing my British English: I think the above is what we call bullocks'.

Lol close but i think you mean BoLLox lol

 

[Seventh777]

I wouldn't have thought that they actually pay out that much money in weekly withdrawals. I'd imagine it's just how much is won (though most of the cash won is played back in) in the casino over the course of a year and averaged out.

This week, Sky Vegas have paid out £17,494,489.86 to lucky winners!

A spokesperson for Sky Vegas comments:

"We are very happy to announce the welcome bonus with our new advert. With an average payout of around £19million every week, and a welcome bonus up for grabs, now is a better time for new customers to join than ever. The welcome bonus offers those new to online gambling, or indeed gambling on the whole, the opportunity to try their hand at our games without risk to their own pocket."

I don`t pull figures out of my ass when I make a comment like that .

 

[SAunnyS72]

HOW ABOUT THIS?

Imagine if a player sends out a mass email to the casinos:

"DUE TO A MASSIVE MALFUNCTION IN MY BRAIN I DEPOSITED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN YOUR CASINO.ALL THESE FUNDS NEED TO BE PUT BACK IN MY ACCOUNT. I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE"

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Sky Vegas are Pathetic. They have just removed all comments who was negative or discussing this problem with confiscating. Around 8 people's comments. Also me included. Trying to wipe their problems under the carpet. This is what they do to their customers :xxx

 

[vinylweatherman]

Imagine if a player sends out a mass email to the casinos:

"DUE TO A MASSIVE MALFUNCTION IN MY BRAIN I DEPOSITED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN YOUR CASINO.ALL THESE FUNDS NEED TO BE PUT BACK IN MY ACCOUNT. I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE"

It happens, it is called a "chargeback", and is considered fraud by the casino.

Sky Vegas don't seem to be able to say what exactly went wrong, and assume it was a malfunction. What if it turned out to be nothing more than a collective run of exceptional luck, or simply the game playing to a much higher RTP than they had expected, but not over 100%, and doing so by design, not malfunction.

Only those players who played at the time can let us know more about what happened, any volunteers?

 

[bsilva028]

It happens, it is called a "chargeback", and is considered fraud by the casino.

Sky Vegas don't seem to be able to say what exactly went wrong, and assume it was a malfunction. What if it turned out to be nothing more than a collective run of exceptional luck, or simply the game playing to a much higher RTP than they had expected, but not over 100%, and doing so by design, not malfunction.

Only those players who played at the time can let us know more about what happened, any volunteers?

if a charge abck is conseidered "fraud" by the casino, so what sky vegas is doing also is "fraud", because malfunction or not its casinos responsability, not players fault.
so its not fair to confiscate any winnings (luck that i cant play there)

to be fair with what they are doing, all the players that deposited there and lost, the deposites should be charged back too saying "sorry it was a malfunction not a fraud"

 

[CasinoBeacon]

Bloody hell, another well known brand doing something questionable I only spotted this thread today, an hour or two after having a discussion with someone about which non-gaming brands would be trusted by the general public if they opened an online gambling site. Will perhaps start a new thread about that later.

Anyway, I've only recently started to promote Sky (I'm an affiliate) and so I'm obviously watching this thread closely, hoping for a nice outcome (which doesn't appear likely). Until then, no more coverage for Sky. I'll also raise awareness at GPWA.

 

[jetset]

The manner in which SkyVegas is handling this reminds me of Betfair's various debacles.... it's very disappointing to see big Brit firms behaving like this.

 

[vinylweatherman]

if a charge abck is conseidered "fraud" by the casino, so what sky vegas is doing also is "fraud", because malfunction or not its casinos responsability, not players fault.
so its not fair to confiscate any winnings (luck that i cant play there)

to be fair with what they are doing, all the players that deposited there and lost, the deposites should be charged back too saying "sorry it was a malfunction not a fraud"

They are citing "malfunction", however have not offered any actual details of what happened, nor presented evidence of an actual malfunction. The term "malfunction voids play" is what casino use in such circumstances, but this means that ALL bets must be void, not just the winning ones.

They have taken it upon themselves to void the winnings BEFORE the outcome of any investigation, or indeed proof of malfunction. This is no different to when a player justifies a chargeback because his awful run could have no logical explanation other than "malfunction", and this is only "in his opinion", rather than there being any actual evidence that he was cheated.

When Betfair thought they had been cheated, they went on a mass chargeback spree, recovering withdrawals already paid to players WITHOUT there being any legal basis other than "we can do it, so we will". This is no different to when a player charges back their loss, and says they did it "because I can, so sue me".

Operators should be setting an example, and they cannot expect players to sit back and be "ripped off" because certain actions are "impolite" among their peer group, when they see operators using every trick in the book, even illegal ones, if it means they can grab the money and put the player in the position of having to sue them, rather than the other way around.

When the bankers screwed up the economy, it was because they put money first, and didn't have to worry about the possibilty that what they were doing could go horribly wrong. They also devised one method after another to bypass the regulations designed to prevent such a disaster, so when it came it was HUGE, releasing all the pent up losses hidden in the system by even more devious trades. This has ensured that bankers and other "big business" is less trusted than ever, and if they can get away with moneygrabbing on this scale, and get off virtually unpunished, and get to keep what they had made, why shouldn't anybody "have a go" if they think they can "beat the system".

In banking, it lead to banks going bust, jobs being lost, and families being made homeless. The equivalent in the casino industry are the "advantage players" who try to "beat the system" that casinos have collectively set up. The casinos try to regulate them, but they keep changing tactics in order to circumvent these regulations. They see no wrong in this, just as operators see no wrong in ensuring they have an unfair advantage over players by basing themselves well out of reach of the laws that players believe protect them from the rogue practices. Betfair's trick was to spin off the casino side and run it from a subsidiary based offshore. This meant that when UK players complained, they found that whilst the sportsbook side would have been clobbered for trying a stunt like this, the regulators here were toothless when it came to dealing with what the casino side did, with the worst punishment being a "don't do that again" from the ASA.

 

[Seventh777]

It happens, it is called a "chargeback", and is considered fraud by the casino.

Sky Vegas don't seem to be able to say what exactly went wrong, and assume it was a malfunction. What if it turned out to be nothing more than a collective run of exceptional luck, or simply the game playing to a much higher RTP than they had expected, but not over 100%, and doing so by design, not malfunction.

Only those players who played at the time can let us know more about what happened, any volunteers?

I really cannot see this as a malfunction...

1). It would affect all casinos that have this slot.

2). Why would it just be Euro`s that are affected?.

To me this looks like a server hack, and as not to bring to much attention to it, was somehow hacked to only payout to those using Euro`s as their currency, either way though, hacking or a software error are reasons to confiscate winnings, but surely, if it were a software glitch than those that lost would receive some form of recompense, whereas, there isn`t many casinos out there that are going to admit to being hacked

 

[Seventh777]

The manner in which SkyVegas is handling this reminds me of Betfair's various debacles.... it's very disappointing to see big Brit firms behaving like this.

Yep, this company is huge, they even took Skype to court a few years ago for a trademark misdemeanour, this really does stink of some form of cover up imho, if this was a real case of the software bugging out then surely a highly detailed report of how/why/what/when should have been released, the more I look at it the more i`m leaning towards a hack, a company this size and knowing the knock on affect bad publicity would bring, would surely just brush it under the carpet, wouldn`t they?.

You have to ask this question also - Just how many people were playing this slot at the exact time it malfunctioned, using Euro`s as their currency?.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Just have a look at their facebook profile. How they try cover everything up. No even one short answer to the public. I understand and respect, that they can not just answer each account case, on a social site. But instead of deleting all discussion posts, either being negative or giving criticism . They don't even try and defend or say anything. No it's easier just to block people from posting on their facebook site, and delete all comments. Me one of them
And yes of course I have contacted their Support, like lots of other frustrated people on their facebook profile. But I just don't accept standard answers, a 3rd grader easily could had done better.

Such a shame. I am chocked people still play there. Or maybe they don't who knows.

If they can sort out this horrible mess they have made. Then respect to them.
But they have already lost a lot of trust. Even their promotions are so tricky or got hidden strange terms. The one they ran in January. Only had that you had to play for 7 days in a row listed on their picture/banner. Nothing in their black on white Terms & Conditions.
Is this not something I could do a PAB on?? I am only losing out on £20.

But they sure deserve to get people on their neck, the way they treat their customers

Even If they do end up trying to sort out this Slot scandal. Then I don't see how it will help them in long run?? As You could always just see it as a way, to get all the negative focus wiped off their feet's

Hope it made sense what I wrote. I am struggling to get words put right places when I am angry and upset!!

 

[jenniferfrench]

What a surprise!! My membership of Sky Vegas and Sky Bingo Facebook has been deleted and my comments regarding their casino games with it.

I'm surprised this thread isn't much longer.

I have for a long time thought their software was dubious. This entire recent debacle proves it in my mind.

Someone put it perfectly at Facebook: "If the results of a game are dependent on a random number generator, how do you know these wins where not resulting from the generation of randomness, and if not that gives the strong impression that game results are not random at all!"

Not the fact that when people won money at their website did they cry "malfunction" and not pay out, though players can never use the same tactics, not the fact that virtually everyone I know who has used Sky Vegas have never withdrawn any winnings over a few pounds, not the fact that the people they employ to deal with customers are the rudest I have ever encountered (unhelpful and sarcastic don't even begin to explain), BUT the fact that they do not even allow free speech and censor anyone who dares to comment or question the legitimacy of their software.

That is what is truly damning about "the brand we can trust".

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Not sure how much the collective "malfunction" winnings amounted to,but you get the feeling a company as big as they are would be able to honour the payouts.

Even if its to limit damage to their reputation.

 

[LaHutti]

Not sure how much the collective "malfunction" winnings amounted to,but you get the feeling a company as big as they are would be able to honour the payouts.

Even if its to limit damage to their reputation.

If they have in fact been hacked, I seriously doubt there will be ANY payout, and investigation could take a while.
As much as it sucks for honest players who got caught in this, internet crime is a serious matter, that NO business can take lightly.
Thank the crooks ... I fully understand the ... both silence, and the time they need to investigate, IF they were hacked.
oh well...we don't really know, do we ?

 

[vinylweatherman]

What a surprise!! My membership of Sky Vegas and Sky Bingo Facebook has been deleted and my comments regarding their casino games with it.

I'm surprised this thread isn't much longer.

I have for a long time thought their software was dubious. This entire recent debacle proves it in my mind.

Someone put it perfectly at Facebook: "If the results of a game are dependent on a random number generator, how do you know these wins where not resulting from the generation of randomness, and if not that gives the strong impression that game results are not random at all!"

Not the fact that when people won money at their website did they cry "malfunction" and not pay out, though players can never use the same tactics, not the fact that virtually everyone I know who has used Sky Vegas have never withdrawn any winnings over a few pounds, not the fact that the people they employ to deal with customers are the rudest I have ever encountered (unhelpful and sarcastic don't even begin to explain), BUT the fact that they do not even allow free speech and censor anyone who dares to comment or question the legitimacy of their software.

That is what is truly damning about "the brand we can trust".

They can only censor the media they own or control. Good luck to them censoring debate here, or at many of the other internet forums.

They have only made things worse by trying a cover up, and being so obvious about it as to delete discussions and comments from media they own.

I am wondering what software this is, as surely the software supplier has an interest in their software not being held responsible, and thus putting off other clients.

If it was a hack, it shows a careless lack of security to allow a client side hack to affect the outcome of game results, all of which should be determined on the server, and protected against interference from outside.

It could be an "inside job", where a hack was planted in the software by a rogue programmer, and then distributed (sold) to interested parties. This is how some UK Fruit Machine "emptiers" came about.

Surely a better cover up would have been to withdraw the game, and give some excuse, but NOT actually start confiscating payouts and have questions asked about the nature of the problem. It suggests that this must have been a BIG problem, not something they could ignore and allow past results to stand, but protect against further losses by removing the game.

 

[jenniferfrench]

I seriously doubt there was any sort of hacking.

Their dodgy software, which customers/players are never allowed to question, let them down. If we lose our money we simply have to accept it. If Sky lose they say there was a "malfunction", void and don't pay out. Though surely if there was a malfunction everyone playing should have their money refunded as it would affect all players?

None of this, however, explains or justifies deleting all negative/questioning comments from Facebook.

I'm not sure what the relationship between Sky and the AGCC is either but one of my friends tried to make a complaint about her gameplay on Vegas and the AGCC replied telling her that Sky had informed them she wasn't a member. End of story. Very, very odd.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just had a look. These are all Flash based games, and are developed by the online arms of UK Fruit Machine manufacturers. This could well be an "inside job" hack leading to an emptier on their new game, or simply another cock-up that leads to an "emptier" by accident.

These games may not necessarily be random either, but "compensated" to meet set RTP over a given number of spins. This is the type of software mechanism (game compensation) that is prone to "emptiers". A few are online versions of the standard £500 jackpot land games that can be seen outside of casinos in any "18's and over" gaming arcade. Many of these are 5 reel videoslots, but are compensated, rather than being truly random.

Why it only worked with Euro accounts is puzzling, but I have heard of fruit machine manipulators that only work when a specific sequence of coins is inserted, so having one that only works when Euros are "inserted" is not impossible.

This game is no longer mentioned, but Sky Vegas can't be the only casino offering these games, surely.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Random?

Progressive Jackpot
You need to have a total stake of one pound or higher to win the progressive jackpot.
Get five or more Pirate symbols at any position to win the progressive jackpot.

This is from a page no longer reachable from their site, but that comes up in Google.

The progressive jackpot is won by getting 5 pirate symbols. This CANNOT be a random video slot, else betting just £1 would give you a +EV on the progressive. This can only work if the pirate symbols are "blocked" from being generated by the main RNG that selects the reel stops, and is determined and "released" by a secondary progressive call to the RNG with a probabilty weighted according to the stake, which can go up to £400.

This is more or less how the Slotland and Winaday network progressives work, a secondary RNG call that determines whether the progressive will be awarded.

Such additional non-random mechanisms can open themselves to manipulation, either by intent or pure programming error.

Despite what they say they don't know, they DO know that the payouts were wrong, and were not the result of the game's correct operation, that they happened over 2 days, and only on Euro accounts.

They must know more detail than they have released, such as which specific payouts were wrong, such as paylines, features, etc.

 

[jenniferfrench]

Having played extensively at Sky Vegas nothing would convince me that their software isn't rigged.

10 Hand Jacks or Better - On numerous occasions during gambles I was dealt the only unbeatable card (Ace of Spades) numerous times in a row. Hundreds of spins on slots with not one win. Now I realise that playing these games is a risk but expecting players to believe that they could be "unlucky" enough to never win while Sky just happen to be "lucky" enough to win my cash each and every time I deposited. It's manipulating the belief in "luck" to suit their own ends.

I also don't believe their software randomly generates. Conveniently, it generates in Sky's favour far, far, far more than the player's. I think the software identifies regular depositors and, essentially, STOPS paying out to them.

Eventually I had to concede I was throwing money down a drain, put my substantial losses down to being stupid enough to join a "gambling" site where the risk is all on one side, and cancelled my membership.

Sky Vegas is a dreadful site. Pitiful Customer Service. I feel that this organisation considers itself so huge it is untouchable and can treat customers/players with contempt, rudeness and disregard with absolutely zero comeback.

It's about time something was done but the AGCC, who back up their ludicrous "brand we can trust" claims are useless.

 

[Seventh777]

Somewhere along the line this is a hack, be-it a well camouflaged one hidden well deep in the software and set to trigger on a specified date to those playing in Euro`s or a live hack (less unlikely), if this were a slot malfunction there would have been an intricately detailed analysis released by now, and endorsed by the software providers, those that have lost their winnings are entitled to a thorough explanation as to why, but atm this has all the signs of a Lawyer restricted information censure - hardly the road to take for a dysfunctional slot related problem.

Footnote:- How can anyone question Rupert Murdoch`s work ethics and integrity.....

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[vinylweatherman]

The slot seems to be a new release by Novomatic. It has not just been pulled by Sky Vegas, but by other casinos that offer these Novomatic games. It has also been erased from history by Novomatic themselves, and is no longer listed under their "recent new releases" section. All references to it are secondary, either in now inaccessible pages (except through Google) at the casinos themselves, or on affiliate sites promoting the new game with some promotions bonus or free chip.

This looks like Novomatic have pulled the plug on this game across the board, even though Sky Vegas brought it to attention. It could be that other casinos suffered the same issues, but decided to keep quiet and pay up whilst withdrawing the game, rather than make a public song and dance like Sky Vegas, and start confiscating the payouts.

Maybe Novomatic should be asked these questions, rather than Sky Vegas.

 

[ilovejesus]

hello every one

sky vegas wolf sheep clothing i lost £10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000z

 

[CasinoBeacon]

Being discussed at gpwa -

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Time for Sky to comment. They're handling this as badly as is possible, IMO.

 

[Popstar]

From the digging I've done on this game, it was offered through the Openbet provider which I believe Sky own, or have something to do with?
Sky still have the rules page up for this game:

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Press release stating the Openbet link:

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Hope this helps get some more information

 

[jenniferfrench]

I see the facts are being manipulated at the gwpa forum.

I can assure you that I and at least eight other Sky Vegas members I know of, have been barred from posting at the Sky Vegas/Bingo Facebook pages.

This was one of the issues - that Sky do not believe in free speech and have banned people from using their Facebook page - NOT the closure of player accounts at Sky Vegas.

To clarify I did not use offensive language or abusive comments at their Facebook page, I questioned the validity of their games, especially in light of the recent issues, but all of my comments were still removed, as were numerous others.

 

[Surasanji]

Sky Vegas. Fair and balanced.

I see the facts are being manipulated at the gwpa forum.

I can assure you that I and at least eight other Sky Vegas members I know of, have been barred from posting at the Sky Vegas/Bingo Facebook pages.

This was one of the issues - that Sky do not believe in free speech and have banned people from using their Facebook page - NOT the closure of player accounts at Sky Vegas.

To clarify I did not use offensive language or abusive comments at their Facebook page, I questioned the validity of their games, especially in light of the recent issues, but all of my comments were still removed, as were numerous others.

Well, Sky is owned by Murdock, isn't it? Same dude who owns Fox and several media outlets across the entire world?

What would ever lead you to believe that someone who clearly thinks he has control over all information would have an issue with free speech. Surely the people writing the news don't have an agenda.

This 'media blackout' is a big issue for me. Its one thing to say you have an error. Its a whole different thing to then suppress any player concern, comment and question about the issue.

Of course, I'm curious what the others were saying- and I'd still like to see Sky's proof before I make a final decision- but... Well... Things are not looking good so far.

After all. They're fair and balanced!

EDIT:

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That, apparently, is what Sky has to say about this so far...

My thoughts on the above... I'm not sure Sky is being honest. Why? I just checked the activity page for his account here at CM. You'd think if he was actually concerned he'd pop on and check his mail or something....

But he hasn't been here since August? Seriously?

This is a serious issue for players, Skyvegas. Please, show us a little respect and let us know what's really going on?

 

[Slot Mad]

I don`t pull figures out of my ass when I make a comment like that .

Maybe you don't, but they definitely do!
This is just marketing-speak for the amount of winnings returned to active playing accounts during a period (it's basically turnover), it's a cheap trick but some people seem to fall for it.
Actual payouts will of course be a very small fraction of that.

 

[Slot Mad]

The slot seems to be a new release by Novomatic. It has not just been pulled by Sky Vegas, but by other casinos that offer these Novomatic games. It has also been erased from history by Novomatic themselves, and is no longer listed under their "recent new releases" section. All references to it are secondary, either in now inaccessible pages (except through Google) at the casinos themselves, or on affiliate sites promoting the new game with some promotions bonus or free chip.

This looks like Novomatic have pulled the plug on this game across the board, even though Sky Vegas brought it to attention. It could be that other casinos suffered the same issues, but decided to keep quiet and pay up whilst withdrawing the game, rather than make a public song and dance like Sky Vegas, and start confiscating the payouts.

Maybe Novomatic should be asked these questions, rather than Sky Vegas.

Absolutely right! It's the games providers that should answer for these things ultimately. Novomatic are pretty poor all round though, I'm just surprised anyone was actually daft enough to be playing play their slots.
If I buy a faulty TV from a shop I don't don't ship it back to Sharp, I take it back to the shop. Sky as the "retailer" should be giving their customers refunds and/or winnings and then taking the costs out of Novomatic. There'll no doubt be a clause in the contract they signed when they took the games but like my TV which they can argue that the slot was not fit for purpose.

If Sky had any sense they'd be open about this, let us all know what the problem was (i.e probably not theirs) and score a PR coup by being the bigger man.

Betfair handled their issue horribly but that was an internal cock up. Mr Green had one recently and initially handled it very badly but then pulled it around (a little), Sky have a real opportunity here and let's face it - whatever the amount of money was it's not going to make a dent in their bankroll.

 

[Seventh777]

Maybe you don't, but they definitely do!
This is just marketing-speak for the amount of winnings returned to active playing accounts during a period (it's basically turnover), it's a cheap trick but some people seem to fall for it.
Actual payouts will of course be a very small fraction of that.

I`m not sure you are aware of the stringent rules and practises regarding advertising in the UK.......

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If they have wrongly stated they payout an average of £19 million a week, which is clearly what they state in all their recent adverts then they are in breach of this.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If it is true that "only a small number of players were affected", and the problem was "spotted immediately", WHY did they embark on what they must have known would be a PR disaster by confiscating payouts and then trying to hide behind "can't say a thing, we don't yet know what happened". On top of which, they have tried to censor comment on media they own, and "spin" the situation on media they don't.

No way was this "small change", the error has to have been pretty significant for such a large company to reject the option of doing nothing other than quietly removing the game and spinning the move as one designed to protect players from a "potential issue with the slot". If it were a small number of players, they each have had a small fortune confiscated, and are bound to want to see solid justification for their winnings not being down to luck.

Given that the game has been pulled from all casinos using it, and removed by Novomatic from their product range, this is not a "minor issue" affecting a "small number of customers", nor is it confined to Sky Vegas.

The biggest question of all is the highly selective nature of this malfunction, since a game malfunction should have affected all players, no matter what currency they used.

 

[Seventh777]

If it is true that "only a small number of players were affected", and the problem was "spotted immediately", WHY did they embark on what they must have known would be a PR disaster by confiscating payouts and then trying to hide behind "can't say a thing, we don't yet know what happened". On top of which, they have tried to censor comment on media they own, and "spin" the situation on media they don't.

No way was this "small change", the error has to have been pretty significant for such a large company to reject the option of doing nothing other than quietly removing the game and spinning the move as one designed to protect players from a "potential issue with the slot". If it were a small number of players, they each have had a small fortune confiscated, and are bound to want to see solid justification for their winnings not being down to luck.

Given that the game has been pulled from all casinos using it, and removed by Novomatic from their product range, this is not a "minor issue" affecting a "small number of customers", nor is it confined to Sky Vegas.

The biggest question of all is the highly selective nature of this malfunction, since a game malfunction should have affected all players, no matter what currency they used.

Also, just how many players were affected by this and where are they?, as we all know - as soon as a casino pulls a stunt like this the 1st thing they do is look for help resolving the *Sky Vegas robbed me of a legitimate win* threads they would create, i`ve yet to see any of these, here, or Gambling Grumbles etc.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Also, just how many players were affected by this and where are they?, as we all know - as soon as a casino pulls a stunt like this the 1st thing they do is look for help resolving the *Sky Vegas robbed me of a legitimate win* threads they would create, i`ve yet to see any of these, here, or Gambling Grumbles etc.

Interesting point. One at least must have complained to bring this issue out into the open, and others affected must have seen part of their money confisacted. One possibility is that these players are relative newbies, and do not use internet forums, but rely on the fact that SKY is a big TV brand, and advertises it's casino on the telly, so it must be trustworthy. Players would then use SKY's own forum and Facebook page, rather than go on the internet. Murdoch knew what he was doing by serving players up two discussion mediums over which he has full control, rather than have the player have to look elsewhere if they want to discuss things among themselves.

If he is having comments removed, and members banned from posting, he may well be controlling information that advises players that they can go elsewhere to discuss the issue more freely. If someone posted on the Sky Vegas forum that discussions were freely taking place over here and at other forums, the posts might be removed and the member banned to stop too many players becoming aware that they could take this issue up elsewhere, and not have their views subject to censorship.

It is hard to verify claims that posts and comments have been removed unless you are the one posting them, and have taken a screenshot as proof.

Sky Vegas claim to be monitoring this thread, but have not graced us with the "spin" reply they have used elsewhere. Are they afraid of the CM community? - that we might see right through it and turn it against them?

We really need affected players to come here and give a first hand account of the play and outcomes that triggered this action.

 

[Seventh777]

Interesting point. One at least must have complained to bring this issue out into the open, and others affected must have seen part of their money confisacted. One possibility is that these players are relative newbies, and do not use internet forums, but rely on the fact that SKY is a big TV brand, and advertises it's casino on the telly, so it must be trustworthy. Players would then use SKY's own forum and Facebook page, rather than go on the internet. Murdoch knew what he was doing by serving players up two discussion mediums over which he has full control, rather than have the player have to look elsewhere if they want to discuss things among themselves.

If he is having comments removed, and members banned from posting, he may well be controlling information that advises players that they can go elsewhere to discuss the issue more freely. If someone posted on the Sky Vegas forum that discussions were freely taking place over here and at other forums, the posts might be removed and the member banned to stop too many players becoming aware that they could take this issue up elsewhere, and not have their views subject to censorship.

It is hard to verify claims that posts and comments have been removed unless you are the one posting them, and have taken a screenshot as proof.

Sky Vegas claim to be monitoring this thread, but have not graced us with the "spin" reply they have used elsewhere. Are they afraid of the CM community? - that we might see right through it and turn it against them?

We really need affected players to come here and give a first hand account of the play and outcomes that triggered this action.

Apn I agree with you 100%, slight derail, but to good an opportunity for me to miss, ladies and gentlemen - For all those i`ve had debates with that involve media manipulation here we have the best example possible, Rupert Murdoch has his hand in so many media pies that it does not have to involve so many people (mandatory debunkers counter argument), it boils down to one man, if his news channels say that is how it happened then that is how it happened, because we saw it on the news or watched a documentary about it on one the many channels owned by Sky/Fox, so it must be true .

Sorry for the slight derail.

Damn, I nearly went off on a Illuminati and the new world order one then lol.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Apn I agree with you 100%, slight derail, but to good an opportunity for me to miss, ladies and gentlemen - For all those i`ve had debates with that involve media manipulation here we have the best example possible, Rupert Murdoch has his hand in so many media pies that it does not have to involve so many people (mandatory debunkers counter argument), it boils down to one man, if his news channels say that is how it happened then that is how it happened, because we saw it on the news or watched a documentary about it on one the many channels owned by Sky/Fox, so it must be true .

Sorry for the slight derail.

Damn, I nearly went off on a Illuminati and the new world order one then lol.

Rupert is not so untouchable now after the phone hacking scandal. The politicians he once held close to him are anxious to steer as far away from him as possible. No-one in power now wants to be "outed" as still being one of his "friends". He has to rely on manipulating his own media outlets in order to quell the scandal, and others are no longer afraid of his legal threats, and are speaking out.

Naturally, Sky Vegas advertises heavily on SKY, and I doubt SKY will boycott them whatever the outcome. His own newspapers are unlikely to cover this story other than to reinforce the official "spin". No doubt, he will have SKY Vegas try to discredit those players who try to pursue their complaints elsewhere, perhaps accusing them of being members of a "syndicate" who knew damn well their payouts were not legitimate. The failure of these players to come forward can support the view that they knew they were in the wrong, and are just upset they got stopped so soon.

A player who knows an "emptier" for a land fruit machine is NOT going to complain about the money owed once they have emptied every coin from the machine. It would only draw attention to who did it, and lead to a ban. I sure as hell NEVER complained about what an early 1990's ACE "Payrise" had short paid after I had used the rather long winded emptier on it. I didn't want the service station manager know it was me, nor indeed that the machine was "doable", since I hoped to come back in about 3 days and repeat the procedure until the manufacturer finally cottoned on and had the games "chipped".

It is also possible that after the initial confiscation, Sky Vegas have done deals with affected players on condition they keep quiet about the whole affair and let the fuss blow over.

 

[kelmel]

From what i have read on the thread over at facebook it was 4 players that were affected.I have been keeping a close eye on it since this began and its gone silent. Those that were affected had said that they were getting in touch with lawyers so maybe that is the case and they have been advised not to comment . I put some questions to sky about the situation as it was the only place i deposited and played and was naturally worried about a problem with the games and was fobbed off with 'any enquiries contact support, the games are fair ..blah blah blah' .I havent deposited since .To not be given a reasonable and adequate answer to these issues is unacceptable but seeing as Murdoch (aka Mr Burns ) owns the lot then its inevitable that we will be kept in the dark. POWER CORRUPTS!

 

[vinylweatherman]

From what i have read on the thread over at facebook it was 4 players that were affected.I have been keeping a close eye on it since this began and its gone silent. Those that were affected had said that they were getting in touch with lawyers so maybe that is the case and they have been advised not to comment . I put some questions to sky about the situation as it was the only place i deposited and played and was naturally worried about a problem with the games and was fobbed off with 'any enquiries contact support, the games are fair ..blah blah blah' .I havent deposited since .To not be given a reasonable and adequate answer to these issues is unacceptable but seeing as Murdoch (aka Mr Burns ) owns the lot then its inevitable that we will be kept in the dark. POWER CORRUPTS!

These 4 players must have had substantial wins for them to take this to lawyers, and for Sky Vegas to push ahead and void only 4 players' winnings for what was an issue down to the software provider, not the players.

With such a small number affected, it is not surprising that none have come forward.

It also makes me wonder how 4 players made such a fortune on a game that many Euro players must have been playing, yet these others never saw this malfunction. It again suggests these 4 players had some kind of inside knowledge, or shared a common "hack" that was needed to trigger this malfunction. This is how many Fruit Machine emptiers work. Most players never see the benefit since they don't know the exact sequence of plays needed to trigger the machine to "empty". It is usually a very specific, often complex, playing strategy that must be rigidly adhered to, even to the point of deliberately turning down large wins that come from the "wrong" feature.

 

[jenniferfrench]

Also, just how many players were affected by this and where are they?, as we all know - as soon as a casino pulls a stunt like this the 1st thing they do is look for help resolving the *Sky Vegas robbed me of a legitimate win* threads they would create, i`ve yet to see any of these, here, or Gambling Grumbles etc.

Some of them posted on the Sky Vegas Facebook page. A lot of the comments were subsequently removed.

 

[Seventh777]

Some of them posted on the Sky Vegas Facebook page. A lot of the comments were subsequently removed.

Can you remember any of their nationalities?.

 

[Seventh777]

Rupert is not so untouchable now after the phone hacking scandal. The politicians he once held close to him are anxious to steer as far away from him as possible. No-one in power now wants to be "outed" as still being one of his "friends". He has to rely on manipulating his own media outlets in order to quell the scandal, and others are no longer afraid of his legal threats, and are speaking out.

Naturally, Sky Vegas advertises heavily on SKY, and I doubt SKY will boycott them whatever the outcome. His own newspapers are unlikely to cover this story other than to reinforce the official "spin". No doubt, he will have SKY Vegas try to discredit those players who try to pursue their complaints elsewhere, perhaps accusing them of being members of a "syndicate" who knew damn well their payouts were not legitimate. The failure of these players to come forward can support the view that they knew they were in the wrong, and are just upset they got stopped so soon.

A player who knows an "emptier" for a land fruit machine is NOT going to complain about the money owed once they have emptied every coin from the machine. It would only draw attention to who did it, and lead to a ban. I sure as hell NEVER complained about what an early 1990's ACE "Payrise" had short paid after I had used the rather long winded emptier on it. I didn't want the service station manager know it was me, nor indeed that the machine was "doable", since I hoped to come back in about 3 days and repeat the procedure until the manufacturer finally cottoned on and had the games "chipped".

It is also possible that after the initial confiscation, Sky Vegas have done deals with affected players on condition they keep quiet about the whole affair and let the fuss blow over.

Rupert has far more powerful friends than politicians .

 

[Surasanji]

Rupert has far more powerful friends than politicians .

I'm not Rupert's friend. I don't know what you've heard or who's spreading these falsehoods! D:

 

[Seventh777]

I'm not Rupert's friend. I don't know what you've heard or who's spreading these falsehoods! D:

It was Batgirl .