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Sky Vegas Confiscates big wins on their new slot???

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by PaaskeDenmark, Feb 3, 2012.

    Feb 3, 2012
  1. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    Hi guys

    This is shocking :eek2:

    We are sorry to inform customers that due to a fundamental technical malfunction with our Treasure Island game, winning pay outs were made in error to accounts playing in Euros on the 2nd and 3rd of February. Following the malfunction, we have suspended access to the Treasure Island game and are conducting a full investigation to understand what went wrong and why erroneous payments were made. We are contacting all affected customers. All other Sky Vegas games are unaffected.

    Not only this. But they are also misleading with their promotions. I was one on of those who though i was up for 10% cashback. But no terms and conditions not followed. Have to play 6 days in a row.
    This term is not in their Terms and Condition. If have later after studying found it ONLY on their banner/picture of this promo.

    But they gave me different explanation >>

    Thanks for your email.



    The first thing I need to clarify, is that this promotion is not based around deposits alone, it is on stakes.



    The second thing I need to make you aware of is that it is also based on 'net losses', i.e. the difference between what you have staked and what you have won. If you win more than you stake, or the difference is less than £1, then you would not incur any net losses, and therefore are not due cashback.



    This procedure was made available in the terms and conditions of the offer, and it is considered your responsibility to ensure you are fully aware of what you are partaking in.



    I need to stress that regardless of using your spins towards this promotion, they are all valid spins in themselves with the same chance of winning, promotion or not.



    I have checked your account, and also the associated data, and it is indeed correct, you are not due anything I'm afraid. As far as I'm aware, we have not messed this promotion up in any way.



    I hope that this clarifies the matter.



    Kind Regards,



    I can live with not getting my 10% i made deposits of just under £200 which I lost. But feel terrible for other players where it is a lot more. Also in regards to winnings on that new slot :eek:

    What are people's view on this. Maybe I have just totally misunderstood this Promo. But If I made deposit and played slot. And lost total, is that not a Net Loss?? :what:
     
  2. Feb 3, 2012
  3. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    Here are Terms and Condition from site for this Moneyback promotion >>

    Terms & Conditions

    Promotion is available to over 18's only.
    One offer per customer, household and IP address.
    Promotional period runs from 00:00:01 on the 10th January to 23:59:59 on the 31st January 2012.
    Enter code MONEYBACK before you play to be eligible for Moneyback.
    Entering this promotion makes you automatically eligible to receive News and Offers.
    Your Moneyback is non-withdrawable and must be used in its entirety at least once before it can be withdrawn.
    The 10% Moneyback will be calculated as 10% of your real play net losses on all eligible games within the promotional period only.
    Minimum Moneyback payout is £1 or currency equivalent.
    Maximum Moneyback payout over period is £500 or currency equivalent.
    Net losses on all mobile games and live dealer games will not be considered when calculating Moneyback.
    Qualifying accounts will be credited on or before midnight on 1st February 2012.
    Your Moneyback bonus must be used within 7 days, after this time unused Moneyback will be removed from accounts.
    Any attempts to manipulate or abuse the bonus will not be tolerated and will lead to immediate exclusion from this and future Sky Vegas promotions.
    Any accounts that are identified to be linked to an account already claiming this promotion will not be eligible.
    In the case of any breach of these terms and conditions, at the sole discretion of Sky Vegas, we reserve the right to withhold payment of any bonus amount.
    In the case of any dispute, Sky Vegas' decision will be final and no correspondence will be entered into.
    Sky Vegas reserves the right to amend or withdraw the bonus and/or these terms and conditions at any time.
    Entrants will be deemed to have accepted these terms and conditions and agreed to be bound by them when entering this promotion.
    This promotion, and any dispute or claim arising out of or in connection with it, shall be governed by and construed in accordance with English law.
    You irrevocably agree that the courts of England and Wales shall have exclusive jurisdiction to settle any dispute or claim that arises out of or in connection with this promotion.
    Bonne Terre Limited (trading as Sky Vegas) with a registered office address of 41 Victoria Street, Alderney, GY9 3TA) is the promoter of this offer
    Sky Betting and Gaming (the Promoter) - 2 Wellington Place, Leeds, LS1 4AP
    Gamble responsibly. For more info visit You must register/login in order to see the link. or telephone 0845 6000 133.


    Does not state anything about having to play at least 6 days??
    Only on that banner/picture in top. I would call it misleading?

    And here is link to it >> You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  4. Feb 4, 2012
  5. Jennifer

    Jennifer Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    stuff
    Location:
    canada
    how disgusting. Its already hard enough to hit a score in a casino, now this? Its not the players fault, its theirs. Pay them their winnings and hopefully we see some lawsuits out of this!

    I wonder how many times this happened when players went on extreme losing streaks and the ever so honest casinos contacted their customers saying "we found out you shouldnt be losing so much there is a malfunction here is a refund"!
     
    3 people like this.
  6. Feb 4, 2012
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    These cashback promos generally pay on net losses.

    If you deposited 200 and played till your balance was zero, you have lost 200. This would also be a "net loss", and due 20 back from this promo. If you lost 200, but then deposited another 200 and got your balance back to 400, then your net loss would be zero, and you would be due nothing from the promo. This is how these promos are understood to work.

    The confusion lies in the fact that some casinos advertise deposit bonuses as a "cashback", usually where a bonus is given at the end of a promotional period based on all deposits made in said period. This is how the Jackpot Factory "10% cashback on deposits" promo works. This bonus is credited twice a week based on deposits, and is given regardless of whether there has been a net loss or net win during the period. The only thing that voids the cashback is making a withdrawal before the bonus is credited.

    It does seem that Sky Vegas has gotten itself into a mess, and what I find rather worrying is that the slot played differently depending on the currency of the account, and malfunctioned only for those players using Euros. This should NOT be possible if the game is random, and not "compensated" or otherwise "weighted". It suggests that the "Euro version" had a bug that the other versions didn't, which suggests the games are not the same for all currencies.

    An honest explanation of the bug, and how it came to affect only Euro accounts, is needed.

    I have never seen this slot, so have not experienced how it played, and how it might have gone wrong.

    Funny how when games malfunction in favour of the casino there does not seem to be the same rush to put things right; in fact, the main hurdle is to break down the denial of there being any way the game could have malfunctioned, and this has to be done before the casino will even take the complaint seriously.

    By confiscating payouts, the casino will have shaken the confidence of players, so I have to presume letting the wins stand and merely disabling the game was not an option because of the extent of the overpayments.

    Most players would have probably kept quiet rather than complain they were being too lucky, after all, when players swear a game has malfunctioned because it has eaten deposit after deposit with an RTP of under 50%, the casino will brush aside any concerns and put it down to bad luck. This is going to anger players who saw nothing other than a spell of good luck, and who expected the casino to take THEIR run of bad luck in the same manner expected of players. Instead, they cry "malfunction!", so now need to prove that it WAS a malfunction, and not just an unusual run of luck. A few players probably suspected something was wrong, and may have hammered the game for all it was worth. Such players are likely to pretend they saw nothing other than a run of good luck, but by hammering the game so hard, they made it obvious to the casino that an investigation was needed.
     
    5 people like this.
  8. Feb 4, 2012
  9. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    WoW, this is something that you would not expect from a site that regularly pays out more than £19million a week, also like VWM i`m very interested in how this anomaly only affected those playing in Euro`s :confused:, is this is a case of hacking?, as far as the bonus is concerned it does appear to have different T&C`s to normal cash-back promos, anyone thinking of taking legal action against Sky - Good luck in taking Rupert Murdoch to court :rolleyes:.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Feb 4, 2012
  11. Surasanji

    Surasanji Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Call-center customer support
    Location:
    Israel
    Its hard to get a lawyer to represent you against the Devil. :rolleyes:

    Seriously though? Just Euros?

    I doubt its a case of hacking- I'd like to know more about the game in question.

    If its new, and its messing up like this- and this is a /major/ screw up- why wasn't this caught in a testing phase?

    Just a lot of questions. I mean- this isn't like putting out a word-processor that doesn't work quite right. This is people's money you're playing with.

    I've been practicing my British English: I think the above is what we call bullocks'.
     
  12. Feb 5, 2012
  13. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I sent SkyVegas a list of specific questions regarding this worrying issue yesterday, and they have responded.

    Unfortuntaely the response is none too helpful and disappointing, coming from a major operator like this. It doesn't take us too much further, I'm afraid, and for me conveys an impression of uncaring arrogance.

    QUOTE

    Thank you for your enquiry. We have communicated with all affected customers and a full investigation is being carried out into the cause of the problem.


    Please see below to a link to Sky Betting and Gaming terms and conditions:
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    UNQUOTE
     
    3 people like this.
  14. Feb 5, 2012
  15. Rick Deckard

    Rick Deckard Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    I wouldn't have thought that they actually pay out that much money in weekly withdrawals. I'd imagine it's just how much is won (though most of the cash won is played back in) in the casino over the course of a year and averaged out.
     
  16. Feb 5, 2012
  17. Reefer

    Reefer Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    painter
    Location:
    uk
    Lol close but i think you mean BoLLox lol :thumbsup:
     
  18. Feb 5, 2012
  19. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    I don`t pull figures out of my ass when I make a comment like that ;).
     
  20. Feb 6, 2012
  21. SAunnyS72

    SAunnyS72 On a Break

    Occupation:
    Entrepreneur
    Location:
    Australia
    HOW ABOUT THIS?

    Imagine if a player sends out a mass email to the casinos:

    "DUE TO A MASSIVE MALFUNCTION IN MY BRAIN I DEPOSITED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN YOUR CASINO.ALL THESE FUNDS NEED TO BE PUT BACK IN MY ACCOUNT. I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE"
     
    13 people like this.
  22. Feb 6, 2012
  23. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    Sky Vegas are Pathetic. They have just removed all comments who was negative or discussing this problem with confiscating. Around 8 people's comments. Also me included. Trying to wipe their problems under the carpet. This is what they do to their customers :xxx
     
  24. Feb 6, 2012
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It happens, it is called a "chargeback", and is considered fraud by the casino.

    Sky Vegas don't seem to be able to say what exactly went wrong, and assume it was a malfunction. What if it turned out to be nothing more than a collective run of exceptional luck, or simply the game playing to a much higher RTP than they had expected, but not over 100%, and doing so by design, not malfunction.

    Only those players who played at the time can let us know more about what happened, any volunteers?
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Feb 7, 2012
  27. bsilva028

    bsilva028 Banned : multi-account fraudster PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    salesman
    Location:
    portugal
    if a charge abck is conseidered "fraud" by the casino, so what sky vegas is doing also is "fraud", because malfunction or not its casinos responsability, not players fault.
    so its not fair to confiscate any winnings (luck that i cant play there)

    to be fair with what they are doing, all the players that deposited there and lost, the deposites should be charged back too saying "sorry it was a malfunction not a fraud"
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Feb 7, 2012
  29. CasinoBeacon

    CasinoBeacon Full Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Bloody hell, another well known brand doing something questionable :( I only spotted this thread today, an hour or two after having a discussion with someone about which non-gaming brands would be trusted by the general public if they opened an online gambling site. Will perhaps start a new thread about that later.

    Anyway, I've only recently started to promote Sky (I'm an affiliate) and so I'm obviously watching this thread closely, hoping for a nice outcome (which doesn't appear likely). Until then, no more coverage for Sky. I'll also raise awareness at GPWA.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Feb 7, 2012
  31. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    The manner in which SkyVegas is handling this reminds me of Betfair's various debacles.... it's very disappointing to see big Brit firms behaving like this.
     
  32. Feb 7, 2012
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They are citing "malfunction", however have not offered any actual details of what happened, nor presented evidence of an actual malfunction. The term "malfunction voids play" is what casino use in such circumstances, but this means that ALL bets must be void, not just the winning ones.

    They have taken it upon themselves to void the winnings BEFORE the outcome of any investigation, or indeed proof of malfunction. This is no different to when a player justifies a chargeback because his awful run could have no logical explanation other than "malfunction", and this is only "in his opinion", rather than there being any actual evidence that he was cheated.

    When Betfair thought they had been cheated, they went on a mass chargeback spree, recovering withdrawals already paid to players WITHOUT there being any legal basis other than "we can do it, so we will". This is no different to when a player charges back their loss, and says they did it "because I can, so sue me".

    Operators should be setting an example, and they cannot expect players to sit back and be "ripped off" because certain actions are "impolite" among their peer group, when they see operators using every trick in the book, even illegal ones, if it means they can grab the money and put the player in the position of having to sue them, rather than the other way around.

    When the bankers screwed up the economy, it was because they put money first, and didn't have to worry about the possibilty that what they were doing could go horribly wrong. They also devised one method after another to bypass the regulations designed to prevent such a disaster, so when it came it was HUGE, releasing all the pent up losses hidden in the system by even more devious trades. This has ensured that bankers and other "big business" is less trusted than ever, and if they can get away with moneygrabbing on this scale, and get off virtually unpunished, and get to keep what they had made, why shouldn't anybody "have a go" if they think they can "beat the system".

    In banking, it lead to banks going bust, jobs being lost, and families being made homeless. The equivalent in the casino industry are the "advantage players" who try to "beat the system" that casinos have collectively set up. The casinos try to regulate them, but they keep changing tactics in order to circumvent these regulations. They see no wrong in this, just as operators see no wrong in ensuring they have an unfair advantage over players by basing themselves well out of reach of the laws that players believe protect them from the rogue practices. Betfair's trick was to spin off the casino side and run it from a subsidiary based offshore. This meant that when UK players complained, they found that whilst the sportsbook side would have been clobbered for trying a stunt like this, the regulators here were toothless when it came to dealing with what the casino side did, with the worst punishment being a "don't do that again" from the ASA.
     
  34. Feb 7, 2012
  35. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    I really cannot see this as a malfunction...

    1). It would affect all casinos that have this slot.

    2). Why would it just be Euro`s that are affected?.

    To me this looks like a server hack, and as not to bring to much attention to it, was somehow hacked to only payout to those using Euro`s as their currency, either way though, hacking or a software error are reasons to confiscate winnings, but surely, if it were a software glitch than those that lost would receive some form of recompense, whereas, there isn`t many casinos out there that are going to admit to being hacked
     
  36. Feb 7, 2012
  37. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    Yep, this company is huge, they even took Skype to court a few years ago for a trademark misdemeanour, this really does stink of some form of cover up imho, if this was a real case of the software bugging out then surely a highly detailed report of how/why/what/when should have been released, the more I look at it the more i`m leaning towards a hack, a company this size and knowing the knock on affect bad publicity would bring, would surely just brush it under the carpet, wouldn`t they?.

    You have to ask this question also - Just how many people were playing this slot at the exact time it malfunctioned, using Euro`s as their currency?.
     
  38. Feb 7, 2012
  39. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    Just have a look at their facebook profile. How they try cover everything up. No even one short answer to the public. I understand and respect, that they can not just answer each account case, on a social site. But instead of deleting all discussion posts, either being negative or giving criticism . They don't even try and defend or say anything. No it's easier just to block people from posting on their facebook site, and delete all comments. Me one of them :mad:
    And yes of course I have contacted their Support, like lots of other frustrated people on their facebook profile. But I just don't accept standard answers, a 3rd grader easily could had done better.

    Such a shame. I am chocked people still play there. Or maybe they don't who knows. :rolleyes:

    If they can sort out this horrible mess they have made. Then respect to them.
    But they have already lost a lot of trust. Even their promotions are so tricky or got hidden strange terms. The one they ran in January. Only had that you had to play for 7 days in a row listed on their picture/banner. Nothing in their black on white Terms & Conditions.
    Is this not something I could do a PAB on?? I am only losing out on £20.

    But they sure deserve to get people on their neck, the way they treat their customers :puke:

    Even If they do end up trying to sort out this Slot scandal. Then I don't see how it will help them in long run?? As You could always just see it as a way, to get all the negative focus wiped off their feet's :what:

    Hope it made sense what I wrote. I am struggling to get words put right places when I am angry and upset!! :mad:
     
    1 person likes this.

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