Rushmore Casino Experiences

[Pinababy69]

Let's not apportion blame among ourselves as to why there are no responses from the casinos or rather the I-Gaming Forum reps here. Some will say the casinos wont respond because players defend them so there is no need for them to reply while others see it differently and believe we have been too aggressive and hence there is a reluctance from reps to answer. I do believe both sides have their merits.

I absolutely agree with you Chuchu, both sides have merit, and both sides should feel free to voice their opinion, doesn't matter if it's pro-casino, pro-player...or undecided.

Kakata, you STILL don't have your keno stats? That is unacceptable and needs to be addressed ASAP. This thread is soooooo long...I seriously doubt that Bryan or Max have even read through the entire thing. If they are not aware of the log problems you are having, you should make them aware, either through the PaB service or even a PM. An accredited casino should without a doubt be able to, and be required to, provide you with player logs/stats. Please keep on it. Even if some of don't comment, we are following it.

 

[The Dude]

I absolutely agree with you Chuchu, both sides have merit, and both sides should feel free to voice their opinion, doesn't matter if it's pro-casino, pro-player...or undecided.

Kakata, you STILL don't have your keno stats? That is unacceptable and needs to be addressed ASAP. This thread is soooooo long...I seriously doubt that Bryan or Max have even read through the entire thing. If they are not aware of the log problems you are having, you should make them aware, either through the PaB service or even a PM. An accredited casino should without a doubt be able to, and be required to, provide you with player logs/stats. Please keep on it. Even if some of don't comment, we are following it.

Yep, long one. Didn't have the time to dig through here - but some very interesting information nonetheless. I wish someone had alerted one of the moderators to have this thread split since it seems to have strayed away from Rushmore.

@Kakata - please PAB as soon as possible, and I'll have someone get on this right away. I don't know what the hold up might be. If people are PMing the rep to take a look at this thread, it may have been too overwhelming.

 

[steinhaug]

The more I read the more I'm wondering whether the RNG itself is clumpy. A quirky RNG could explain hot streaks and poor ones and still lead to an overall result that matched RTP expectations and was a random system.

That's what I love, we both agree. Same argument - however totally different standpoints. In a way the perfect conspiracy theory, we are both correct. I am wrong, but hey, I am the looser! You are right, and after all you are the winner! It's perfect! It's capitalism, its powerful, it's deliscious - I love it!

Another thing I love, is when people in the industry aknowledges that the true RNG engine does seem to be clumpy, or quirky, choose your words wisely it seems.

On the other hand your experience with the RNG is non excisting so your words has no more weight than mine, we simply do not know! I do admire your comment though, as it does tell me that from your standof point as a game developer it does sound very strange that this does happend. It can only be accounted for with a quirky RNG, which by the way nicely fits into the norm of RNG.

We all know that the system, also MG and 3Dice, is that indeed are they streaky, and while wins build up like a hill - they just as fast end with dry spells after big wins. How randomness can account for this is mindboggling for me, it is a pattern though.

Also, like Vinylweatherman has manetioned earlier, it's not only RTG games having theese "flaws" if you like. HoHoHo in MG also has a few things going on with scatters that makes it very apparent. Maby the "vanishing" of scatters is more of a design flaw in the RNG, maby in the years to come the RNG designers will be even better her - so that game is not only markeded as really rally random - but the visualization engine accually looks really really random too.

 

[kakata]

Yep, long one. Didn't have the time to dig through here - but some very interesting information nonetheless. I wish someone had alerted one of the moderators to have this thread split since it seems to have strayed away from Rushmore.

@Kakata - please PAB as soon as possible, and I'll have someone get on this right away. I don't know what the hold up might be. If people are PMing the rep to take a look at this thread, it may have been too overwhelming.

I did PAB
Thanks

 

[kakata]

well I think I realized that we are no friends and I have no friends here..
Specially here.
Rushmore did send .....what they wanted and CM received what they think was the best for both....than they send it to me.
No way against casinos and especially the "accredited ones".....it will actually be even worse.
Bye to all of you "ipocriti" ( go look for a translation)and fake friends....and bye to CM(Idont need to get a grip or whatever you said, cause you'r amongst the worst IMO) and Max who "serves" whathever its more convenient ...just like a flag which follows the wind ......what a gang of poor souls people.

 

[Pinababy69]

well I think I realized that we are no friends and I have no friends here..
Specially here.
Rushmore did send .....what they wanted and CM received what they think was the best for both....than they send it to me.
No way against casinos and especially the "accredited ones".....it will actually be even worse.
Bye to all of you "ipocriti" ( go look for a translation)and fake friends....and bye to CM(Idont need to get a grip or whatever you said, cause you'r amongst the worst IMO) and Max who "serves" whathever its more convenient ...just like a flag which follows the wind ......what a gang of poor souls people.

Kakata, if you could fill us in on why you're so upset? Or maybe Bryan or Max, let us know the results of the PAB, if that's not privileged info? I can see Kakata is upset, but don't want to comment until I at least know what he's upset about, lol. Did you get the play logs you requested Kakata?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Heya,

To me the points that confirm that the software hasn't been tampered with are:
1) We know monthly figures for our games and typically 1-2 of those will have resulted in negative return to the casinos as a whole (if the software was rigged you would never have a game returning greater than 100% RTP over a period)
2) RTG only have one version of the system. Even items such as themed messaging per game present an issue, because we wanted to avoid doing non-English translations of everything, but are having to bite the bulllet because it's too difficult to produce a variant software (so we know that the software system running is the same that we see)
3) We run, and RTG also run, spin tests that we see, and volatility studies to determine risk...there would be no need to do all that if the software were a dodge.
4) We annually audit the reporting, and have had no issues raised in the years we have been dealing with RTG.
5) We have dealt with various operators and have seen things from the operator side. We know that RTG software is not capable of being tampered with by an operator even if they did want to bend or break things.

So...to me, the software hasn't been tampered with and remains a truly random system.

Woof

Such in depth auditing, yet PLAYERS are not permitted to know even a fraction of this information, as though in some way it might give them an edge, or reveal deep "commercial secrets" that might enable RTG games to be cloned by unscrupulous operators.
Players even have a devil of a job getting their own play stats from an RTG casino, and the software gives no access to stats at all.

Is it any wonder some players believe that RTG casinos have something to hide, and will not have their views altered by others giving the all clear to the software based on "secret" audits.

 

[babs7262]

Im happy for people who are having luck but I signed up for this casino months and months before you guys even said "boo" about it. Ive even mentioned it months and months before Bryans post about it and noone said anything and let the thread slide

Why am I say this? Because I have never had ONE cashout from this rip off casino. Not one. It lets me get one or bonus rounds in the very beginning to get my hopes up and then BAM downward spiral even after taking breaks

I uninstalled this casino for the last time today.

 

[chuchu59]

I dont trust you Babs. You could be installing it again in a moment of weakness and just leave it in your PC without uninstalling it. I think you should consider asking them to close your account. That will make them liable in case you just have that itch.

 

[chuchu59]

Kakata, if you could fill us in on why you're so upset? Or maybe Bryan or Max, let us know the results of the PAB, if that's not privileged info? I can see Kakata is upset, but don't want to comment until I at least know what he's upset about, lol. Did you get the play logs you requested Kakata?

I can only say that many of us tried to help him selflessly in his row with Jade over the wrong bet size (slots) incident. As friends, there must be mutual respect and it aint a one-way ticket. Just because he doesnt get what he wants and then calls everybody fake friends and ipocriti is being disrespectful IMO.

 

[RobWin]

Im happy for people who are having luck but I signed up for this casino months and months before you guys even said "boo" about it. Ive even mentioned it months and months before Bryans post about it and noone said anything and let the thread slide

Why am I say this? Because I have never had ONE cashout from this rip off casino. Not one. It lets me get one or bonus rounds in the very beginning to get my hopes up and then BAM downward spiral even after taking breaks

I uninstalled this casino for the last time today.

You did have one but you reversed it, remember ??

 

[SierraDawn]

Bring them on... very good experience with them... they need to give out some freebies tho!

I have had no probs with them. They seem to have good reps and email me with bonuses.
Freebies.. woot! Maybe someday they might offer me one

 

[babs7262]

You did have one but you reversed it, remember ??

LOL...It was $30 Rob, I dep'd $20, I remember that because LJ tried to talk me out of it until she heard it was only $30 lol

 

[RobWin]

LOL...It was $30 Rob, I dep'd $20, I remember that because LJ tried to talk me out of it until she heard it was only $30 lol

Yea...LOL, I remember they wanted something like $25 for a check fee too...that was the absurd part wasn't it...

 

[maxd]

well I think I realized that we are no friends and I have no friends here... Max who "serves" whathever its more convenient ...just like a flag which follows the wind.

Kakata, if you could fill us in on why you're so upset? Or maybe Bryan or Max, let us know the results of the PAB, if that's not privileged info?

Actually, that's the thing, there _is_ no final result so far. The thing is still in progress and certainly no decision has been made at our end.

All that's happened so far is that K submitted his PAB. There were issues with the PAB but at this point I'll just say that we went ahead with it anyway to see what Rushmore had to say about it. They gave me some details on their side of it including two attachments which they asked me to forward to K because he was apparently having trouble getting emails from them.

I forwarded those docs, presumably some play transcripts, and K said he couldn't read them. I asked what format he would like them in ... and then this "you are not my friends" stuff.

I can understand that those play records may not have been exactly what K was asking for from the casino but how is that our fault? And how does it call for this "ipocriti" stuff? And why get so upset that you start this kind of talk before we've even finished gathering and evaluating all the relevant info? Or had a chance to go back to the casino to get him the play records he really wanted?

The fact is that we've helped K before with issues he's brought up in the forums and he seemed plenty happy enough then. And now he turns around in a heartbeat to fire off these accusations and condemnations? Anyway you look at it that is very far from the cool thing to do, no matter how upset and frustrated you may be.

 

[LaurieJim]

LOL...It was $30 Rob, I dep'd $20, I remember that because LJ tried to talk me out of it until she heard it was only $30 lol

Yea...LOL, I remember they wanted something like $25 for a check fee too...that was the absurd part wasn't it...

yep i remember, i was hoping she would hit one of those big ass r/j, but didnt happen........................laurie

 

[Pinababy69]

Actually, that's the thing, there _is_ no final result so far. The thing is still in progress and certainly no decision has been made at our end.

All that's happened so far is that K submitted his PAB. There were issues with the PAB but at this point I'll just say that we went ahead with it anyway to see what Rushmore had to say about it. They gave me some details on their side of it including two attachments which they asked me to forward to K because he was apparently having trouble getting emails from them.

I forwarded those docs, presumably some play transcripts, and K said he couldn't read them. I asked what format he would like them in ... and then this "you are not my friends" stuff.

I can understand that those play records may not have been exactly what K was asking for from the casino but how is that our fault? And how does it call for this "ipocriti" stuff? And why get so upset that you start this kind of talk before we've even finished gathering and evaluating all the relevant info? Or had a chance to go back to the casino to get him the play records he really wanted?

The fact is that we've helped K before with issues he's brought up in the forums and he seemed plenty happy enough then. And now he turns around in a heartbeat to fire off these accusations and condemnations? Anyway you look at it that is very far from the cool thing to do, no matter how upset and frustrated you may be.

Agreed on the bolded part Max, and thanks for the reply and clarification.

Kakata, from what Max has posted, your issue hasn't even been brought to any sort of resolution one way or another. Maybe things aren't moving as quickly as you'd like, but things take time. I realize you waited ages for your logs, and I certainly can't justify that. You shouldn't have to PAB to get what you are entitled to.

As to the rest of it....firstly, friendships don't really come into play here, IMO. Just because people are friends, doesn't mean they are always going to agree. And you cannot expect friends to jump to your defense no matter what. We don't even have all the facts here, so how can we make a judgement? To accuse us all of being hypocrites is way over the top, and untrue. There are more than a few of us here who would be willing to debate any decision made by Bryan and/or Max, IF we felt there was room for debate. But that's not a decision based on friendship, but on the situation and the facts presented. I've never noticed Robwin, Chuchu, myself or others scared to state an opinion, even if it wasn't the popular one.

Second, you haven't even given Max a chance to finish the PAB process, so how can you judge whether the treatment you've received is fair or not?

And third, whatever documents you did receive..if they were unreadable in their present format, or if you didn't understand them...surely you know there are people here who would be willing to help you out?

I don't always necessarily agree with Bryan and/or Max, and I'm not afraid to say so when one of those situations arises. But in this case Kakata, going on just what I've read, you are way out of line. And I think you may have alienated alot of people with your comments. JMO.

 

[Rusty]

I am not going to have a go at Kakata for saying what he has because he is obviously very upset.
We all say and do things we shouldn't when we feel an injustice and get upset.
I am sure Bryan and Max understand that though it must seem a thankless task they undertake at times.

I had a great deal of trouble getting playlogs from Rushmore as well and in fact never received the last set I asked for before deciding to close my account.

 

[The Dude]

...I wish someone had alerted one of the moderators to have this thread split since it seems to have strayed away from Rushmore.

@Kakata - please PAB as soon as possible, and I'll have someone get on this right away. I don't know what the hold up might be. If people are PMing the rep to take a look at this thread, it may have been too overwhelming.

Three days later he PABs

I did PAB
Thanks

This is it:

well its very easy.
Besides the FACT that ive made tons of deposits (at least 30to40) and never cashed out......and after they try to take money from me by changing my bet from 20/30cents up to $20.(all this story already has a thread) i was finally reimboursed of the 100 bux regarding this matter.Still the fact remains....if I wouldnt have noticed I would just have lost my money.
I continued to play there though, withouth any win whatsoever and noticing that theyr payouts were becoming thighter by the minute.
After losing hundred and hundreds of dollars @ 25cents on keno withouth never....NEVER get any win over 5.50 or maybe 1 in the last 3 weeks of playing @ theyr casino,I asked for my Keno stats cause I want em(the stats) to be shown to all the forum members.
Ive never received an answer nor the stats, nor some money back.
I can garantee you it's less than 40% in 3 weeks not 3 days.and countless hours and hours of play time!!!!
Sorry 4 my english ....that's all I can say.

kakata

------------------------------------------------------
What I want done:

If they claim that theyr payout are 90+% or whatever they claim ....I dont know, I think Im entitled to some of my money back and MY stats of course.
They can put the money in my account with em (if its still open)....they will take it back anyway, still I will have some play time .

Like Max said, we received the stats from the casino and a log of the emails sent to the player - maybe he wasn't receiving them, so Max passed this on...and now this:

well I think I realized that we are no friends and I have no friends here..
Specially here.
Rushmore did send .....what they wanted and CM received what they think was the best for both....than they send it to me.
No way against casinos and especially the "accredited ones".....it will actually be even worse.
Bye to all of you "ipocriti" ( go look for a translation)and fake friends....and bye to CM(Idont need to get a grip or whatever you said, cause you'r amongst the worst IMO) and Max who "serves" whathever its more convenient ...just like a flag which follows the wind ......what a gang of poor souls people.

ipocriti?? WTF is your major malfunction? What do you want us to do besides send you the logs (which Max did)?? You want us to send you some extra cash in the mail?

Sorry dude, that's it for me as well. You want to say goodbye to this forum? Well in my opinion you just did. Ipocriti? Ha!

Arrivederci!

 

[suzecat]

Kakata, come on now, you know that casinos are in biz to make money, from you, me, CM, Max, or anyone else who deposits money into them! You also know gambling is a game of chance! You deposit your money, decide on a wager, then you either win or lose.................NO DO-OVERS!!!!!

JMO, gambling has become more of a compulsion for you than an entertanment. So a vacation from all things gambling related may be in order until you can regain a perspective. Some people can, some people can't..........I do not know how it will turn out for you.

Hope you consider me as one of your friends............you know you have quite a few here! Best of luck to you......

 

[Marie2473]

Will they ever accept neteller?

 

[Louise]

Neteller

Hi Marie,

I'm checking up about Neteller for you and will get back to you as soon as I find out.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore & Cherry Red Rep.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Marie,

I'm checking up about Neteller for you and will get back to you as soon as I find out.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore & Cherry Red Rep.

I ONLY use Neteller and Credit Cards. Credit Cards I ONLY use in selected casinos, and ONLY where my accounts are in UK Pounds. NO WAY will I use Credit Cards for US$ Casinos because of the huge processing fees. Further, deposits by Credit Card result in withdrawals by cheque, which will cost a fortune to bank if they are in US$.

Neteller charge fees, but as a VIP there I get a monthly rebate for using them with US$ casinos. Not ideal, but acceptable. What would be important is to both be able to deposit AND WITHDRAW with Neteller as painlessly as I can with iNetBet and ClubUSA Dollar accounts.

If there are going to be UK Pound versions of either Rushmore or Cherry Red, I would prefer to wait for that (no fees at all). I would expect any promotions to take into account the higher value of the Pound, and not be the $888 and $777 offered, but an amount roughly equivalent, maybe around the 400 mark.

 

[Louise]

Neteller answer

Hi all,

I found out from the top boss that we in the final stages with Neteller, so it should be all set in the cashier next week.

We have Click2Pay and Moneybookers already set up for non-US residents also.

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep

 

[silcnlayc]

Great information in this thread...don't know how I missed it for so long..

Just joined Rushmore a few weeks ago and finally made enough to make a withdrawal...I have a question that might help others also..that has me confused and really needs addressing for myself if the Rushmore rep is kind enough to let me know the answer...

I deposited many times through QT/Usemywallet and the funds were processed immediately each and every time without a hitch INTO the casino..Now when I went to withdraw, I kept getting denied because I did not send in my docs...just wondering the reasoning behind this cause it makes no sense to me at all...you can take money continuously from a merchant, but can't put money back to the same deposit method without forms?? Which I sent in immediately after the denied withdrawal...I could understand if it was a credit card/bank wire/check..but a QT account already has all the info just as Neteller used too.

This is the first casino that has requested ANY fax back forms from me for a withdrawal while using Usemywallet account. The withdrawal is about 1/10th of what I have so far lost..so it couldn't be the amount I am withdrawing...(peanuts compared to some of you guys )

So...why deny a withdrawal at the get go ... pending documentation processing? The least you guys could have done was process the withdrawal, hold it in pending status until docs are received then release it..but you can't even get past the withdrawal stage...bad vibes there for me because of this..and I really enjoyed playing there too..

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi all,

I found out from the top boss that we in the final stages with Neteller, so it should be all set in the cashier next week.

We have Click2Pay and Moneybookers already set up for non-US residents also.

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep

Will this include WITHDRAWALS too, or will there be a delay between accepting deposits through Neteller, and being able to process withdrawals back to Neteller?

This was a criticism in the past, players using a deposit method that NORMALLY is OK for withdrawals, and finding Rushmore had a rather odd inability to pay back to the same eWallet, and having to send a cheque, which is a huge problem for some players whos countries' banks are in the 21st Century

 

[Louise]

Withdrawals, etc

Hi all,

Even if you have sent documents to the third party deposit methods, we do still require that the faxback form and documents are sent to us as a one time verification process. It is not only to verify who we are receiving deposits from (possible fraud using someone else's details), but also to whom we are sending withdrawals to (possible money laundering).

It's an unfortunate situation, but that's the fault of the 'badies' out there, so we hope that you understand our reasoning behind this policy.

you can take money continuously from a merchant

- We do in fact also require this documentation to be sent to us once players have reached a certain amount of deposits, regardless of requesting a withdrawal. Again, this is to prevent fraud, so someone can't go on a spending spree with someone else's money!

Concerning when it asks you to send the form and documents. It used to be that you could request a withdrawal without sending in documents, and an automatic email would be sent to ask for the form and documents to be sent. Due to our emails being blocked when asking for these documents (and in general), we had lots of problems with upset players, saying that their money has been pending for days and days and hasn't been processed. Therefore, we find it better to do it this way around, as it's only going to happen like this for first time withdrawals.

vinylweatherman - I've forwarded your question to the manager who's dealing with Neteller to ask about the withdrawal possibilities/time.

Hope that answers all of your questions for now

 

[Louise]

Neteller

Will this include WITHDRAWALS too, or will there be a delay between accepting deposits through Neteller, and being able to process withdrawals back to Neteller?
QUOTE]

Hi vinylweatherman,

I confirmed with the manager that we will be able to process withdrawals to Neteller also.

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep

 

[silcnlayc]

Louise: Hope that answers all of your questions for now

Yes , thank you, I came to the same conclusion on the email thing for withdrawals once I asked and posted the question.. It was the first time that has ever happened and I guess I got a little concerned.. maybe somewhat "overly" ...

Now that I know how it is done, it won't come as a surprise to me again..and maybe tht might be a better idea for other casinos to pick up on to keep from not receiving the request for docs through email...

Thanks!

 

[Louise]

Thanks

Thanks for your understanding silcnlayc

Please let me know if I can be of any assistance regarding your cashout or anything you may need.

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep.

 

[Rusty]

Even if you have sent documents to the third party deposit methods, we do still require that the faxback form and documents are sent to us as a one time verification process. It is not only to verify who we are receiving deposits from (possible fraud using someone else's details), but also to whom we are sending withdrawals to (possible money laundering).

It's an unfortunate situation, but that's the fault of the 'badies' out there, so we hope that you understand our reasoning behind this policy.

I understand that fraud is ok as long as it in the Casinos favour.

Why not request ID before accepting deposits if you are so worried about fraud?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Even if you have sent documents to the third party deposit methods, we do still require that the faxback form and documents are sent to us as a one time verification process. It is not only to verify who we are receiving deposits from (possible fraud using someone else's details), but also to whom we are sending withdrawals to (possible money laundering).

It's an unfortunate situation, but that's the fault of the 'badies' out there, so we hope that you understand our reasoning behind this policy.

I understand that fraud is ok as long as it in the Casinos favour.

Why not request ID before accepting deposits if you are so worried about fraud?

They have gone some way towards this, requiring documents after deposits have reached "a certain amount", however, this does allow fraud using someone else's money to a degree, which will only get spotted at the time of first withdrawal. With withdrawals though, there is NO permissible "certain limit" before documents are requested, so in a way Rusty is right in that more leeway is granted when the money flows INTO the casino, but absolutely NO leeway when it flows back to the player. Fraud is fraud, no matter what direction the money flows, and however much is in that flow.

It would help to have a better error message than "cashout denied - contact support". This unduly frightens players, who think they are then not going to be paid, as with many other RTG casinos they may have had trouble with. The message should be more specific, and have a link to a detailed explanation of the document process and WHY the player has to "contact support" to enable their withdrawal.
With Emails being blocked, the same problem could still arise - player gets error message, and sends Email to support - and never sees a reply, and as far as they are concerned (not knowing it to be simply a matter of documents), assumes they have found another Rogue RTG casino, and will have to fight for their money.

 

[Louise]

documents etc

I understand that fraud is ok as long as it in the Casinos favour.

I would have to disagree with this. Like I say, we ask for these documents not only at the point of first cashout, but also once a certain amount has been deposited, regardless of whether a cashout has been requested. We do also recommend when speaking with our players, that they send in the faxback form and documents before getting to the point of cashout. Not only will it speed the cashout process up, it also means that we can certify their deposit methods with our processor, reducing declines and problems along the way.

We have found this to be a half-way meeting point, as at some point we need to verify accounts, and I am sure that you can all agree that if we start asking for people to send documents even prior to making a first deposit, this would be going a bit too far.

It would help to have a better error message than "cashout denied - contact support".

I have checked on this, and this is in fact the message that it gives when requesting a first time cashout:

"Please note that your faxback form must be on file in order for us to approve your withdrawal. If you have not already sent us your faxback form, please follow the link in the information box to the right to retrieve this document."

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I would have to disagree with this. Like I say, we ask for these documents not only at the point of first cashout, but also once a certain amount has been deposited, regardless of whether a cashout has been requested. We do also recommend when speaking with our players, that they send in the faxback form and documents before getting to the point of cashout. Not only will it speed the cashout process up, it also means that we can certify their deposit methods with our processor, reducing declines and problems along the way.

We have found this to be a half-way meeting point, as at some point we need to verify accounts, and I am sure that you can all agree that if we start asking for people to send documents even prior to making a first deposit, this would be going a bit too far.



I have checked on this, and this is in fact the message that it gives when requesting a first time cashout:

"Please note that your faxback form must be on file in order for us to approve your withdrawal. If you have not already sent us your faxback form, please follow the link in the information box to the right to retrieve this document."

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep.

That is OK in my opinion.

if we start asking for people to send documents even prior to making a first deposit, this would be going a bit too far.

Perhaps not, since the level of fraud seems so high. If it is OK to accept deposits up to a certain limit as a "half way meeting point", then surely a similar "meeting point" should be OK for modest cashouts below a certain limit.

Faxback forms are an annoyance, often because of the problems some players seem to have in satisfying casinos with "clear copies", and sometimes long hold ups between sending in the forms, and getting a reply and agreed verification.
Far too many casinos have used the dreaded "faxback form" as a delaying tactic to spin out the process of withdrawal that it's legitimate use as a fraud prevention measure is not always understood.

There is a need to explain why UNVERIFIED deposits can be OK to a certain limit, but the limit for unverified WITHDRAWALS has to be ZERO. Two different standards are being applied, a "zero risk" approach for withdrawals, and an "acceptable risk" approach for deposits. The obvious reason I can think of for this is that money flowing IN can lead to profits, and the business has put this ahead of being 100% certain that the funds are legit (simply because the deposit, legit or not, could go to a competitor), however, NO profit is going to come from paying a withdrawal, so it is OK to have a "zero risk" verification process that will not have an adverse impact on profits.

 

[Louise]

Thx

Thanks vinylweatherman for your input and suggestions.

At the moment, this is the happy medium that we have found - On one hand, trying to give some 'freedom' in depositing and just getting on with playing, because that's what people want to fo, and on the other hand, trying to protect ourselves and people out there with their protection needs also.

I personally assist in approving the forms and documents, along with the accounts manager Steve, and can assure you that we in no way 'take our time' in processing these documents in order for us to have an advantage. We understand, that the faster things are done, the better. You can look at RobWin's post to see that I approved his forms within a matter of minutes, we simply try as fast as we can to do this.

Concerning the problems with fax copies coming out badly, we also suggest to our players that they scan and email or even take digital photos and email them to us to save the problems with this.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep

 

[RobWin]

Thanks vinylweatherman for your input and suggestions.

At the moment, this is the happy medium that we have found - On one hand, trying to give some 'freedom' in depositing and just getting on with playing, because that's what people want to fo, and on the other hand, trying to protect ourselves and people out there with their protection needs also.

I personally assist in approving the forms and documents, along with the accounts manager Steve, and can assure you that we in no way 'take our time' in processing these documents in order for us to have an advantage. We understand, that the faster things are done, the better. You can look at RobWin's post to see that I approved his forms within a matter of minutes, we simply try as fast as we can to do this.

Concerning the problems with fax copies coming out badly, we also suggest to our players that they scan and email or even take digital photos and email them to us to save the problems with this.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep

Yes, it worked well for me and I appreciate that fast service shown there in my regard...one of the fastest I've ever dealt with for gaming online the past 12 years...

 

[silcnlayc]

we also suggest to our players that they scan and email

Louise, nowhere on the faxback form does it give the option of emailing it also. I looked and I looked hard for this option since I scanned everything into my computer I was going to email them but ended up having to print them again and fax them.

This option would be great if placed on the form under the faxback number so players would know that this is allowed too.

My documents were processed and approved quicklly too, once sent to them. It's the waiting game that is now in effect.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks vinylweatherman for your input and suggestions.

At the moment, this is the happy medium that we have found - On one hand, trying to give some 'freedom' in depositing and just getting on with playing, because that's what people want to fo, and on the other hand, trying to protect ourselves and people out there with their protection needs also.

I personally assist in approving the forms and documents, along with the accounts manager Steve, and can assure you that we in no way 'take our time' in processing these documents in order for us to have an advantage. We understand, that the faster things are done, the better. You can look at RobWin's post to see that I approved his forms within a matter of minutes, we simply try as fast as we can to do this.

Concerning the problems with fax copies coming out badly, we also suggest to our players that they scan and email or even take digital photos and email them to us to save the problems with this.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep

You should take some pride in this, as it is most certainly NOT the norm. Often, the player is told the documents have been received and forwarded to accounts, who of course do NOT work 24/7, and this is where the waiting game starts. Sometimes, it takes a few days for accounts to get back to the player and tell them the documents are "not clear", and the lengthy process starts again. This is what gives players the impression that many casinos are using documentation as a stalling tactic, while using the reasoning that they must do it to protect against fraud.

One problem often found with Emailing documents is when players send them again and again, but each time they query the further delay are told the casino never received them. Sometimes they are told by CS they HAVE been received, but later told to send them because they have NOT been received (and this begs the question as to what happened to the secure handling of such material). Some casinos have been known to string this process out for weeks, by which time quite a few players end up playing back their winnings, at which point the casino suddenly tells them their documents have been approved and they can withdraw (yeah, pull the other one Virtual Danny).

For these reasons, you will ALWAYS have players moaning about the documentation process, no matter how efficient Rushmore and Cherry Red are in this respect.

Once documents have been approved, another way Rushmore and Cherry Red can improve upon the competition is to ensure payment is as fast as possible, none of this "xx hour pending in case you want to reverse....." nonsense. With withdrawals to eWallets such as Neteller, payment can be INSTANT, and for US players the same can be said for Quicktender. Other methods may be slower, especially refunds to cards and bank wires, but quick processing should keep the wait down to 3 - 5 days for the player.

 

[Louise]

silcnlayc - I'll ask that we add that to the form, about the possibility of emailing the documents also, makes sense

vinylweatherman - Thanks again for your input here.

We do try our best to do things as efficiently as possible, and concerning the security matters, only I and the accounts manager have access to the fax and the deposit/withdrawal inboxes.

We do a few things to ensure that the message gets to the player as soon as possible to let them know if a document needs to be re-sent, to also ensure that the process is as fast as we can make it.

Of course, there are always little improvements to make along the way which we are always striving towards in order to make things run the best way possible.

Louise
Rushmore & Cherry Red Rep.

 

[Rusty]

You are to be praised for the quick verification process but I do not agree with this statement;
We have found this to be a half-way meeting point, as at some point we need to verify accounts, and I am sure that you can all agree that if we start asking for people to send documents even prior to making a first deposit, this would be going a bit too far.

If players have to send in forms anyway it might as well be straight away and because of your quick verification process they would not have to wait long before depositing.
When you say you request documents after a certain amount has been deposited how much is it?

Granted you are not doing anything different than many other Casinos by requesting documents when a cashout request is made but that is the problem.
It will always annoy the player when they can easily make several losing deposits and then when they win half their money back they are suddenly asked to jump through hoops and told it is for their own benefit.

 

[chuchu59]

We are never going to get an ultimate solution as to when would be the most appropriate time for requesting faxback forms. However, it wouldnt hurt to remind players with a 'bubble message' after a successful deposit that while they dont want to interrupt their play, it would be useful to spend a bit of time afterwards to send in their faxback forms for verification first to save withdrawal processing time later especially in the case of a big win. This will be more palatable to those who feel that the request comes suddenly out of the blue and is an obstacle for their cashouts.

 

[winbig]

How about thinking outside the box, by telling players that they have to send in a fax-back form before they are allowed to deposit? If a casino is truly worried about fraud, then this would be a great solution.

...plus, this route may help in deterring bonus abusers...

...and avoid any confusion if a player is trying to claim a SUB that they can only claim once per group of casinos, etc...

 

[RobWin]

You should take some pride in this, as it is most certainly NOT the norm. Often, the player is told the documents have been received and forwarded to accounts, who of course do NOT work 24/7, and this is where the waiting game starts. Sometimes, it takes a few days for accounts to get back to the player and tell them the documents are "not clear", and the lengthy process starts again. This is what gives players the impression that many casinos are using documentation as a stalling tactic, while using the reasoning that they must do it to protect against fraud.

One problem often found with Emailing documents is when players send them again and again, but each time they query the further delay are told the casino never received them. Sometimes they are told by CS they HAVE been received, but later told to send them because they have NOT been received (and this begs the question as to what happened to the secure handling of such material). Some casinos have been known to string this process out for weeks, by which time quite a few players end up playing back their winnings, at which point the casino suddenly tells them their documents have been approved and they can withdraw (yeah, pull the other one Virtual Danny).

For these reasons, you will ALWAYS have players moaning about the documentation process, no matter how efficient Rushmore and Cherry Red are in this respect.

Once documents have been approved, another way Rushmore and Cherry Red can improve upon the competition is to ensure payment is as fast as possible, none of this "xx hour pending in case you want to reverse....." nonsense. With withdrawals to eWallets such as Neteller, payment can be INSTANT, and for US players the same can be said for Quicktender. Other methods may be slower, especially refunds to cards and bank wires, but quick processing should keep the wait down to 3 - 5 days for the player.

The thing I liked most about my cashout was the fact that from the moment I cashed in until I could No Longer Reverse my withdrawal was only about 2:45 minutes...so that to me was a big plus, I only had to keep the casino closed and my finger off the reverse button for a couple of hours...

 

[chuchu59]

Rob,

That would mean having a meal plus watching a movie at the cinema to ensure your dough is safe from les itchy fingers.

 

[chuchu59]

How about thinking outside the box, by telling players that they have to send in a fax-back form before they are allowed to deposit? If a casino is truly worried about fraud, then this would be a great solution.

...plus, this route may help in deterring bonus abusers...

...and avoid any confusion if a player is trying to claim a SUB that they can only claim once per group of casinos, etc...

King Solomons does this and it was damn irritating. I logged into the cashier and tried to deposit via ecocard. This was declined as I hadnt filled out their faxback form. Needless to say, I took my deposit elsewhere and lost it.

I think it does deter many players especially newbies from making their deposits. The casinos would certainly not want to risk this.

 

[Louise]

I really do take in to account all of your comments and ideas.

I will of course pass them on to the floor manager CEO and have him take a look at them.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore and Cherry Red Rep.

 

[manvscasino]

is it possible to w/d to quicktender now?

 

[Louise]

Hi manvscasino,

Yes, we have usemywallet available in the cashier for deposit and withdrawal.

Louise
Rushmore & Cherry Red Rep.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Neteller

I had a look yesterday, and can see no sign of Neteller, only Moneybookers.

Since only the US Dollar is used (common to most RTG casinos), the LAST thing I want is a US Dollar cheque to have to pay into my UK Pound bank account (unless it is a very LARGE one ). Although Neteller charge conversion fees, as a VIP there I get a rebate, and there is no one-off transaction charge for using another currency (it's hidden in their exchange rate).

I would probably try the slots only bonus, which seems to be 400%, and maybe I could repeat my legendary RTG session from Club World

A question for the rep to ponder though, I notice that BOTH Rushmore and Cherry Red offer the same set of SUBs, with only a slight difference. There is no mention of any "one per group" policy, but both casinos are Rushpod" outfits, and, in theory, a player could take the 400% SUB slots bonus at both, and any selection of the regular weekly and weekend bonuses at both. These bonuses are far larger than the established reputable RTG casinos offer to both new and regular players.

What is the current policy with regard to players signing up (with bonuses) at both Rushmore AND Cherry red?

This is probably already happening.

 

[Louise]

Hi vinylweatherman,

Neteller isn't ready quite yet. I'll post here once it's been integrated in to the cashier and ready to go.

Concerning Moneybookers, I've just checked myself and I see it in the cashiers in deposit and withdraw. There is a pull down menu for 'international' and 'US' cashier, so maybe that's the difference?

With the bonuses, there is no policy regarding 'one per group'. So you could get the 400% with Rushmore, and then go to Cherry Red right after and get the 400% there.

Hope this answers your questions for now

Louise
Rushmore & Cherry Red Rep.