Rogue?
- Thread starter skiny
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
You've sort of answered your own question!
Winward as a casino is not in the rogue pit, but Bryan put the whole Top Game platform in there under "Bumblings, Blunders and Negligence".
I don't think this has been reviewed since (things may have improved), and it was not terribly fair on the individual casinos in my personal opinion.
KK
Winward Casino has been in the rogue pit or under review a couple of times.
I think that the last warning disappeared less than a year ago. I might be wrong, but during many years they used to use the "fraud" clause whenever a player was using advantage play.
They also during some time forced ALL players to use a bonus with WR. You weren't even able to deposit without bonus. This was around three years ago.
And don't forget, Winward Casino has the same owner as the recently rogued Rich Casino.
PROCEED WITH CARE/CAUTION!
I think that the last warning disappeared less than a year ago. I might be wrong, but during many years they used to use the "fraud" clause whenever a player was using advantage play.
They also during some time forced ALL players to use a bonus with WR. You weren't even able to deposit without bonus. This was around three years ago.
And don't forget, Winward Casino has the same owner as the recently rogued Rich Casino.
PROCEED WITH CARE/CAUTION!
I have been playing at Winward for a few months. I have not had problems..I have made 3 withdrawls..The first one took a while because of docs, etc. The last 2 I had within 48 hours to my QT...They have decent bonuses (although I no longer take bonuses) and there WR is 12x's which is decent...good luck
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2007
- Location
- Cyberspace
I wanted to try the software. I've taken a few Topgame ND bonuses to try the games but I never last more than the first game I play.
This time I made it up to 100 bucks so I wanted to try to cash out.
I didn't bother with the T&C because first of all I never win anyway and second of all it's usually all just WR and max cash outs. I figured I'd have a look when it became important. I was willing to accept pretty much any WR or Max cash out since I wasn't playing with my own money anyway.
Turns out all ND bonuses require the player to use Neteller to withdraw. I don't use Neteller.
Bonus useless.
This time I made it up to 100 bucks so I wanted to try to cash out.
I didn't bother with the T&C because first of all I never win anyway and second of all it's usually all just WR and max cash outs. I figured I'd have a look when it became important. I was willing to accept pretty much any WR or Max cash out since I wasn't playing with my own money anyway.
Turns out all ND bonuses require the player to use Neteller to withdraw. I don't use Neteller.
Bonus useless.
All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly. Or feel free to open a help desk ticket for timely assistance.
Welcome to Live Support my name is Brian how may I be of assistance?
Terry: Hello Brian.
Terry: I won 100 dollars with a no deposit bonus at Winward casino and now I would like to withdraw but Neteller does not allow transferring money too and from gambling sites. So how do I withdraw my money?
Brian: So far, Neteller does allow such transactions
Terry: Would you like the email they just sent me?
Brian: Just send it over, and I'll ask my colleagues to check on this
Email - Response (Daniel) - 21/08/2010 11.00 PM Dear Terry, Thank you for your email, Unfortunately you are not allowed to transfer to or from any gambling sites, if you are in Canada. Sorry for the inconvenience. Should you have any questions or feel you have received this email in error, please contact our Customer Service Team available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) . You can also follow us at Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) or connect with us at
(Why anyone would want to follow Neteller on Twitter is beyond me but that's beside the point.)
Terry: Why do you think I use Moneybookers instead of Neteller?
Brian: Thank you, I will let the internal departments know about this
Terry: If there is no way to withdraw this money without depositing I certainly hope you will no longer call this a no deposit bonus.
Brian: The deposit solution is basically a solution for the client to obtain the winnings that would be unobtainable otherwise
Terry: Free means I don't pay and no deposit means I don't need to deposit.
Brian: It's like telling you that you have to options to cross a river
Terry: If I need to make a deposit and then clear a wage requirement then this is actually a deposit bonus.
Brian: you either use the bridge or swim across it
Brian: And the situation here, seems like the bridge collapsed
Brian: so the other option is getting wet
Brian: I see that there seems to be a misunderstanding
Terry: ?
Brian: If I may be so bold to point this out
Brian: if you read the text from the NETeller agent
Brian: It indicates, that if you're from Canada, you can't use NETeller for gaming sites
Terry: Yes.
Brian: That is what struck me as odd
Terry: And I am from Canada.
Terry: As stated in my profile.
Brian: US and Canada cant use NETeller for gaming sites
Brian: Other countries can
Terry: And?
Brian: Well, that means the no-deposit bonus is still called a no deposit bonus
Terry: Nobody told me that this was a ND bonus for everyone except Canada and the US.
Brian: And for US and Canada, that means that unfortunately, they need to make a deposit in order to cash out their trial bonus winnings
Terry: Ok.
Terry: Well, that's really a shame.
Brian: 2 things I want to clarify
Terry: This time it's the Neteller thing. Next time it will be some other problem.
Brian: 1) gambling carries a risk of loss
Brian: If you just play without making a deposit, it's not gambling
Brian: 2) we always pay our clients, as long as they fulfill the requirements we have
Brian: As long as you follow the rules, we pay the winnings without a problem
Brian: And we do pay, we've been in the business for almost 10 years
Terry: You're not looking at this from the player's point of view.
Brian: And trust me when I say, I've seen clients getting paid almost immediately as long as they have their accounts good to go
Brian: I am
Terry: You just assume that because you tell people you're honest everyone will believe you.
Brian: Because I used to be a player
Brian: And I ran into problems with a couple of sites
Brian: So I know what you mean
Brian: The trouble here, is that you're simply assuming the worst
Terry: I have to assume the worst.
Brian: which is ok, because that's being prudent
Brian: The issue is
Brian: If you don't trust a gaming site, then the gaming site will treat you equally in turn
Terry: Wrong.
Terry: If I don't trust a gaming site and they want me to trust them they will work to earn my trust.
Terry: That is good business.
Terry: Trust is earned. Not handed on a silver platter.
Brian: Not exactly
Terry: Yes. Trust is most certainly earned.
Terry: And lost.
Brian: In any case, if you don't want to make use of our services, you may do as you wish
Terry: Ok.
Brian: We provide you good service, and honesty (as all of our rules are on site, no 'secret company policies')
Brian: If you don't wish that, then there is nothing to discuss
Terry: You offered me a no deposit bonus that requires I make a deposit to claim.
Terry: That, in my opinion is dishonest.
Terry: You might not like it but that is my opinion.
Brian: Certainly you're trying to give us a hard time
Terry: You're not giving me a hard time?
Terry: lol
Brian: Because what I offered was an alternate solution that does not go against the established rules of the site
Terry: You offered me a solution to give you my money.
Terry: How is that a solution?
Brian: Because it gives you several options
Terry: You want me to deposit and then meet a wage requirement on my own money.
Terry: Why would I have to meet a wage requirement on my own money?
Brian: 1) it allows you to withdraw your winnings you made from money that isn't from your pocket
Brian: 2) it opens up more payout options for you (depositors can make use of much many options than just NETeller)
Terry: If I was to deposit I wouldn't take a bonus. I would just play with my own money and not worry about a wage requirement. That's how I gamble.
Brian: 3) you can withdraw much more than just the max $150
Brian: Well then, certainly Winward casino isn't for you then
Terry: But I can pretty much guarantee you that if I deposit and start playing now I will lose.
Brian: As you can't gamble here without meeting wagering criteria
Terry: Ok, lets do it this way...
Terry: If I decide to deposit to claim this money...
Terry: How much do I have to deposit?
Brian: $25 ($24.99) is the minimum deposit
Terry: Ok.
Terry: So I deposit 25 dollars. That's peanuts.
Terry: How much do I have to wager?
Brian: 12 times the deposit amount and 12 times the bonus amount
Terry: What bonus amount?
Brian: After that wagering is done, anything on the balance can be withdrawn
Terry: What bonus?
Brian: All deposits come with a deposit bonus
Terry: Even if I don't want the bonus?
Brian: You still get the bonus
Terry: Why would I be forced to take a bonus?
Terry: lol
Terry: How much is the bonus?
Brian: Even if you don't get the bonus, you still have to cover the wagering
Brian: The first deposit bonus is 222% (currently)
Terry: So if I don't take the bonus I have to wager 12x my deposit before I withdraw?
Brian: You still have to cover all the wagering requirements, even if you dont take the bonus
Terry: Including the bonus?
Terry: That I didn't take?
Brian: Exactly
Terry: Ok, lets do the math.
Brian: Allow me a moment to shed some light on this
Brian: The bonus is always given due to this
Brian: 1) it's a way of saying thank you for your business with us
Brian: 2) it's extra money to give you a boost to make more wagers
Terry: So if I deposit 25 dollars and take no bonus I have to wager 966 dollars before I can cash out?
Brian: yes, I know it lifts the wagering criteria up, a skilled/lucky player will still be able to cover the requirements
Terry: But I don't want the bonus. So I start with 25 dollars of my own money and still have a $966 WR before I can cash out?
Brian: $300 from the deposit (12x$25) and $666 from the bonus (12x $55.5)
Brian: Correct
Brian: But then, anything in the balance at that point afterwards, can be cashed out
Terry: Wow.
Terry: 966 dollars wagered on a 25 dollar deposit?
Brian: So, if you're good/lucky, and you have, say, $1000+, you can cash out
Terry: I'm not that lucky.
Brian: Remember that gambling is inherently a risk vs. reward situation
Terry: There should be a max WR of 1x on a deposit with no bonus.
Brian: If you're not willing to take the risk, you can't expect to achieve a reward
Terry: I'm taking a risk everytime I make a wager with my own money.
Brian: There are several reasons as to why there is a wagering requirement
Terry: To make it impossible for people to cash out?
Terry: Bonuses should not be forced on players.
Brian: Not at all -and please, don't try to be snarky-
Brian: It's because we avoid the danger of money laundering
Terry: A 1x WR avoids money laundering.
Brian: If you just want to deposit, and then, take your money out, it's suspicious
Brian: Not quite
Brian: 1x is too low and very easy to cover
Terry: 12x on my own money without a bonus only makes it impossible to win.
Terry: Most reputable casinos do not require a large WR on deposits without bonuses.
Brian: Most other casinos will require you to go with 30x, 60x and even 120x wagering requirements
Brian: And I've played at them, and worked for them as well
Terry: Actually it's more like 10x or 20x and that's only if you take a bonus.
Brian: This, in my opinion, and not because I work here, it's a very good requirement
Terry: No bonus means no WR.
Brian: the 12x/12x
Terry: Except for Sun Palace. I think they have a 5x on deposits without bonuses.
Brian: Well, unfortunately, we operate on this policy on wagering criteria
Terry: Ok.
Brian: (unfortunately, from your perceived point of view)
Terry: Well, this bonus was completely useless because it's not really a no deposit bonus.
Brian: It works, and we do have winning customers each week
Brian: So I believe our discussion is done
And another casino is added to the list of casinos that will never get my money.
Welcome to Live Support my name is Brian how may I be of assistance?
Terry: Hello Brian.
Terry: I won 100 dollars with a no deposit bonus at Winward casino and now I would like to withdraw but Neteller does not allow transferring money too and from gambling sites. So how do I withdraw my money?
Brian: So far, Neteller does allow such transactions
Terry: Would you like the email they just sent me?
Brian: Just send it over, and I'll ask my colleagues to check on this
Email - Response (Daniel) - 21/08/2010 11.00 PM Dear Terry, Thank you for your email, Unfortunately you are not allowed to transfer to or from any gambling sites, if you are in Canada. Sorry for the inconvenience. Should you have any questions or feel you have received this email in error, please contact our Customer Service Team available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) . You can also follow us at Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) or connect with us at
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
. Thank you for choosing NETELLER! Daniel Contact Centre Agent (2180)(Why anyone would want to follow Neteller on Twitter is beyond me but that's beside the point.)
Terry: Why do you think I use Moneybookers instead of Neteller?
Brian: Thank you, I will let the internal departments know about this
Terry: If there is no way to withdraw this money without depositing I certainly hope you will no longer call this a no deposit bonus.
Brian: The deposit solution is basically a solution for the client to obtain the winnings that would be unobtainable otherwise
Terry: Free means I don't pay and no deposit means I don't need to deposit.
Brian: It's like telling you that you have to options to cross a river
Terry: If I need to make a deposit and then clear a wage requirement then this is actually a deposit bonus.
Brian: you either use the bridge or swim across it
Brian: And the situation here, seems like the bridge collapsed
Brian: so the other option is getting wet
Brian: I see that there seems to be a misunderstanding
Terry: ?
Brian: If I may be so bold to point this out
Brian: if you read the text from the NETeller agent
Brian: It indicates, that if you're from Canada, you can't use NETeller for gaming sites
Terry: Yes.
Brian: That is what struck me as odd
Terry: And I am from Canada.
Terry: As stated in my profile.
Brian: US and Canada cant use NETeller for gaming sites
Brian: Other countries can
Terry: And?
Brian: Well, that means the no-deposit bonus is still called a no deposit bonus
Terry: Nobody told me that this was a ND bonus for everyone except Canada and the US.
Brian: And for US and Canada, that means that unfortunately, they need to make a deposit in order to cash out their trial bonus winnings
Terry: Ok.
Terry: Well, that's really a shame.
Brian: 2 things I want to clarify
Terry: This time it's the Neteller thing. Next time it will be some other problem.
Brian: 1) gambling carries a risk of loss
Brian: If you just play without making a deposit, it's not gambling
Brian: 2) we always pay our clients, as long as they fulfill the requirements we have
Brian: As long as you follow the rules, we pay the winnings without a problem
Brian: And we do pay, we've been in the business for almost 10 years
Terry: You're not looking at this from the player's point of view.
Brian: And trust me when I say, I've seen clients getting paid almost immediately as long as they have their accounts good to go
Brian: I am
Terry: You just assume that because you tell people you're honest everyone will believe you.
Brian: Because I used to be a player
Brian: And I ran into problems with a couple of sites
Brian: So I know what you mean
Brian: The trouble here, is that you're simply assuming the worst
Terry: I have to assume the worst.
Brian: which is ok, because that's being prudent
Brian: The issue is
Brian: If you don't trust a gaming site, then the gaming site will treat you equally in turn
Terry: Wrong.
Terry: If I don't trust a gaming site and they want me to trust them they will work to earn my trust.
Terry: That is good business.
Terry: Trust is earned. Not handed on a silver platter.
Brian: Not exactly
Terry: Yes. Trust is most certainly earned.
Terry: And lost.
Brian: In any case, if you don't want to make use of our services, you may do as you wish
Terry: Ok.
Brian: We provide you good service, and honesty (as all of our rules are on site, no 'secret company policies')
Brian: If you don't wish that, then there is nothing to discuss
Terry: You offered me a no deposit bonus that requires I make a deposit to claim.
Terry: That, in my opinion is dishonest.
Terry: You might not like it but that is my opinion.
Brian: Certainly you're trying to give us a hard time
Terry: You're not giving me a hard time?
Terry: lol
Brian: Because what I offered was an alternate solution that does not go against the established rules of the site
Terry: You offered me a solution to give you my money.
Terry: How is that a solution?
Brian: Because it gives you several options
Terry: You want me to deposit and then meet a wage requirement on my own money.
Terry: Why would I have to meet a wage requirement on my own money?
Brian: 1) it allows you to withdraw your winnings you made from money that isn't from your pocket
Brian: 2) it opens up more payout options for you (depositors can make use of much many options than just NETeller)
Terry: If I was to deposit I wouldn't take a bonus. I would just play with my own money and not worry about a wage requirement. That's how I gamble.
Brian: 3) you can withdraw much more than just the max $150
Brian: Well then, certainly Winward casino isn't for you then
Terry: But I can pretty much guarantee you that if I deposit and start playing now I will lose.
Brian: As you can't gamble here without meeting wagering criteria
Terry: Ok, lets do it this way...
Terry: If I decide to deposit to claim this money...
Terry: How much do I have to deposit?
Brian: $25 ($24.99) is the minimum deposit
Terry: Ok.
Terry: So I deposit 25 dollars. That's peanuts.
Terry: How much do I have to wager?
Brian: 12 times the deposit amount and 12 times the bonus amount
Terry: What bonus amount?
Brian: After that wagering is done, anything on the balance can be withdrawn
Terry: What bonus?
Brian: All deposits come with a deposit bonus
Terry: Even if I don't want the bonus?
Brian: You still get the bonus
Terry: Why would I be forced to take a bonus?
Terry: lol
Terry: How much is the bonus?
Brian: Even if you don't get the bonus, you still have to cover the wagering
Brian: The first deposit bonus is 222% (currently)
Terry: So if I don't take the bonus I have to wager 12x my deposit before I withdraw?
Brian: You still have to cover all the wagering requirements, even if you dont take the bonus
Terry: Including the bonus?
Terry: That I didn't take?
Brian: Exactly
Terry: Ok, lets do the math.
Brian: Allow me a moment to shed some light on this
Brian: The bonus is always given due to this
Brian: 1) it's a way of saying thank you for your business with us
Brian: 2) it's extra money to give you a boost to make more wagers
Terry: So if I deposit 25 dollars and take no bonus I have to wager 966 dollars before I can cash out?
Brian: yes, I know it lifts the wagering criteria up, a skilled/lucky player will still be able to cover the requirements
Terry: But I don't want the bonus. So I start with 25 dollars of my own money and still have a $966 WR before I can cash out?
Brian: $300 from the deposit (12x$25) and $666 from the bonus (12x $55.5)
Brian: Correct
Brian: But then, anything in the balance at that point afterwards, can be cashed out
Terry: Wow.
Terry: 966 dollars wagered on a 25 dollar deposit?
Brian: So, if you're good/lucky, and you have, say, $1000+, you can cash out
Terry: I'm not that lucky.
Brian: Remember that gambling is inherently a risk vs. reward situation
Terry: There should be a max WR of 1x on a deposit with no bonus.
Brian: If you're not willing to take the risk, you can't expect to achieve a reward
Terry: I'm taking a risk everytime I make a wager with my own money.
Brian: There are several reasons as to why there is a wagering requirement
Terry: To make it impossible for people to cash out?
Terry: Bonuses should not be forced on players.
Brian: Not at all -and please, don't try to be snarky-
Brian: It's because we avoid the danger of money laundering
Terry: A 1x WR avoids money laundering.
Brian: If you just want to deposit, and then, take your money out, it's suspicious
Brian: Not quite
Brian: 1x is too low and very easy to cover
Terry: 12x on my own money without a bonus only makes it impossible to win.
Terry: Most reputable casinos do not require a large WR on deposits without bonuses.
Brian: Most other casinos will require you to go with 30x, 60x and even 120x wagering requirements
Brian: And I've played at them, and worked for them as well
Terry: Actually it's more like 10x or 20x and that's only if you take a bonus.
Brian: This, in my opinion, and not because I work here, it's a very good requirement
Terry: No bonus means no WR.
Brian: the 12x/12x
Terry: Except for Sun Palace. I think they have a 5x on deposits without bonuses.
Brian: Well, unfortunately, we operate on this policy on wagering criteria
Terry: Ok.
Brian: (unfortunately, from your perceived point of view)
Terry: Well, this bonus was completely useless because it's not really a no deposit bonus.
Brian: It works, and we do have winning customers each week
Brian: So I believe our discussion is done
And another casino is added to the list of casinos that will never get my money.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
- Location
- Ontario
While I don't think it is totally unreasonable for casinos to require a deposit in order to cash out a ND bonus to your choice of ewallet, that deposit should be free of any WR if you don't take a bonus and withdrawable in full, together with your winnings from the ND bonus.
It is rogue behaviour to insist players take a bonus on a deposit.
At least all you lost was your time.
It is rogue behaviour to insist players take a bonus on a deposit.
At least all you lost was your time.
What's even more laughable is that you don't actually have to take the bonus but you still need to cover the same WR as if you did.
I would have almost 1k WR on a $25 deposit even if I don't take the bonus.
I deposit at Winward all the time and never take a bonus and I do not have any WR...
Terry: Ok.
Terry: So I deposit 25 dollars. That's peanuts.
Terry: How much do I have to wager?
Brian: 12 times the deposit amount and 12 times the bonus amount
Terry: What bonus amount?
Brian: After that wagering is done, anything on the balance can be withdrawn
Terry: What bonus?
Brian: All deposits come with a deposit bonus
Terry: Even if I don't want the bonus?
Brian: You still get the bonus
Terry: Why would I be forced to take a bonus?
Terry: lol
Terry: How much is the bonus?
Brian: Even if you don't get the bonus, you still have to cover the wagering
Brian: The first deposit bonus is 222% (currently)
Terry: So if I don't take the bonus I have to wager 12x my deposit before I withdraw?
Brian: You still have to cover all the wagering requirements, even if you dont take the bonus
Terry: Including the bonus?
Terry: That I didn't take?
Brian: Exactly
So is Brian out to lunch?
I think Brian is out to lunch and dinner
Honestly I deposit there all the time..Once in awhile I take a bonus...I have never had to meet any WR on non bonuses...I am going to log in now and see if Ricky is available and find out what is going on...I am not sure if he is there on Sundays...But I will let you know...
They still are doing it?
Here's the thread from feb 2008 about "must take bonus":
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ter-that-is-no-longer-wanted-or-needed.22846/
The thread from July 2008 about advantage play = fraud:
https://www.casinomeister.com/online-casinos/reviews/winward/
And according to that thread they were on probation 22 jan 2010!
Maybe they belong in the not recommended section again?
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Location
- somewhere on the planet
Sounds like they are pulling the same garbage they have pulled in the past. And, if they still have the same game platform they use to have, they are a junk casino anyway. 
There are still many good and honest casinos for everyone so they should not have to deal with Winward and their rogue behavior.
There are still many good and honest casinos for everyone so they should not have to deal with Winward and their rogue behavior.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Location
- GA
Brian was on the bridge when it collapsed....cuz now he's all wet
I think Brian is out to lunch and dinner
Honestly I deposit there all the time..Once in awhile I take a bonus...I have never had to meet any WR on non bonuses...I am going to log in now and see if Ricky is available and find out what is going on...I am not sure if he is there on Sundays...But I will let you know...
Personally I think I wasn't supposed to win anything with that ND bonus. So now that I want to cash out they want to turn it into a deposit bonus with a WR in a second attempt to get me to lose it.
Ricky was not in today..Will be in tomorrow...
I made a 50.00 deposit (no bonus) and played for a bit and just did a withdrawl of 200.00 , no WR required...
Ask him to come here and explain why I was told I require a deposit bonus during my live chat and via email.
It might be a good idea to contact both their reps here, MissMD and RGiants-Mo
Skiny, spoke via live chat to Ricky..There is no such requirement..There are only WR with bonuses...If you deposit without bonus there is no WR...
I requested a payout last night and it is in my QT already..I really have had no problems with them....good luck
I requested a payout last night and it is in my QT already..I really have had no problems with them....good luck
No offense but I'd really rather hear that from a CSW or casino management. I've talked to them via live chat and I emailed them and they didn't respond. As it stands how I have 100 dollars in an account that I will never be able to get the money out of without making a deposit and clearing a new WR.
I invited several people from this casino to join this thread. I haven't seen anyone yet.
Forget it. I went back tonight just to fool around and lost the entire 110 dollars with about a 25% RTP which I kind of figure was the plan to begin with.
I seriously doubt anyone ever planned to pay me in the first place. Keeping me hanging around till I lost the money is the oldest trick in the book.
I don't care. I just played it down to zero and closed my account. It cost me nothing anyway.
I don't think I'll ever play with Topgame software again though. At least they accomplished that.
I seriously doubt anyone ever planned to pay me in the first place. Keeping me hanging around till I lost the money is the oldest trick in the book.
I don't care. I just played it down to zero and closed my account. It cost me nothing anyway.
I don't think I'll ever play with Topgame software again though. At least they accomplished that.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2006
- Location
- Romania/Costa Rica/UK
WinwardCasino is not Rogue!
I'm sorry for the delay with my answer as I'm traveling at the moment.
Thanks Skiny for the message you sent me to join this thread, and thanks to weplant, maphesto for the kind words and assistant much appreciated.
However, I must say Skiny I was a bit confused you send me a message "join the thread" rather than "I need your assistance with this x issue" usually when someone truly needs help or want an issue to be solved he does it differently, that is why I am a bit confused as to what was your purpose of this thread in the first place, but there are my answers to clear some misunderstandings here.
1. Free ND money- You mentioned you didn't read the T&C that is wrong and you should, it clearly say free money can be withdrawn to Neteller only, thus, if you dont have or can use Neteller you cannot withdraw the money made of the free ND money.
2. Deposit Bonus- You do not have to take bonus for deposit if you dont want to but you were talking about free ND bonus, an I wrong? perhaps that was the reason the agent gave you that answer, but will check again with his manager just in case.
3. we dont only use TopGame we also use Parlay, we have two versions for WinwardCasino the download and non download (instant play) each use a different software provider.
4. we are not on the Rogue list cause we are improving each time and I am working very closed to Casinomeister to solve any issue before it even get to be posted, I think this is how it should be, and this is how you solve issues and become a better site.
5. last but not least and Very important, we have no relation to Rich Casino!!! maphesto you mentioned that on your post, (I think I explained to you before though) we helped them when they started and we also helped TopGame as we were one of their first licensee they used our site as a template creating other client sites (unfortunately from time to time I still find Winwardcasino info such as our phone number when they open a new casino client) but WinwardCasino dont own Rich Casino.
Best Regards,
Malci
Affiliate Manager
Revenue Giants.com
I'm sorry for the delay with my answer as I'm traveling at the moment.
Thanks Skiny for the message you sent me to join this thread, and thanks to weplant, maphesto for the kind words and assistant much appreciated.
However, I must say Skiny I was a bit confused you send me a message "join the thread" rather than "I need your assistance with this x issue" usually when someone truly needs help or want an issue to be solved he does it differently, that is why I am a bit confused as to what was your purpose of this thread in the first place, but there are my answers to clear some misunderstandings here.
1. Free ND money- You mentioned you didn't read the T&C that is wrong and you should, it clearly say free money can be withdrawn to Neteller only, thus, if you dont have or can use Neteller you cannot withdraw the money made of the free ND money.
2. Deposit Bonus- You do not have to take bonus for deposit if you dont want to but you were talking about free ND bonus, an I wrong? perhaps that was the reason the agent gave you that answer, but will check again with his manager just in case.
3. we dont only use TopGame we also use Parlay, we have two versions for WinwardCasino the download and non download (instant play) each use a different software provider.
4. we are not on the Rogue list cause we are improving each time and I am working very closed to Casinomeister to solve any issue before it even get to be posted, I think this is how it should be, and this is how you solve issues and become a better site.
5. last but not least and Very important, we have no relation to Rich Casino!!! maphesto you mentioned that on your post, (I think I explained to you before though) we helped them when they started and we also helped TopGame as we were one of their first licensee they used our site as a template creating other client sites (unfortunately from time to time I still find Winwardcasino info such as our phone number when they open a new casino client) but WinwardCasino dont own Rich Casino.
Best Regards,
Malci
Affiliate Manager
Revenue Giants.com
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
I'm sorry for the delay with my answer as I'm traveling at the moment.
Thanks Skiny for the message you sent me to join this thread, and thanks to weplant, maphesto for the kind words and assistant much appreciated.
However, I must say Skiny I was a bit confused you send me a message "join the thread" rather than "I need your assistance with this x issue" usually when someone truly needs help or want an issue to be solved he does it differently, that is why I am a bit confused as to what was your purpose of this thread in the first place, but there are my answers to clear some misunderstandings here.
1. Free ND money- You mentioned you didn't read the T&C that is wrong and you should, it clearly say free money can be withdrawn to Neteller only, thus, if you dont have or can use Neteller you cannot withdraw the money made of the free ND money.
2. Deposit Bonus- You do not have to take bonus for deposit if you dont want to but you were talking about free ND bonus, an I wrong? perhaps that was the reason the agent gave you that answer, but will check again with his manager just in case.
3. we dont only use TopGame we also use Parlay, we have two versions for WinwardCasino the download and non download (instant play) each use a different software provider.
4. we are not on the Rogue list cause we are improving each time and I am working very closed to Casinomeister to solve any issue before it even get to be posted, I think this is how it should be, and this is how you solve issues and become a better site.
5. last but not least and Very important, we have no relation to Rich Casino!!! maphesto you mentioned that on your post, (I think I explained to you before though) we helped them when they started and we also helped TopGame as we were one of their first licensee they used our site as a template creating other client sites (unfortunately from time to time I still find Winwardcasino info such as our phone number when they open a new casino client) but WinwardCasino dont own Rich Casino.
Best Regards,
Malci
Affiliate Manager
Revenue Giants.com
You have dodged the issue surrounding that live chat example. This was CLEARLY about a DEPOSIT bonus, and your rep CLEARLY stated this was COMPULSORY, and even if not claimed, the WR had to be completed as though it were. This is the reason you are considered rogue - FORCING players to take a bonus.
The ND chip only being withdrawable to Neteller is WEIRD. There is no logical reason for this other than you being "in bed" with Neteller, and using this to promote Neteller to your players. Unfortunately, not everybody is even ALLOWED a Neteller account, including the LARGEST market of all, the USA. This looks like a back-door way to severely limit the number of players who get a "fair crack" at winning from the ND chip. If they can never withdraw, then advertising it as a ND free chip with the possibilty of winning is misleading.
Other businesses use similar tactics, making an offer of something for free, but making it virtually impossible to actually get it. The many "cashback" deals here in the UK were once run like this. Buy an item, and get ALL your money back in 5 or 10 years (subject to jumping through numerous hoops, each designed to prevent you from succeeding). Many people were ripped off by this, and in the end our Trading Standards shut them down, and this type of scheme is now ILLEGAL TO OPERATE.
Since you operate your ND offer in a similar manner, players from the largest market of all (USA and Canada) will think you set out to screw them over with an offer with terms they could never actually comply with. They will thus form the opinion that you are rogue.
Being associated with TopGame has made things worse, and you have seen how where they continue to use YOUR business information for new portals that have NOTHING to do with you. This makes players think you are operating "secret sister" casinos, something that rogue groups like Virtual have been doing for a while.
When you were Parlay, I tried you out, and there were a number of traits that lead me to believe you were at the very least "dodgy". It took me a YEAR to get paid the remaining balance in my account once I had decided to stop playing there, and ALL my emails were ignored for that entire time, and I could not log in to use messaging because my account had been locked out for inactivity. Eventually, someone in the forum had an "insider contact", which was the ONLY way I was able to get the balance out.
Ignoring all email communications, and further shutting down ALL alternatives to email such as internal messaging (which cannot be accessed from a locked account), whilst money is still owed to a player is yet ANOTHER tactic that makes you look rogue.
The fact is that this thread demonstrates that you are STILL operating some of these rogue tactics, such as adding a WR to a deposit WITHOUT a bonus as a form of punishment for players who wish to avoid withdrawal problems by not taking a bonus.
I feel like we are not talking about the same Winward Casino...I cannot comment on ND bonus, because I have never taken one...When I first started playing at Winward, the rep, Ricky, told me to make sure I read the T&C's and that I understood their requirements and how their withdrawl process works..
I have played there with and without bonus...Their WR is 12x's and the bonus is cashable (very fair, in the light of other casinos)...For the most part I play without bonus...There is absolutely no WR and never has been for playing without a bonus..When you make your first few deposits, they may offer a automatic welcome bonus, just live chat that you do no want it and they remove it immediately..No problem...
The withdrawl procedure can take a bit of time for your first withdrawl..However, I have made a couple of withdrawls since my first and they run smoothly and quickly..No it is not 20 minutes like 3dice, but in a reasonable amount of time...
I am not sure what happened with the original post with their ND bonus..However, if in the T&C it states that you can only withdrawl with neteller, then I guess that is how it is..
I deposit and withdrawl with QT with no problems...
Again, I cannot comment on ND bonus as I have never taken one there..But, I know reading their (and any c asino's) T&C's is very important.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2006
- Location
- Romania/Costa Rica/UK
WinwardCasino
I agree with weplant and I appreciate you take the time to share your experience here, :notworthy I also havent got many issues reported to me as I used to before, in fact on the contrary I got many good feedback that things are going on the right direction.
vinylweatherman, The free bonus withdrawal is not misleading it is written very clearly and not hidden in anyway, anyone that reads it and from a location that NETeller don't operates knows that very well, so you have the option not to use it, in fact I am going to ask Winward if they can add a clause there "You may request the option not to receive any Bonuses" (just in a better English ;-) ) you think that can help?
re the live chat as I said, I know there is an option to disable your Bonus, as I helped a player that asked about it the other day and Ricky the casino host fixed it for him, so I dont know why Brian said what he said I emailed his manager that chat I'll wait to hear from her.
and, WinwardCasino still use Parlay version as well as TopGame, in fact there is a rumor they are going to add a third software soon.. very exciting :yahoo:
Also, vinylweatherman how can I control that if they use our info on their portals? you know how many affiliates copy our content or each others content to save time when they start their website there is nothing I can do besides always writing to them to tell them it needs to be removed and that it is misleading, to their defense they do remove it quite quickly.
And I dont think by helping other groups you become their sister sites, this industry is very small we all know each other and I personally help several bingo and casino programs as well as affiliate programs, I help them and I know when I will need they will help me as well, for example, did you know that many casinos share black list of players? it could never have worked if we weren't helping each other, that helps avoid fraudulent players entering the website, I also personally share black list of fraudulent affiliates and alert my competitors if I was "hit" by a media, advertiser or an affiliate that tried to abuse my program, and they do the same.
pls let me know re my suggestion if I shall ask them to add that clause or something else? if you think that can help.
Thanks, Malci
Revenue Giants.com
p.s excuse my grammar it is 3am here and I'm having a very bad JetLeg flying over 30 hours in the last week or so
I agree with weplant and I appreciate you take the time to share your experience here, :notworthy I also havent got many issues reported to me as I used to before, in fact on the contrary I got many good feedback that things are going on the right direction.
vinylweatherman, The free bonus withdrawal is not misleading it is written very clearly and not hidden in anyway, anyone that reads it and from a location that NETeller don't operates knows that very well, so you have the option not to use it, in fact I am going to ask Winward if they can add a clause there "You may request the option not to receive any Bonuses" (just in a better English ;-) ) you think that can help?
re the live chat as I said, I know there is an option to disable your Bonus, as I helped a player that asked about it the other day and Ricky the casino host fixed it for him, so I dont know why Brian said what he said I emailed his manager that chat I'll wait to hear from her.
and, WinwardCasino still use Parlay version as well as TopGame, in fact there is a rumor they are going to add a third software soon.. very exciting :yahoo:
Also, vinylweatherman how can I control that if they use our info on their portals? you know how many affiliates copy our content or each others content to save time when they start their website there is nothing I can do besides always writing to them to tell them it needs to be removed and that it is misleading, to their defense they do remove it quite quickly.
And I dont think by helping other groups you become their sister sites, this industry is very small we all know each other and I personally help several bingo and casino programs as well as affiliate programs, I help them and I know when I will need they will help me as well, for example, did you know that many casinos share black list of players? it could never have worked if we weren't helping each other, that helps avoid fraudulent players entering the website, I also personally share black list of fraudulent affiliates and alert my competitors if I was "hit" by a media, advertiser or an affiliate that tried to abuse my program, and they do the same.
pls let me know re my suggestion if I shall ask them to add that clause or something else? if you think that can help.
Thanks, Malci
Revenue Giants.com
p.s excuse my grammar it is 3am here and I'm having a very bad JetLeg flying over 30 hours in the last week or so
What I do know is I got a completely different version of the rules from your CSW named Brian and telling a client that he MUST take a bonus on his deposit and if he doesn't he STILL has to clear the WR on the bonus and the deposit is a rather difficult thing to make a mistake on. No CSW should be that far out to lunch and for that very reason I knew I was not going to come back and deposit under these circumstances simply because your casino refused to allow any method of withdrawal on your ND bonus except one that all Canadians can't use.
That's why I came back and dumped my remaining balance and that's why I will not be back to try again.
I'd still love to hear any valid reason that I should be able to withdraw to Neteller but not Moneybookers under any circumstances. The fact that I'm supposed to win something on a ND bonus and then clear the WR on that bonus and then make a deposit and then clear the WR on that bonus and the deposit and then be allowed to withdraw the money to Moneybookers that I wasn't allowed to withdraw to Moneybookers before jumping through 3 dozen hoops is at the very least suspicious to me.
As I said, I didn't bother with the Terms and conditions before I started because I've never had a problem with the terms and conditions on any ND in my life regardless of what they are but then I've never heard of a ND bonus offered to an entire country that has no way to claim it without making a deposit and then claiming a second deposit bonus.
Keep your bonus and keep your games. I'll play where the rules make sense.
That's why I came back and dumped my remaining balance and that's why I will not be back to try again.
I'd still love to hear any valid reason that I should be able to withdraw to Neteller but not Moneybookers under any circumstances. The fact that I'm supposed to win something on a ND bonus and then clear the WR on that bonus and then make a deposit and then clear the WR on that bonus and the deposit and then be allowed to withdraw the money to Moneybookers that I wasn't allowed to withdraw to Moneybookers before jumping through 3 dozen hoops is at the very least suspicious to me.
As I said, I didn't bother with the Terms and conditions before I started because I've never had a problem with the terms and conditions on any ND in my life regardless of what they are but then I've never heard of a ND bonus offered to an entire country that has no way to claim it without making a deposit and then claiming a second deposit bonus.
Keep your bonus and keep your games. I'll play where the rules make sense.
