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Rogue?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by skiny, Aug 21, 2010.

    Aug 21, 2010
  1. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Is Winward (Topgame) a Rogue casino? I don't see it.
     
  2. Aug 21, 2010
  3. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    You've sort of answered your own question! :p

    Winward as a casino is not in the rogue pit, but Bryan put the whole Top Game platform in there under "Bumblings, Blunders and Negligence".
    I don't think this has been reviewed since (things may have improved), and it was not terribly fair on the individual casinos in my personal opinion.

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Aug 21, 2010
  5. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Just because I don't see something doesn't mean it's not there!

    It took me years to see my exwife was a nutcase and I looked at her everyday.
     
    4 people like this.
  6. Aug 21, 2010
  7. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Winward Casino has been in the rogue pit or under review a couple of times.
    I think that the last warning disappeared less than a year ago. I might be wrong, but during many years they used to use the "fraud" clause whenever a player was using advantage play.
    They also during some time forced ALL players to use a bonus with WR. You weren't even able to deposit without bonus. This was around three years ago.

    And don't forget, Winward Casino has the same owner as the recently rogued Rich Casino.

    PROCEED WITH CARE/CAUTION!
     
  8. Aug 21, 2010
  9. weplant

    weplant Meister Member

    Occupation:
    own nursery
    Location:
    napa, ca
    I have been playing at Winward for a few months. I have not had problems..I have made 3 withdrawls..The first one took a while because of docs, etc. The last 2 I had within 48 hours to my QT...They have decent bonuses (although I no longer take bonuses) and there WR is 12x's which is decent...good luck:cool:
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Aug 21, 2010
  11. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    So Winward is Wayward... :D
     
  12. Aug 21, 2010
  13. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    I wanted to try the software. I've taken a few Topgame ND bonuses to try the games but I never last more than the first game I play.

    This time I made it up to 100 bucks so I wanted to try to cash out.

    I didn't bother with the T&C because first of all I never win anyway and second of all it's usually all just WR and max cash outs. I figured I'd have a look when it became important. I was willing to accept pretty much any WR or Max cash out since I wasn't playing with my own money anyway.

    Turns out all ND bonuses require the player to use Neteller to withdraw. I don't use Neteller.

    Bonus useless.
     
  14. Aug 22, 2010
  15. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly. Or feel free to open a help desk ticket for timely assistance.
    Welcome to Live Support my name is Brian how may I be of assistance?
    Terry: Hello Brian.
    Terry: I won 100 dollars with a no deposit bonus at Winward casino and now I would like to withdraw but Neteller does not allow transferring money too and from gambling sites. So how do I withdraw my money?
    Brian: So far, Neteller does allow such transactions
    Terry: Would you like the email they just sent me?
    Brian: Just send it over, and I'll ask my colleagues to check on this

    Email - Response (Daniel) - 21/08/2010 11.00 PM Dear Terry, Thank you for your email, Unfortunately you are not allowed to transfer to or from any gambling sites, if you are in Canada. Sorry for the inconvenience. Should you have any questions or feel you have received this email in error, please contact our Customer Service Team available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at You must register/login in order to see the link.. You can also follow us at You must register/login in order to see the link. or connect with us at You must register/login in order to see the link.. Thank you for choosing NETELLER! Daniel Contact Centre Agent (2180)

    (Why anyone would want to follow Neteller on Twitter is beyond me but that's beside the point.)


    Terry: Why do you think I use Moneybookers instead of Neteller?
    Brian: Thank you, I will let the internal departments know about this
    Terry: If there is no way to withdraw this money without depositing I certainly hope you will no longer call this a no deposit bonus.
    Brian: The deposit solution is basically a solution for the client to obtain the winnings that would be unobtainable otherwise
    Terry: Free means I don't pay and no deposit means I don't need to deposit.
    Brian: It's like telling you that you have to options to cross a river
    Terry: If I need to make a deposit and then clear a wage requirement then this is actually a deposit bonus.
    Brian: you either use the bridge or swim across it
    Brian: And the situation here, seems like the bridge collapsed
    Brian: so the other option is getting wet
    Brian: I see that there seems to be a misunderstanding
    Terry: ?
    Brian: If I may be so bold to point this out
    Brian: if you read the text from the NETeller agent
    Brian: It indicates, that if you're from Canada, you can't use NETeller for gaming sites
    Terry: Yes.
    Brian: That is what struck me as odd
    Terry: And I am from Canada.
    Terry: As stated in my profile.
    Brian: US and Canada cant use NETeller for gaming sites
    Brian: Other countries can
    Terry: And?
    Brian: Well, that means the no-deposit bonus is still called a no deposit bonus
    Terry: Nobody told me that this was a ND bonus for everyone except Canada and the US.
    Brian: And for US and Canada, that means that unfortunately, they need to make a deposit in order to cash out their trial bonus winnings
    Terry: Ok.
    Terry: Well, that's really a shame.
    Brian: 2 things I want to clarify
    Terry: This time it's the Neteller thing. Next time it will be some other problem.
    Brian: 1) gambling carries a risk of loss
    Brian: If you just play without making a deposit, it's not gambling
    Brian: 2) we always pay our clients, as long as they fulfill the requirements we have
    Brian: As long as you follow the rules, we pay the winnings without a problem
    Brian: And we do pay, we've been in the business for almost 10 years
    Terry: You're not looking at this from the player's point of view.
    Brian: And trust me when I say, I've seen clients getting paid almost immediately as long as they have their accounts good to go
    Brian: I am
    Terry: You just assume that because you tell people you're honest everyone will believe you.
    Brian: Because I used to be a player
    Brian: And I ran into problems with a couple of sites
    Brian: So I know what you mean
    Brian: The trouble here, is that you're simply assuming the worst
    Terry: I have to assume the worst.
    Brian: which is ok, because that's being prudent
    Brian: The issue is
    Brian: If you don't trust a gaming site, then the gaming site will treat you equally in turn
    Terry: Wrong.
    Terry: If I don't trust a gaming site and they want me to trust them they will work to earn my trust.
    Terry: That is good business.
    Terry: Trust is earned. Not handed on a silver platter.
    Brian: Not exactly
    Terry: Yes. Trust is most certainly earned.
    Terry: And lost.
    Brian: In any case, if you don't want to make use of our services, you may do as you wish
    Terry: Ok.
    Brian: We provide you good service, and honesty (as all of our rules are on site, no 'secret company policies')
    Brian: If you don't wish that, then there is nothing to discuss
    Terry: You offered me a no deposit bonus that requires I make a deposit to claim.
    Terry: That, in my opinion is dishonest.
    Terry: You might not like it but that is my opinion.
    Brian: Certainly you're trying to give us a hard time
    Terry: You're not giving me a hard time?
    Terry: lol
    Brian: Because what I offered was an alternate solution that does not go against the established rules of the site
    Terry: You offered me a solution to give you my money.
    Terry: How is that a solution?
    Brian: Because it gives you several options
    Terry: You want me to deposit and then meet a wage requirement on my own money.
    Terry: Why would I have to meet a wage requirement on my own money?
    Brian: 1) it allows you to withdraw your winnings you made from money that isn't from your pocket
    Brian: 2) it opens up more payout options for you (depositors can make use of much many options than just NETeller)
    Terry: If I was to deposit I wouldn't take a bonus. I would just play with my own money and not worry about a wage requirement. That's how I gamble.
    Brian: 3) you can withdraw much more than just the max $150
    Brian: Well then, certainly Winward casino isn't for you then
    Terry: But I can pretty much guarantee you that if I deposit and start playing now I will lose.
    Brian: As you can't gamble here without meeting wagering criteria
    Terry: Ok, lets do it this way...
    Terry: If I decide to deposit to claim this money...
    Terry: How much do I have to deposit?
    Brian: $25 ($24.99) is the minimum deposit
    Terry: Ok.
    Terry: So I deposit 25 dollars. That's peanuts.
    Terry: How much do I have to wager?
    Brian: 12 times the deposit amount and 12 times the bonus amount
    Terry: What bonus amount?
    Brian: After that wagering is done, anything on the balance can be withdrawn
    Terry: What bonus?
    Brian: All deposits come with a deposit bonus
    Terry: Even if I don't want the bonus?
    Brian: You still get the bonus

    Terry: Why would I be forced to take a bonus?
    Terry: lol
    Terry: How much is the bonus?
    Brian: Even if you don't get the bonus, you still have to cover the wagering
    Brian: The first deposit bonus is 222% (currently)
    Terry: So if I don't take the bonus I have to wager 12x my deposit before I withdraw?
    Brian: You still have to cover all the wagering requirements, even if you dont take the bonus
    Terry: Including the bonus?
    Terry: That I didn't take?
    Brian: Exactly
    Terry: Ok, lets do the math.
    Brian: Allow me a moment to shed some light on this
    Brian: The bonus is always given due to this
    Brian: 1) it's a way of saying thank you for your business with us
    Brian: 2) it's extra money to give you a boost to make more wagers
    Terry: So if I deposit 25 dollars and take no bonus I have to wager 966 dollars before I can cash out?
    Brian: yes, I know it lifts the wagering criteria up, a skilled/lucky player will still be able to cover the requirements
    Terry: But I don't want the bonus. So I start with 25 dollars of my own money and still have a $966 WR before I can cash out?
    Brian: $300 from the deposit (12x$25) and $666 from the bonus (12x $55.5)
    Brian: Correct
    Brian: But then, anything in the balance at that point afterwards, can be cashed out
    Terry: Wow.
    Terry: 966 dollars wagered on a 25 dollar deposit?
    Brian: So, if you're good/lucky, and you have, say, $1000+, you can cash out
    Terry: I'm not that lucky.
    Brian: Remember that gambling is inherently a risk vs. reward situation
    Terry: There should be a max WR of 1x on a deposit with no bonus.
    Brian: If you're not willing to take the risk, you can't expect to achieve a reward
    Terry: I'm taking a risk everytime I make a wager with my own money.
    Brian: There are several reasons as to why there is a wagering requirement
    Terry: To make it impossible for people to cash out?
    Terry: Bonuses should not be forced on players.
    Brian: Not at all -and please, don't try to be snarky-
    Brian: It's because we avoid the danger of money laundering
    Terry: A 1x WR avoids money laundering.
    Brian: If you just want to deposit, and then, take your money out, it's suspicious
    Brian: Not quite
    Brian: 1x is too low and very easy to cover
    Terry: 12x on my own money without a bonus only makes it impossible to win.
    Terry: Most reputable casinos do not require a large WR on deposits without bonuses.
    Brian: Most other casinos will require you to go with 30x, 60x and even 120x wagering requirements
    Brian: And I've played at them, and worked for them as well
    Terry: Actually it's more like 10x or 20x and that's only if you take a bonus.
    Brian: This, in my opinion, and not because I work here, it's a very good requirement
    Terry: No bonus means no WR.
    Brian: the 12x/12x
    Terry: Except for Sun Palace. I think they have a 5x on deposits without bonuses.
    Brian: Well, unfortunately, we operate on this policy on wagering criteria
    Terry: Ok.
    Brian: (unfortunately, from your perceived point of view)
    Terry: Well, this bonus was completely useless because it's not really a no deposit bonus.
    Brian: It works, and we do have winning customers each week
    Brian: So I believe our discussion is done

    And another casino is added to the list of casinos that will never get my money.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Aug 22, 2010
  17. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    While I don't think it is totally unreasonable for casinos to require a deposit in order to cash out a ND bonus to your choice of ewallet, that deposit should be free of any WR if you don't take a bonus and withdrawable in full, together with your winnings from the ND bonus.

    It is rogue behaviour to insist players take a bonus on a deposit.

    At least all you lost was your time.
     
  18. Aug 22, 2010
  19. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    What's even more laughable is that you don't actually have to take the bonus but you still need to cover the same WR as if you did.

    I would have almost 1k WR on a $25 deposit even if I don't take the bonus.
     
  20. Aug 22, 2010
  21. weplant

    weplant Meister Member

    Occupation:
    own nursery
    Location:
    napa, ca
    I deposit at Winward all the time and never take a bonus and I do not have any WR...
     
  22. Aug 22, 2010
  23. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Terry: Ok.
    Terry: So I deposit 25 dollars. That's peanuts.
    Terry: How much do I have to wager?
    Brian: 12 times the deposit amount and 12 times the bonus amount
    Terry: What bonus amount?
    Brian: After that wagering is done, anything on the balance can be withdrawn
    Terry: What bonus?
    Brian: All deposits come with a deposit bonus
    Terry: Even if I don't want the bonus?
    Brian: You still get the bonus
    Terry: Why would I be forced to take a bonus?
    Terry: lol
    Terry: How much is the bonus?
    Brian: Even if you don't get the bonus, you still have to cover the wagering
    Brian: The first deposit bonus is 222% (currently)
    Terry: So if I don't take the bonus I have to wager 12x my deposit before I withdraw?
    Brian: You still have to cover all the wagering requirements, even if you dont take the bonus
    Terry: Including the bonus?
    Terry: That I didn't take?
    Brian: Exactly

    So is Brian out to lunch?
     
  24. Aug 22, 2010
  25. weplant

    weplant Meister Member

    Occupation:
    own nursery
    Location:
    napa, ca
    :D
    I think Brian is out to lunch and dinner:D
    Honestly I deposit there all the time..Once in awhile I take a bonus...I have never had to meet any WR on non bonuses...I am going to log in now and see if Ricky is available and find out what is going on...I am not sure if he is there on Sundays...But I will let you know...
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Aug 23, 2010
  27. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    :lolup:

    They still are doing it?

    Here's the thread from feb 2008 about "must take bonus":

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...atter-no-longer-wanted-needed.html#post219540

    The thread from July 2008 about advantage play = fraud:

    http://www.casinomeister.com/past_issues/winward_casino.php

    And according to that thread they were on probation 22 jan 2010!

    Maybe they belong in the not recommended section again?
     
  28. Aug 23, 2010
  29. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    Sounds like they are pulling the same garbage they have pulled in the past. And, if they still have the same game platform they use to have, they are a junk casino anyway. :mad:

    There are still many good and honest casinos for everyone so they should not have to deal with Winward and their rogue behavior.
     
  30. Aug 23, 2010
  31. voltage1

    voltage1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    GA
    :lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
    Brian was on the bridge when it collapsed....cuz now he's all wet
     
  32. Aug 23, 2010
  33. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Personally I think I wasn't supposed to win anything with that ND bonus. So now that I want to cash out they want to turn it into a deposit bonus with a WR in a second attempt to get me to lose it.
     
  34. Aug 23, 2010
  35. weplant

    weplant Meister Member

    Occupation:
    own nursery
    Location:
    napa, ca
    Ricky was not in today..Will be in tomorrow...
    I made a 50.00 deposit (no bonus) and played for a bit and just did a withdrawl of 200.00 , no WR required...
     
  36. Aug 23, 2010
  37. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Ask him to come here and explain why I was told I require a deposit bonus during my live chat and via email.
     
  38. Aug 23, 2010
  39. weplant

    weplant Meister Member

    Occupation:
    own nursery
    Location:
    napa, ca
    I will see what I can find out for you;)
     
    1 person likes this.

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