Rogue?

[vinylweatherman]

I'm sorry for the delay with my answer as I'm traveling at the moment.

Thanks Skiny for the message you sent me to join this thread, and thanks to weplant, maphesto for the kind words and assistant much appreciated.

However, I must say Skiny I was a bit confused you send me a message "join the thread" rather than "I need your assistance with this x issue" usually when someone truly needs help or want an issue to be solved he does it differently, that is why I am a bit confused as to what was your purpose of this thread in the first place, but there are my answers to clear some misunderstandings here.

1. Free ND money- You mentioned you didn't read the T&C that is wrong and you should, it clearly say free money can be withdrawn to Neteller only, thus, if you dont have or can use Neteller you cannot withdraw the money made of the free ND money.

2. Deposit Bonus- You do not have to take bonus for deposit if you dont want to but you were talking about free ND bonus, an I wrong? perhaps that was the reason the agent gave you that answer, but will check again with his manager just in case.

3. we dont only use TopGame we also use Parlay, we have two versions for WinwardCasino the download and non download (instant play) each use a different software provider.

4. we are not on the Rogue list cause we are improving each time and I am working very closed to Casinomeister to solve any issue before it even get to be posted, I think this is how it should be, and this is how you solve issues and become a better site.

5. last but not least and Very important, we have no relation to Rich Casino!!! maphesto you mentioned that on your post, (I think I explained to you before though) we helped them when they started and we also helped TopGame as we were one of their first licensee they used our site as a template creating other client sites (unfortunately from time to time I still find Winwardcasino info such as our phone number when they open a new casino client) but WinwardCasino dont own Rich Casino.

Best Regards,
Malci

Affiliate Manager
Revenue Giants.com

You have dodged the issue surrounding that live chat example. This was CLEARLY about a DEPOSIT bonus, and your rep CLEARLY stated this was COMPULSORY, and even if not claimed, the WR had to be completed as though it were. This is the reason you are considered rogue - FORCING players to take a bonus.

The ND chip only being withdrawable to Neteller is WEIRD. There is no logical reason for this other than you being "in bed" with Neteller, and using this to promote Neteller to your players. Unfortunately, not everybody is even ALLOWED a Neteller account, including the LARGEST market of all, the USA. This looks like a back-door way to severely limit the number of players who get a "fair crack" at winning from the ND chip. If they can never withdraw, then advertising it as a ND free chip with the possibilty of winning is misleading.
Other businesses use similar tactics, making an offer of something for free, but making it virtually impossible to actually get it. The many "cashback" deals here in the UK were once run like this. Buy an item, and get ALL your money back in 5 or 10 years (subject to jumping through numerous hoops, each designed to prevent you from succeeding). Many people were ripped off by this, and in the end our Trading Standards shut them down, and this type of scheme is now ILLEGAL TO OPERATE.
Since you operate your ND offer in a similar manner, players from the largest market of all (USA and Canada) will think you set out to screw them over with an offer with terms they could never actually comply with. They will thus form the opinion that you are rogue.

Being associated with TopGame has made things worse, and you have seen how where they continue to use YOUR business information for new portals that have NOTHING to do with you. This makes players think you are operating "secret sister" casinos, something that rogue groups like Virtual have been doing for a while.

When you were Parlay, I tried you out, and there were a number of traits that lead me to believe you were at the very least "dodgy". It took me a YEAR to get paid the remaining balance in my account once I had decided to stop playing there, and ALL my emails were ignored for that entire time, and I could not log in to use messaging because my account had been locked out for inactivity. Eventually, someone in the forum had an "insider contact", which was the ONLY way I was able to get the balance out.
Ignoring all email communications, and further shutting down ALL alternatives to email such as internal messaging (which cannot be accessed from a locked account), whilst money is still owed to a player is yet ANOTHER tactic that makes you look rogue.

The fact is that this thread demonstrates that you are STILL operating some of these rogue tactics, such as adding a WR to a deposit WITHOUT a bonus as a form of punishment for players who wish to avoid withdrawal problems by not taking a bonus.

 

[weplant]

You have dodged the issue surrounding that live chat example. This was CLEARLY about a DEPOSIT bonus, and your rep CLEARLY stated this was COMPULSORY, and even if not claimed, the WR had to be completed as though it were. This is the reason you are considered rogue - FORCING players to take a bonus.

The ND chip only being withdrawable to Neteller is WEIRD. There is no logical reason for this other than you being "in bed" with Neteller, and using this to promote Neteller to your players. Unfortunately, not everybody is even ALLOWED a Neteller account, including the LARGEST market of all, the USA. This looks like a back-door way to severely limit the number of players who get a "fair crack" at winning from the ND chip. If they can never withdraw, then advertising it as a ND free chip with the possibilty of winning is misleading.
Other businesses use similar tactics, making an offer of something for free, but making it virtually impossible to actually get it. The many "cashback" deals here in the UK were once run like this. Buy an item, and get ALL your money back in 5 or 10 years (subject to jumping through numerous hoops, each designed to prevent you from succeeding). Many people were ripped off by this, and in the end our Trading Standards shut them down, and this type of scheme is now ILLEGAL TO OPERATE.
Since you operate your ND offer in a similar manner, players from the largest market of all (USA and Canada) will think you set out to screw them over with an offer with terms they could never actually comply with. They will thus form the opinion that you are rogue.

Being associated with TopGame has made things worse, and you have seen how where they continue to use YOUR business information for new portals that have NOTHING to do with you. This makes players think you are operating "secret sister" casinos, something that rogue groups like Virtual have been doing for a while.

When you were Parlay, I tried you out, and there were a number of traits that lead me to believe you were at the very least "dodgy". It took me a YEAR to get paid the remaining balance in my account once I had decided to stop playing there, and ALL my emails were ignored for that entire time, and I could not log in to use messaging because my account had been locked out for inactivity. Eventually, someone in the forum had an "insider contact", which was the ONLY way I was able to get the balance out.
Ignoring all email communications, and further shutting down ALL alternatives to email such as internal messaging (which cannot be accessed from a locked account), whilst money is still owed to a player is yet ANOTHER tactic that makes you look rogue.

The fact is that this thread demonstrates that you are STILL operating some of these rogue tactics, such as adding a WR to a deposit WITHOUT a bonus as a form of punishment for players who wish to avoid withdrawal problems by not taking a bonus.

I feel like we are not talking about the same Winward Casino...I cannot comment on ND bonus, because I have never taken one...When I first started playing at Winward, the rep, Ricky, told me to make sure I read the T&C's and that I understood their requirements and how their withdrawl process works..

I have played there with and without bonus...Their WR is 12x's and the bonus is cashable (very fair, in the light of other casinos)...For the most part I play without bonus...There is absolutely no WR and never has been for playing without a bonus..When you make your first few deposits, they may offer a automatic welcome bonus, just live chat that you do no want it and they remove it immediately..No problem...

The withdrawl procedure can take a bit of time for your first withdrawl..However, I have made a couple of withdrawls since my first and they run smoothly and quickly..No it is not 20 minutes like 3dice, but in a reasonable amount of time...

I am not sure what happened with the original post with their ND bonus..However, if in the T&C it states that you can only withdrawl with neteller, then I guess that is how it is..

I deposit and withdrawl with QT with no problems...

Again, I cannot comment on ND bonus as I have never taken one there..But, I know reading their (and any c asino's) T&C's is very important.

 

[MissMD]

WinwardCasino

I agree with weplant and I appreciate you take the time to share your experience here, :notworthy I also havent got many issues reported to me as I used to before, in fact on the contrary I got many good feedback that things are going on the right direction.

vinylweatherman, The free bonus withdrawal is not misleading it is written very clearly and not hidden in anyway, anyone that reads it and from a location that NETeller don't operates knows that very well, so you have the option not to use it, in fact I am going to ask Winward if they can add a clause there "You may request the option not to receive any Bonuses" (just in a better English ;-) ) you think that can help?

re the live chat as I said, I know there is an option to disable your Bonus, as I helped a player that asked about it the other day and Ricky the casino host fixed it for him, so I dont know why Brian said what he said I emailed his manager that chat I'll wait to hear from her.

and, WinwardCasino still use Parlay version as well as TopGame, in fact there is a rumor they are going to add a third software soon.. very exciting :yahoo:

Also, vinylweatherman how can I control that if they use our info on their portals? you know how many affiliates copy our content or each others content to save time when they start their website there is nothing I can do besides always writing to them to tell them it needs to be removed and that it is misleading, to their defense they do remove it quite quickly.

And I dont think by helping other groups you become their sister sites, this industry is very small we all know each other and I personally help several bingo and casino programs as well as affiliate programs, I help them and I know when I will need they will help me as well, for example, did you know that many casinos share black list of players? it could never have worked if we weren't helping each other, that helps avoid fraudulent players entering the website, I also personally share black list of fraudulent affiliates and alert my competitors if I was "hit" by a media, advertiser or an affiliate that tried to abuse my program, and they do the same.

pls let me know re my suggestion if I shall ask them to add that clause or something else? if you think that can help.

Thanks, Malci
Revenue Giants.com

p.s excuse my grammar it is 3am here and I'm having a very bad JetLeg flying over 30 hours in the last week or so

 

[skiny]

What I do know is I got a completely different version of the rules from your CSW named Brian and telling a client that he MUST take a bonus on his deposit and if he doesn't he STILL has to clear the WR on the bonus and the deposit is a rather difficult thing to make a mistake on. No CSW should be that far out to lunch and for that very reason I knew I was not going to come back and deposit under these circumstances simply because your casino refused to allow any method of withdrawal on your ND bonus except one that all Canadians can't use.

That's why I came back and dumped my remaining balance and that's why I will not be back to try again.

I'd still love to hear any valid reason that I should be able to withdraw to Neteller but not Moneybookers under any circumstances. The fact that I'm supposed to win something on a ND bonus and then clear the WR on that bonus and then make a deposit and then clear the WR on that bonus and the deposit and then be allowed to withdraw the money to Moneybookers that I wasn't allowed to withdraw to Moneybookers before jumping through 3 dozen hoops is at the very least suspicious to me.

As I said, I didn't bother with the Terms and conditions before I started because I've never had a problem with the terms and conditions on any ND in my life regardless of what they are but then I've never heard of a ND bonus offered to an entire country that has no way to claim it without making a deposit and then claiming a second deposit bonus.

Keep your bonus and keep your games. I'll play where the rules make sense.