Rogue casinos operating under 365/JAZ?

[iia2024]

Hello,

What does Gaming Curacao do against rogue online casinos that are operating under their license?
Does someone know, or has experience?

I have been scammed, reported it to Gaming Curacao. Will they do something about it, so that I will still get my funds?

Your experiences would be appreciated.


See Related:
Casinomeister's official opinion on Gale & Martin Casino

 

[justdoit]

Many casinos use JAZ but they not scam, and is some scam casinos they use JAZ

​

 

[hubbadubbadingdong]

Define “Scam” …… you lost your deposit ?

 

[iia2024]

Define “Scam” …… you lost your deposit ?

Long story short, just after a big win of 10k on 23 July, there were suddenly technical problems with the withdrawals. They processed 2 withdrawals of 500 euros for me to MasterCard, but they have never been received. I did reported that. It seemed, that there were technical problems with withdrawals (they called it ''technical work needs to be done, work is on the way'').

Asked for another withdrawal method, and to receive still the 2 missing withdrawals, took 7 working days for a response (to see if I can use another withdrawal method, they firstly said I could... then suddenly they said I need to wait 7 working days), but never got feedback on that.

Then all the payments got checked by security service (to see where the missing withdrawals are?), then they said that the technical problem was still not fixed, not any indication when it would be fixed. Then they said it would be in August, then they said after the weekend. They promised me on the live chat, that I would receive all funds, they promised that every day... also when following up with the relevant department. Was now 9 August, asked again to see if the problems were finally fixed; suddenly they closed my account and blocked me from the live chat.
Connected to a VPN, to still be able to reach the live chat since they have blocked me from the live chat. They blocked me directly again, and again, and again, and again. Then they said ''fraudulent actions on my part'', no more information. But I could appeal by email. Blocked again. Did sent a email, but no reply. They did also not reply on emails when the account was still opened.

They are now accusing me of ''fraudulent actions on my part''. Account was already fully verified, have already received some withdrawals before the big win.
The ''fraudulent actions on my part'' excuse came up, when I did won an amazing max win on Gates of Olympus.

They just don't want to pay, do you think Gaming Curacao can help me to receive the account balance?
We are talking here about 11,500.00 euros. They closed my account with 10,500.00 euros in it, and two missing withdrawals of 500 euros each. Just stolen, not played with any bonus funds at the moment of making the big win. Only ''real money'' balance.
I do call this rogue.

 

[iia2024]

Btw; Gaming Curacao is on it. Let's see how this will end.
The online casino that has scammed me is quite new btw.

 

[maxd]

What does Gaming Curacao do against rogue online casinos that are operating under their license?
Does someone know, or has experience?

Traditionally 365 licensees pretty much operated in total darkness: no response to players or anyone else for that matter. AFAIK there are not a huge number of casinos involved but the black-hole silence of the few there were was not something that inspired confidence. In all fairness some 365 licesees were excellent, still are, but the 365 license guaranteed nothing. Basically it came down to the management people behind the casino.

Supposedly Curacao Master Licensors -- 365, 1668, 5536 and 8048 -- are all going through a bit of a house-cleaning and there have been some signs of that including but not limited to a willingness to receive and process player complaints.

Which casino are you talking about? That could make all the difference.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Forum Co-Moderator, Casinomeister.com

 

[justdoit]

Long story short, just after a big win of 10k on 23 July, there were suddenly technical problems with the withdrawals. They processed 2 withdrawals of 500 euros for me to MasterCard, but they have never been received. I did reported that. It seemed, that there were technical problems with withdrawals (they called it ''technical work needs to be done, work is on the way'').

Asked for another withdrawal method, and to receive still the 2 missing withdrawals, took 7 working days for a response (to see if I can use another withdrawal method, they firstly said I could... then suddenly they said I need to wait 7 working days), but never got feedback on that.

Then all the payments got checked by security service (to see where the missing withdrawals are?), then they said that the technical problem was still not fixed, not any indication when it would be fixed. Then they said it would be in August, then they said after the weekend. They promised me on the live chat, that I would receive all funds, they promised that every day... also when following up with the relevant department. Was now 9 August, asked again to see if the problems were finally fixed; suddenly they closed my account and blocked me from the live chat.
Connected to a VPN, to still be able to reach the live chat since they have blocked me from the live chat. They blocked me directly again, and again, and again, and again. Then they said ''fraudulent actions on my part'', no more information. But I could appeal by email. Blocked again. Did sent a email, but no reply. They did also not reply on emails when the account was still opened.

They are now accusing me of ''fraudulent actions on my part''. Account was already fully verified, have already received some withdrawals before the big win.
The ''fraudulent actions on my part'' excuse came up, when I did won an amazing max win on Gates of Olympus.

They just don't want to pay, do you think Gaming Curacao can help me to receive the account balance?
We are talking here about 11,500.00 euros. They closed my account with 10,500.00 euros in it, and two missing withdrawals of 500 euros each. Just stolen, not played with any bonus funds at the moment of making the big win. Only ''real money'' balance.
I do call this rogue.

way will you make deposit on crypto casino with your bank card? 99% of crypto casinos bank withdraw is very slow 2-3 weeks, when you ask for crypto withdraw takes 5-10mins

 

[iia2024]

Traditionally 365 licensees pretty much operated in total darkness: no response to players or anyone else for that matter. AFAIK there are not a huge number of casinos involved but the black-hole silence of the few there were was not something that inspired confidence. In all fairness some 365 licesees were excellent, still are, but the 365 license guaranteed nothing. Basically it came down to the management people behind the casino.

Supposedly Curacao Master Licensors -- 365, 1668, 5536 and 8048 -- are all going through a bit of a house-cleaning and there have been some signs of that including but not limited to a willingness to receive and process player complaints.

Which casino are you talking about? That could make all the difference.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Forum Co-Moderator, Casinomeister.com

It does go about Avo Casino, which is operated by Fintech Szofver N.V., it seems quite a new online casino.
Fintech Szofver N.V. is also behind Taygeta Casino and Zigbi Casino.

But they are blatantly scamming their players who do win a huge amount, they just close the account and block you from the live chat. Furthermore they ignore you everywhere. Taygeta Casino does say to be not related to Avo Casino, while they are operating under the same license. They even told me that they have nothing to do with the casino and that they have perhaps being copied (??) and that they have nothing to do with Avo Casino where I have being ''deceived'' as they say, but the same people are on the live chat at both casinos. They are definitely related to each other. I have all evidence.

I have filed a complaint at a complaints dispute platform, no response from the casino.

They owe me a lot of money, but they don't want to pay me.
I have contacted the master license, let's see how this will end.

This is very rogue, and I do believe that their license needs to be suspended if the casino does still not want to pay the account balance or wanting to act fairly.
The casino just decide at their own discretion to close accounts, and block people from the live chat and to steal their funds.
Only because you won too much on a slot, which they don't like.
Note: the account was already fully verified, and received withdrawals earlier. Until I won big, all the excuses came up.

The funds has still not being received, nor did I receive any reply from the casino.
I did only hear a lot of excuses why there is a delay (just after big win). And at the end, after dragging the withdrawals for at least two weeks. And after they have promised that the technical work would be done that particular week... so I could withdraw my funds, they have just closed my account and blocked me from the live chat. ''fraudulent actions on my part'' is their excuse, but I can appeal according to them. Ehhhmmm, if there are really fraudulent actions on my part. Why do I then can appeal the decision? They firstly promised me in the delay time that I will receive everything. And that I can expect all funds. And when I did really not touched the funds while delaying, their fraud excuse came up. But I could appeal, I have appealed longer than a week ago. Zero replies. There is of course no fraud.

I have even proposed them to settle the case for 10,500.00 euros, which was the balance in the account at closure. No reply.
They owe me 11,500.00 euros, which is including two processed, but never received withdrawals. But I proposed them to settle this at 10,500.00 euros, which is the real money balance in the account at closure.
What do you think? 0 replies, when they see it's me on the live chat, they do directly block me.

Will they ever pay me?

 

[dunover]

It does go about Avo Casino, which is operated by Fintech Szofver N.V., it seems quite a new online casino.
Fintech Szofver N.V. is also behind Taygeta Casino and Zigbi Casino.

But they are blatantly scamming their players who do win a huge amount, they just close the account and block you from the live chat. Furthermore they ignore you everywhere. Taygeta Casino does say to be not related to Avo Casino, while they are operating under the same license. They even told me that they have nothing to do with the casino and that they have perhaps being copied (??) and that they have nothing to do with Avo Casino where I have being ''deceived'' as they say, but the same people are on the live chat at both casinos. They are definitely related to each other. I have all evidence.

I have filed a complaint at a complaints dispute platform, no response from the casino.

They owe me a lot of money, but they don't want to pay me.
I have contacted the master license, let's see how this will end.

This is very rogue, and I do believe that their license needs to be suspended if the casino does still not want to pay the account balance or wanting to act fairly.
The casino just decide at their own discretion to close accounts, and block people from the live chat and to steal their funds.
Only because you won too much on a slot, which they don't like.
Note: the account was already fully verified, and received withdrawals earlier. Until I won big, all the excuses came up.

The funds has still not being received, nor did I receive any reply from the casino.
I did only hear a lot of excuses why there is a delay (just after big win). And at the end, after dragging the withdrawals for at least two weeks. And after they have promised that the technical work would be done that particular week... so I could withdraw my funds, they have just closed my account and blocked me from the live chat. ''fraudulent actions on my part'' is their excuse, but I can appeal according to them. Ehhhmmm, if there are really fraudulent actions on my part. Why do I then can appeal the decision? They firstly promised me in the delay time that I will receive everything. And that I can expect all funds. And when I did really not touched the funds while delaying, their fraud excuse came up. But I could appeal, I have appealed longer than a week ago. Zero replies. There is of course no fraud.

I have even proposed them to settle the case for 10,500.00 euros, which was the balance in the account at closure. No reply.
They owe me 11,500.00 euros, which is including two processed, but never received withdrawals. But I proposed them to settle this at 10,500.00 euros, which is the real money balance in the account at closure.
What do you think? 0 replies, when they see it's me on the live chat, they do directly block me.

Will they ever pay me?

Sadly, no. I refer you to this thread - take a read. The modus operandi for these casinos is pretty generic, the fraud the same. You are on the 'mini list of bollocks' right now (a string of 'plausible' excuses.) Soon, you will be on 8&9 on the list, possibly 10.

Ares Casino (arescasino.com) is BAD news for players - Casinomeister Forum

Read this post and the rest of the thread, it'll give you more understanding of where you are right now without lots of unnecessary typing.

 

[iia2024]

Sadly, no. I refer you to this thread - take a read. The modus operandi for these casinos is pretty generic, the fraud the same. You are on the 'mini list of bollocks' right now (a string of 'plausible' excuses.) Soon, you will be on 8&9 on the list, possibly 10.

Ares Casino (arescasino.com) is BAD news for players - Casinomeister Forum

Read this post and the rest of the thread, it'll give you more understanding of where you are right now without lots of unnecessary typing.

The difference with arescasino.com is that they are not licensed, Avo Casino is licensed by Gaming Curacao.

 

[dunover]

The difference with arescasino.com is that they are not licensed, Avo Casino is licensed by Gaming Curacao.

No real difference. A Curacao 'license' effectively permits a casino to do what they like. It's meaningless, worthless and is just window dressing for the scammers. There is no proper, effective infrastructure or checks on conduct of a licensee. It's a banana republic 'license' purchased by sliding a paper form containing a few greenbacks and a bottle of firewater to the fat geezer in a tropical suit with cigar ash tumbling down it, sitting under a ricketty ceiling fan. It's as useful for player protection as a wet toilet roll is in the bathroom. This is why it's known on here as a cup-o-cocoa license as it's worth about the same.

 

[iia2024]

No real difference. A Curacao 'license' effectively permits a casino to do what they like. It's meaningless, worthless and is just window dressing for the scammers. There is no proper, effective infrastructure or checks on conduct of a licensee. It's a banana republic 'license' purchased by sliding a paper form containing a few greenbacks and a bottle of firewater to the fat geezer in a tropical suit with cigar ash tumbling down it, sitting under a ricketty ceiling fan. It's as useful for player protection as a wet toilet roll is in the bathroom. This is why it's known on here as a cup-o-cocoa license as it's worth about the same.

So you think Gaming Curacao will do probably nothing about this? According to Casinomeister 365/JAZ is one of the better licenses at Curacao.
And that they ''Do seem to take action against rogue operators '' according to casinomeister.

 

[dunover]

So you think Gaming Curacao will do probably nothing about this? According to Casinomeister 365/JAZ is one of the better licenses at Curacao.
And that they ''Do seem to take action against rogue operators '' according to casinomeister.

SEEM to. I've yet to see them force a casino to pay a player, force them to submit info to criminal investigations, seize funds to pay players, make declarations regarding operator conduct around payments. Maybe @maxd knows better. In Curacao, casinos licensing is mainly a vehicle for making money from anyone who pays for a sub-license and little or none of it is dedicated to providing proper regulatory infrastructure as we know it. Yes, occasionally they make a few limp statements when the issue of money laundering and scamming is mentioned in the Dutch parliament to settle things down until next time.

Until they acknowledge the huge amount of criminal money laundering and fraud that had already taken place under their 'watch' haha especially under the 1668/JAZ 'license' they will have no credibility and nobody will ever come close to trusting them. The fact they are so pathetic means that the scammers who used the 1668/JAZ license don't even bother with it any more, just have no license or a fake non-existent license number as the outcome for them is the same.

 

[maxd]

TBH I've never had the confidence in the 365/JAZ Master License that Bryan has BUT some of our long-term and very trusted casino friends are 365 sub-licensees, so there's that. In other words -- IMHO -- 365 is more or less like the other Curacao Master Licenses in that they do very little and let the sub-licensee operate as they see fit. 1668/JAZ is something of an exception from the rule in that it seems to have a lot higher percentage of totally shite sub-licensees than the others -- we've dedicated an entire sub-forum to those tales of woe: 1668/JAZ licensee issues - Casinomeister's Forum: Largest Online Casino Community Since 1998 -- but I digress.

@iia2024 , you ask "Will they ever pay me?" Has there been any indication that they will? I'd say it's rather the reverse actually, all signs indicate that they won't. That is likely your answer, sorry to say.

- Max

 

[iia2024]

TBH I've never had the confidence in the 365/JAZ Master License that Bryan has BUT some of our long-term and very trusted casino friends are 365 sub-licensees, so there's that. In other words -- IMHO -- 365 is more or less like the other Curacao Master Licenses in that they do very little and let the sub-licensee operate as they see fit. 1668/JAZ is something of an exception from the rule in that it seems to have a lot higher percentage of totally shite sub-licensees than the others -- we've dedicated an entire sub-forum to those tales of woe: 1668/JAZ licensee issues - Casinomeister's Forum: Largest Online Casino Community Since 1998 -- but I digress.

@iia2024 , you ask "Will they ever pay me?" Has there been any indication that they will? I'd say it's rather the reverse actually, all signs indicate that they won't. That is likely you answer, sorry to say.

- Max

Do you think in case of non payment, will Gaming Curacao revoke their license?
The online casino is acting as an unlicensed casino now. I don't see another option for them to pay, or their license revoked.

But I don't need to assume that, that will be the case?
So, in the end, the operator can do what they want under a Curaçao license? ...

 

[dunover]

Do you think in case of non payment, will Gaming Curacao revoke their license?
The online casino is acting as an unlicensed casino now. I don't see another option for them to pay, or their license revoked.

But I don't need to assume that, that will be the case?
So, in the end, the operator can do what they want under a Curaçao license? ...

No they won't revoke their license. Operators can do pretty much what they like there and your complaint would be passed off as a (albeit manufactured) dispute that the casino should resolve with you. If they started revoking licenses, they'd lose their position as the fraudsters friend and risk future fees-for-nothing that they lovingly collect.

This is where the mini-list of bollocks comes in - if the operator uses plausible delays and excuses, the so-called authority wouldn't have a reason to get involved anyway.

 

[maxd]

So, in the end, the operator can do what they want under a Curaçao license? ...

Generally speaking, yes, and I believe I've said that more than once here already. There have been claims and rumours the Curacao is trying to get the Master License holders to clean up their act but so far (at least) actual results of that are pretty damn scarce. True, the Master License holders have set up complaints departments but again, the actual results of that are very much TBD.

"will Gaming Curacao revoke their license?" Almost certainly not. The only cases I've heard of where a Curacao sub-license was revoked involved pirated games and many player complaints that were brought together as a single case. Even then the current Curacao system would allow the casino people to re-brand and be back in business without significant delay. Roughly a year ago proposed changes to the licensing laws in Curacao were announced but apparently the smart money says those will be tied up for years in the political process and may never see the light of day.

I have no doubt that casino licensing in Curacao is changing and probably for the better. The reality though is that those changes are and will continue to happen at a glacial pace, meaning very Very VERY slowly. We'll all be significantly older and greyer before your question will be a realistic one.

- Max

 

[iia2024]

Generally speaking, yes, and I believe I've said that more than once here already. There have been claims and rumours the Curacao is trying to get the Master License holders to clean up their act but so far (at least) actual results of that are pretty damn scarce. True, the Master License holders have set up complaints departments but again, the actual results of that are very much TBD.

"will Gaming Curacao revoke their license?" Almost certainly not. The only cases I've heard of where a Curacao sub-license was revoked involved pirated games and many player complaints that were brought together as a single case. Even then the current Curacao system would allow the casino people to re-brand and be back in business without significant delay. Roughly a year ago proposed changes to the licensing laws in Curacao were announced but apparently the smart money says those will be tied up for years in the political process and may never see the light of day.

I have no doubt that casino licensing in Curacao is changing and probably for the better. The reality though is that those changes are and will continue to happen at a glacial pace, meaning very Very VERY slowly. We'll all be significantly older and greyer before your question will be a realistic one.

- Max

Let's see how this will end, it seems that Gaming Curacao is on it.

They are at least replying to complaints, I do know from the past, don't know if it was Gaming Curacao, Antillephone, or Cyberluck.
There was a time you got 0 replies, or just one sentence. And that was it, I think that was Antillephone. ''Your complaint is dismissed'', something like that. Ridiculous.

Even the court said, that Master license holders are responsible for the actions of their sub licensee's. One of the responsibilities is that the players are getting paid. They are in breach of that right now, since there is no payment. Just closed the account with an account balance in it, and blocked me from the live chat. ''fraud'' excuse, after the long list of other excuses. And the most frustrating of all, IGNORING YOU COMPLETELY. Too ridiculous for words.

I have experienced this behavior once before, but that was a UNLICENSED online casino. I would think something like that could not happen under a Curacao license, but it can...

And there is for at least now, 0 solutions, and I don't know if Master license holders are able to enforce things. If they would say that they need to pay a player, and the operator is not doing that. Would they just say ''okay''?

That is what I'm questioning myself, are the complaints departments of those Master license holders even able to really force something?
Or is their no willingness to do so, can also be the case.