Rival Casinos Pull Out of Canada

[RobWin]

Rival personnel monitor this forum and it looks as if the outrage being expressed at their original intentions regarding player funds has been instrumental in causing it to be replaced with this later decision:

Furthermore, please be advised that all current Canada-based members will be offered the months of February and March as a time frame in order to withdraw any remaining funds from their account. If you do not withdraw your funds before the stipulated time line then you may email support and they will withdraw the funds for you.

That's a positive move imo. Now let's see at the very least what sort of "suppliers" have been influential enough to put Rival in a position where it feels it must exit what must be a reasonably profitable market and risk upsetting its licensees.

I wouldn't call the T2 Marketing lawsuit against four of this group's Canadian owners "frivolous", btw - having read the Quebec court documents and their documentary proof I think they may well have a solid and well founded case.

So Jet, what was the bottom line for T2 initiating this lawsuit ? Was it simply based on the fact that T2 claims Rival breached a contract agreement with them for their providing of "Marketing Services" to Rival ??

If that is the basis for Rival to decide to totally pull out of the Canadian market then the lawsuit must be also based on some other sort of dealings too IMO, seems like a quick and rash decision on Rivals part to totally leave an entire country simply because of an incident of a contract breach...

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I wouldn't call the T2 Marketing lawsuit against four of this group's Canadian owners "frivolous", btw - having read the Quebec court documents and their documentary proof I think they may well have a solid and well founded case.

I do not believe I did but perhaps, oops, I was not clear. The exact words read:

perhaps a frivilous civil litigation lawsuit

In fact the excerpt below (in blue) from your article specifically got my attention.

As recently as a week before your article I had posted the following:

"With the above said, there are issues (past and present) more specific to Rivals I assume that may be problematic. I continue to work with John when required to resolve all in good faith......Often imo only, it is difficult to get a sense of exactly how much independence each casino has."

Thus, your article immediately caught my attention and in fact it was quite ironic to me, if for no other reason, I found your article just after a brief PM exchange with CM pursuant to a Rival's issue. I would forward your article thereafter.

Yet, as it currently stands Jet, the quote from your article below that I am actually referencing in my prior post(s) appears to be nothing more than an allegation (w/o having seen the pleadings) in a civil litigation case but I will read your article again to be sure irc. But it is certainly interesting!!

""The plaintiff therefore argues: "Accordingly, all of the corporations are, in reality, alter egos of the individual defendants in order to disguise the individual defendants' ownership of the casinos and de facto operation and management thereof from the Ottawa Premises.""

FTR, I chose to close my last Rival's account on my own accord within the last 10 days or so. My total Rival's wagers were in the mid 8 figures, point being I somewhat know their product, imo!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

If that is the basis for Rival to decide to totally pull out of the Canadian market then the lawsuit must be also based on some other sort of dealings too IMO, seems like a quick and rash decision on Rivals part to totally leave an entire country simply because of an incident of a contract breach...

Agreed, Rob..................A total guess on my part, It could be Rivals et al may leave Canada a la a RTG and Atlanta. Of course that is apples and oranges in and of itself.........UIGEA may play a role........I have read (and will try to find) a legal opinion on the risk Canadian operators et al per se take. The general consensus was prolly none but Canada was the only country deemed a possibility with the real risk of course being entering the US.

Again a stupid wild guess. I could make at least a dozen more and prolly would be wrong on all so all relax.

Regardless, I am clueless to the supplier spiel mentioned!!

 

[jetset]

I'm on the road at present and do not have the Quebec document on my laptop - that can be accessed either via the court (the references are in the news piece) or I can send you a copy once I am back at base, Robwin.

This is a pretty substantive, detailed and voluminous document, but of course until the court rules or there is a settlement it remains an allegation, albeit a strongly documented one involving a series of questionable acts related to a breach of contract.

My speculation that it may be part of the decision for Rival to depart the Canadian market is based on our own experience, supported by others who have since contacted us, of the desire of Rival to keep the names of the alleged Canadian owners out of the media.

Not wishing to cause those individuals undue stress, we decided not to include the names in our report, although they are there for all to see in the Quebec court documents.

But who knows? I find the line that "Canadian suppliers" influenced the Rival decision equally unlikely, but it's all speculation right now.

 

[jenn1381]

While the emails continue to pour in from Rivals with the news, they all looked the same with a few months to finish up any business needed. Except Slotocash. This is what I received from them this morning:

Entitled "Important Account Closure"

Dear Jennifer

Due to a recent decision made by our software provider "Rival Powered Gaming", it has become necessary for us to close the casino accounts of all Canadian residents. If you have a balance on your account we kindly request that you login and withdraw the funds within the next 5 days. The account will then be closed permanently.

We apologies for any inconvenience caused.


Wow, 5 DAYS. Thanks guys. I hope to hell no one has high wagering requirements left at Slotocash. This whole situation is just getting ridiculous, I strong believe that Canadians are owed an explanation, AND a decent time frame to make wagering requirements. A month was pushing it, 5 days is downright criminal.

 

[Jasminebed]

Slotocash pulling out too

I contacted Slotocash by livechat last night...

Budd: Welcome to Sloto'Cash Casino Live Chat. How may I help you?
you: Hi. jxxxx, jxxx@xxxxx.ca
you: Hi. Is slotocash pulling out of the canadian market?
you: I've read that Rival is
Budd: Not to my knowledge, no.
you: Well, I greatly enjoy playing here at slotocash, so I hope not
you: but I have received an email from another Rival, and it is all over the forums
you: not slotocash specifically tho
you: so I hope you keep us
Budd: Well slotocash has it's own management and it's own way of doing business.
you: Thank you Budd, always good to talk with you
Budd: You are very welcome
you: Have a good night
Budd: Thank you for using Sloto'Cash Casino Live Support. Should you have any future questions, please contact us again.

This morning I received the following email

Due to a recent decision made by our software provider "Rival Powered Gaming", it has become necessary for us to close the casino accounts of all Canadian residents. If you have a balance on your account we kindly request that you login and withdraw the funds within the next 5 days. The account will then be closed permanently.

We apologies for any inconvenience caused.​

FIVE DAYS This is an appalling lack of notice.

 

[Mousey]

I hope players will still be able to get their money out after the five days (!?!) by contacting casinos support.

Pity the poor players on vacation or traveling or otherwise away from their email & computer for a few days. Sheesh.

What a mess.

 

[AussieDave]

Does anyone have a complete list of who the casinos are that will be pulling out of Canada? This is an outrage and insult to our friends north of the U.S imo.............laurie

Beginning February 1st, 2009, Canadian players will not be allowed to
register new accounts with any Rival powered casino. Existing Canadian
players will not be permitted to deposit in the casino from this point on, and will be ineligible for any bonuses.

Cheers
T

 

[AussieDave]

I hope players will still be able to get their money out after the five days (!?!) by contacting casinos support.

February 28, 2009 at midnight EST will see all existing Canadian player accounts suspended indefinitely. Players have been urged to use the month of February to complete any wagering on active promotions and withdraw funds from their accounts. Any funds left in their account after February 28th, 2009 will not be cashable and the player will not be allowed to login to their account.

The above was extracted from the mailer I received as an Affiliate yesterday.

However with the update posted by Jasminebed it looks like Rival don't give a flying ducks #ss about their Canadian players. With only 4 to 5 days grace to pull players money from accounts before being locked/closed is appalling.

Not mention the fact that they will NOT or have any intention of sending players their money. If players do not clear their accounts, RIVAL CASINOS intend to keep (cough steal) this money from Canadian players.

This is one of if not the worst deplorable act I've seen from a group of casinos.

For anyone that does play at a Rival casino, it's pretty obvious that RIVAL ultimately pulls the strings. If they are happy to do this to Canadian players, what would they do to others in the position...Some genuine food for thought!

Cheers
T

 

[Mousey]

With all the weirdities lately (MG suddenly not accepting new US players, emails to affiliates indicating that most, if not all MGs, were pulling out of the US entirely -- eventually, etc. And now this Rival mess with them dumping Canadians like a hot potato -- players be damned) ... I'm beginning to wonder if there is some prerequisite that online casino owners must be certifiably loco ....

(To Spear --- this is only my opinion and not a statement of fact. )

 

[classymom]

This is a big mess - I have always been a big fan of Rival but this mass pull out with not much notice is very disturbing.

 

[KasinoKing]

There seems to be some 'Chinese whispers' going on here and some e-mails from some of the Rival casinos seem to be incorrect.

To answer some questions raised above, to the best of my knowledge:-

1) This effects ALL Rival casinos, including:-
Absolute Slots
Club Vegas
Cocoa Casino
DaVinci's Gold
Gold Rock
Irish Luck
Loin Slots
Mayan Fortune
Pantasia
Paradise8
Simon Says
Sloto'Cash
Slots of Fortune
Superior
This is Vegas
Vegas Regal
Vegas Sky

2) This is nothing to do with bonus abuse or anything like that. It's political. I was told by a very reliable source last night that the USA is totally safe and will not be following suit.

3) Players will not be able to deposit from Feb-1st onwards.

4) Players will be able to continue playing normally for the whole of February, giving them plenty of time to finish any outstanding WR's and withdraw all their funds.
(Some casinos are saying it's until the end of March - I don't know yet who is right & who is wrong - but I would expect ALL Rivals to have the same cut-off).

5) What a total bummer!

KK

 

[Kendra-SSC]

Hi Everyone,

I can assure you that all players will be able to withdraw their funds even past the deadline, they will just not be able to login to the casino accounts to do so, they will need to contact support who will then do it for them. At Simon Says we will be emailing all Canadian players that still have a balance to let them know that they should withdraw it and I expect the other Casinos will do the same.

Also, there are ZERO plans to leave the US market.

I understand that our Canadian players are very frustrated by this and rightfully so. However, this decision was up to Rival and not the individual casinos.

Kendra

 

[chuchu59]

Rival has been in the market for some time and I didnt think for a moment that they will not honour their commitments by confiscating legitimate funds/balances. This is not the bone of contention.


The Canadian Government has not announced that it plans to illegalise online gambling so Canadians are owed an explanation as to why they ousted whereas their counterparts in illegal jurisdictions arent. The casinos have to deal with their players so they should press Rival to justify, with appropriate reasons, for their decision. I am sure that many Canucks have been loyal followers of this software during the past 18 months or so and excluding them without telling them why is just a slap in the face. I understand that it would probably be difficult but it has to be done nevertheless. If this relates to a court case, say it although if this were so the decision should have been made after the outcome of the case.

Maybe all Rival casinos should press Rival to make an announcement on the decision with their valid reasons for doing so. The industry is still reeling from MGs decision last year but at least they had a reason for doing so. We need transparency.

 

[soflat]

Just mail all the players a check or money order if they don't withdraw by the deadline. Why wait until they email you?

 

[Jasminebed]

Not mention the fact that they will NOT or have any intention of sending players their money. If players do not clear their accounts, RIVAL CASINOS intend to keep (cough steal) this money from Canadian players.

This is one of if not the worst deplorable act I've seen from a group of casinos.

Slotocash is not Casinomeister accredited, nor does it have a representative on this board. I joined Slotocash because there were few complaints, and my experiences with them personally have been quite good.

Perhaps Trezz's allegation that they intend to "keep (cough steal)" was premature, or perhaps threads like this are bringing attention to the matter.

I've since received an email from Slotocash Support subject lined: URGENT Account Closure Notification (correction)

Due to a recent decision made by our software provider "Rival Powered Gaming", it has become necessary for us to close the casino accounts of all Canadian residents.

After January 31st Canadian players will not be allowed to deposit and claim bonuses anymore. If you have a balance on your account we kindly request that you login and withdraw the funds before February 28th. On February 28th all Canadian accounts will be permanently closed. After this date players will need to contact support for any withdrawal requests.

We apologies for any inconvenience caused.

To show how valued we are, this email comes with the usual link to Join Club Sloto.

To date, there are several other Rivals I belong to that have yet to send me any kind of notification.

I received the following, very polite one from Mayan Fortune last evening:

As of February 1, 2009, casino members originating from Canada, including Canadian IP addresses, will no longer be offered the ability to register new accounts at Mayan Fortune Casino.

Please be advised that all current Canada-based members will be offered the month of February and March as a timeframe in order to withdraw any remaining funds from their account. If you were unable to do so before the deadline, please email support and they will withdraw the funds for you.

I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for your patronage over the past few years. I do hope to one day see you at the tables again given the right circumstances.

If you have any questions at all, please do not hesitate to contact me or our helpful support team at support@mayanfortune.com

Best Regards,

Megan
Manager
Mayan Fortune Casino

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

too bad so sad because I started to like their games and Rival is the only one where I was getting adequate playtime for my money lately.

Do you think its a good idea to deposit now to as many as I could and then take a month or 2 to play it ?? I don't take bonuses every time i deposit, so I am not looking to "abuse" their system just looking to play longer...

 

[Jasminebed]

Just mail all the players a check or money order if they don't withdraw by the deadline. Why wait until they email you?

There will a small percentage of players who will not be aware they need to make a request, or realize it is a very small amount and not be bothered. We read posts about dormant account fees at casinos. Even if the monies are kept in a reserve fund for the players, the casino enjoys the right to use these funds.

Casinos will put forth, with some validity, the argument that it is logistic nightmare to issue cheques for some very small amounts, but I am sure that there are many players who accumate their comps points for a "rainy day", or hundreds of accounts with.

As long as the casinos remain operational, and players have no time limit to contact support, this seems like a reasonable solution.

There are, however several Rival Casinos that have sent me no notification whatsoever as of now.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

There will a small percentage of players who will not be aware they need to make a request, or realize it is a very small amount and not be bothered. We read posts about dormant account fees at casinos. Even if the monies are kept in a reserve fund for the players, the casino enjoys the right to use these funds.

Casinos will put forth, with some validity, the argument that it is logistic nightmare to issue cheques for some very small amounts, but I am sure that there are many players who accumate their comps points for a "rainy day", or hundreds of accounts with.

As long as the casinos remain operational, and players have no time limit to contact support, this seems like a reasonable solution.

There are, however several Rival Casinos that have sent me no notification whatsoever as of now.

FYI, when Crypto pulled the plug on the US within a few days after the 9-30-2006 passage of UIGEA, checks were mailed several weeks thereafter as I had accounts @ Intercasino and Omni by their processor (E-Cash or similar iirc).

There was so much uncertainty initially as to UIGEA, I kept the checks as souvenirs rather than depositing though. Not an issue in the Great White North.

The one thing I always expected with Rivals was the unexpected. I basically did not even have to deal with Support and dealt directly with John for the most part over the last few months. I also had several lengthy conversations with John. I do not question his ethics to this day. When these types of situations arose, I assumed John to be doing one of his (two) jobs and a good company man and/or the messenger. When we disagreed on not the trivial but a handful of really serious and sometimes ethical issues, I always felt for whatever reason (maybe a predictable pattern emerged over time) even as John stood firm and we knocked heads on occasion ,LOL, that I was actually knocking heads with whomever Rivals is but JMO. The plaintiff's allegation relating to ownership and the transparency issue elevated my opinion,fwiw.

I do not believe, based on the Rival's casinos (and who really owns these licensee's per se??, I desire to also get the pleadings or maybe Jet can address in the meantime his opine) that I dealt with that the casino's management are given much string so caveat emptor on what any manager or rep. (CS. or other) states. By no means am I implying an integrity issue at the directly above mentioned as I speculate they may be in the dark and just as shocked as I assume most of us are

 

[AussieDave]

Perhaps Trezz's allegation that they intend to "keep (cough steal)" was premature, or perhaps threads like this are bringing attention to the matter.

Over the past few days I've received multiple emails from separate casino aff managers addressing this Rival issue. The first one to arrive was the one I began this thread with.

Since then I've received ambiguous statements.

I decided last night to not take any further notice of these mailers. Instead opting to contact the source. Whether I receive a response is yet to be known.

However at this time, I'll retract any and all assumptions that I've based on misinformation. I'll await the facts from now on and then post my opinions on these.


Cheers
T

 

[AussieDave]

Straight From the Horses Mouth! - Rival Statement

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Statement Regarding The Move To No Longer Accept Canadian Members
January 25, 2009

Rival Gaming, a leader in web-based gaming software licensing, announces that it will require that its licensees take steps to cease the acceptance of players from Canada as of February 1, 2009. Rival's gaming software includes functionality that enables operators to effectively manage requests to block specific jurisdictions.

Rival has made this decision in order to protect its ability to continue offering a high quality and innovative product for use by operators and their members.

Rival's licensees will notify any existing Canadian account holders that they have until March 31, 2009 to withdraw their balances through any methods available to them. After this date, account holders will need to contact the casino operator via normal customer support channels in order to receive their funds as they will no longer be able to login to their account.

Rival Gaming remains committed to its operators and their players, and continues to assert itself among the top international gaming software providers.

 

[jetset]

Before I criticise this statement, thank you Trezz for posting same and keeping us up to speed with the latest official word from Rival.

Regarding the statement itself - it really appears to me to be a string of words put together that tells us absolutely nothing - certainly nothing Rival's licensees have not already communicated.

It does appear, however, that they are moving away from that BS nonsense earlier that their "suppliers" had prompted their unilateral Canadian ban.

One day the truth will come out, I'm sure....but that's not happening right now I'm afraid.

 

[jenn1381]

Lets just add insult to injury, shall we? Apparently, that's what Pantasia had in mind when they sent me this:

Hi Jennifer

I was reviewing your account and noticed you haven't played lately. Is there anything I can do for you?

If there is anything I can do to make your Pantasia experience better, please let me know. I am your casino host and my main priority is your satisfaction with Pantasia

Sincerely,

Rachel,
casino host and VIP Manager
Pantasia


WTF????

 

[heatherad]

I think Rivals have cut off their nose to spite their face

 

[me_and_ed]

Regardless of whether I agree with the contraction I am sorry to see them go. Julia and Jason (Paradise8) have been great, good people and very generous, I must say I am truly disappointed.