[RESOLVED] 3dice customer service issues

[markjacob]

Let me preface this by saying that I have had a long standing issue with 3Dice regarding finance.

I had received an E-mail over a month ago asking me not to deposit and withdraw so much as my transaction cost was 500.00 since October. You see I play, win 30 to 40 percent of my deposit then withdraw. I would somtimes depsoit 3 times a week. I am also on the better side of the variance right now, so of course I am "up". Alot. To me anyways.

They asked to hold my money in my account until the next time I play to hold down transactions costs, in my book, it read were hoping you play your money back and LOSE!!!

Bob in finance also stated that he would set up a new feature called the safe for me, so if I didn't want to have a balance after each session I could park my money there instead of withdrawing, and would still keep my limit of 700.00 a week in tack. Great, just another way to keep my money in the casino without withdrawing.

I used it the 1st night, and of course there were software issues. After spending half the night with live chat, I had become disgusted and cashed out my remaining money.

I have now tried to re-open my account with no response for 2 days, guess they don't want my business.

The reason I am telling you all of this, is there are 2 sides to this casino. The one that loves the depositors who lose, and the one that ignores those who have had only 3 losing sessions since october.

Enzo, your casino has busted the silver lining that alot of have had for you and your casino.

 

[babs7262]

I understand where you coming from MarkJacob, I do the same thing. I think what they mean is (because I do this) when you do a bunch of small cashouts instead of waiting till it gets bigger, it costs more money to keep doing it. Ive been told the same thing before because I do a bunch of $50 ones . I think the problem is (well they solved it now with parking) that 3 dice approve the requests so fast there is no time to alter it.....ie...at an RTG, I w/d everytime I get to $50 with $20 left over (actually $70 ) and everytime I win another $50, I cancel my w/d request and immediatley add the new $50 to make it a $100 and so on BUT 3 dice is too fast lol.

I think parking it will be a great advantage, they really dont have the "maybe theyll cancel and lose it" mentality. I am not defending them, Im just giving a different outlook on the situation. I should show you my w/d requests at Inet over the weekend, I cancelled and added to it atleast 6 times. I really thought I was going to get an email saying "WTF are you doing?" lol

I hope you can sort this out.

 

[markjacob]

Your thoughts and input is always appreciated BAbs.

 

[LaurieJim]

Let me preface this by saying that I have had a long standing issue with 3Dice regarding finance.

I had received an E-mail over a month ago asking me not to deposit and withdraw so much as my transaction cost was 500.00 since October. You see I play, win 30 to 40 percent of my deposit then withdraw. I would somtimes depsoit 3 times a week. I am also on the better side of the variance right now, so of course I am "up". Alot. To me anyways.

They asked to hold my money in my account until the next time I play to hold down transactions costs, in my book, it read were hoping you play your money back and LOSE!!!

Bob in finance also stated that he would set up a new feature called the safe for me, so if I didn't want to have a balance after each session I could park my money there instead of withdrawing, and would still keep my limit of 700.00 a week in tack. Great, just another way to keep my money in the casino without withdrawing.

I used it the 1st night, and of course there were software issues. After spending half the night with live chat, I had become disgusted and cashed out my remaining money.

I have now tried to re-open my account with no response for 2 days, guess they don't want my business.

The reason I am telling you all of this, is there are 2 sides to this casino. The one that loves the depositors who lose, and the one that ignores those who have had only 3 losing sessions since october.

Enzo, your casino has busted the silver lining that alot of have had for you and your casino.

.................i think imo that 3- dice lousy customer service was a horrible thing to say about the staff there as i have found them to be among the best.i have won and i have lost at 3- dice and i still have the upmost respect for 3- dice and staff, Lousy C.S. you say!!! i beg to differ !!!!...laurie

 

[suzecat]

Tried to install 3Dice but no go.....checked the system requirements and found it requires a 3D video card, which my oldie moldy computer does not have. Felt kind of bummed about that. I am sure once my old dinosaur quits on me I will get a new fangled multimedia monster that will work with 3Dice. Let's hope the gambling gods are with me and US is still allowed!

 

[Fleur-De-Lis]

I had no idea that frequent deposit/withdrawal MO could be frowned upon by casinos that's what I usually do: deposit a little, lose it, deposit twice the amount that I lost, recover total deposit if I am lucky, withdraw all, start over. Sometimes several times a day. It never came to my head that it makes any difference to casinos, or they care - as long as I play and do not create any problems.

I signed up with 3D only 3 or 4 days ago, and my transactions 'history' is already more than a page long. Support (I chatted with Ron once, to understand better some banking matters) was beyond praise though!

 

[BingoT]

Live Chat with Anna is thee best person I have ever talked to on that live chat thing.
3D give Anna a Bonus in her check.
Anna

 

[babs7262]

Sorry
Forgot to say something because I was focusing on the issue rather than the title of the thread. I feel the title of this thread is inappropiate and maybe you can rethink that part and ask Max to put a different title like "frequent w/d problems" or something like that because their policy has nothing to do with the high level of customer service they give, really, they are attentive and I have even stated many times that I only cashout about once every 3 months, so Im not saying this because Ive so much off of them.

Just something to reconsider, I think you would get more help and support if the title wasnt so harsh

 

[paul02085]

Seems to me they asked you not to withdraw so much and then worked out a way around it and you withdrew again. If you dont want to do it their way why deposit again?
Whatever your reasons they did not provide you lousy service and its wrong to say that because its not true. 3Dice has the best service i have ever seen and i have played in hundreds of online casinos for 10 years. I hope any new players who read this will also read the dozens of threads discussing what a great casino 3Dice is.

 

[just play]

Tried to install 3Dice but no go.....checked the system requirements and found it requires a 3D video card, which my oldie moldy computer does not have. Felt kind of bummed about that. I am sure once my old dinosaur quits on me I will get a new fangled multimedia monster that will work with 3Dice. Let's hope the gambling gods are with me and US is still allowed!

I have an old moldy computer too...lol...it works fine for me, (I am almost possitive we don't have a 3D video card, unless it was in the computer when we got it like 10 years ago?) except tonight, having some issues logging on and the reels keep spinning (like RTG)

 

[3Dice]

Hi Markajacob,

As Bob tried to explain to you already, the entire situation has nothing at all to do with you winning at 3Dice. (we mentioned that we hoped you would win for a long time to come in one of the initial emails.). We simply found ourselves in a situation where in the long term, all parties involved would be losing (except for the processors). Put differently, other players were paying simply to cover the transaction costs generated on your account.

Instead of closing your account, I decided to see if we could do something that would help the handful of players including yourself that were responsible for these exuberant transaction costs limit those costs and return some balance to the situation. For this, we implemented the 3Dice safe, intended to be a withdraw method without any costs that allows you to get your wins out of your balance, can be protected for reversals and even falls under any applicable deposit limits. The actual withdraw can then be made from the 3Dice safe after you collect some funds in there. (all to make sure, allow me to stress, that this is not about 'losing back winnings' - quite to the contrary.).

You were indeed one of the first to have this option enabled on your account and with it being brand new some things indeed needed to be worked out. I do (and did) apologize for the inconvenience caused by that, and I regret that it lead you to request your account to be closed.

Once an account is closed at 3Dice (especially if by user request), we have a strict procedure to follow for any further activity on the account. The start of this procedure is a 3 day cool-down period, followed by a request for motivation as re-opening an account is only meaningful if there are reasons to believe a successful customer relationship is indeed possible.

In the mean time, the 3Dice safe has proven to be a very viable solution and a great tool to reduce the transaction costs on accounts of regular players. (reducing transaction costs quite directly translates into more comps .. ) - we may even consider enabling the 3Dice safe for all 3Dice accounts.

I regret that you feel the way you do about our c/s, and I hope you understand the need for a cool-down period when re-opening accounts. You should expect to get follow up on your re-open request shortly, and I do hope that together we can come to the conclusion that we both feel a successful future customer relationship is indeed feasible !

Kindest regards,

Enzo

 

[bb28]

Kudos to 3Dice for the kind and considerate reply to Markajacob.
They didn't have to respond to you here at all and could have just refused to consider re-opening your account. I don't think anyone would have blamed them if they had.


I can understand Markajacob's unhappiness with his situation but the thread title was inflammatory and most likely very undeserved. It's never a good idea to post something in a public forum when you are angry. It's best we give ourselves a cooling off period. I also think it's worth mentioning that when the casino is one who has a good reputation on here and is responsive by being visible on the forum that it would be best to take it private first.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The problem here is that other casinos treat this differently, there have been cases where players have used the reversal delay at casinos as a "safe", just to keep their winnings out of temptations way. Rather than then go to bed with a load of little $50 withdrawals in waiting, some have reversed the lot and made one big withdrawal, which they know both saves the casinos processing costs, and is more convenient to the player as they don't end up with a load of transactions at THEIR end.

Their "reward" for this?

You've guessed it, BONUS ABUSE, or "manipulation" of the games. This has lead players to believe that casinos don't WANT players to think about the casinos costs, they just want them to NOT practive this kind of "responsible bankroll management" as they know this type of player is doing so with the full intention of NOT going "on tilt", thus rendering much of the psychological and marketing trickery redundant.

More pressing is the problem at Casino Action, this will result in a distinct unwillingness to leave funds in the hands of even the most REPUTABLE casino group, even for a few hours (remember last week, "business as usual" in the morning, and bust by afternoon, with funds trapped).

For the safe idea to work, it has to be beta tested by a few players, those who triggered it's development in the first place. Further, an incentive scheme linked to the comps scheme should reward keeping funds in the safe.
This leads onto yet another problem. Those casinos that ALREADY have this "safe" because they are a sportsbook, do NOT reward casino players for using the sports wallet as a "safe" rather than making a full withdrawal, indeed they often PUNISH this behaviour, by accusing the player of doing this to "abuse promotions". Ladbrokes levied this exact accusation at ME when I thought it best NOT to deposit & withdraw the funds each day for their scratchcards, they insisted they wanted money to come in from the deposit method, which, of course, meant it had to be withdrawn from the sportsbook "safe". This resulted in far greater transaction costs for them, yet it did NOT make the SLIGHTEST DIFFERENCE to the advantage, or not, that the player had in playing the promotion, BUT, it enabled players to closely control their play by keeping some of the money out of the casino lobby, and to deposit even if their deposit method itself was out of action (empty, or on "scheduled maintenance").

3Dice will have to sell this "safe" idea as just that, with there being no ulterior motive behind it. One thing that would help would be to clearly treat "deposits" from the safe as "new money", and not tell players they CANNOT qualify for a promotion because they elected to use the safe to store the money, rather than withdraw it altogether. The only real promotion affected is the enhanced comps redemption that is offered if they are added to a next deposit, rather than being played as a free chip, or simply cashed and withdrawn.

 

[just play]

Put differently, other players were paying simply to cover the transaction costs generated on your account.

I don't understand this part.

Because someone is doing many transactions, other plays have to pay how? By not winning?


*I have NO understanding how casinos work*

 

[NASHVEGAS]

they just want them to NOT practive this kind of "responsible bankroll management" as they know this type of player is doing so with the full intention of NOT going "on tilt", thus rendering much of the psychological and marketing trickery redundant.

Are there any medications for "on tilt"???....back to our scheduled program!!

 

[babs7262]

I don't understand this part.

Because someone is doing many transactions, other plays have to pay how? By not winning?


*I have NO understanding how casinos work*

I "think" what he meant (im not sure) that if they didnt have to pay so many transaction fees then there would be more money in the budget for giving out bigger or more bonuses

 

[markjacob]

Thanks everybody for their replies especially VWM and Enzo. Maybe I should have said MY PERSONAL LOUSY EXPERIENCE WITH 3DICE, because I believe if you pm or e-mail a casino for 2 days with no reply, it is lousy cs.

I am well aware of their reputation on this forum, it is the reason that I played there to begin with.I don't think for one minute that that Enzo doesn't care about his players more than most for one minute, just an unusual take on a player who was winning for months.

I am sure this will all work out, there was some very good feedback that I will consider.

Thank you all.

 

[markjacob]

Kudos to 3Dice for the kind and considerate reply to Markajacob.
They didn't have to respond to you here at all and could have just refused to consider re-opening your account. I don't think anyone would have blamed them if they had.


I can understand Markajacob's unhappiness with his situation but the thread title was inflammatory and most likely very undeserved. It's never a good idea to post something in a public forum when you are angry. It's best we give ourselves a cooling off period. I also think it's worth mentioning that when the casino is one who has a good reputation on here and is responsive by being visible on the forum that it would be best to take it private first.

Thank you for your post, but I did pm, and e-mail support for 2 days with no answer. Hence the post.

 

[chuchu59]

Hi Markajacob,

As Bob tried to explain to you already, the entire situation has nothing at all to do with you winning at 3Dice. (we mentioned that we hoped you would win for a long time to come in one of the initial emails.). We simply found ourselves in a situation where in the long term, all parties involved would be losing (except for the processors). Put differently, other players were paying simply to cover the transaction costs generated on your account.

Instead of closing your account, I decided to see if we could do something that would help the handful of players including yourself that were responsible for these exuberant transaction costs limit those costs and return some balance to the situation. For this, we implemented the 3Dice safe, intended to be a withdraw method without any costs that allows you to get your wins out of your balance, can be protected for reversals and even falls under any applicable deposit limits. The actual withdraw can then be made from the 3Dice safe after you collect some funds in there. (all to make sure, allow me to stress, that this is not about 'losing back winnings' - quite to the contrary.).

You were indeed one of the first to have this option enabled on your account and with it being brand new some things indeed needed to be worked out. I do (and did) apologize for the inconvenience caused by that, and I regret that it lead you to request your account to be closed.

Once an account is closed at 3Dice (especially if by user request), we have a strict procedure to follow for any further activity on the account. The start of this procedure is a 3 day cool-down period, followed by a request for motivation as re-opening an account is only meaningful if there are reasons to believe a successful customer relationship is indeed possible.

In the mean time, the 3Dice safe has proven to be a very viable solution and a great tool to reduce the transaction costs on accounts of regular players. (reducing transaction costs quite directly translates into more comps .. ) - we may even consider enabling the 3Dice safe for all 3Dice accounts.

I regret that you feel the way you do about our c/s, and I hope you understand the need for a cool-down period when re-opening accounts. You should expect to get follow up on your re-open request shortly, and I do hope that together we can come to the conclusion that we both feel a successful future customer relationship is indeed feasible !

Kindest regards,

Enzo

I think the 'safe' concept is good and workable and I doubt whether 3Dice would tarnish its reputation by using it to the detriment of players. What does Simmo have to say about this?

Mrakjacob, other than the title which wasnt appropriate, I am glad you brought this up because this alternative can give both players and casinos something to choose between flushing of withdrawals and placing them in reversible mode. Many players dont really mind having the money remain in the casino accounts but feel that the willpower to resist going back and lose everything back.

 

[RobWin]

Are there any medications for "on tilt"???....back to our scheduled program!!

 

[markjacob]

BOO!!!!!

 

[3Dice]

I don't understand this part.

Because someone is doing many transactions, other plays have to pay how? By not winning?


*I have NO understanding how casinos work*

Hi Just Play, thank you for your feedback .. the house edge is what makes the casino money. From it, we have to pay our servers, staff, transaction costs, and comp the players. Our fast no bullshit withdraws are part of the reason that transaction costs are the biggest cut of the total cost. If we look at the complete user base, we see that most of the players generate enough play to cover for their own transaction costs, but a small minority does not. They generate more costs than their play (not their wins or losses!) will ever make up for so these costs end up being paid by 3Dice, and lets not be naive .. that means the other players. (there will be less bonus budget from them as part of the house edge generated by them will need to be used to cover those transaction costs.)

The problem here is that other casinos treat this differently, there have been cases where players have used the reversal delay at casinos as a "safe", just to keep their winnings out of temptations way. Rather than then go to bed with a load of little $50 withdrawals in waiting, some have reversed the lot and made one big withdrawal, which they know both saves the casinos processing costs, and is more convenient to the player as they don't end up with a load of transactions at THEIR end.

...

3Dice will have to sell this "safe" idea as just that, with there being no ulterior motive behind it. One thing that would help would be to clearly treat "deposits" from the safe as "new money", and not tell players they CANNOT qualify for a promotion because they elected to use the safe to store the money, rather than withdraw it altogether. The only real promotion affected is the enhanced comps redemption that is offered if they are added to a next deposit, rather than being played as a free chip, or simply cashed and withdrawn.

Hi VinylWeatherMan,

Thank you for your extensive feedback !

We do not want to change how 3Dice withdraws work, a withdraw is a withdraw and it gets processed as soon as humanly possible. Not doing so is the equivalent of holding people at the door of the casino. But as you mention, there are two reasons to make a withdraw. There's the obvious reason where you want to get the cash in your hands to go and spend it . And there's the aspect of it where a player is uncomfortable staying in the casino with all those chips in his pocket and would rather have some of them secured. A withdraw is one way of doing that, and the 3Dice safe will be a cost fee alternative. Using a cost free alternative as opposed to an expensive withdraw will obviously mean more free drinks in the long term ..

We will do our best to make this as transparent as possible to our players, and those that prefer actual withdraws as opposed to the safe will still be allowed to do so, although it will be clear that this has an impact on bonuses and in extreme cases a part of the transaction cost may end up being for the player. (We're prepared to go without theoretical profit on an account - but we're not prepared to have other players pay for it !). Some details will still need to be worked out, and I appreciate the feedback from everyone !

Kindest regards,

Enzo

 

[suzecat]

I have an old moldy computer too...lol...it works fine for me, (I am almost possitive we don't have a 3D video card, unless it was in the computer when we got it like 10 years ago?) except tonight, having some issues logging on and the reels keep spinning (like RTG)

Thank you JP for the input!

Tried again to install, same problem as before. Emailed the bug report to 3Dice and received a reply from 3Dice ack. receipt within 10 minutes! Now that strikes me as exceptional CS!

I may get to play at 3Dice after all.

 

[just play]

Hi Just Play, thank you for your feedback .. the house edge is what makes the casino money. From it, we have to pay our servers, staff, transaction costs, and comp the players. Our fast no bullshit withdraws are part of the reason that transaction costs are the biggest cut of the total cost. If we look at the complete user base, we see that most of the players generate enough play to cover for their own transaction costs, but a small minority does not. They generate more costs than their play (not their wins or losses!) will ever make up for so these costs end up being paid by 3Dice, and lets not be naive .. that means the other players. (there will be less bonus budget from them as part of the house edge generated by them will need to be used to cover those transaction costs.)

Thank you for the easy to understand post!!!

 

[just play]

Thank you JP for the input!

Tried again to install, same problem as before. Emailed the bug report to 3Dice and received a reply from 3Dice ack. receipt within 10 minutes! Now that strikes me as exceptional CS!

I may get to play at 3Dice after all.

I wonder how the games would look if I did have one of those 3D cards?


First game you must try is supersuits!!! What a blast that game is.

 

[markjacob]

Hi Just Play, thank you for your feedback .. the house edge is what makes the casino money. From it, we have to pay our servers, staff, transaction costs, and comp the players. Our fast no bullshit withdraws are part of the reason that transaction costs are the biggest cut of the total cost. If we look at the complete user base, we see that most of the players generate enough play to cover for their own transaction costs, but a small minority does not. They generate more costs than their play (not their wins or losses!) will ever make up for so these costs end up being paid by 3Dice, and lets not be naive .. that means the other players. (there will be less bonus budget from them as part of the house edge generated by them will need to be used to cover those transaction costs.)



Hi VinylWeatherMan,

Thank you for your extensive feedback !

We do not want to change how 3Dice withdraws work, a withdraw is a withdraw and it gets processed as soon as humanly possible. Not doing so is the equivalent of holding people at the door of the casino. But as you mention, there are two reasons to make a withdraw. There's the obvious reason where you want to get the cash in your hands to go and spend it . And there's the aspect of it where a player is uncomfortable staying in the casino with all those chips in his pocket and would rather have some of them secured. A withdraw is one way of doing that, and the 3Dice safe will be a cost fee alternative. Using a cost free alternative as opposed to an expensive withdraw will obviously mean more free drinks in the long term ..

We will do our best to make this as transparent as possible to our players, and those that prefer actual withdraws as opposed to the safe will still be allowed to do so, although it will be clear that this has an impact on bonuses and in extreme cases a part of the transaction cost may end up being for the player. (We're prepared to go without theoretical profit on an account - but we're not prepared to have other players pay for it !). Some details will still need to be worked out, and I appreciate the feedback from everyone !

Kindest regards,

Enzo

If 3 deposits and 3 withdraws a week is alot then your'e in trouble, unless it's because I wasn't losing, then it gets expensive right?

 

[pacers31]

I don't think 3 withdrawls a week is excessive. Enzo, what is excessive for withdrawls per week at 3D??

 

[RobWin]

I don't think 3 withdrawls a week is excessive. Enzo, what is excessive for withdrawls per week at 3D??

I'm just guessing and maybe Enzo will chime in here but I would think that that would be determined by each individual players action in the casino...the number of deposits made per week verses the amount of the deposits verses the frequency of withdrawal requests...JMO

 

[ugaboga]

Let me preface this by saying that I have had a long standing issue with 3Dice regarding finance.

I had received an E-mail over a month ago asking me not to deposit and withdraw so much as my transaction cost was 500.00 since October. You see I play, win 30 to 40 percent of my deposit then withdraw. I would somtimes depsoit 3 times a week. I am also on the better side of the variance right now, so of course I am "up". Alot. To me anyways.

They asked to hold my money in my account until the next time I play to hold down transactions costs, in my book, it read were hoping you play your money back and LOSE!!!

Bob in finance also stated that he would set up a new feature called the safe for me, so if I didn't want to have a balance after each session I could park my money there instead of withdrawing, and would still keep my limit of 700.00 a week in tack. Great, just another way to keep my money in the casino without withdrawing.

I used it the 1st night, and of course there were software issues. After spending half the night with live chat, I had become disgusted and cashed out my remaining money.

I have now tried to re-open my account with no response for 2 days, guess they don't want my business.

The reason I am telling you all of this, is there are 2 sides to this casino. The one that loves the depositors who lose, and the one that ignores those who have had only 3 losing sessions since october.

Enzo, your casino has busted the silver lining that alot of have had for you and your casino.

Hi Markjacobs,

If true, 3dice's stance on this is questionable.

Whilst we're talking about a casino here, I have played at alot of sportsbooks and none of them have had issues with me depositing and withdrawing after one bet later.

The excuse that transaction costs are too high is not good enough. Even if it's at 3 - 4%, the company has made the decision to charge or not charge fees on withdrawals, so it's up to them to offer the same level of service to everyone.

It definitely sounds like they're trying to keep your money there, in the off chance that you might lose it. Just like the reverseable withdrawal option, but this is going one step further; a bit like that they're getting annoyed at you consistenly winning and withdrawing.

I hope you get this sorted out, but your feedback is very valuable, it's good to have the other side as well, not just the constant praisal.

I have a 3Dice account and am very happy with their service, I haven't won has reguarly as you have so I haven't experienced this issue, but it is important that you vent this issue in the public sphere, so that the rest of us, if we do find ourselves in your position, won't have to go through the same ordeal.

Good job

PS: 3Dice reminds me of the Barack Obama campaign, usually no one can find any fault whatsoever and those that do find fault, are often attacking You don't mind me labeling you as Hillary? J/K

 

[ugaboga]

Hi Enzo,

Can you please explain further in regards to the costs of automatic transactions?

I have experience in the merchant industry, although not gaming, but as far as I'm concerned, automatic withdrawals is merely based on a programming solution and you should not be paying any merchant costs on withdrawals through neteller, click2pay etc? If you do, what about passing the cost of withdrawals (percentage) on to customer's who make more then three withdrawals per week?

 

[3Dice]

Hi Guys,

Lets work from a sample here that is very comparable to the account in question to make things clear for everyone. Imagine a player that likes to deposit $100, plays blackjack for on average 100 hands at $10 each session. The blackjack game at 3Dice is at 99.54%, resulting in a $4.6 house edge on each of those sessions. (that is independant of the player winning or losing - in the end all that counts is the total amount staked !). From this $4.6 the 3Dice loyalty program will give $1 back to the player in the form of comp points. The total transaction cost for this sample would be $4.5 on the $100 deposit (assuming visa, or neteller, all about the same), and another $5 fixed for the outgoing m/o. Repeat this three times a week and we have a player that generates $28.5 in cost and $10.8 in house-edge. Keep in mind that winning or losing doesnt make a penny difference here .. if the player loses, 3Dice makes the same amount, its just someone else winning it ..

If the same player would deposit $100 in the beginning of the week .. withdraw to his safe (which is limited to allow redeposits of say $100/day), then has exactly the same sessions and withdraws at the end of the week. This player (that uses the safe) would now generate $9.5 in cost and still $10.8 in house-edge, and there'd be room to comp him/her for $1.3 (not spectacular - but at least no other players comp budget needed to be touched to cover the costs.).

We only sent out emails and sugested the safe to players who had over a period of several months generated 10 (TEN) times or more cost than house-edge. Sure I could say 3Dice will cover this but before anyone defends it you should realize what it means ! I'm stepping up here to recover a cost payed by the players that are NOT causing it !

ugaboga, online payment processors charge for all transactions. Costs on deposits are between 4% to 5% for all popular methods (visa, neteller) and withdraw costs vary from a fixed and low 0.5 (moneybookers) over 2% (neteller) up to almost 10% (c2p).

An automatic transaction is no more expensive than a batched one, but offering automatic transactions increases the amount of withdraw-redeposit cycles which as the example shows sky-rocket the transaction cost and will have an impact on comps in any serious business model.

The vast majority of the players will never have any problem with this at 3Dice, and even more so, they can rest assured that we will do what is required to make sure that transaction costs of those few others are not being covered with a budget coming from their comps and promotions.

I'll be happy to provide in more information when needed,

Kindest regards,

Enzo

 

[ugaboga]

Hi Enzo,

Thank you for your reply.

I can see where you're coming from, but how about having the option to pass the fees onto the customer?

In the current market, some casinos limit you to a certain amount of withdrawals per week, some carry the cost and some pass the cost to the customer after a certain amount of withdrawals have been amassed.

The safe idea is a good one, but allowing withdrawals to proceed at a cost, would remove the possibility of the player viewing the casino as wanting them to lose their funds, instead of withdrawing.

 

[LaurieJim]

Hi Enzo,

Thank you for your reply.

I can see where you're coming from, but how about having the option to pass the fees onto the customer?

In the current market, some casinos limit you to a certain amount of withdrawals per week, some carry the cost and some pass the cost to the customer after a certain amount of withdrawals have been amassed.

The safe idea is a good one, but allowing withdrawals to proceed at a cost, would remove the possibility of the player viewing the casino as wanting them to lose their funds, instead of withdrawing.

... that would be a great idea, i had no idea it was costing the casino so much for this service until enzo explained it to me in a p.m.i was a little upset that i had lost 8k at 3- dice in a short period with no real wins to speak of.( this was after i had won alot) i think i understand what he is trying to say but i do want to thank him for the 100.00 no w/r on my losses. i still play there and i like 3- dice casino and the staff is great. its my fault for giving it back so from what i make of this (we) the casino and i both lost as they charge the casino 5% for every deposit and withdrawal. oh heck im still confused, but i do know this ........".a fool and HER money are soon parted if they get crazy" crazy one being moi!!!!!!.i was so that i sent babs a p.m i guess i need my butt kicked, i did manage to withdraw and have 3k sent to me (made off another casino)hope it gets to my bank soon.....foolish laurie

 

[RobWin]

... that would be a great idea, i had no idea it was costing the casino so much for this service until enzo explained it to me in a p.m.i was a little upset that i had lost 8k at 3- dice in a short period with no real wins to speak of.( this was after i had won alot) i think i understand what he is trying to say but i do want to thank him for the 100.00 no w/r on my losses. i still play there and i like 3- dice casino and the staff is great. its my fault for giving it back so from what i make of this (we) the casino and i both lost as they charge the casino 5% for every deposit and withdrawal. oh heck im still confused, but i do know this ........".a fool and HER money are soon parted if they get crazy" crazy one being moi!!!!!!.i was so that i sent babs a p.m i guess i need my butt kicked, i did manage to withdraw and have 3k sent to me (made off another casino)hope it gets to my bank soon.....foolish laurie

Laurie, please...please, don't tell me that all of those great wins from 3Dice that you recently posted in the Winner Screenshots thread were in Vain ?

 

[ugaboga]

... that would be a great idea, i had no idea it was costing the casino so much for this service until enzo explained it to me in a p.m.i was a little upset that i had lost 8k at 3- dice in a short period with no real wins to speak of.( this was after i had won alot) i think i understand what he is trying to say but i do want to thank him for the 100.00 no w/r on my losses. i still play there and i like 3- dice casino and the staff is great. its my fault for giving it back so from what i make of this (we) the casino and i both lost as they charge the casino 5% for every deposit and withdrawal. oh heck im still confused, but i do know this ........".a fool and HER money are soon parted if they get crazy" crazy one being moi!!!!!!.i was so that i sent babs a p.m i guess i need my butt kicked, i did manage to withdraw and have 3k sent to me (made off another casino)hope it gets to my bank soon.....foolish laurie

Laurie, have you been playing $100 per spin again? :sob:

 

[TDTAT]

Hi Mark! I understand this stinks from your view point.
In my limited experience with this casino you would
have a better shot fixing this with a different approach.

Try a kinder, gentler approach with a casino
that is known to treat players well and I think the problems could be fixed right up.

Good luck to you!

 

[LaurieJim]

Laurie, please...please, don't tell me that all of those great wins from 3Dice that you recently posted in the Winner Screenshots thread were in Vain ?

Laurie, have you been playing $100 per spin again? :sob:

no not in vain i did have alot of fun playing and no not one 100.00 spin there i was the foolish one but how many of us are honest enough to say its so tempting to play and before we know it we are busted. i really have no remorse about it, just kinda sickened with myself the first day but who knows with that next spin, you never know when gambling either online or at a b/m , when its ready to hit..laurie...

 

[RobWin]

no not in vain i did have alot of fun playing and no not one 100.00 spin there i was the foolish one but how many of us are honest enough to say its so tempting to play and before we know it we are busted. i really have no remorse about it, just kinda sickened with myself the first day but who knows with that next spin, you never know when gambling either online or at a b/m , when its ready to hit..laurie...

Yea, I know what you mean Laurie, I've done the same thing many times before and kicked myself in the ass then for two days...no one can beat me up as bad as I can beat myself up...

 

[markjacob]

Hi Guys,

Lets work from a sample here that is very comparable to the account in question to make things clear for everyone. Imagine a player that likes to deposit $100, plays blackjack for on average 100 hands at $10 each session. The blackjack game at 3Dice is at 99.54%, resulting in a $4.6 house edge on each of those sessions. (that is independant of the player winning or losing - in the end all that counts is the total amount staked !). From this $4.6 the 3Dice loyalty program will give $1 back to the player in the form of comp points. The total transaction cost for this sample would be $4.5 on the $100 deposit (assuming visa, or neteller, all about the same), and another $5 fixed for the outgoing m/o. Repeat this three times a week and we have a player that generates $28.5 in cost and $10.8 in house-edge. Keep in mind that winning or losing doesnt make a penny difference here .. if the player loses, 3Dice makes the same amount, its just someone else winning it ..

If the same player would deposit $100 in the beginning of the week .. withdraw to his safe (which is limited to allow redeposits of say $100/day), then has exactly the same sessions and withdraws at the end of the week. This player (that uses the safe) would now generate $9.5 in cost and still $10.8 in house-edge, and there'd be room to comp him/her for $1.3 (not spectacular - but at least no other players comp budget needed to be touched to cover the costs.).

We only sent out emails and sugested the safe to players who had over a period of several months generated 10 (TEN) times or more cost than house-edge. Sure I could say 3Dice will cover this but before anyone defends it you should realize what it means ! I'm stepping up here to recover a cost payed by the players that are NOT causing it !

ugaboga, online payment processors charge for all transactions. Costs on deposits are between 4% to 5% for all popular methods (visa, neteller) and withdraw costs vary from a fixed and low 0.5 (moneybookers) over 2% (neteller) up to almost 10% (c2p).

An automatic transaction is no more expensive than a batched one, but offering automatic transactions increases the amount of withdraw-redeposit cycles which as the example shows sky-rocket the transaction cost and will have an impact on comps in any serious business model.

The vast majority of the players will never have any problem with this at 3Dice, and even more so, they can rest assured that we will do what is required to make sure that transaction costs of those few others are not being covered with a budget coming from their comps and promotions.

I'll be happy to provide in more information when needed,

Kindest regards,

Enzo

I am sooo confused. I understand perfectly the math here, but in my estimation, and by other posts on this forum, there are many players who are more than making up for my style of play lol.Correct me if I'm wrong, but my history does show that I deposit 3times and withdraw 3times a weeek, with my transaction cost at 28.00 per, and that does not include what I am winning. Am I right?

So, I know that there are players who make up for my winnings. Right?

Please correct me if I'm wrong enzo, as I need to learn about this. I find this fascinating and informative, and greatly appreciated.

Please note that I also appreciate your previous posts, I truly didn't want to do this, but in retrospect, I'm glad I did, as I think we have all learned alot about how casinos work from you.

Fyi, Bob has also responded with his usual nice and funny e-mail today, so I will definitely be in contact with him Monday.

Thank you.

 

[markjacob]

Hi Enzo,

Thank you for your reply.

I can see where you're coming from, but how about having the option to pass the fees onto the customer?

In the current market, some casinos limit you to a certain amount of withdrawals per week, some carry the cost and some pass the cost to the customer after a certain amount of withdrawals have been amassed.

The safe idea is a good one, but allowing withdrawals to proceed at a cost, would remove the possibility of the player viewing the casino as wanting them to lose their funds, instead of withdrawing.

I don't know about others, but I would be happy to pay a small withdraw fee, to help offset some of the transaction costs. I think it is a small price to pay for quick withdrawels.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

The blackjack game at 3Dice is at 99.54%

According to which fully independent auditing firm????......No further questions your honor.

 

[babs7262]

Sorry to derail for a second.


Laurie

Im sorry I didnt kick your butt! LOL...I thought to myself "she must feel real bad if she's emailing me and telling me not to tell anyone"and Im not one to judge, besides I didnt want to add salt to the injury while you were upset, thats why I said I was out of your league at that point and to PM Nash for help! My jaw droppped

Next time I know...if you lose that much and tell me, Ill know its my cue to kick your butt into next year! this is documented lol

 

[same_old]

Enzo matey,

Just make 2 withdrawals per month free if anymore then apply a fee,


Also make the minimum withdrawal to be say 20USD across the board.

you will start to get a few people doing this trying to withdraw small amounts and such, if you post something on your forums or site with the new info then.

I know alot of wihtdrawals per month does add up alot for the casinoes.


I personally think the 20USD minimum and 2 free withdrawals per month is more than satisfactory.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Sorry to derail for a second.


Laurie

Im sorry I didnt kick your butt! LOL...I thought to myself "she must feel real bad if she's emailing me and telling me not to tell anyone"and Im not one to judge, besides I didnt want to add salt to the injury while you were upset, thats why I said I was out of your league at that point and to PM Nash for help! My jaw droppped

Next time I know...if you lose that much and tell me, Ill know its my cue to kick your butt into next year! this is documented lol

Laurie knows I can preach but I can not practice what I preach about online...Babs,most do not have your discipline and Laurie pm'ed the correct person in you...Online gambling for a multitude of reasons at least for me is pyschologically (and still not sure about mathematically) different and I repeat the same mistakes but less often as I do not play as often as in the past. I know the answer for me, I just need to fully execute it...I can relate to Laurie's situation but I am a poor example on retaining any nice wins on good runs also (I am fortunate as we recently posted about in another thread that I still meet the so called criteria of a responsible gambler)...Laurie will have to decide her course of action herself, but I know I mean well for Laurie as I am sure you do to

 

[ugaboga]

According to which fully independent auditing firm????......No further questions your honor.

Why... the internal auditing firm.. of course

 

[jerrylee]

Just wondering, what is the minimum withdrawal?

and to markjacob, while 3 deposit, 3 withdrawals / week aren't much to you, I wonder what the amounts of your typical withdrawals are. For Enzo to explain the casino's side with such poise and detail, but you still arguing about his stance regarding your account, something doesn't add up. Can you post a screenshot of your transaction records? PM me for instructions if you need them.

 

[chuchu59]

Sorry to derail for a second.


Laurie

Im sorry I didnt kick your butt! LOL...I thought to myself "she must feel real bad if she's emailing me and telling me not to tell anyone"and Im not one to judge, besides I didnt want to add salt to the injury while you were upset, thats why I said I was out of your league at that point and to PM Nash for help! My jaw droppped

Next time I know...if you lose that much and tell me, Ill know its my cue to kick your butt into next year! this is documented lol

Okay Babs,

I will do it then. We have a slang in Hong Kong that is pronounced "Law-lee-jin" which is roughly translated to having inflicted this on yourself. Obviously, I dont really mean it but next time she comes to Hong Kong or meet a caller from here, she would be better off calling herself laurie then lauriejim.

Laurie, it's darkest before dawn. I hope you get a JP win on your next WSS preferably on one of the 2 MMs at MG and I dont mean M&M chocolate.

 

[babs7262]

Oh Nash

I didnt mean for her to look for you to kick her butt lol. She asked me a question about something regarding the 8K loss and I felt the question was out of my league because I was such a low roller and to ask you because you have more knowledge on the subject she was referring to.

 

[markjacob]

Just wondering, what is the minimum withdrawal?

and to markjacob, while 3 deposit, 3 withdrawals / week aren't much to you, I wonder what the amounts of your typical withdrawals are. For Enzo to explain the casino's side with such poise and detail, but you still arguing about his stance regarding your account, something doesn't add up. Can you post a screenshot of your transaction records? PM me for instructions if you need them.

I'm not arguing with Enzo, never did. A difference of opinion, as I think had I been losing those deposits a week, it would be a different story.

I just don't think it's appropriate to post my record here, it's irrelevant how much I win. Remember, it's the transaction costs, plus lack of communication that started this.

That said, I already had posted that I have been in communication with Bob in finance.

Thank you for your post though.

 

[markjacob]

Just a quick update.............

I have spoken with Bob in finance and all of our issues have been resolved. He re-opened my account after I asked them to close it 2 weeks ago, even and I qoute (it's against our better business judgement) LOL.

Our miscommunication issues I now know was partly my fault as I was using the same ticket # to him, and he was away for a few days, not the ignore as I assumed.

I have also asked Max to change the title of this thread to 3dice communication issues.

Thanks everybody for their input, Enzo as well.