Red Flush holds extra $$ ???

wanda5

Full Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Location
lala land
Im putting this in complaints only b/c I'm irritated... actually there could be a very good explanation to this...unfortunately I have yet to hear back from Red Flush to hear their explanation so I thought I would check here.

I ONLY use a prepaid card to play online and all of my transactions run very smooth with every casino EXCEPT Red Flush. Here is exactly what happens, I deposit $100 and they immediately take it out of my account I can see it online that $100 has been removed right away ITS GONE...later that week the same company puts another $100 charge on my card and it sits in pending for a week typically! Today I looked and I was charged $100 on the 18th which is correct and then ANOTHER $100 charge again on the 18th... its been 9 days & still they have not reversed the money. The credit card company assured me that its NOT on thier end and when they do have a hold or something pending, its for no more than 72 hours. So my question is WHY do they keep taking double out and later refunding half of it?? Its so irritating b/c if i put $200 on my card and make a $100 deposit at Red Flush...they take $200 so I then try to use my card elsewhere or even make another deposit and I get rejected. PLEASE tell me why. I have played everywhere and this never happens. BTW...hi everyone and Happy thanksgiving!! ;)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Im putting this in complaints only b/c I'm irritated... actually there could be a very good explanation to this...unfortunately I have yet to hear back from Red Flush to hear their explanation so I thought I would check here.

I ONLY use a prepaid card to play online and all of my transactions run very smooth with every casino EXCEPT Red Flush. Here is exactly what happens, I deposit $100 and they immediately take it out of my account I can see it online that $100 has been removed right away ITS GONE...later that week the same company puts another $100 charge on my card and it sits in pending for a week typically! Today I looked and I was charged $100 on the 18th which is correct and then ANOTHER $100 charge again on the 18th... its been 9 days & still they have not reversed the money. The credit card company assured me that its NOT on thier end and when they do have a hold or something pending, its for no more than 72 hours. So my question is WHY do they keep taking double out and later refunding half of it?? Its so irritating b/c if i put $200 on my card and make a $100 deposit at Red Flush...they take $200 so I then try to use my card elsewhere or even make another deposit and I get rejected. PLEASE tell me why. I have played everywhere and this never happens. BTW...hi everyone and Happy thanksgiving!! ;)

I assume you are from the US


If so, it is the third party processor, they are SCREWING YOU OVER!!!!

This has become VERY common, and although the funds DO finally return, this does NOT excuse the FRAUDULENT removal of the extra $100, which seems to be a matter of routine, rather than an unfortunate error (which might be excusable).

No one so far is prepared to fess up to WHO exactly is doing this. The card company say "nope - not us", and so do the casino. The processor does not usually comment.

The best thing to do is just keep on badgering both parties till the funds are returned, if EVERY player so affected does this, maybe they will get fed up of this little scam. The processors make a little extra money on this, as while YOU are waiting for the funds, $100 goes where intended, the other $100 EARNS INTEREST for whoever is holding it.

UK banks do this all the time, they call it "clearing", yet it also applies to ELECTRONIC transfers, which shows just what a load of BS it is. If I pay my credit card off on the 27th, say, it doesn't turn up till something like 3rd of next month, while I am charged interest for these intervening days on my card, and at the same time stop getting interest from the bank.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Wanda5, if you used the "usual" debit card like most of us do, it is the card company holding your funds. I had the same issue. I called the card company and was told that because it was a gambling site that they were going to hold (or show as pending) all transactions $50 and over for 1 week and $100 and over for 30 days even though the transaction went through a couple of days later. This is something new and only happens with certain casinos, Rivals for sure. Can make your card negative for sure. And they won't budge about it. PM me and I will let you know which ones they held for me and which ones they don't if you want to know.
 

funky_seagull

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Location
scotland
I assume you are from the US

UK banks do this all the time, they call it "clearing", yet it also applies to ELECTRONIC transfers, which shows just what a load of BS it is. If I pay my credit card off on the 27th, say, it doesn't turn up till something like 3rd of next month, while I am charged interest for these intervening days on my card, and at the same time stop getting interest from the bank.

Yet another example of why banks are just total wankers...
 

Stovetopp

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
On the Beach
A simple solution using ALL ACCESS DEBIT CARD.
I have heard of this complaint before and prior to my obtaining a debit card.


If you intend to deposit &100 dollars just have 102 dollars in the card. This way you are assured there can be no double dipping... I don't see how the debit card can go negative for more than the 1 dollar they charge .
So if you intend to deposit 200 just buy 202 dollars and deposit the 200 bucks....This way no hassle , no anxieties and of course you have to be sure
you are playing with a casino that will pay

If you use the card for other purpose that a VISA card was meant for , by all means get another one (you are allowed as many as you want) Sure the fees will eat you up but waht's a few bucks compared to the several hundred bucks one bets..That is the price for recreation and you may win a JACASSPOT
Happy Thanksgiving evryone!!
 

just play

closed account
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Location
USA
Wanda5, if you used the "usual" debit card like most of us do, it is the card company holding your funds. I had the same issue. I called the card company and was told that because it was a gambling site that they were going to hold (or show as pending) all transactions $50 and over for 1 week and $100 and over for 30 days even though the transaction went through a couple of days later. This is something new and only happens with certain casinos, Rivals for sure. Can make your card negative for sure. And they won't budge about it. PM me and I will let you know which ones they held for me and which ones they don't if you want to know.

Yup, same thing happened to me. Mine did go in the negative for about a week a few times. I even called up and asked how can it be in the negative if I RELOAD IT!!! I does eventually come off, but that week or so of waiting is a pain. :mad:
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Doesn't work that way, Stovetopp. I had exactly XXX$ on one card and deposited to a Rival. Went thru as pending - 0 balance. 3 days later -XXX$ because they ran the actual deposit thru but held the pending for 30 days. Made my card in the negative for the whole time.

I just use QT now even though it costs to load. It's better than having funds tied up for days.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Doesn't work that way, Stovetopp. I had exactly XXX$ on one card and deposited to a Rival. Went thru as pending - 0 balance. 3 days later -XXX$ because they ran the actual deposit thru but held the pending for 30 days. Made my card in the negative for the whole time.

I just use QT now even though it costs to load. It's better than having funds tied up for days.

Surley this can't be legal, they are not simply "holding", but double charging.
I'll bet it is because they know you WILL NOT COMPLAIN because it is "gambling", and they are not supposed to allow it anyway.

Call their bluff, ditch the card and get the transactions investigated by the authorities, demanding an explanation. Tell them you believed it was LEGAL online gambling since the UIGEA exempts it, AND the card company DIDN'T block it (so it HAD to be "legal").
 

classymom

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Port St lucie Florida
This is happening all the time w/ Netspend - I have 2 cards so when they double dip my one card I use the other. Its a pain the a$$ - I noticed now that Rival casino charges are now listed as casino so its obvious where the money is going. I think if you are going to deposit more than 100.00 to use a wallet- having money pending for a month is very frustrating mad:
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
VWM, believe me, I did bitch and bitch and bitch. Was told there was nothing I could do and I did trash the card. But as a US citizen, there is only so many options we have for depositing. So now I fund my QT account and go from there. They can't hold it because it is used for othere things, I guess. Not all casinos are flagged. Some work just fine. Depends on their processors.

All we ever get from the powers that be are "Gambling is illegal" BS and there you go.
 

wanda5

Full Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Location
lala land
VWM, believe me, I did bitch and bitch and bitch. Was told there was nothing I could do and I did trash the card. But as a US citizen, there is only so many options we have for depositing. So now I fund my QT account and go from there. They can't hold it because it is used for othere things, I guess. Not all casinos are flagged. Some work just fine. Depends on their processors.

All we ever get from the powers that be are "Gambling is illegal" BS and there you go.


Yes grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr & it SUX being at their mercy!!
 

linda7

Non-Gambler
Joined
Apr 12, 2002
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Red Flush and their duplicate charges:

Hi everyone,

I play constantly at Red Flush, and the processing company that keeps doing the duplicate charges is called "Callo". They constantly take duplicate charges from my netspend card. Just the other day, I went to deposit and it came up declined. I knew I had money on Netspend, so I went to verify how much and I saw I was in the minus column for over $350.00! How can you overcharge with a debit card? So, I called netspend as usual, and they advised me that Callo did it again. Let me explain how it is done....when we make a purchase at a casino, the processing company is given an authorization number from the credit/debit card company. Callo, puts through the transaction for payment Without the authorization number, this is called a "forced post", they get paid, then they put through the same transaction using the authorization code. Pretty sweet huh? Luckily, netspend is on the watch for them with my accounts. However, it still ties up my money and this frustrates me to no end. As it stands, I am waiting for almost $2000 to be released. Yesterday, I told Red Flush when you can find a decent processor give me a buzz and I will come back to play. Until then, RF is not considered an accredited casino in my eyes.

Have a good day everyone.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi everyone,

I play constantly at Red Flush, and the processing company that keeps doing the duplicate charges is called "Callo". They constantly take duplicate charges from my netspend card. Just the other day, I went to deposit and it came up declined. I knew I had money on Netspend, so I went to verify how much and I saw I was in the minus column for over $350.00! How can you overcharge with a debit card? So, I called netspend as usual, and they advised me that Callo did it again. Let me explain how it is done....when we make a purchase at a casino, the processing company is given an authorization number from the credit/debit card company. Callo, puts through the transaction for payment Without the authorization number, this is called a "forced post", they get paid, then they put through the same transaction using the authorization code. Pretty sweet huh? Luckily, netspend is on the watch for them with my accounts. However, it still ties up my money and this frustrates me to no end. As it stands, I am waiting for almost $2000 to be released. Yesterday, I told Red Flush when you can find a decent processor give me a buzz and I will come back to play. Until then, RF is not considered an accredited casino in my eyes.

Have a good day everyone.

This seems to show that Callo are comitting some kind of fraud by deliberately using a "forced post", knowing full well that they can duplicate the transaction with the authorisation code. Netspend are also negligent in allowing this "forced post" method to actually work - surely, in the interests of the consumer it should NOT. Processors should be told by card companies that transactions will ONLY go through WITH the authorisation number.
If Netspend have to watch for this, it implies there is a possible loophole in the system that might, under some circumstances, allow them to get away with receiving a duplicate transaction.
Previously, it seems the argument has been that this is simply down to how the system works, the transaction being requested, money ringfenced, and then getting put through properly later, with the double charge simply being an artifact of the system.

This kind of thing does the casinos no favours at all, and they should ensure that players are NOT put at undue risk, and keep a close eye on the processors. They may have to pick from a rather dodgy lot, but there should be limits. When things go wrong with casino processors, it is the casinos themselves that receive a thorough bashing, not the processors who can hide behind the scenes.

If this kind of thing happened here in the UK on a routine basis, the FSA would be all over the banks demanding an explanation and an end to it.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
This seems to show that Callo are comitting some kind of fraud by deliberately using a "forced post", knowing full well that they can duplicate the transaction with the authorisation code.

Rephrase, please, without the words "fraud", "deliberately", "knowing full well" which you have zero proof of.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Rephrase, please, without the words "fraud", "deliberately", "knowing full well" which you have zero proof of.

I did say this SEEMS to show, and not "this shows".

Surely, if Netspend are having to keep watch for this, it is certainly not normal procedure for their card transactions.

In the more general case, there was an article referenced in another thread that discussed that casinos ARE indeed being forced into bed with processors that do indeed attempt to help themselves to extra money.

I have debit cards and credit cards, and what is being explained here is most certainly NOT "routine". If this were down to genuine errors, there would be occasional transactions that appeared duplicated, but these would be sorted out with little fuss. Here, it seems that EVERY transaction this player made through this processor was being duplicated. They were given an explanation from Netspend of exactly how this was being achieved, and surely this is either incredible incompetence, or the processors system is set up to request the transaction twice, once without the authorisation code, and once with. While players are being told the duplicates will simply "drop off" after a while, there is no obvious need for them in the first case, and surely an up front legitimate processor would not be doing this.
The players here are in a very vulnerable position, they cannot complain to their regulators, since this would mean disclosing more about the transaction, the casinos can't really put much pressure on the processors, since there may be no alternative.

Casinos do not SEEM to have definitive proof when they accuse PLAYERS of doing something wrong, rather, they seem to go on a "balance of probabilities" approach, determining that with a certain number of "indicators" present, "proof" can be said to exist that the player comitted the offence, being it breach of contract, such as playing excluded games, or fraud (usually using fake ID) The number of times that escalated complaints go in favour of players seems to indicate that a significant number of innocents get found guilty on this basis.
Surely, if casinos can brand a player as "definitely" a multiple account registerer, member of a fraud ring, etc on what is simply "the balance of probabilities" rather than near rock solid proof, they should not take offence when they too, or their agents, are said to be "guilty" of some activity or other based on a "balance of probabilities" analysis of known circumstances, rather than the solid proof that would be required to uphold a case at the level of a criminal court.

For balance, is there a perfectly innocent alternative explanation for a processor doing what has been described above as part of normal operating procedure?
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
I did say this SEEMS to show, and not "this shows".

Awfully obscure and weak compared to the three words/phrases you used elsewhere in the sentence. I don't agree that "seems" is an acceptable excuse for flouting the rules.

I have debit cards and credit cards, and what is being explained here is most certainly NOT "routine".

Are you a merchant? Do you have any idea how transactions are posted? Have you never had a pre-authorization lock up funds on your card, and then later you discover that the actual transaction got a different authorization number, thus forcing the other authorization to lock your funds for a few days?

While I'm not saying that a forced post is routine, it isn't necessarily out of the ordinary either. Shit happens. Networks go down. Systems need downtime to update sometimes.

While players are being told the duplicates will simply "drop off" after a while, there is no obvious need for them in the first case, and surely an up front legitimate processor would not be doing this.

While I am not a fan of duplicate transactions, they DO happen for various reasons - as long as I am credited in a reasonable amount of time, there really isn't much that can be done. It has nothing to do with being upfront or legitimate.

Casinos do not SEEM to have definitive proof when they accuse PLAYERS of doing something wrong, rather, they seem to go on a "balance of probabilities" approach, determining that with a certain number of "indicators" present, "proof" can be said to exist that the player comitted the offence, being it breach of contract, such as playing excluded games, or fraud (usually using fake ID) The number of times that escalated complaints go in favour of players seems to indicate that a significant number of innocents get found guilty on this basis.

And how is this relevant to the discussion at hand?

For balance, is there a perfectly innocent alternative explanation for a processor doing what has been described above as part of normal operating procedure?

Try Googling "credit card forced post". In fact, try Googling any of the things you frequently blow out of proportion.

You are one of the more senior members here - as such I would expect you to set a decent example for others. By the same token, you've been cut a lot of slack. However, this cannot continue - your posts and opinions are always welcome but for the final time, do not make claims, or insinuations, of anything without REASONABLE evidence - I'm not expecting everyone to hold to the standard defined in the following forum rule, but I still expect to see reasonable assumptions, or else a very clearly stated case that indicates that it is your OPINION - "seems" does not meet that minimal standard.

Casinomeister Forum Rules said:
1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts. Do not make posts that could be considered libelous, defamatory, or posting merely to cause harm to another's business. Opinions are expected, but do not attack others with accusations of criminal activity unless this has been proven in a court of law.

Reprinted from
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