Record complaints against gambling companies

[Slottery]

Is there any way of knowing the stats of how many people play online now?

UKGC should be able to ask every licensed casinos who many players they have but i assume that nobody keep such a statistic all the time up to date. But quite many, even quite small operators have quite big customer bases, many try out so many places, they can stay active or play somewhere else depends how good experience was.

No even trying to guess amount of people from UK who have created at least one gaming account in their life, but it's quite much. You see banners to click and get free chance to win money if you ever visit internet and quite many try just to be curious. How many people actively are playing like at least every month is another number but we know that many of us enjoy to have game there and then, probably pretty much hobby/interest like many other things you do in your life. But would be interesting to see some numbers as i can't even guess whole picture in all casinos grand total.

 

[Slottery]

Ahh Panorama, the hard-hitting, informative and completely non-biased exposé investigative show that tackles the problems of our times in 28 minutes

Have to almost watch that, now probably understood what kind of program we speak about exist in every country and top-notch of all critical and investigating journalism in the world

 

[goatwack]

Have to almost watch that, now probably understood what kind of program we speak about exist in every country and top-notch of all critical and investigating journalism in the world

Then you're best off not watching Panorama then

 

[bebo67]

UKGC should be able to ask every licensed casinos who many players they have but i assume that nobody keep such a statistic all the time up to date. But quite many, even quite small operators have quite big customer bases, many try out so many places, they can stay active or play somewhere else depends how good experience was.

No even trying to guess amount of people from UK who have created at least one gaming account in their life, but it's quite much. You see banners to click and get free chance to win money if you ever visit internet and quite many try just to be curious. How many people actively are playing like at least every month is another number but we know that many of us enjoy to have game there and then, probably pretty much hobby/interest like many other things you do in your life. But would be interesting to see some numbers as i can't even guess whole picture in all casinos grand total.

I would be interested in doing an article ( I'm a published freelance writer), but I would need some sort of numbers.

 

[bebo67]

I would be interested in doing an article ( I'm a published freelance writer), but I would need some sort of numbers.

And UKCG only covers the UK.
Maybe MGA has a rough idea?
@Casinomeister . On average, how many visitors do you get in a day?

 

[Nicola]

Just watched this on iPlayer, very one-sided but can understand the concerns expressed in the programme.

Some of the people interviewed clearly wanting to get their money back from the casinos after they lost it etc.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Quite sad to see a BBC programme so one sided, but as others have said it’s not new. Why no industry representative? A lot of cases they are discussing are years old and it would never happen now - I’m not excusing that it was acceptable then either before anyone thinks that - but the examples they gave were ludicrous too, nobody in the right mind would respond to “now isn’t a good time to talk” with a bonus, not reply to an email offering condolences and a bonus - these things do not happen!

 

[Nicola]

If anyone missed it or you're outside the UK, drop me a pm and I'll send you download link for the full programme (149MB)

 

[Moom]

Quite sad to see a BBC programme so one sided, but as others have said it’s not new. Why no industry representative? A lot of cases they are discussing are years old and it would never happen now - I’m not excusing that it was acceptable then either before anyone thinks that - but the examples they gave were ludicrous too, nobody in the right mind would respond to “now isn’t a good time to talk” with a bonus, not reply to an email offering condolences and a bonus - these things do not happen!

I don't find it that unbelievable. I am not a VIP but can speak on a much smaller level. I have excluded myself from a casino last year and had them continue to email me with special offers. Would get multiple emails a week.

 

[slotter999]

Quite sad to see a BBC programme so one sided, but as others have said it’s not new. Why no industry representative? A lot of cases they are discussing are years old and it would never happen now - I’m not excusing that it was acceptable then either before anyone thinks that - but the examples they gave were ludicrous too, nobody in the right mind would respond to “now isn’t a good time to talk” with a bonus, not reply to an email offering condolences and a bonus - these things do not happen!

Hi Mark,

You represent a company that was fined 2m in 2018 "for missing 22 opportunities for opportunities to help a problem gambler, offering the customer VIP status and free bonuses instead of advice."

The fine was aggravated by the fact your company had not learned from previous transgressions so one might argue that you are part of the problem.

Perhaps your input to this conversation could be you comprehensively detailing what changes 32red have implemented since those failings to ensure this never happens again?

I did read the response from 32red at the time of the fine but it was all very non specific. Here's the quote which might understand why I'm none the wiser:-

A spokesperson said: “Kindred is working hard across all teams and brands to consolidate and improve business processes, making use of best practices from all areas of the business.

As a company putting sustainability at the very core of its business strategy, Kindred remains committed to ensuring customers can enjoy gambling in a safe and secure environment.”

 

[Nicola]

In defence of 32Red... The TV programme and previous fine(s) given are based on historical cases. A hell of a lot of changes have happened in the past year and 90% or more of these kind of cases would be caught earlier nowadays.

I'm not the biggest fan of 32red as many know. Their withdrawal times are very poor compared to other accredited casinos and their affiliate program is run by crooks..... but I closed my account here earlier this year citing slow withdrawals/MG only games and a couple of days later a manager called me personally to ask if I had any problems with my gambling and if I needed help.

As I never mentioned problem gambling or ever made big or frequent deposits there, the manager was clearly going above the industry guidelines to check my personal situation.

Both 32Red and JackpotJoy today probably have the highest levels of checking responsible gambling on their UK players than anyone else. Yes, they have made costly mistakes in the past but big changes have happened since.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Hi Mark,

You represent a company that was fined 2m in 2018 "for missing 22 opportunities for opportunities to help a problem gambler, offering the customer VIP status and free bonuses instead of advice."

The fine was aggravated by the fact your company had not learned from previous transgressions so one might argue that you are part of the problem.

Perhaps your input to this conversation could be you comprehensively detailing what changes 32red have implemented since those failings to ensure this never happens again?

I did read the response from 32red at the time of the fine but it was all very non specific. Here's the quote which might understand why I'm none the wiser:-

A spokesperson said: “Kindred is working hard across all teams and brands to consolidate and improve business processes, making use of best practices from all areas of the business.

As a company putting sustainability at the very core of its business strategy, Kindred remains committed to ensuring customers can enjoy gambling in a safe and secure environment.”

Hi

Thanks for your post, I’m afraid I’m not going to comprehensively list anything on a public forum but I’m very confident that the new processes are right for the player and we continue to monitor and evolve our approach.

Mark

 

[maxd]

Hi Mark,

You represent a company that was fined 2m in 2018 "for missing 22 opportunities for opportunities to help a problem gambler, offering the customer VIP status and free bonuses instead of advice."
....

I can't go into details but I will say that it would be a mistake to assume that receiving a fine for X, Y and Z is proof that those fine(s) were fully justified and appropriate.

Look at it this way: when your licensing body accuses you of something and says "pay this much" what do you do?
You can say "get stuffed" and walk.
You can fight it. likely into the courts, and deal with that mess, not to mention putting your license in serious jeopardy.
You can keep your mouth shut, pay the fine(s), and press on.

Ask yourself what a company like 32Red -- by that time making the transition to Kindred management -- would do faced with those choices. If you are having trouble I'll give you a hint: "be pragmatic" would have been first and foremost on their minds.

And no, I'm not just speculating. I dug into the 32Red situation at the time and was able to get what I needed to satisfy me as to what was behind the fine(s) and what was behind the company's response.

 

[Moom]

Just watched this on iPlayer, very one-sided but can understand the concerns expressed in the programme.

Some of the people interviewed clearly wanting to get their money back from the casinos after they lost it etc.

To be fair, it is specifically about gambling addiction, so I would expect it to be very one sided.

Not sure I got the impression it was about some annoyed people wanting their money back. It was more about proceeds of crime being used to gamble and parents of gambling addicts who committed suicide trying to prevent it from happening to other people. Don't think I seen anyone asking for their money back outside of the guy who was using stolen cash.

All the concerns were valid. And there was a representative from the UKGC to say regulations are always being improved so these things can't happen. They also went into the figure quoted in the article in the OP in detail and explained why it was that way. I would not say it was as one sided and biased as people earlier on in the thread assumed.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

There seems to be an entirely coincidental split between folks who have a finger in the industry pie, and folks who don't, with regards to whether or not the programme was seen as fair and presented its arguments in a reasonable fashion.

 

[maxd]

There seems to be an entirely coincidental split between folks who have a finger in the industry pie, and folks who don't, with regards to whether or not the programme was seen as fair and presented its arguments in a reasonable fashion.

Assume for a moment that that is an entirely intentional state of affairs. Then ask yourself who would benefit from that.

 

[tazmart]

Personally, since I started playing online slots a few years ago I've never known it as bad as it is now. Game after game, at every site I play at, is playing worse this year than at any other time. In particular I've found the free spin rounds are playing worse than I've ever seen them, no matter what I play or where I play them.
My stats back this up, as I know every win I have made over £20, with both real and bonus money since I started, and this year is WAY down on all the previous years, despite playing the same games at the same sites (more or less). It's not just the stats because I didn't bother comparing them until I noticed the dramatic decline in the quality of the gameplay.
Some games and providers are worse than others, but sites that used to play fairly for me have suddenly got a lot worse. There are instances of games suddenly changing the way they play almost overnight, most notably with those games I played daily when you get to know how they play and what to expect.
I don't know if this is deliberate or something else, like having to change to HTML 5 maybe, which could be having a detrimental effect on the games. I'd like to know more about that.
I really don't think the Gambling Commission is doing it's job properly, otherwise how could the casinos or developers (or both) get away with it quite as blatantly as they appear to be?
I've never been into the conspiracy stuff, otherwise I'd never have started playing, or played for so long, but they way things have changed in the last 7 or so months has got me thinking about what's really going on.