Really Strange IGT VP Win? Or not?

[katodog]

My buddy sent this to me and said he held 2 deuces. Look at what came up. Is this given to you automatically? I find it hard to believe it was random.


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[chuchu59]

You will also notice that the remaining 2 deuces were given in the same order. I dont believe they are random.

 

[RobWin]

My buddy sent this to me and said he held 2 deuces. Look at what came up. Is this given to you automatically? I find it hard to believe it was random.


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Wow !!! Random Games huh...

I agree with Chu, it sure don't look too random to me either...katodog, what casino was your buddy playing at when he hit this ??

 

[1819]

You will also notice that the remaining 2 deuces were given in the same order. I dont believe they are random.

he held the 2's and hit draw for whatever reason. if it was pat all the 5th cards would be the same. they are not.

 

[Pocketdiggers77]

he held the 2's and hit draw for whatever reason. if it was pat all the 5th cards would be the same. they are not.

But according to the screen shot he only held two deuces and drew four deuces on five hands in the exact same order. Someone want to calculate the odds on that? They have to be phenomenal. I vote rigged.

 

[Simmo!]

I copied these posts into here for discussion cos its one of the oddest things I've ever seen if it's what it says it is. My thought initially was "doctored screenshot" but i'm not sure it is now looking at the reflections.

Although if i was a betting man ( ) I'd say the 4 deuces came up pat and the two "Held" indicators either didn't stick (malfunction) or have been cleverly removed for a bit of fun! And what are the little "20" symbols in the bottom left corner of each hand?

Fishy IMO

In fact the more i think about it, the reflections don't seem logical. Speculations?

 

[1819]

But according to the screen shot he only held two deuces and drew four deuces on five hands in the exact same order. Someone want to calculate the odds on that? They have to be phenomenal. I vote rigged.

my mistake. i was looking at the cards themselves for the "hold." have seen plenty of pat wins but never a "drawn pat." lol.

 

[katodog]

I know this guy very well.This is legit.He and his dad were playing at TIoga (sp) Racino in NY state. His dad took the pic. I asked him 10 times if he was dealt that. He said "no..I held 2 deuces and thats what came up.This is 120 percent legit!

 

[Simmo!]

I reckon the chances of that would be 1/47 * 1/46 to the power of 5, but I'm no mathematician.


By the way - slightly on-topic - here's a pat 4 deuces I got at the Venetian in Macau last month on Double Bonus poker

 

[katodog]

I just want an explanation for this. Was it an error by the machine? Was it a machine that maybe gives it to you automatically? I don't know. The odds of it being random like that are incalculable.

 

[katodog]

I copied these posts into here for discussion cos its one of the oddest things I've ever seen if it's what it says it is. My thought initially was "doctored screenshot" but i'm not sure it is now looking at the reflections.

Although if i was a betting man ( ) I'd say the 4 deuces came up pat and the two "Held" indicators either didn't stick (malfunction) or have been cleverly removed for a bit of fun! And what are the little "20" symbols in the bottom left corner of each hand?

Fishy IMO

In fact the more i think about it, the reflections don't seem logical. Speculations?

The 20's I believe are "20" coins per hand.Story is definately legit! His father (my boss and owner of the company I work for has confirmed this is how it happened.

 

[lancia]

I think the probability of this happening is (45/47 X 1/46 X 1/45) to the 5th power or 2.117E-17. That is, in the first position must be a card other than one of the remaining two deuces, so because 45 of the 47 remaining cards are non-deuces, the probability is 45/47. In the fourth position must be the one card, the deuce of hearts, so the probability is 1 divided by the remaining number of cards or 1/46. And in the last position must be the one card, the deuce of clubs, so the probability is 1 divided by the remaining number of cards or 1/45.

Now, the fourth position could have been occupied by the deuce of clubs and the last by the deuce of hearts in all 5 hands, and that too would have the same probability. So, the probability of exactly the same order of 4 deuces in positions 2, 3, 4, and 5, given a pair of deuces in their present positions on the draw, would be 2 X 45/47 X 1/46 X 1/45 to the 5th power or 4.234E-17, which equals 0.00000000000000004234.

 

[gerilege]

Something is odd.
The win should be 20000, and not 13255 for 5 times 4 deuces.
It seems to be 20 coins per hand. Then the paytable would be (for standard five coins per hand):
2500
1000
125
75
50
20
20
15
10
5
for a payout of 98,74%.
The odds for getting the remaining two deuces in the same order in the same position (card# 4,5) and getting the 3 of diamonds to card#1 in two hands are astronomical, I did not even bother to calculate it, as the win amount seems to be odd as well.
I would rather vote for some kind of display error, just like if not the two deuces were held, but it still does not explain the win amount.
I think we can't explain it only seeing the screenshot itself.

 

[katodog]

Something is odd.
The win should be 16000, and not 13255 for 5 times 4 deuces.
It seems to be 20 coins per hand. Then the paytable would be (for standard five coins per hand):
2500
1000
125
75
50
20
20
15
10
5
for a payout of 98,74%.
The odds for getting the remaining two deuces in the same order in the same position (card# 4,5) and getting the 3 of diamonds to card#1 in two hands are astronomical, I did not even bother to calculate it, as the win amount seems to be odd as well.
I would rather vote for some kind of display error, just like if not the two deuces were held, but it still does not explain the win amount.
I think we can't explain it only seeing the screenshot itself.

Actually he told me the pic was taken while the machine was "counting up". I asked the same thing. It was 5 winning hands x 4000 coins each.
For 20,000 coins.

 

[gerilege]

Actually he told me the pic was taken while the machine was "counting up". I asked the same thing. It was 5 winning hands x 4000 coins each.
For 20,000 coins.

I see. Thanks for the info. In that case the most likely explanation is a display error. Actually I believe he was dealt 4 deuces, but probably only 2 were displayed while 4 were auto-held. But after the draw all 4 auto-held deuces were displayed correctly. You might get 4 deuces for all 5 hands once in a lifetime when holding only 2, but not in the same order and position, that is simply impossible for a human being.

 

[chuchu59]

he held the 2's and hit draw for whatever reason. if it was pat all the 5th cards would be the same. they are not.

Yes, I understand that it was not pat. However, you will notice that for all the 5 hands, the drawn deuces are arranged in the same order throughout the 5 hands whereas if they were random they could go anywhere in the remaining 3 slots. The added possibility of this happening is 1/6x6x6x6x6 =
1 in a 7776 chance not to mention the faint chances of redrawing 2 deuces out of 3 cards on 5 hands.

 

[katodog]

I see. Thanks for the info. In that case the most likely explanation is a display error. Actually I believe he was dealt 4 deuces, but probably only 2 were displayed while 4 were auto-held. But after the draw all 4 auto-held deuces were displayed correctly. You might get 4 deuces for all 5 hands once in a lifetime when holding only 2, but not in the same order and position, that is simply impossible for a human being.

I can agree with that. That is a reasonable explanation.But its just weird.

 

[katodog]

I'll ask him tomorrow if the game had auto-hold. The way he explained it I was under the impression that he had to press hold manually. I'll ask him.

 

[gerilege]

I will calculate the probability tomorrow if that game does not have autohold.
If it has, but he still held some of the cards manually as well, then there's a second possible explanation.

 

[Mousey]

Looks like dealt pat deuces. However, if not.... Crazy weird if operating on RNG. While I've seen a card or two repeat in order on multiplay, never, ever, have I seen all hands duplicate multiple cards in the same order.

Are these racino slots/VP by chance bingo based machines? Or those silly VLT machines? (Damn things are rigged if you ask me. **mutter mutter mumble grumble**) They can turn up some really weird hands when it's your 'turn' to win.

 

[DarkMage]

I know this guy very well.This is legit.He and his dad were playing at TIoga (sp) Racino in NY state. His dad took the pic. I asked him 10 times if he was dealt that. He said "no..I held 2 deuces and thats what came up.This is 120 percent legit!

From what I know of the Racino's in NY....They are not RANDOM machines, they are the same thing as scratch-off cards. It is ILLEGAL to operate casino games in NYS. The REAL payback percentage in the Racino's for VP is only around 75%..

They are VERY deceptive about that fact! Most people are fooled to believe that the Racino's are "Random".

The Native American Casino's in NY are random however..(They are self-regulated...so who knows?)

 

[winbig]

I copied these posts into here for discussion cos its one of the oddest things I've ever seen if it's what it says it is. My thought initially was "doctored screenshot" but i'm not sure it is now looking at the reflections.

Although if i was a betting man ( ) I'd say the 4 deuces came up pat and the two "Held" indicators either didn't stick (malfunction) or have been cleverly removed for a bit of fun! And what are the little "20" symbols in the bottom left corner of each hand?

Fishy IMO

In fact the more i think about it, the reflections don't seem logical. Speculations?

Well, if you'll notice, the 3 of diamonds is in one of the other hands too. So I guess they stick cards back in the deck before drawing? That's BS, IMO.

 

[Zoozie]

From what I know of the Racino's in NY....They are not RANDOM machines, they are the same thing as scratch-off cards. It is ILLEGAL to operate casino games in NYS. The REAL payback percentage in the Racino's for VP is only around 75%..

They are VERY deceptive about that fact! Most people are fooled to believe that the Racino's are "Random".

The Native American Casino's in NY are random however..(They are self-regulated...so who knows?)

I believe this is the correct explanation. It may look like a VP machine, but it is a fruit slot with a very low payout. If you are dealth a PAT RF and you discard it, then you will be give another PAT RF back.

If you are dealth 4 dueces (which might not have been the case here), you can discard 2 of the dueces and you are sure that you will get them back again. (cards recycled). Everything is decided before you receive the cards and it this case it was decided that an *800 bet-size win was up. Then the machine finds card to represent this win. (Avoid at all costs as Vortran would say...)

I am trying to remember where I have read it. It could be Wizard of Odds. I will try look for a link.

 

[Mousey]

those VLT (Video LOTTERY Terminal) and bingo based machines are NOT properly random. If your particular deal is a winner in the system, you can throw away everything and still win. Won't play them, as proper VP strategy means absolutely nothing and VP is no better than slots at these joints. The race tracks in Alabama (where gambling is illegal ) has these weird types of machines. They give me the creeps.

 

[katodog]

I think you are all correct in that VLT'S are dodgy. I suspected it since the first time I played at a racino.

 

[RobWin]

those VLT (Video LOTTERY Terminal) and bingo based machines are NOT properly random. If your particular deal is a winner in the system, you can throw away everything and still win. Won't play them, as proper VP strategy means absolutely nothing and VP is no better than slots at these joints. The race tracks in Alabama (where gambling is illegal ) has these weird types of machines. They give me the creeps.

Mousey, have you ever tried those over at Quincys777 in Shorter, Al. ?? Also known as Victoryland.

 

[LaurieJim]

Well, if you'll notice, the 3 of diamonds is in one of the other hands too. So I guess they stick cards back in the deck before drawing? That's BS, IMO.

i agree, but it is one of the strangest shots i have ever seen...............laurie

 

[katodog]

Well, if you'll notice, the 3 of diamonds is in one of the other hands too. So I guess they stick cards back in the deck before drawing? That's BS, IMO.

I might be missing something Winbig. The 3 of diamonds can't come in more than once on your draw? If it was discarded that would be a problem. Please explain because I am currently having a brain-fart.

 

[katodog]

I will calculate the probability tomorrow if that game does not have autohold.
If it has, but he still held some of the cards manually as well, then there's a second possible explanation.

I just checked with him.The game was not autohold.

 

[gerilege]

I just checked with him.The game was not autohold.

Then that is not a random VP machine. I thought IGT does only have true VPs, but it seems that I was wrong.

 

[Mousey]

Mousey, have you ever tried those over at Quincys777 in Shorter, Al. ?? Also known as Victoryland.

Tried playing a few games ages ago...not at Victoryland though... the ones the Poarch Creek Indians run. A discard showed back up on the draw. Creeped me out and we left.

 

[spearmaster]

All it takes is a simple look at the payout to know that something is wrong.

4 deuces pays 4000. x5 hands that would be 20,000.

The payout is like 13265.

edit -> Ok, already covered LOL.

As far as I know, IGT only produces completely random machines. Thus this would be one of those extremely rare cases of being struck by lightning

 

[Mousey]

I swear.... I thought I'd seen somewhere that IGT makes VLT machines... but I will bow to Spear on this as my memory is that of a senile mouse.

What brands do make the VLT and bingo based machines that look like slots & VP? It's been too long since I've set foot into one of the joints, and I didn't pay any attention...

 

[katodog]

I swear.... I thought I'd seen somewhere that IGT makes VLT machines... but I will bow to Spear on this as my memory is that of a senile mouse.

What brands do make the VLT and bingo based machines that look like slots & VP? It's been too long since I've set foot into one of the joints, and I didn't pay any attention...

Yes there are several IGT Vlt's at my local Racino. Ten Times Pay,Triple/Double Dollar,Double Diamond,to name a few.

 

[spearmaster]

VLT slots, I agree - but can't say I've ever seen an IGT VLT video poker... I believe there are a few manufacturers of VLT-style video poker.

 

[GrandMaster]

I failed to find NY state gambling regulations, but I found a recent article about a proposal to allow video poker, which would imply that current machines cannot be genuine VP.

 

[brianzz]

URL Not Found / Outdated

IGT does make CDS video poker themes, as the website is ages behind I'm sure they also have multi-play CDS VP