QT????

[4 of a kind]

First of all charge backs are not automatically enforced regardless what it may be for. The credit card company will first ask you the reason over the phone. If they believe your complaint is justified they will charge back your funds from the merchant and hold the money in escrow pending an investigation.

The customer has to send a written statement explaining why they believe their entitled to a charge back. The credit card company then forwards a copy of this statement to the merchant, and gives the merchant a certain amount of time to respond. If they don't respond in the given time frame the customer automatically receives the full charge back, ending any further investigation.

If the merchant responds, then the credit card company sends a copy of that to the customer. The credit card company then makes a decision like an arbitrator. They may request additional information from either of the parties or just close the case and side with one or the other.

If charge backs were that easy to do, you would have a hard time getting merchants to except credit/debit cards in the first place.

The process I explained above was from my one and only personal experience about 7 years ago with a retail customer. In addition my response was extremely precise and detailed, and the credit card arbitrator sided with my company. The money was already returned to my account before they even notified me.

I doubt quicktender would want to respond explaining an illegal online gambling transaction, at least for USA customers.

I doubt this process has changed much since my experience, since I heard from others involved with similar charge back claims recently.

In addition, regardless who should win the case, the merchant will send documentation explaining their finding. I'm sure this document could be utilized to clear any negative reports being made against them.

 

[Nifty29]

Further to what Bryan said, if anyone is considering doing chargebacks PLEASE obtain PROFESSIONAL LEGAL ADVICE.

You may be risking your future ability to use credit cards.

Never make important decisions based on advice obtained from a forum.

 

[4 of a kind]

Further to what Bryan said, if anyone is considering doing chargebacks PLEASE obtain PROFESSIONAL LEGAL ADVICE.

There's really no need to pay legal fees, unless of course their is something illegal about USA/Gambling online transactions involving USA citizens.

You pretty much could request any charge back you feel is justified. It doesn't mean you'll automatically get your money back.

I read in many posts throughout the forum advising punters to obtain legal advice and or to pursue legal actions, as if the expense and time is meaningless. I agree if a punter was obviously screwed out of from around mid 5 digit to 6 digit figures, a lawyer might make sense. But if it's going to cost a couple of grand to retrieve a couple of grand, what's the purpose?

Good lawyers cost good money. Cheap lawyers usually end up costing good money cause they don't know what the hell their doing. The time lawyers spend researching the laws involved with your particular case is being charged and paid by your hourly fee to educate them further.

You would think that with all the past incidents involving online gaming and players their would be a good list of lawyers that specialize in this field being shared amongst the members. I don't recall one person ever making a recommendation for a lawyer by name. I know about that professor who specializes in online gaming laws "professor I. Nelson Rose" that's it. I guess he would be a real expensive retainer.

 

[The Dude]

The casinos and processors have placed US players in this situation. If they accept that they will never gamble online again, there is nothing to stop them using chargebacks as the CERTAIN way to get their money back.

They have already endured 2 months of lies and misdirection from EWX before it was admitted the money was seized, and that it is unlikely players will ever see it again. 2 months of lies and stalling tactics is all rather convenient given that after 60 days a charge cannot be disputed.

Now QT are using the same tactic of trickling out half-truths and misdirections, even telling players that they have plans to pay out if they can get Euro accounts, yet NOT seeming to be responding to communications from customers, nor giving them access to the website. It does seem that they are trying to stall so that 60 days passes, and then they will tell customers that many will NOT be seeing their money after all. Already they are saying that they CANNOT pay customers who's money has been seized, yet there is no PROOF that what has been seized is "their money", and the DoJ seem to be saying that they have seized COMPANY money, rather than CUSTOMER money, and will NOT be giving it back.

Maybe QT are concerned that chargebacks will be taken from active Ecocard company accounts, rather than the defunct QT. The artificial ringfencing of QT from the main Ecocard operation may NOT be reflected when it comes to the dispute and chargeback process, perhaps because the same banks are used, and will simply use "offset" if an inactive QT account receives a chargeback from the US banking system, which means they will simply take the money from one of the Ecocard accounts because it is all the same company.

The problem for US players is that this option is only open to them for 60 days, after which taking QT and other processors to court is not an option given the way everything has been set up.

Rambler got all his money back by being IMpatient with all the stalling from QT, and this at least means that QT no longer have to pay him to a Euro account, so no real loss to QT, as they fully intended to pay Rambler anyway, didn't they

Only Rambler stands to lose out, because he will now be on the blacklist of "evil players" because he charged back "thousands". This is ONLY going to be a problem if he continues to play online.

As far as UIGEA is concerned, it seems that banks are REQUIRED to recall transactions that are subsequently discovered to be illegal (or at least seem to believe they are). This happened to another player who disputed ONE charge with their bank, and the bank identified several other charges related to online gambling, and charged back ALL of them because they were illegal, even though the player didn't ask for this, and didn't even want this to happen.

Even if QT is hit by a wave of chargebacks, it is still only money they are on record as saying they fully intend to pay once arrangements have been made. Ecocard/QT will only really suffer if they lied about this, and were never going to be able to pay all the money promised, and were relying on most claimants simply giving up.

Casinos will also be hit, since Ecocard will then seek to make them repay those deposits, but the problem will be where QT never forwarded the money to the casinos in the first place, and will have to take the hit themselves since the casinos will have no liabilty to return charged back deposits they never received.

Casinos STILL trying to work within the US could be setting themselves up for another major "take down", which will hit them before they have managed to recover from the last. Players who start using the new deposit methods springing up also risk being caught up in yet another cycle of delays, lies, and disappearing money.

Sorry guy, you're wrong here and a lot of what you are saying is based strictly on speculation. I was contacted on the 18th of May by their CEO as they were finding out that there was a serious problem. On the 19th they published a statement that I posted here in the forum. The seizure by the feds hadn't been made clear to them yet. That was a little over a month ago yet you are going on about 60 days of lies. That's not cool.

I understand that this is a stressy situation, but to throw gas on a fire is unnecessary. The whole chargeback thing is dangerous advice, and it's nonsense. It's a webwallet that members made a purchase through, they purchased casino chips, right? And they got them and used them. That's it. They received what they purchased. The only way to get out of this (as far as I can tell) is to claim the credit card was stolen - which is BS.

If you don't have a clue on the consequences of a chargeback, then please don't suggest that members do so. Ending up on a "credit risk" list via Internet banking services may affect all purchases to include Amazon.com, booking flights at Expedia, booking a hotel at Hotels.com, and a myriad of other things. You don't know what the exact effect will be, so please don't suggest that members consider this as an option. Thanks!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry guy, you're wrong here and a lot of what you are saying is based strictly on speculation. I was contacted on the 18th of May by their CEO as they were finding out that there was a serious problem. On the 19th they published a statement that I posted here in the forum. The seizure by the feds hadn't been made clear to them yet. That was a little over a month ago yet you are going on about 60 days of lies. That's not cool.

I understand that this is a stressy situation, but to throw gas on a fire is unnecessary. The whole chargeback thing is dangerous advice, and it's nonsense. It's a webwallet that members made a purchase through, they purchased casino chips, right? And they got them and used them. That's it. They received what they purchased. The only way to get out of this (as far as I can tell) is to claim the credit card was stolen - which is BS.

If you don't have a clue on the consequences of a chargeback, then please don't suggest that members do so. Ending up on a "credit risk" list via Internet banking services may affect all purchases to include Amazon.com, booking flights at Expedia, booking a hotel at Hotels.com, and a myriad of other things. You don't know what the exact effect will be, so please don't suggest that members consider this as an option. Thanks!

I once had to dispute a charge on my credit card because it suddenly appeared from a merchant (a hotel chain) for a booking I did not make. The investigation took a month, and I got the money back. It didn't cause me the slightest of problems.

If the merchant in question "ripped off" the cardholder, there is no reason why the cardholder should not use their legal rights to get their money back. I don't see that online gambling should be a special case for which we should show "charity", as we are NOT "charities" but paying customers. How many times have casinos told players "we are not a charity" when the argument was the other way round.

Casinos have NO qualms about resolving a dispute by issuing a chargeback against a PLAYER, We have had numerous cases of casinos charging back monies already paid to Neteller and Moneybookers as a means of resolving a dispute, and we had Betfair charging back some €30K from the BANK account of a Portugese player, and getting away with it.

It doesn't matter how long the lies lasted, but when this happend, the FIRST priority of operators and eWallets was to save their OWN asses. Before EWX went down, and despite there clearly being problems, operators INSISTED on paying players back to EWX, money that they later lost, yet could have made it through to the player if the payment had been made by a safer means as requested by the player. With QT, we had players stalled for over a month, and then all of a sudden paid back to QT, but only when it was too late, QT had already been shut down. Had the payments been made on time, the players would have been able to withdraw from QT BEFORE the seizure, and will have gotten their money.

The CEO of QT may have contacted YOU, but customers are not getting anyware other than this complicated procedure of opening a Euro account. No other company shut down by the DoJ has asked players to do this, they have agreed a procedure with the DoJ to refund the money back to US players.
The DoJ has reopened the sites of 2 poker rooms seized so that US players can access their accounts and withdraw their money, so the DoJ are fully aware, and are prepared to cooperate, with the process of returning money to customer. There should be no reason for QT not being able to do the same.

US players have been hit REPEATEDLY, and have LOST their money repeatedly. No-one has yet seen a cent from EWX, so they are hardly going to believe QT when they are told they will eventually get their money.

Since chargeback involves an investigation and right of reply, it is NOT simply a matter of players "doing it". They have to make a case, and the merchant has a right to challenge it. If the bank sides with the customer, the chargeback will be on QT, and will be for money that they have already said they will pay back to a Euro account. For the US player, it is simply doing what the operators have done, namely putting the saving of their OWN ass first by using a procedure that gets the same result, but does NOT require them to mess around with offshore accounts and the IRS.

The banks will usually be able to offer advice in such cases, rather than simply filing the dispute. Since the banks operate the scheme, they should be best able to determine whether it is fair.

If players LIE to the banks, such as claiming the card was stolen when it wasn't, THIS is where it moves from someone exercising their legal right of redress as a customer, to using the system to defraud businesses.
I was basing my view on players admitting the TRUTH to their banks, and facing the prospect of NEVER being able to play online again, and maybe the bank, even the IRS, having a closer look at their past transactions.

I bet some players used the chargeback procedure to get their money out of EWX, and so far they would be the ONLY ones to have seen a cent of their money.

Only when QT actually start PAYING the money to US customers will we have evidence that they are sticking to their word, and should be given a chance.

I have always said that chargeback is the LAST resort, but it looks like this stage may have been reached with EWX already, and looks like being the case with QT.

Here in the UK, when a company folds and takes our money with it, we have a RIGHT to claim from the credit card issuer, as in law they are jointly liable. We can even claim the ENTIRE amount from the card issuer, even if only PART of the payment was made through them. An online company who's website no longer exists has "folded" in a strict legal sense, even though the people behind it still exist. The contract here would have been with QT the corporate entity, rather than it's CEO. QT only has a website, and now it has gone. We also have longer than 60 days to dispute a charge, so we are not so rushed into making a decision as US card holders. This is actually BETTER for all sides, as we can be more patient in trying to resolve a dispute through other channels, something the US 60 day window does not allow time for.

It's a "dog eat dog" world, especially on the internet, and there is no reason why the customer should ALWAYS back down from the corporate Rottweiller if they can get help from a couple of German Shepherds in the fight.

 

[4 of a kind]

There appears to be a lot more communication amongst members at the 2 plus 2 poker forum directly related to the QT issues. Some threads go over 90 pages deep. Reading the last few pages usually can bring you up on current events.

From what I gather there are several people trying to open off shore accounts to claim their cleared funds. Apparently so far no one was able to successfully achieve this being declined for one reason or another out of the USA. I'm sure if someone finds a way to successfully achieve an Euro account, that would be the first place to find out how to do it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

There appears to be a lot more communication amongst members at the 2 plus 2 poker forum directly related to the QT issues. Some threads go over 90 pages deep. Reading the last few pages usually can bring you up on current events.

From what I gather there are several people trying to open off shore accounts to claim their cleared funds. Apparently so far no one was able to successfully achieve this being declined for one reason or another out of the USA. I'm sure if someone finds a way to successfully achieve an Euro account, that would be the first place to find out how to do it.

This is the point, and I am sure QT knew damn well this would be a huge problem. If a customer cannot open a Euro account, what alternative suggestion is there other than to investigate known ways to get their money back that at least for one member DID work.
It's possible the banks know what is going on, and so are blocking all attempts by US citizens to open a Euro account.

QT should forget about their own asses, and come up with a more realistic solution that customers actually have a chance of succeeding with, and able to share the fact that they managed to get their money back.

I suspect the fact that 2+2 has so much more about this than here is that poker players have much more stuck in QT than casino players.

It would be worth US casino players reading these threads before deciding how to proceed, even if to avoid making the mistakes others made that lead to them getting turned down for Euro bank accounts.

Could QT not partner with a bank that is prepared to work with them and allow US customers to avail themselves of Euro accounts in order to get their money out?

QT were already partnering with banks in order to operate through Chargestream. US customers of these banks would of course be responsible for ensuring they declare them to the IRS as required by law.

Since no-one so far has succeeded in using the method dictated by QT to get their money out, and nothing else is on offer, it looks like there is no "honourable" method for these players to get their money out, which is why they need to consider ALL the options, even those who's morality is questionable.
After all, operators and processors do the same, and **** the morality.

I find it equally immoral for operators to chargeback a player's Neteller, Moneybookers, or even bank, just because they are in DISPUTE with the player. THEY don't follow proper procedure by arguing their case before an independent body, they just "smash & grab" for the money right away, and don't even have the decency to inform the player even AFTER the deed is done. At least when it is the other way around, the merchant has a right of reply, and this is BEFORE any money is moved.

 

[The Dude]

@VWM

You're applying what may happen in a UK bank to what happens in the States, which is comparing apples to suitcases. You're misleading US players into thinking contacting their banks and CC companies is an option. It's not.

@ everyone

US players were fully aware that there were issues concerning participating with online casinos. Setting up Euro accounts now is a bit late, but could have been doable with enough foresight. I haven't checked the threads at 2+2 lately, but you would think that a Canadian bank could have handled this.

 

[lnspin]

There appears to be a lot more communication amongst members at the 2 plus 2 poker forum directly related to the QT issues. Some threads go over 90 pages deep. Reading the last few pages usually can bring you up on current events.

From what I gather there are several people trying to open off shore accounts to claim their cleared funds. Apparently so far no one was able to successfully achieve this being declined for one reason or another out of the USA. I'm sure if someone finds a way to successfully achieve an Euro account, that would be the first place to find out how to do it.

You see thats the point. I have an offshore account, in euros, But yet i still cant get paid. I have contacted them many times, even so far as to contact ecocard and ask them to foward my emails and info. Of course on QT's side there is no response, and ecocard denies they know them or how to get in touch with them.

 

[lnspin]

@ everyone

US players were fully aware that there were issues concerning participating with online casinos. Setting up Euro accounts now is a bit late, but could have been doable with enough foresight. I haven't checked the threads at 2+2 lately, but you would think that a Canadian bank could have handled this.

@ Casinomeister. So if you do have a euro account, in a different country, how do you get paid. Since you seem to be able to contact them maybe you can ask them?

 

[The Dude]

@ Casinomeister. So if you do have a euro account, in a different country, how do you get paid. Since you seem to be able to contact them maybe you can ask them?

I have a Euro account because I'm in Europe

I'll shoot them an email to what's up.

 

[SlotsLover]

bank in USA

Can you also ask them if a US bank that takes Euro wires is ok, or if a US based account in Euros is ok as well or if we need a bank based outside the US?

Thanks.

I think QT is trying but I would really like if they were a bit more transparent and a bit clearer on how we (US players) can get our money.

Thanks for everything with this matter.

PS: Hear anything at all from EWX? EWX didn't seem to get as much press/forum talk as QT, but their site is at least still up.

 

[lnspin]

I have a Euro account because I'm in Europe

I'll shoot them an email to what's up.

Sorry, Cm, Didn't mean to question why you have a euro bank account....

Meant i have a euro account, but cant get any info from them on how to get paid to is as they never respond.

 

[vinylweatherman]

@VWM

You're applying what may happen in a UK bank to what happens in the States, which is comparing apples to suitcases. You're misleading US players into thinking contacting their banks and CC companies is an option. It's not.

@ everyone

US players were fully aware that there were issues concerning participating with online casinos. Setting up Euro accounts now is a bit late, but could have been doable with enough foresight. I haven't checked the threads at 2+2 lately, but you would think that a Canadian bank could have handled this.

It would seem that a small number of players have contacted their banks or card companies over this, and although it is risky, they have at least gotten their money back.

It also seems that the US banks know damn well this is going on, but turn a blind eye to it in many cases, as they will only get involved if it a "cut & dried case".

What are the actual risks for an ordinary US player coming clean to their banks about this in order to get out of online gambling altogether. The only real one I can see is an IRS audit for unpaid taxes, and it seems the IRS are already doing this anyway based on suspicion regarding "too many international wires".

This is even MORE damning for QT:-

You see thats the point. I have an offshore account, in euros, But yet i still cant get paid. I have contacted them many times, even so far as to contact ecocard and ask them to foward my emails and info. Of course on QT's side there is no response, and ecocard denies they know them or how to get in touch with them.

At last we have a player who HAS managed to get a Euro account, and all that has happened is that QT are now playing "talk to the hand" games.

Ecocard ARE connected, yet are prepared to act as "firewall" to stop US customers finding an alternative means to communicate with QT.

QT were clearly NOT geared up to actually PAY to Euro accounts, as none of this would be happening, and it would be a case of customers giving QT their Euro bank details, verification of these, and then payment.

QT of course knew that by the time they told customers they had to do this it was way too late. Banks have probably seen a sudden surge in US citizens applying for Euro accounts since this advice came through from QT, and are now blocking all such applications because they are pretty certain it is connected to UIGEA avoidance.

The DoJ already work to enable operators and processors give back money to US customers in the course of an exit from the US market. They did this with Neteller, and are doing so with two of the seized poker rooms. With the agreement and supervision of the DoJ, QT will have no trouble cashing out their customers in US Dollars to their home bank accounts.

There will already have been US players who have come clean to their banks and card companies, and others who have been "busted" by the same. Their experiences will be a guide to what REALLY happens once the banks and card companies know for certain that their customer has been gambling online with their product.

The main risk exposed so far has been closure of the account, but again with some preparation, inconvenience can be avoided by first opening an account with a different bank, and moving all non-gambling activities over to it before the original bank gets to know about the issue.

US players may have known the risks, but so did the operators and the processors who chose to get involved, so why should the player not do everything they can to mitigate their own risk, just as the processors and operators have done.

It's up to individual players to make themselves aware of the risks and rewards of each strategy, and make their own choice. Currently, the risk of doing nothing seems to be never seeing their money again, with all other options offering a chance to get some or all of that money back.

Given what has happened, can operators really justify creating ever more short term processors in order to carry on taking deposits, when it is clear that they cannot guarantee that players' money will be safe.

QT was marketed as "safe as houses" by casinos, and seemed to live a charmed life as it carried on processing whilst others were steadily targeted and shut down. If QT can get "busted" with players losing their money, then NO new solution can be considered worth the risk, and operators should give up for now, and put their efforts into marketing elsewhere, and lobbying for change in the US.

It seems that marketing is STILL being pushed into the US, as there are new US players who seem to have no idea how risky things have become, and are worried about minor issues such as how quickly documents get verified, as though having this done in 24 hours, rather than 72, is such an important factor when it comes to getting paid.

Even operators who have decided to pull out altogether have decided to sell their player base to other operations, rather than tell players the truth that it is so risky that they have given up serving them, and that they would be fools to play at somewhere even less experienced at handling these risks.

US players should get out now, move all their money back home while they still can, quit online gambling altogether, and start bothering their congressmen and senators over their excessive nannying, and point out that ordinary citizens have suffered MORE because of UIGEA than they ever did under the "wild west" nature of the industry in earlier years. As a protest they should quit ALL online gambling, including the "carve out" home based operations, and ONLY go to land based casinos.

 

[secret2]

I have tried to contact QT a few times but with no avail. What is the email address that seems to work?

It's regarding the chargebacks from my 'cleared' available funds at QT.

 

[lnspin]

I have tried to contact QT a few times but with no avail. What is the email address that seems to work?

It's regarding the chargebacks from my 'cleared' available funds at QT.

There is no address that they will reply to.

Did hear from others that they will put there site back online on the 1st, and those with euro accounts can try to cash out.

Lets see if they really do,

Me personally i just think there buying time, as once we submit a withdrawal to our euro accounts, we will be delayed for another 2 weeks or so while they say they are processing them, then just up and disappear.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It seems some customers have been sent a more detailed email about this. QT will be up on 1st July and remain until 15th August. US players have until 15th August to set up their Euro account and request a withdrawal. Indications are that after 15th August, US customers will no longer be able to request their money.

It also seems that many offshore banks specifically exclude US customers unless they are of considerable net worth, and even then they have "restricted" accounts. It seems the US government have managed to stop it's citizens from having the freedom to have banking services outside the US that those of us in the UK take for granted. If you have €100,000 to invest, no problem, you will get your Euro account.

Because of this, the 15th August deadline is unrealistic, and QT may end up keeping much of the money unless they agree to another way to request withdrawals that does not involve the website.

It also seems that support staff have been specifically instructed NOT to engage in communications with customers of the Quicktender subsidiary, which would explain why all emails are being ignored at the moment.

This comes from the 2+2 forum, where many players have considerable sums at stake, and are engaging in a much more lively discussion.

There is even a thread discussing whether or not it is right to use chagebacks to retrieve money from QT. One post outlines the risk of lying to the bank about the reasons for making the claim, as it could open you to charges of perjury since a legal statement has to be signed and sworn as part of the process.
There is also a post on how processing works, and this suggests that some of the recently deposited money may never have reached QT in the first place, but is stuck with it's processor. If this happened to be Linwood, the government still have it, and never sent it. Processors also keep back a reserve of the clients money to cover chargebacks, and every month will forward the net proceeds less charges to the client. In the case of QT, this would suggest that monies deposited in May would have been forwarded less fees some time at the end of June, and since QT died before this, the processor still has this money, but nowhere to send it to unless QT gives them the details of a new account now being used.

The two opposing camps are:-

1) Ethical - players shouldn't resort to charging back as they did at least get e-money credits in their QT accounts, even though they later turned out to be worthless.

2) Sod the morals - this camp notes the fact that morality played little part in decisions made by the processors, which was to save their own asses, and "sod the customer". This camp are arguing about the risks involved, and how one might make a chargeback, but at the same time do so in a way that avoids the need to lie in a sworn statement to the bank. They argue that since QT will ignore the chance to contest the chargeback, it will go through unchallenged by the merchant, and thus it will be easier.

It does seem now that QT are on record as saying they will put the site back up on 1st July, and this will enable customers to log on, check their statements, and request the withdrawal of their balances to a Euro account.

No-one can say for certain whether this is just another stalling tactic or even a lie until 2nd July is with us.

Discussion of just how to successfully open a Euro account is beginning to look more promising, and it may turn out that some banks will be found that WILL accept applications from "ordinary Americans" that do not have tens of thousands of dollars to invest, or are not high powered international business people.

A few already have the required Euro accounts, so it won't be long before QTs promise is put to the test.

 

[The Dude]

Sorry, Cm, Didn't mean to question why you have a euro bank account....

My attempt at humor.

They are in the process of emailing their customers and will able to process payments into Euro accounts beginning Friday.

 

[lnspin]

My attempt at humor.

They are in the process of emailing their customers and will able to process payments into Euro accounts beginning Friday.

Good news, Heard a few got emails, but i haven't yet. Hopefully there not just processing people with small balances.

 

[anniemac]

Good for QT that they are going to be up and running on the 1st but that still doesn't tell US players just how they are suppose to get a Euro bank account.

I checked out the sites that were posted by another regarding getting foreign bank accounts. I didn't see anything that would really work for US players.

Something really, really stinks about this.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Good for QT that they are going to be up and running on the 1st but that still doesn't tell US players just how they are suppose to get a Euro bank account.

I checked out the sites that were posted by another regarding getting foreign bank accounts. I didn't see anything that would really work for US players.

Something really, really stinks about this.

I have had a look round from here in the UK, and it seems that what QT are asking their customers to do just doesn't exist.

ALL "international" bank accounts, even those advertised as "every day" ones designed for people who want accounts to make international travel easier, are designed for the RICH. There is NOTHING that the "average joe" will ever qualify for, simply because the banks are not interested in ordinary people. The "everyday" accounts are designed for business travellers, investors, and those intending to retire overseas.

The ONLY way to get an "average joe" account is to fly over here, have a permanent UK address, and be able to supply documents to back it all up.

The lowest criteria is an opening deposit of £25,000 for a current account, but a savings account may be possible for as little as £5000 (or currency equivalent).

The only way around all of this is to be "introduced" to the bank, similar to how you were all "introduced" to QT, rather than simply being able to apply yourself.

Even if you ARE rich enough to qualify, they STILL need verification of the source of this money, and of other monies that might be paid in, and telling the truth is probably not an option.

In a nutshell, the only way players are going to be able to get a Euro account by 15th August is to misinform the bank during the application process, for example, say you are going to move over here and want to be able to function financially, buy property, etc.

There doesn't even seem to be anything for those who just want an extended holiday over here, and want a local Euro account just for a month or two (unless you are planning to spend some 25K during this holiday).

If you already bank with a US branch of a major EU based bank, they may waive these criteria and open the account through the US subsidiary. This might be the best solution to try, but may be vetoed by QT as not a "proper" solution.

The poker players with large balances stuck have a much easier solution. Many WILL have enough to meet the eligibilty wealth requirements, and they can quite truthfully say they are a professional poker player who competes in many tournaments around the world, and wants to manage their bankroll in an international account that seamlessly works across currencies. Since professional poker is perfectly legal here and in much of the EU, even on the internet (not that US applicants should ever mention this - stick to B & M tournaments), there are no laws being broken, and the only issue will be ensuring the proper declarations are made to the IRS.

For the VERY wealthy poker player, they can say they have decided to "retire" to the south of France (for example) and have a substantial "retirement pot" that they need available in Euros, and through local banking.

For those with less than this available to use as an opening deposit, it would seem impossible for them to open a Euro account remotely from the US.

I can't see how QT could NOT know this when they put together this solution, they could have asked THEIR bank as to how a US customer of theirs could get an "everyday" Euro account so that QT could pay them.

This looks like a ticking timebomb, and unless a solution is found quickly, there will be an angry majority seeing 15th August looming, with no possible way to comply with QT's insistence that they get a Euro account.

QT should quicky reassure these customers that they money will NOT simply disappear on the 16th August, but that it will be placed in escrow somewhere pending an eventual solution to this dilemma.

QT could also look at "introducing" their customers to a partner bank who would be happy to allow former QT customers to have a Euro account in principle, and just require them to follow normal verification procedures, with no automatic barring just because they are not wealthy enough for a proper "offshore account".

I am sure a close eye will be kept on the process of paying those who HAVE managed to open a Euro account, and perhaps once they have their money safe & sound, they could tell other US players how they managed to open the Euro account, and where; what problems they encountered, and how the overcame them.

In contrast, it seems I could have a Euro account for myself in 20 minutes or less, and over the internet, simply by having accounts with the UK arm of the international banking conglomerates.

If QT would permit the use of "partners", in other words, third party "for the benefit of" Euro accounts, then EVERYBODY could be paid once they had found themselves a "partner" prepared to sponsor them.

There ARE other solutions that avoid the need to transact in the US Dollar. This could be as simple as placing the money on a gift card and posting it. Although this would not be cash, but a card only redeemable for "shopping", it would be better than no money at all.

 

[felicie]

Really interesting and maybe as the days go by we'll see a clearer path to what they're up to. lol Like you said VWM qt could not possibly Not know this. Thanks

 

[Novemberlady1]

QT

Really interesting and maybe as the days go by we'll see a clearer path to what they're up to. lol Like you said VWM qt could not possibly Not know this. Thanks

I think they intended all the time to keep money from US players

 

[MaryJean]

EURO BANK ACCOUNTS

Just another note:

While 'foreign' bank accounts are not illegal for US citizens the IRS has declared that they must be declared to them in Detroit Michigan by tomorrow, June 30, 2011!

I understand there are very stiff penalties if the declarations are not in their hands by tomorrow night.

This even includes bank accounts that are not actually yours but that you might have been included as an additional signature in case of death of a family member.

So----proceed only at your own risk.

 

[anniemac]

HSBC has international banking for US citizens. Only problem is - you got to maintain a balanace of $100,000. LOL!

You think QT might have an idea that there is going to be a very small portion of their customer base that would fit this profile?

 

[Rambler]

Hoffmeister???

If you are Owed money and defrauded, daft is to say my AMEX Black went pink and can't get credits from my Greecian bankers. There is no fraud when charging back the dollar or two, lol, I put in. You lost in jargo/ limbo Jedi wannabe. Your hat is floating my friend and thanks for the decade of decadence you provided, akin to a Disco Beer Swaggerring Liberace/ John Wayne type.

Okay my Meathead is calling me an ass and why did I forget to be kind to others; like the day they ripped Granpa and Grams US Of A off and you said nothing (flashback to I dependence Day---Jewish gramps confronts President for knowing nothing of Aliens and Area 51.

Also, I never used a chargeback until I saw I was being fleeced and my BANK encouraged me to charge back to QT to help stop fraud. Bryan you forgot your roots and haven't lived here in a while. Enjoy drowning yourself in the beerstein the size of the keg you wished you had in admitting QT got one passed you.

You are giving some extremely bad advice here, and I hope no member here is daft enough to follow it. Making a charge back is fraud and those charging back are placed on a blacklist that has NOTHING to do with off shore entities, but with global credit card companies. If players make a chargeback, they can probably kiss their chances of using a credit card ANYWHERE online again.

 

[The Dude]

If you are Owed money and defrauded, daft is to say my AMEX Black went pink and can't get credits from my Greecian bankers. There is no fraud when charging back the dollar or two, lol, I put in. You lost in jargo/ limbo Jedi wannabe. Your hat is floating my friend and thanks for the decade of decadence you provided, akin to a Disco Beer Swaggerring Liberace/ John Wayne type.

Okay my Meathead is calling me an ass and why did I forget to be kind to others; like the day they ripped Granpa and Grams US Of A off and you said nothing (flashback to I dependence Day---Jewish gramps confronts President for knowing nothing of Aliens and Area 51.

Also, I never used a chargeback until I saw I was being fleeced and my BANK encouraged me to charge back to QT to help stop fraud. Bryan you forgot your roots and haven't lived here in a while. Enjoy drowning yourself in the beerstein the size of the keg you wished you had in admitting QT got one passed you.

Eh?

Sorry, but your logic fails to make any sense whatsoever. If you are attempting to make a personal attack, please take it elsewhere. I don't have the time or patience to deal with nonsense.

I need to remind you that I don't work for QT - I am passing on info when I get it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just another note:

While 'foreign' bank accounts are not illegal for US citizens the IRS has declared that they must be declared to them in Detroit Michigan by tomorrow, June 30, 2011!

I understand there are very stiff penalties if the declarations are not in their hands by tomorrow night.

This even includes bank accounts that are not actually yours but that you might have been included as an additional signature in case of death of a family member.

So----proceed only at your own risk.

I think this is nothing more than normal procedure, the same as over here. If you open Euro accounts after today to receive QT payments, you will have to delare these to the IRS by June 30th 2012, again nothing more than "normal procedure".

You have all probably realised that these offshore products are designed for the wealthy client as a "tax favourable way to invest", so the fact that the IRS wants to know so much about them is because of their potential for tax evasion on a grand scale, rather than the potential for their use for online gambling.

It shouldn't be a problem once you get a Euro account, just a matter of filing the information with the IRS, and paying the taxes when due.

The REAL problem is getting a Euro account when you are NOT a wealthy investor.

What is lacking is "bog standard" banking for the "average joe" wanting a way to have Euros at hand for an extended holiday over here. It seems the ONLY way is to apply in person, either once you are here, or at a US branch of the bank you want to use.

The only other option I can think of is Canada, and the CAD$. This too will avoid having to transact US$ with the risk that the money will again be seized, and QT could always argue that exchange fees are the players' responsibilty. They would wire in Euros to a Canadian bank, who will convert it to CAD$.
Whilst you may still have to apply in person, Canada is much more convenient for this that Europe, especially for those living in the northern states. Asking for a Euro account in a Canadian bank may cause questions to be asked, but asking for CAD$ for a visit there later in the year should not be such an issue in the same way that asking for a Euro account for a visit to Europe shouldn't be an issue, it's just that the banks are not interested in the "average joe" as a customer for this.

 

[Rambler]

No Logic, Just Opinion on Steriods

Bryan, You said you knew the CEO of QT and posted with authority. I am not being ambiguos, but you are becoming or have the credibitity of a looneytoones character. I am looking out for US player and was warned by a staff member about a Sixty Day Time Chargeback Window for QT for those owed money by said operation; where were you? Sucking the suds with duds on the Emerald Isle. Enjoy your little world before it gets taken down by Holder.

Nothing personal Bryan, just business for those owed renumeration and how to collect it before the crows.

Eh?

Sorry, but your logic fails to make any sense whatsoever. If you are attempting to make a personal attack, please take it elsewhere. I don't have the time or patience to deal with nonsense.

I need to remind you that I don't work for QT - I am passing on info when I get it.

 

[The Dude]

Bryan, You said you knew the CEO of QT and posted with authority. I am not being ambiguos, but you are becoming or have the credibitity of a looneytoones character. I am looking out for US playets and was warned by a staff member about a Sixty Day Time Chargeback Window for QT for those owed money by said operation; where were you? sucking suds in duds. Enjoy your little world before it gets taken down by Holder.

Again, I don't have the time or patience with personal attacks. Do it again and see what happens.

I gave the advice that to make a chargeback without knowing fully what the consequences are is daft. That's my advice. You can either accept that advice and take it into consideration, or ignore it and do what you want. You are an adult - make an adult decision.

 

[4 of a kind]

Thought this was an interesting section in the Terms and Conditions of QuickTender.

12. Dispute Resolution

12.1. This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the Republic of the Marshall Islands. The Parties hereto agree that any disputes arising hereunder shall be litigated in the Marshall Islands Courts; the Parties hereto expressly consent to the jurisdiction of any such courts and to venue therein. The prevailing Party in any such action shall be entitled to the recovery of its reasonable attorney’s fees and court costs.

12.2. If there is a dispute between QuickTenderCard Holders, QuickTender Ltd and its affiliates and partners are under no obligation to become involved. If QuickTenderCard Holder has a dispute with one or more other QuickTenderCard Holders, QuickTender Ltd, its officers, employees, agents and successors have to be hereby released from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential) of every kind or nature, known or unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way related to such dispute.

16. Limitation of Liability

In no event shall QuickTender Ltd, its affiliates and its partners be neither held responsible nor liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, incidental, exemplary, special, punitive or other damages arising out of or relating in any way to the Service, the QuickTender Website, content or information contained within the Website, products purchased using the Service, and/or any other related services, including without limitation, damages for loss of use or data, arising out of or in any way connected with the use or performance of the Service or the Website. Your sole remedy for dissatisfaction with the QuickTender Website and/or the Service is to stop using the Website and/or the Service. Your sole remedy for dissatisfaction with goods or services you purchase using the Service is to contact the Merchant and attempt to resolve the dispute. In no event shall the total liability of QuickTender Ltd to QuickTenderCard Holder for all damages in any one or more cause of action exceed the sum of the QuickTenderCard Holder’s current QuickTenderCard balance less any changes due and payable to QuickTender Ltd. You agree to indemnify and hold QuickTender Ltd, its subsidiaries, shareholders, affiliates, directors, officers and employees harmless against any claim, demand, loss, or damage (actual and consequential) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, including reasonable attorneys' fees, asserted by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Service or your conduct on the Website.

 

[4 of a kind]

I also understand that for players to make a claim against the government for uncleared funds, they would need a copy of QT's terms and conditions. Here's a link which was posted at 2 plus 2 of QT's complete terms and conditions if anyone needs them. Might take a few seconds to download.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thought this was an interesting section in the Terms and Conditions of QuickTender.

12. Dispute Resolution

12.1. This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the Republic of the Marshall Islands. The Parties hereto agree that any disputes arising hereunder shall be litigated in the Marshall Islands Courts; the Parties hereto expressly consent to the jurisdiction of any such courts and to venue therein. The prevailing Party in any such action shall be entitled to the recovery of its reasonable attorney’s fees and court costs.

12.2. If there is a dispute between QuickTenderCard Holders, QuickTender Ltd and its affiliates and partners are under no obligation to become involved. If QuickTenderCard Holder has a dispute with one or more other QuickTenderCard Holders, QuickTender Ltd, its officers, employees, agents and successors have to be hereby released from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential) of every kind or nature, known or unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way related to such dispute.

16. Limitation of Liability

In no event shall QuickTender Ltd, its affiliates and its partners be neither held responsible nor liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, incidental, exemplary, special, punitive or other damages arising out of or relating in any way to the Service, the QuickTender Website, content or information contained within the Website, products purchased using the Service, and/or any other related services, including without limitation, damages for loss of use or data, arising out of or in any way connected with the use or performance of the Service or the Website. Your sole remedy for dissatisfaction with the QuickTender Website and/or the Service is to stop using the Website and/or the Service. Your sole remedy for dissatisfaction with goods or services you purchase using the Service is to contact the Merchant and attempt to resolve the dispute. In no event shall the total liability of QuickTender Ltd to QuickTenderCard Holder for all damages in any one or more cause of action exceed the sum of the QuickTenderCard Holder’s current QuickTenderCard balance less any changes due and payable to QuickTender Ltd. You agree to indemnify and hold QuickTender Ltd, its subsidiaries, shareholders, affiliates, directors, officers and employees harmless against any claim, demand, loss, or damage (actual and consequential) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, including reasonable attorneys' fees, asserted by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Service or your conduct on the Website.

Well, they ARE liable for the balance still in the account, which is what this fuss is all about.

Since you have already confided in your bank about this, you should ask them what is the LATEST you can leave it to ask formally for a "chargeback" as a resolution, and you should also tell them that QT have now offered to give you the money provided you open a Euro account in which to receive it.

In particular, what your bank has to say about the Euro account solution will be of interest to others facing the same dilemma, and who have yet to find a way to open one. What they say may even reveal a way to open a Euro account that has not become obvious so far.

Since QT are at least making an effort, the bank will NOT proceed with a chargeback request if there is any chance the plan offered by QT is viable. This is the case for ALL chargebacks, which merchants can avoid simply by refunding the money in dispute to the customer.

 

[Rambler]

Read and Approved

The secret to everything lies within the facility many pee on a toilet/ urinal as a duty, fact of nauture normlcy or all the above.

 

[Nifty29]

The secret to everything lies within the facility many pee on a toilet/ urinal as a duty, fact of nauture normlcy or all the above.

What's wrong Rambler?

Don't have the guts to leave your attacks on Bryan in your post? You don't even have the courage of your own convictions.

LOL@you.

 

[The Dude]

The secret to everything lies within the facility many pee on a toilet/ urinal as a duty, fact of nauture normlcy or all the above.

Like I said - I don't have the time or patience to deal with your nonsense. You were warned. Bye.

 

[4 of a kind]

Since you have already confided in your bank about this, you should ask them what is the LATEST you can leave it to ask formally for a "chargeback" as a resolution, and you should also tell them that QT have now offered to give you the money provided you open a Euro account in which to receive it.

I haven't spoke to anyone in my bank. I had nothing tied up in QT. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[alfred666]

Quicktender.com just came back online again.
Was able to log into my account.

Good luck to all of you to get your funds out!

 

[ssd]

I am able to login now too, but there is no place to change my banking info. After logging in I can see my funds but above in red it says "Note: Your access to the service is currently VIEW ONLY"

 

[weplant]

I was also able to log in and saw funds..It says for viewing only..So are they just giving us one last chance to say "goodby" to our money???????

 

[bpb]

I would suggest that both of you read the last email sent to you by Quicktender. The instructions for withdrawing are very explicit and clear.

 

[nikkidog]

OT

Where do you go to log in. The QT site that I have on favorites, still comes up stating that they are down

 

[BingoT]

Abby14 we are in the US so we are blocked.

I can get to it but the password does not work & if you do the forgot password you get this.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"Please follow further instructions
Your QuickTender account is currently locked. Please contact the QuickTender Support Team for assistance."

 

[lnspin]

Abby14 we are in the US so we are blocked.

I can get to it but the password does not work & if you do the forgot password you get this.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"Please follow further instructions
Your QuickTender account is currently locked. Please contact the QuickTender Support Team for assistance."

I get same thing, thought it was only me because i complained too much

 

[SlotsLover]

try again

I just logged into my QT account and I'm in California.

Now, the hard part is to get a Euro account!

 

[nikkidog]

OT

So,because we are in the USA we will not be able to log in and at least have a chance to get our money. There is a player who lives in the USA and and was able to log into her QT account and withdraw her money in Euros to her bank. Now waiting to see if she will get it.

 

[samoas]

Abby14 we are in the US so we are blocked.

I can get to it but the password does not work & if you do the forgot password you get this.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"Please follow further instructions
Your QuickTender account is currently locked. Please contact the QuickTender Support Team for assistance."

I hesitated from posting early in this morning. I know my password is correct, yet I continue to get the "contact support" message due to my password rejection. Contacted support and no response as of yet.

 

[Nifty29]

So,because we are in the USA we will not be able to log in and at least have a chance to get our money. There is a player who lives in the USA and and was able to log into her QT account and withdraw her money in Euros to her bank. Now waiting to see if she will get it.

QT has expressly stated funds will only be sent in Euros to non-US bank accounts.

So your friend will have their request rejected, unless they do have such an account.

Why is it that nobody listens? It has been posted here over and over and an email has been sent from QT but still there are people who......oh never mind I give up.

 

[ksech]

QT has expressly stated funds will only be sent in Euros to non-US bank accounts.

So your friend will have their request rejected, unless they do have such an account.

Why is it that nobody listens? It has been posted here over and over and an email has been sent from QT but still there are people who......oh never mind I give up.

It's because they are in denial and they need someone to blame besides themselves. The writing has been on the wall for months and months yet they continue to play and "trust" in ewallets. The risk takers will continuously come here to bitch about being ripped off by such and such casino or ewallet, etc. After EWX went down, people continued to trust in QT (apparently none went through the NeTeller fiasco) and kept funds in their accounts. Now, they have money sitting that can't be collected, BUT they will choose to continue finding ways to play and "risk" their money by using any means they deem necessary.

I wish I had funds I could let wallow in a defunct ewallet. At least QT is trying to find a remedy, whereas NeTeller was totally uncommunicative. I'm sure we will start hearing about more and more 'rogush" ewallets as they know people will be looking for ways to skirt the system and the complaints will surely follow...

 

[nikkidog]

OT

She said that she contacted her bank and they will accept funds in Euros. They gave her all the information she needed to process the withdrawal. Well we will she if she gets it. Do you think there will ever be a way for us in the USA to to get our funds from QT.