Providers moving the goal posts

[LoopsterAU]

Ok I was tempted to write something here a couple of weeks ago when I first found out the info but didn't and now that I am reading more and more comments about how many agree it's not random I thought it's time to finally post this.

Not going to mention which casino it happened at (this isn't the first time it has happened either btw) but after making a deposit and claiming a bonus I went into some new Isoftbet game but the game didn't load, only had a black box across the screen where the game should be.

Normally in a case like this I would just refresh the page and the game would load on the second time (would but out of curiosity I decided to right click and go view source. Within the javascript code I found all of these things as variables that the game checks.

USERID
NAME
DEPOSIT_COUNT
BALANCE_REAL
BALANCE_BONUS
LAST_FAILED_DEPOSIT_VALUE
COUNTRY
BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG
PENDING_WITHDRAWAL
LAST_LOGIN
REGISTRATION_DATETIME
TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE

Now from my understanding this particular site uses Isoftbet for a lot of their games because even from over providers because the ones from other providers have ISB at the end of the URL so in this particular case it seems like this code itself is from the casino's player tracking management interface. It is also strange how sometimes no matter what game you play you will at best win your money back before it just takes it all and at other times no matter which game you jump on you simply cant stop winning. I put this down to the API between the casino and the providers which puts you into different RTP versions of games depending on some of these flags on your account.

It does also confirm some tin foil suspicions people have mentioned in other threads in the past.

Playing with a big bonus and nowhere near wagering, here's some wins to show you that games can pay = BALANCE_BONUS

While we used to be able to play Microgaming in Australia so many people would post on here from other countries how its so hard to win there anymore, certainly didn't feel that way for us Aussies = COUNTRY

99 times out of 100 if you have withdrawals on the way and keep reversing some of that balance to try win more you end up losing = PENDING_WITHDRAWAL

Haven't played in a very long time at the casino having spent a lot in the past and magically you start winning again on every game = LAST_LOGIN, REGISTRATION_DATETIME, TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE

I never ever want to hear people try and tell me it is 100% random ever again because if it really was 100% random then a player could have that lucky feeling and end up betting very aggressively raising bets at all the right moments potentially bankrupting some of the smaller casino's who allow ridiculous bets like $500 per spin despite not having anywhere near the sort of cash to pay someone hitting a 500x on that bet size.

 

[Guntis]

I have increased my stakes the bonus rounds just disappear and yeah if you do hit one it pays nothing special.

It seems like my balance is only allowed between certain parameters. Try and push it over that and I am guaranteed to lose.

I can confidently say about such events on Lucky Lady Cham (Novomatic slot) which I have played a lot before.

Knowing this games potential, my target was to get at least one bonus. I used to deposit £400 and normally played using progressive betting: 1st 100 spins at £0.80, then 2nd 100 spins at £1, then 100 at £1.5 and next 100 (if I didn't get the bonus yet) I played at £2 per spin.

From my gaming experience, I noticed that on this game, for 90% of the time, the bonus game comes in within 400 spins. If I get the bonus - I stop and don't play it any more.

As long as I played at these stakes always everything seemed quite natural! Sometimes I won - having good bonuses with the retrigger and sometimes I lost - if the bonus was without the retrigger and paid less than 100x. But nothing wrong with that - it's part of the gambling and I'm happy with that.

Playing this game for around 5 years I knew very well what to expect and keeping to my usual strategy, I also played at much higher stakes like 5, 8, 10 and £15 per spin and guess what? In the bonuses, I NEVER had the retrigger and winnings were as a rule between 20-30x (maximum 50x) of my bet which made me lose lots of money...

(F... knows, maybe I'm just a loser and that random stuff is always against me...).

Losing a ton of money I used to come back to this game after a month or so and starting again with my 0.8, 1, 1.5 and £2 per spin and everything used to come back to the normal routine - the game gives retriggers and the big wins.

Anyone who has good attention and brain will notice this pattern playing this game.

And whoever created this game was a genius because such games behaviour makes the gambler to come back given a belief that there - he can win!

Probably, even a horse would see that nothing is random here (at least at this game).

 

[snorky510238]

I used to wonder why providers churn out so many shite games. One after the other and seemingly just the same as something we had seen before.

I now think one of the biggest reasons is to keep players on the move so we never play one game for too long. This prevents people from getting used to a normal pattern and becoming over familiar with a game.

The problem for them is some of us do play certain games religiously and pay attention to detail and are not as stupid as they take us for.

You can listen to the purists all you want about how each spin is random etc, etc but even if it is there will be other unknown agenda tied in that we know nothing about.

Controlling the win/per stake ratio, selecting different reels for bonus rounds, the ways in which our slotting is controlled is endless.

As players there are a million and one ways to get shafted but people say why would providers do that when they have the edge anyway? The answer is simple because they can.

Here is another thing to consider. Even if the rtp of games is checked and regulated (cough splutter) if something was found to be severely amiss you would never hear about it. It would open a can of worms and replacing the lid would be impossible.

Think about all the games and all the Casinos out there and you can tell me they all run perfectly within their boundaries all of the time. They either aren’t checked in the way we are led to believe or they are told to put it right within a certain timeframe or it gets brushed under the carpet.

It could never be announced publicly if anything was found to be out of order because of the implications that would follow. The damage to the industry would be colossal and in a lot of cases irreparable.

Imagine regulators finding a game had been running well below its rtp for a said amount of time. They couldn’t publicly announce that anyone who has played this game for the last 6 months should be refunded could they because it would be an impossible task and again tarnish the industry.

What I have seen in the past 5 months has left me with no doubt that online gambling isn’t anywhere near 100% straight, not that I ever thought it was but up until then it seemed around 80 odd percent which I could live with. Now it seems more like 50% which I can’t live with.

For that reason I am walking away from it. Now seems the right time, what with Videoslots slots shaving rtp (and others will follow) the undoubted fact that games are tampered with so you never know what you are getting from day to day etc. I have decided to quit because the bitter taste has become so bad I am finding it hard to swallow.

Amen.

 

[Bloatgoat]

USERID
NAME
DEPOSIT_COUNT
BALANCE_REAL
BALANCE_BONUS
LAST_FAILED_DEPOSIT_VALUE
COUNTRY
BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG
PENDING_WITHDRAWAL
LAST_LOGIN
REGISTRATION_DATETIME
TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE

Bonus Abuser Flag... Lol wtf. I knew they track data of their players but being flagged? I recently won 65k at another casino and it was or still is VERY hard to even be ahead on my latest gameplay. I'm talking depositting, and leaving with a profit in comparison to deposit / take a loss or deposit and play even / take the money. No matter what i do i never seem to pass this certain ceiling that's on my account. I jumped to another casino, verified my details at first, depositted 100, and kicked it within 30 minutes to like 8000 euro.

After that, same behaviour. No game in the casino at all would trigger. Not followed by weeks, several deposits. And yes i do agree if that there is mistakes or faults made, it will never be put public, because it would not be in the interest of the casino.

I feel some games are always within a 'checkerboard' of the upper ceiling on the win vs betsize. If you play long enough you'll understand the game better and better. I do believe that there is a AI working with or against you, based on your 'past'. Some bets are too obvious and the reward is too obvious as well. I deposit 50, at 9 out of 10 times i win an equal amount back with a upper ceiling (i.e 97% ~ on my initial deposit) and once i go bigger the amount seems to be more widen. But in almost all general cases, you hit a ceiling and head straight down. Nobody is going to deposit 50, withdrawl 49 if you know what i mean. Waste of transaction.

I get kind of sick seeing my girlfriend's favorite (non-gambling) game being bombarded with advertorials within the game, about how easy making money is with gambling. It's just a pyramid scheme where the losses of other players are being distributed among new players or newcomers to gambling, to make 'm feel comfertable and more easy with gambling.

I'm glad that other people came open here, with their views. I was bashed by several users here who claimed everything was all random. Well slowly we're getting there that there is something like a hidden agenda by now, and that casino's are not what they seem they are anymore. @trancemonkey are you reading the last few posts in this thread? Enlighten on us please, and perhaps admit that there is no such thing as random but more controlled enviroment for starting, advanced and expert gamblers.

 

[trancemonkey]

I'll read it soon... but I guarantee there is nothing in here that will prove anything but to the most tin-foil hardware bunch

 

[Bloatgoat]

I find it very odd that when playing without bonus money upon your deposit, offers 'less action' then when you do accept a bonus and it's required wagering. There's action on all games all over the place untill you wagered a certain amount and it's over. Matches perfectly fine with bonus money value hidden in Javascript and that slots might be favored a bit better as long as your still wagering.

This proberly explains the odds on streamers as well. They dont play with money that does not contain a bonus amount added to it.

Edit: I had a friend, who always magically played his 10 to 25 euro paysafe, up to oblivion wageres like 6 grand, to finally lose it all again. He never withdrawled in all that time. He just played. That might explain his upward jumps all the time. I'm pretty sure it changed after hitting withdrawl.

Can i write my casino under the GDPR and see what they have on info about me?

 

[Halvor]

After that, same behaviour. No game in the casino at all would trigger. Not followed by weeks, several deposits. And yes i do agree if that there is mistakes or faults made, it will never be put public, because it would not be in the interest of the casino.

I feel some games are always within a 'checkerboard' of the upper ceiling on the win vs betsize. If you play long enough you'll understand the game better and better. I do believe that there is a AI working with or against you, based on your 'past'. Some bets are too obvious and the reward is too obvious as well. I deposit 50, at 9 out of 10 times i win an equal amount back with a upper ceiling (i.e 97% ~ on my initial deposit) and once i go bigger the amount seems to be more widen. But in almost all general cases, you hit a ceiling and head straight down. Nobody is going to deposit 50, withdrawl 49 if you know what i mean. Waste of transaction.


I'm glad that other people came open here, with their views. I was bashed by several users here who claimed everything was all random. Well slowly we're getting there that there is something like a hidden agenda by now, and that casino's are not what they seem they are anymore. @trancemonkey are you reading the last few posts in this thread? Enlighten on us please, and perhaps admit that there is no such thing as random but more controlled enviroment for starting, advanced and expert gamblers.

This is still not how it works, and I'm sorry but you are not able to predict winnings or when a game won't play.

If this was possible don't you think those of us I. The industry would have figured it out by now?

You do realise that games are vetted by third parties and the way you and very few others claim simply ain't possible in accordance with current laws and regulations. Further it would not even make sense for game providers and casinos to operate in such a manner.

As far as Agenda goes you are the one constantly insisting you somehow know something about games the rest don't know or somehow collectively have decided to hide. We're all waiting for even a shred of proof to support your ever growing tinfoil hat.

 

[Bloatgoat]

If i play a game at provider Y, why would it be needed in the first place to,

TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE

Have that in my hidden post value? Landbased casino's dont track this data. They do however can make an estimation on what you on avg spend on slots by looking at the points you make on your sessions while playing.

 

[Guntis]

I find it very odd that when playing without bonus money upon your deposit, offers 'less action' then when you do accept a bonus and it's required wagering. There's action on all games all over the place until you wagered a certain amount and it's over.

It is a random coincidence! Probably some people would say

 

[Guntis]

I find it very odd that when playing without bonus money upon your deposit, offers 'less action' then when you do accept a bonus and it's required wagering. There's action on all games all over the place untill you wagered a certain amount and it's over.

It is a random coincidence! Probably some people would say.

 

[trancemonkey]

Nobody would ever listen to me when i said that all the big data gathered among players would be somehow used against us eventually. Ah well. The best time of gambling has bin. The only focus is to keep players playing more and ultimately lose more, all for benefits for casino's and providers.

Really, seek landbased. They dont throw dirty tricks or tactics on their players. All i know is they buy machines, install them and that's it.

You realise most land based casino machines are also connected to central systems right? You really don't know anything, and yet when told, you ignore it and continue to spout rubbish as if its true.

No one collects data and uses it to rig games. You, and everyone else that claims rigged, have never shown one ounce of actual proof that all providers illegally work together. It's almost laughable to think this line of thread continues here on CM.

 

[Bloatgoat]

I never wrote rigged, did i? I'm pretty sure the casino can and will have hidden advantages against players. Please reread the post of @LoopsterAU in where such data thats being posted to a game provider is necessary for a 'random game'. And i'm not talking about just the players ID here.

 

[trancemonkey]

I never wrote rigged, did i? I'm pretty sure the casino can and will have hidden advantages against players. Please reread the post of @LoopsterAU in where such data thats being posted to a game provider is necessary for a 'random game'. And i'm not talking about just the players ID here.

None of that information is passed to the game. That's all information the casino uses.

Im not getting involved I'm such a pointless thread again. I KNOW there is no collusion (I sound like Trump!) and you THINK there is.

This whole thread proves nothing other than some variables a casino uses for itself.

 

[goatwack]

Let's petition for cookie-less slotting and see how casinos like them apples

 

[Luckyscouser45]

None of that information is passed to the game. That's all information the casino uses.

Im not getting involved I'm such a pointless thread again. I KNOW there is no collusion (I sound like Trump!) and you THINK there is.

This whole thread proves nothing other than some variables a casino uses for itself.

Sorry but I beg to differ but each to there own hey

 

[trancemonkey]

Sorry but I beg to differ but each to there own hey

You are entitled to beg to differ. You're wrong, but the good thing about opinions is you're allowed to be wrong

 

[trancemonkey]

Let's petition for cookie-less slotting and see how casinos like them apples

Mmmm... cookies

 

[goatwack]

 

[slot_zombie]

Illegally rig payouts based on player profiling? Nah, not a chance. Why bother, when you can:

... Silently lower 'adjustable' RTP ("oh but it's buried in the helpfiles")

... Silently piss around with game profiles (Rhino, Montezuma, Ivan & The Immortal King, Fruit Warp etc.) to make them play much worse than when released

... Release demo versions that play much better than the real money game


^this Industry chicanery is why the tin foil hat theorists have a field day....

 

[snorky510238]

View attachment 116839

Another victim floored after a session playing Btg games.

 

[colinsunderland]

I'll read it soon... but I guarantee there is nothing in here that will prove anything but to the most tin-foil hardware bunch

Can I ask you please, how often are games tested to check they are operating within stated RTP?
Is there a public register of all games that have been tested, with dates? Clearly some games have changed over the past few years, Montezuma, DoA, RR, IR etc, how do the public know they have been retested and if the RTP is the same?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Show me why this data is hidden among a game provided by a game provider, @trancemonkey

USERID
NAME
DEPOSIT_COUNT
BALANCE_REAL
BALANCE_BONUS
LAST_FAILED_DEPOSIT_VALUE
COUNTRY
BONUS_ABUSER_FLAG
PENDING_WITHDRAWAL
LAST_LOGIN
REGISTRATION_DATETIME
TOTAL_DEPOSITS_VALUE

A few i understand for perfect reasons; they are mandatory for the game. However, i disagree on a few things,

Deposit count, Last failed Deposit value, bonus abuser flag, pending withdrawl (??), Total Deposits Value.

I mean why is that mandatory for playing a game? You tell us why a casino wants to POST that data in a hidden javascript field towards the game provider.

 

[trancemonkey]

Can I ask you please, how often are games tested to check they are operating within stated RTP?
Is there a public register of all games that have been tested, with dates? Clearly some games have changed over the past few years, Montezuma, DoA, RR, IR etc, how do the public know they have been retested and if the RTP is the same?

I understand that it is every time you alter a game in any way it has to be tested. Even if that is changing a single graphic, because the game package checksum will have changed.

Also, all games must have RTP monitoring permanently to make sure they are operating within the correct boundaries. And operating under the lower boundaries must be reported to the regulator.

 

[trancemonkey]

Show me why this data is hidden among a game provided by a game provider, @trancemonkey



A few i understand for perfect reasons; they are mandatory for the game. However, i disagree on a few things,

Deposit count, Last failed Deposit value, bonus abuser flag, pending withdrawl (??), Total Deposits Value.

I mean why is that mandatory for playing a game? You tell us why a casino wants to POST that data in a hidden javascript field towards the game provider.

You're right, I'm also surprised that those are sent as part of the users session, but I can also guarantee that the games don't use any of that information. They can't. It really is that simple... games HAVE to be dumb to everything that is not necessary to produce a spin request. This is explicitly tested for, and I've posted links to the UKGC remote technical standards before (which are freely publicly available)

 

[slotter999]

I understand that it is every time you alter a game in any way it has to be tested. Even if that is changing a single graphic, because the game package checksum will have changed.

Also, all games must have RTP monitoring permanently to make sure they are operating within the correct boundaries. And operating under the lower boundaries must be reported to the regulator.

Do you happen to know what those boundaries are and the variables applied to those calculations i.e. stake, number of spins etc. As far as I can tell they are not publicly available.

 

[trancemonkey]

Do you happen to know what those boundaries are and the variables applied to those calculations i.e. stake, number of spins etc. As far as I can tell they are not publicly available.

Each game is different. It's based on what we call standard deviation (with a 95% confidence interval). So for example, after 5m games, how far away from the RTP would you expect the game to be. If it falls outside these boundaries then the provider would be asked to investigate and pull logs. If there was no obvious natural reason then it would be investigated further.

 

[slotter999]

Can I ask you please, how often are games tested to check they are operating within stated RTP?
Is there a public register of all games that have been tested, with dates? Clearly some games have changed over the past few years, Montezuma, DoA, RR, IR etc, how do the public know they have been retested and if the RTP is the same?

I've been having a private conversation about this very subject. The UKGC keep a record of all of these changes which are tracked through versioning. As far as I can tell it does RTP changes but not volatility (std deviation). The document I saw from around 2015 showed that all netents got bumped when they changed their RNG implementation which is common and shared across their platform. FOI into the UKGC to get them to reveal?

 

[trancemonkey]

I've been having a private conversation about this very subject. The UKGC keep a record of all of these changes which are tracked through versioning. As far as I can tell it does RTP changes but not volatility (std deviation). The document I saw from around 2015 showed that all netents got bumped when they changed their RNG implementation which is common and shared across their platform. FOI into the UKGC to get them to reveal?

Why does it bother you that much that providers alter maths sometimes?

 

[SpinUk]

I've been having a private conversation about this very subject. The UKGC keep a record of all of these changes which are tracked through versioning. As far as I can tell it does RTP changes but not volatility (std deviation). The document I saw from around 2015 showed that all netents got bumped when they changed their RNG implementation which is common and shared across their platform. FOI into the UKGC to get them to reveal?

Thats very interesting - case in point the html Dead or Alive re-work where everyone was saying the volatility had changed for the wildline yet the Netent rep swore blind “none of the maths had changed”

 

[Halvor]

I understand that it is every time you alter a game in any way it has to be tested. Even if that is changing a single graphic, because the game package checksum will have changed.

Also, all games must have RTP monitoring permanently to make sure they are operating within the correct boundaries. And operating under the lower boundaries must be reported to the regulator.

To the best of my knowledge this is correct. any change and the new version of the game will be retested.

As for the game checks. I have never seen a operator share full customer data with a provider. In most instances in the back offices things like name, deposit, any segmentation etc will simply be blank as its not shared with the provider.

Country, UserID(for the providers back office) on the other hand will obviously be stated. Just because theirs a check for certain values do not necessarily mean that these values are needed nor provided.

 

[slotter999]

Why does it bother you that much that providers alter maths sometimes?

It doesn't particularly bother me but I believe customers should have the right to be informed or be able to get that information from a publicly available source.

Imagine if you've been playing starburst for five years and suddenly it goes from its normal stddev to DOA2 stddev but remains on the same rtp - it's fundamentally a different product in my opinion.

The UKGC mandate that they are informed of this change. My suggestion is this should be extended to customers. I can't think of a good reason why that information should be withheld.

 

[Kroffe]

It doesn't particularly bother me but I believe customers should have the right to be informed or be able to get that information from a publicly available source.

Imagine if you've been playing starburst for five years and suddenly it goes from its normal stddev to DOA2 stddev but remains on the same rtp - it's fundamentally a different product in my opinion.

The UKGC mandate that they are informed of this change. My suggestion is this should be extended to customers. I can't think of a good reason why that information should be withheld.

Imagine your suprise when you hit a 100 000x win on Starburst tho.

 

[slotter999]

Imagine your suprise when you hit a 100 000x win on Starburst tho.

Probably still more likely that the mythical 500 x win

 

[Mr_Slot5]

It doesn't particularly bother me but I believe customers should have the right to be informed or be able to get that information from a publicly available source.

Imagine if you've been playing starburst for five years and suddenly it goes from its normal stddev to DOA2 stddev but remains on the same rtp - it's fundamentally a different product in my opinion.

The UKGC mandate that they are informed of this change. My suggestion is this should be extended to customers. I can't think of a good reason why that information should be withheld.

Agree. RTP is just one part of a game and Trance will know this more than anyone. I pick my slots based on volatility and game play, RTP is a secondary consideration.

To highlight the point, imagine a game that has 99% RTP....brilliant you think...until you realise that every £1 spin you play gives you 99p back.

 

[Bloatgoat]

RTP means nothing. I can play at a landbased on a 85% RTP machine and still hit big. It just depends on your luck at that moment.

But for online everyone seems to make claims that are taken from the sky. A online casino is just as expensive as a landbased one. Perhaps more knowing 50% of the budget usually goes to marketing. And that aint cheap online.

 

[Kroffe]

RTP means nothing. I can play at a landbased on a 85% RTP machine and still hit big. It just depends on your luck at that moment.

But for online everyone seems to make claims that are taken from the sky. A online casino is just as expensive as a landbased one. Perhaps more knowing 50% of the budget usually goes to marketing. And that aint cheap online.

Exactly.
The % chance you have of winning does not mean anything.
Thats why i can win the euro-lottery as easy as i win on a scratchie, just depends on my luck at the moment.

 

[johnnybagel]

I know that RTP means nothing in the way that you are talking about, it doesn't mean much literally, but it's still a decent indicator no? It's statistically accurate even if it won't be true for your session of however long you play.
Like, playing a game with an RTP of 99% over one that has an RTP of 90% will still mean you have more chance of winning spins in theory. Even if your luck on the day is a steaming pile of poo.

 

[goatwack]

RTP percentages obviously only matter over the long-term, playing the same favourite titles, as players tend to do. Provided the game in question can be trusted to have a good paytable. I could get a good hit on the first or 2000th spin.

I regard RTP as an indicator to how long I get to 'try' and get those good hits, it's simply a war off attrition with some slots. I wouldn't select a game purely on high RTP % though, only to see my balance fade steadily over 4 hours. Some slots are purely for the likes of wagering etc

But at the same time I see little point in seeing already- proven and 'established' games get butchered and nerfed into oblivion. Imagine playing Immortal Romance at 90% RTP, it'd be unrecognizable

 

[Jono777]

I hope I'm still here and able to post when the lid finally gets blown on this bunch of crooks

 

[snorky510238]

I hope I'm still here and able to post when the lid finally gets blown on this bunch of crooks

Can’t come quick enough mate. Makes me wonder if there is something in the pipeline we don’t know about and they are thinking let’s make hay before it’s over because something has changed dramatically of late.

 

[goatwack]

I hope I'm still here and able to post when the lid finally gets blown on this bunch of crooks

Hey, you were fine a couple of months ago. You didn't even say 'Rigged' once

oh sh*t I've said it

 

[slotter999]

Each game is different. It's based on what we call standard deviation (with a 95% confidence interval). So for example, after 5m games, how far away from the RTP would you expect the game to be. If it falls outside these boundaries then the provider would be asked to investigate and pull logs. If there was no obvious natural reason then it would be investigated further.

My bad - the UKGC do make some recommendations in regards to RTP monitoring although it is left to the licensee to ultimately implement based on their own requirements. Absolutely no chance of anything going wrong there then

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I wonder how many incidents have been reported since the monitoring requirement was introduced? I'm guessing there would be quite a few entities with a vested interest in keeping that quiet.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Everybody here is claiming the UK comission and stuff, but the world is larger then just UK comission or providers in general.

RTP is just a theoretical number. If i inject 200 and i win 2000 then it means my RTP was far beyond any normal session. And this often happens if your patience enough in the right casino or slot. To my experience, online slotting just holds you on tight to that little straw up to the point your being bombarded with near hits misses and all that shit, and still if you have like 8 out of 10 time a loss they would say oh yeah but our RTP is tested and fully fair blablabla.

Dont forget guys this all is crafted in very neath algorithms to cusson you while you lose. It's made in such way to make you hit tilt way more faster then any of you proberly experienced in a landbased casino. The only positive thing about a online casino is that it is zero to none effort to login and play. If your going to a landbased your usually looking on a small trip and so on.

To me streamers made a very bad impression on gambling in general. Win after win after win, everybody could fucking win is their message. Well it's not so easy, and the majority of gamblers will have a hard loss. Only a few will win something but thats usually not for long if that habbit is still being done. It's funny. I won 8k at a new casino i signed myself up to. I won nothing afterwards, waited weeks in between and varied my deposits.

Thats how they get you dude.

 

[Slottery]

They need to be able to provide all information about their monitoring process and results when audited like any other processes

 

[Mr_Slot5]

To me streamers made a very bad impression on gambling in general. Win after win after win, everybody could fucking win is their message. Well it's not so easy, and the majority of gamblers will have a hard loss. Only a few will win something but thats usually not for long if that habbit is still being done. It's funny. I won 8k at a new casino i signed myself up to. I won nothing afterwards, waited weeks in between and varied my deposits.

I know quite a few streamers who I can vouch for being 100% legit and some of these folded, ALL of them told me that it's virtually impossible to play every day due to losses and how far up the shitter they would end up. That's just on 60p to £2 bets.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I know quite a few streamers who I can vouch for being 100% legit and some of these folded, ALL of them told me that it's virtually impossible to play every day due to losses and how far up the shitter they would end up. That's just on 60p to £2 bets.

Except Billy

 

[Guntis]

My bad - the UKGC do make some recommendations in regards to RTP monitoring although it is left to the licensee to ultimately implement based on their own requirements. Absolutely no chance of anything going wrong there then

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I wonder how many incidents have been reported since the monitoring requirement was introduced? I'm guessing there would be quite a few entities with a vested interest in keeping that quiet.

The introductory part on their site says: "As of 1 September 2016 remote operators are required to monitor the performance of the games they offer. The core focus of this monitoring is to ensure random number generator (RNG) driven products are fair and achieving the designed return to player (RTP)".

Alright, but how does the UKGC know if they monitor them or not? I don't think anyone from the UKGC is playing Bonanza or whatever gets 1.5x bonus win and then says: hey guys listen, we got to check that X online casino out as it seems like one of their slots is not running in accordance with the designed RTP...

I think the more important thing for us players is to know – how often does a gaming provider put its games under the retesting process!

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Except Billy

He sure deserves the luck he gets on slots though. Great guy, great stream

 

[Bloatgoat]

I know quite a few streamers who I can vouch for being 100% legit and some of these folded, ALL of them told me that it's virtually impossible to play every day due to losses and how far up the shitter they would end up. That's just on 60p to £2 bets.

We know that there are prepared streamer accounts with slight better odds then the rest of the casual players. We know that some streamers get like 300 to even 500% bonus on top of their deposit. There's alot of dirty things going on with the streamers and one thing they do have in common (the majority, not the legitimate ones obviously) is to present a never ending winning world with gambling while the harsh reality is that 95% simply loses. And some even lose their family, wives, housings and all that because of a ongoing gambling addiction.

 

[slotter999]

The introductory part on their site says: "As of 1 September 2016 remote operators are required to monitor the performance of the games they offer. The core focus of this monitoring is to ensure random number generator (RNG) driven products are fair and achieving the designed return to player (RTP)".

Alright, but how does the UKGC know if they monitor them or not? I don't think anyone from the UKGC is playing Bonanza or whatever gets 1.5x bonus win and then says: hey guys listen, we got to check that X online casino out as it seems like one of their slots is not running in accordance with the designed RTP...

I think the more important thing for us players is to know – how often does a gaming provider put its games under the retesting process!

If by retesting you mean recertification then once a game is certified it remains certified unless they make a change which has the potential to alter the game. So changing the rng would require a change - updating the help file would not. They relaxed the rules slightly to accommodate minor changes which don't change anything regarding the maths of the game.

But the RTP monitoring requirement is something the licensee should be doing for the entirety of the game lifecycle.

How often casinos are audited is something I think only the UKGC could answer. There must be some risk mitigation due to the fact that a game which has performed correctly on one casino should perform correctly on another casino as the casino themselves do not host the game.

But how often they audit the servers hosting the games I do not know. They use simple checksums to determine if the game binaries match the recorded calculated during the testing phase. But given the hosting of these games is both decentralised and often software defined i.e. virtualisation it's very difficult to have a completely robust system to monitor changes to those types of systems. But I imagine a provider would be more incentivised than a regulator to have very strong controls in place because unauthorised tampering of those systems could have devastating effects - think replacing your favourite 96% game with a 2296% version. At which point you can also circle back to the topic of RTP monitoring - its meant to work both ways - under performing and over performing. A robust process should serve both.